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Red roundup: Could the Pac-12 expand to a sweet 16?

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  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 10:10 a.m.

    Yes. Its happening. We welcome Oklahoma Texas Oklahoma state ans Texas tech to the PAC 16. As much as I like the additions I also like the names I don't see.

  • Kosta Fesenko Chicken McNuggetville, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 10:10 a.m.

    I would be in favor of a pac-16 if the zipper division system is used. that way, you would be guaranteed a game in CA and a game in TX/OK every year. Not bad at all.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 10:18 a.m.

    I don't like adding the OK and TX schools as the final four to the PAC 16. I think geography would force the league into an East/West divisional structure that cut Utah out of some of our SoCal exposure and that is one of our biggest recruiting grounds. Just my take on it.

  • BYU Joe MISSION VIEJO, CA
    Sept. 6, 2011 10:25 a.m.

    If this happens and it probably will BYU is going to find itself outside of everything football. No chance ever to fight your way into a BCS game because the four 16 team supers will become the college football play-off that every one wants.

    We will forever be banished to the "NIT of football" and like little orphans stare through the windows at the luscious treats served to the rest of the BCS world. Yes, we will survive for a time as an independent with good football played throughout September but in time we will no longer be able to attract even the best LDS young men to play as they seek fame on the national stage.

    Suddenly our fate hangs in the hands of the Sooners and I fear the land they will grab lies west of Utah in California and the Pac 16. (We may have won the vast majority of the battles in every sport against the Utes but it seems we may have lost the war.)

    I say get on a plane and fly to Big 12 land and make this happen before it is to late.

  • Zoniezoobie Mesa, AZ
    Sept. 6, 2011 10:57 a.m.

    Rise Up NCAA and take back your game! The BCS and conference re-alignment gurus have all but eliminated many FBS teams. A playoff is needed which includes all conferences in the FBS division. Independent teams will be required to align with a conference. Every league game will count toward the playoff seedings. BCS opinion polls will no longer matter, as the champion will finally be determined on the field.

  • Madden Herriman, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 11:05 a.m.

    The timing worked out perfectly for Utah if it does happen. If OU and Texas pull the trigger last year, Utah is left out. As it is, Utah is locked in and whether the big changes happen or not, they have a great future. Congrats to them.

    I hope BYU finds a seat at the table somewhere. Independence is viable, but becomes less-so if super-conferences form. It would be a shame for a team that has finished regularly in the Top 25 to be left out, but it may well happen. If I were Holmoe, I'd push hard to keep the Big 12 together with BYU added...at worst, it implodes and they go back to independence. At best, they end up on the inside - a much safer place to be. Not sure BYU has the clout to get it done, but they ought to try...standing pat is a risky option.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 11:22 a.m.

    As sad as it is for BYU fans, one option that is on the table for the senior hierarchy that has been without question discussed from time to time is dropping football at BYU. If this "super-conference" trend reaches fruition quickly, and BYU is left out, there will be little incentive to continue the program, and many senior LDS Church leaders without question feel as though if athletics are continued at BYU it should only be along the lines of what the WCC offers. Just like at Rick's College 11 years ago as plans were unveiled to transform it to BYU-Idaho, the football program at BYU will likely be dropped VERY quickly and without further deliberations.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    Sept. 6, 2011 11:28 a.m.

    BYU Joe, As a Utah fan I'm with you, I would like to see BYU land in one of the super conferences if things go that direction.

    However, you might want to reexamine your statement "We may have won the vast majority of the battles in every sport against the Utes...". Really, every sport? The 2 sports that really matter in college athletics are football & basketball. Clearly Utah owns the all-time series in football. I believe the all-time series in hoops goes to BYU by a few games. And while the Utes are down in b-ball they have nine sweet 16's, four final 4's, 2 national championship appearances and one national championship. BYU doesn't come close.

    The truth... BYU has not owned Utah in either sport, nor has Utah owned BYU.

  • Kosta Fesenko Chicken McNuggetville, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 11:30 a.m.

    @madden

    false. we have discussed this ad nauseum and the only ones who still cling to your belief are the ones who refuse to accept facts as they are presented. not much we can do to help you if you choose to ignore facts.

  • Utehaterforlife Syracuse, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 11:54 a.m.

    No way Texas goes to the Pac, they will not share on equal terms with USC or anyone else.

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    Sept. 6, 2011 12:11 p.m.

    Does BYU get the ESPN money if they don't make a superconference?

  • Still Blue after all these years Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 12:25 p.m.

    If the 4 Big 12 teams go to the new Pac 16, BYU could be in trouble. It will depend on the other conferences jumping on their land grab, but I easily see that happening. The only mega conference in the west will be the Pac 16. There will not be a Big 12 as Mizzou and Kansas quickly jump ship. If BYU is left out of the "64", then it will be more difficult to recruit, more difficult to schedule, and with that, very possibly less fans. At that point, the money begins to dry up. I'd say that scenario is at least 50/50 right now, depending on what Texas wants to do. What we don't know is whether the Horns want to go west and whether the Pac12 will accept OU and OSU without Texas.

    If I were BYU, I'd be talking (begging) to Texas as much as I could. This week is proabably as good of week as any to speak with them. I believe BYU has a number of things to sell to the Big12, including immediate access on BYUtv to 60MM homes. But better move fast.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 12:29 p.m.

    If expansion happens the Utes won't have a prayer...they'll be in a division vs Texas AND Oklahoma. This does not bode well for the Utes.

    And I really doubt BYU cares much about all this discussion. They'll do just fine.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Sept. 6, 2011 12:44 p.m.

    Has Holmoe ever said HE has reached out to the PAC? Did we even TRY to get into this party?

    With Chris B. working for the PAC (talks like she does anyway), no wonder the Y doesn't stand a chance.

  • byronbca Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 1:23 p.m.

    I think it is going to happen, the divisions will get split into East West and what Utah loses in SoCal recruiting they will gain in Texas recruitment. Going to Texas every year and going to LA every other year is better than just going to LA every year.

    I'm just glad Utah got in when they did, I would hate to be on the outside looking in right now.

  • Go Big Blue!!! Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 1:23 p.m.

    It was the same hysteria last year. OU and UT are not going anywhere, certainly not out West to the PAC whatever.

  • Utes21 Salt Lake City, ut
    Sept. 6, 2011 1:26 p.m.

    Again the best decision byu could make is stay independent and see what happens. Creating this super conference seems like it may happen. Its already happening in the South with the SEC. I am not a fan of byu in anyway but they deserve the opportunity to join one of these conferences if it does occur. Lets say the Big Ten for example. They could add byu and notre dame and two more teams to make that another super conference. I dont know what will happpen but any exposure for the state with any of its school is a good thing.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 2:12 p.m.

    "as Mizzou and Kansas quickly jump ship. "

    Probably would go join Nebraska in the Big 10+2. Kansas State has a good b-ball program so they might want to jump there too. Not sure who the fourth one to get them to 16 would be... maybe Iowa State. Notre Dame is fine with independence and they're with the Big East for basketball so I think they stay as they are.

  • KamUte South Jordan, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 2:17 p.m.

    I like the PAC the way it is but as a newcomer, Utah has very little say in the matter. Happy to belong and will be very competetive. The future is very bright.

    BYU will land on their feet just fine. The worst thing that could happen is that the church drops football. The best thing that could happen is the BIG 9, 10 whatever, remains in tact and BYU gets an invite and the revenue and exposure is what BYU wants. What will happen is an unknown to everyone.

    If nothing happens, BYU stays where they are. Hard to schedule after the first three weeks but not impossible. I do know the lower revenue producing schools would love to continue scheduling BYU home games because it makes a payday for them.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 2:23 p.m.

    How would a schedule with 16 teams look anyway...
    Let's see, I assume 2 divisions of 8.
    Pacific division: (washingtons, oregons), (cal/stanfords, USC/UCLA)
    TBD-name division: (Arizonas, utah/colorado), (oklahomas, texas's)

    So you could play the 7 others in your division, one from each of the pairings in the other division and then one out of conference game. The parenthesis I use to indicate that one of those games out of division will be road while the other will be home. So Utah could have something like @washington vsoregon @cal vsUSC one year and then play those same teams the following year but reverse the home/away, then repeat for the other set of four schools. It would guarantee a trip to california every year (alternating between north and south), and the northwest, and it's not like texas isn't a big recruiting area. I could see this working... in theory. Not sure they'd like to have only one out of conference game, especially since they have rivalries like USC-Notre Dame or Utah-BYU which would eliminate the ability to schedule easier opponents and dramatically reduces odds of a Boise getting big opponents on the schedule.

  • CougarBlue Heber City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 2:50 p.m.

    BYU and Utah were instrumental in leaving the WAC and forming the MWC because of the 16 team conference. A 16 team conference adds too much to the travel costs. With 12 teams it amounts roughly to 8 1/3% of the revenues. With 16 teams that drops to 6.25%. That can be a significant amount.

    SLC BYU Fan and who are you quoting. Football is one of the two teams that bring significant notoriety to the Church, so why would they want to drop the program. I want you to back up your nonsense with facts and names of officials who are talking about this. This is a daydream of yours. Probably your stake president who is a Utah fan and thought the Church ought to drop Football.

    The NCAA can never gain control of this because the governing board is made up of the Presidents of the Universities. These Presidents already hi-jacked the NCAA and formed the BCS. They took 6 conferences, the majority, and rammed their plan down the other conferences throats. Until the NCAA become an independent body it will be the tail wagging the dog.

  • SGT_UTE Fort Hood, TX
    Sept. 6, 2011 3:22 p.m.

    What would you think of a Pac-16 with 4 divisions, North (Washingtons and Oregons), Coastal (California), Mountain (Arizonas, Utah and Colorado), and South (Oklahomas and Texas's)?
    Each team will play every other team from their own division and every team from one other division on a rotating basis and then space for 4 non-conference games.
    Cut the regular season by one game and form a Pac-16 Tournament? Top team from each division in a two-week playoff. Semi-finals would be Thanksgiving weekend with the championship game the same weekend as all other conference championship games.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 3:53 p.m.

    @SGT_UTE

    That was the second option I was thinking of though I'd tweak something. I think you should play your 3, then one home and one road game against each of the other 3 divisions. So that'll be 9 games. (example: utah gets washington stanford and texas at home and oregon state ucla and oklahoma state on the road).

    The part where that gets messy is what you noted with having to set up the mini-tournament which could work but I'm not sure that the conference wants to go that route (though the plan I outlined earlier requires 11 conference games and I don't think they want that either). I also think 12 games is an NCAA requirement so something would have to be done with your plan for the teams not in the tournament.

  • manutd Milford, CT
    Sept. 6, 2011 5:00 p.m.

    if it comes down to super conferences that makes 4 superconferences with 64 teams. aren't there 120 plus teams in division 1 football?

    so it isn't just BYU that is left out but boise state and the rest of the mwc, all of the wac, conference usa, big 12 leftovers, acc/big east leftovers. that's a lot of football teams on the outside looking in. i know money is the ultimate factor in these decisions but maybe all the "leftovers" can get some leverage on the ncaa to finally put an end to the BCS. or maybe not.

  • SpanishImmersed Mesa, AZ
    Sept. 6, 2011 5:07 p.m.

    Bid XII implosion is here. TAMU joins the SEC tomorrow. OU working out the deal with the PAC now. UT, TT, OSU, and OU to the PAC16.

    Mizzou to the SEC.

    KU & KSU to the ACC.

    ISU & Baylor to the Big East.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Sept. 6, 2011 5:08 p.m.

    This is all about money, and Texas and Oklahoma have asked for the PAC16 sales pitch. But if the PAC16 can't convince Texas and Oklahoma that they will get at least as much money as they are making now, this could end as nothing more than a bunch of hype like it did last year.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 5:20 p.m.

    A super conference team will have more competitiion for a BCS bowl bid than a small BCS conference team but without all the money. For that reason, I don't like a PAC-16.

    Texas started this mess with greed. But they are still a big enough school with a big enough media base to keep their BCS status in the new alligned Big 12. I don't think they will go to the PAC-12. However, Kansas and Missouri might join OK and OK State. So, the Big 12 will keep BCS status with Texas and find new teams to fill their roster that are willing to take Texas scraps.

    The PAC-12 got what they wanted in TV revenue and no longer want a Super Conference. They will strike only after it appears the SEC is going to sweet sixteen.

  • micawber Centerville, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 6:11 p.m.

    So if the Pac-16 forms an eastern and western division, to win the conference, the Utes would have to go 8-1 (or maybe 7-2) against:

    Colorado
    Texas Tech
    Oklahoma State
    Texas
    Oklahoma
    Arizona
    Arizona State
    two cross-over games

    Then, they would have to beat the winner of the western division in the championship game.

    That's not impossible, but in my opinion, it would be a very rare occurrence for the Utes to put together a team that could pull it off.

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    Sept. 6, 2011 6:16 p.m.

    @ Chris B | 10:10 a.m. Sept. 6, 2011

    My, my, my Chris....how quickly the recent 'have nots' look down the 'we're in the PAC-12 and you're not' noses.

    Translation: up until less than a few months ago your Utes were not in the PAC-12, either. Weren't the Utes supposed to be good sports and all that nasty "I hate the Utes" stuff from Max Hall was just filthy lies, right?

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 6:47 p.m.

    @ Mormon Ute | 10:18 a.m. Sept. 6, 2011

    Look it this way. The U would play in Norman or Austin every other yr.

    To compensate, they could divide the schedule w/ the originals as such...

    Yr 1 play USC & Ore St, Yr 2 play Cal & UW, Yr 3 play UCLA & Oregon, yr 4 play Wazzu and Stanford then start over again

  • B Logan, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 7:03 p.m.

    The 4 'Super Conferences' are the latest, best way for the BCS schools to solidify their monopoly. I happen to think BYU will get into something if that happens. But what about San Diego State? What about Air Force, Army, and Navy? What about Boise State? Why would any fair-minded college football fan (Chris B, you can stop reading here) want a system that excludes traditional powers as well as new powerhouses? What about the schools who have almost NO football tradition or very weak performance? Why is it that we would include Duke or Vanderbilt or Wake Forrest in the 4 Super conferences? What about UCONN (or most of the Big East for that matter?) Even CSU and Wyoming have had more success that a lot of the Big East schools. Why not 8 'Super Conferences'? THAT starts to look more like a tourney! Anyone disagree? Don't kill Cinderella!

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 7:07 p.m.

    re: manutd

    I think when they form the 4 16-team leagues the point would be then to get out of the NCAA and create their own association. One that doesn't include some of the absolutely absurd rules that the NCAA has.

    The NCAA has a rule now, where the school can only provide student-athletes with fruits, nuts, and bagels. Providing butter, jelly, or cream cheese is a minor violation. This is a current rule in the NCAA. Look this up on google news, I would post a link, but they don't allow link postings.

    I hope they get 4 16-team conferences soon, and the super conferences say goodbye to the NCAA.

  • gchris rock springs, wy
    Sept. 6, 2011 7:19 p.m.

    Utah fans, gleeful that Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State might join the PAC 12, should consider what their chances might be of ever winning a conference title and playing in a national championship game or another BCS bowl, for that matter. Utah's recent "flash in the pan" in football may seem tothe clueless a dynasty, but faced with playing and defeating Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Oregon, Washington, Stanford and the other ten schools in the PAC16 year in and year out would be daunting. Utah will sooner or later become the dregs of the PAC12(maybe even this year). How faithful will the Ute faithful be then?

  • B Logan, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 8:18 p.m.

    In addition: Is there a reason why Indiana Football should beat out Boise State or AFA? Is there a reason Northwestern should be a part of a 'super conference' and Fresno State gets left in the cold? Why would you want a Kansas in a 'super conference' (I get basketball) but not have a Nevada? The list goes on. This would be a BAD thing for college football unless there are more than 4 of these conferences. And Utah fans, adding OU and Texas to your schedule virtually guarantees that you out of the loop most years. All this does is either keeps the 'upstarts' like Boise State, TCU, Utah, and BYU either out of the picture, or in Utah's case fat and happy with money but no serious chance of winning a NC. (Really, you've done well at times, but you are not going to beat OU and Texas in recruiting.) I'm with LaVell Edwards on this. It ruins regional rivalries and it excludes a lot of teams who don't deserve to go the way of the dustbin.

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    Sept. 6, 2011 8:37 p.m.

    gchris, that flash in the pan Utah team as you describe it has a better overall winning percentage, a far better bowl record, and is up on your mid major team by 20 games. If going undefeated twice in the space of four years isn't impressive BYU's doing once back when a cassette Walkman was the cutting edge technology must be really lame? Keep hoping Utah will be the dregs of the PAC12 and get ready to be disappointed.

  • Keisels Beard Overton, NV
    Sept. 6, 2011 9:05 p.m.

    If the super conference garbage goes through, all the teams left on the outside need to file an antitrust lawsuit. Get serious about it. Stop talking and do it.

    I don't see how any court with any ethics at all could side with these people.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 9:45 p.m.

    Re:Keisels Beard

    If their are 4 super conferences and the teams in those conferences agree to leave the NCAA and create a different association, what could those left out legally do?

    Can a CFL team sue the NFL for not letting them in their league?

    NCAA could still have their champion, but the new association would just have its own playoff, and not have some of the stupid rules that the NCAA has.

  • crowntown1 Corona, CA
    Sept. 6, 2011 9:59 p.m.

    No way these schools are going??? UMM this the 2nd time they are discussing it and it will happen not will but when.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 10:03 p.m.

    @ pebbles

    For crying out loud, please tell me how you compare two undefeated seasons in the MWC cupcake league to a theoretical winning run in the PAC 14.2

    Let me start a list of words that somehow come close to defining this type of thinking. I'll let others chime in. Let's start with...

    Laughable

  • alternate Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 10:44 p.m.

    It is very doubtful that the 12 in the PAC want Texas and Okla to join up. They may care as much about Tech and OKState. The problem, even a more difficult road to a championship and big glory games. The SLC crowd is already bemoaning the current schedule in football and Bball. Think how tough it would be with the new guys added.

    There are also TV money issues with T and O that the PAC does not want to deal with. If they decided to make Utah but not Colo wait 2 years plus for money, they are not going to want to share with two teams who already has more than anyone else.

  • alternate Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 10:54 p.m.

    This is not a hate comment. Just stating a fact. I was there in 2004 cheering my head off Tempe but I fully understood that if Utah had played BYU's schedule that year, they would not have been undefeated. No USC, no ND in South Bend. Hardest game, Texas A&M, middle road big 12 that year. BYU even with it's "weaker than Utah team", could have beaten Pitt in that game in Tempe. So could have a couple other MWC teams.

    My point, not to degrade a wonderful, magic, year, but to point out how scheduling everyting. The PAC12 doesn't want to make scheduling impossible. Larry Scott may dream of glory, but not the guys in the trenches.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    Sept. 7, 2011 12:31 a.m.

    sammy,

    BYU has never played a cupcake schedule quite like Utah's 2008... beating two top 6 teams and four top 25 teams. Even Utah's 2004 squad beat a top 25 team. BYU isn't exactly the poster child for beating ranked teams and making it to BCS bowls. You do know that prior to Utah's inclusion in the PAC 12, they had more wins against BCS schools that any other non-AQ team right. But by all means keep spouting off with no facts to back it up.

  • Classless Ute Fan Magna, UT
    Sept. 7, 2011 12:47 a.m.

    Alternate,

    ***This is not a hate comment. Just stating a fact... but I fully understood that if Utah had played BYU's schedule that year, they would not have been undefeated***

    Actually, that's not fact but an opinion. I fail to see any games on BYU's schedule that Utah would have lost to... maybe USC, but that is debatable. But since the 2 teams never played, we'll never know who would have won.

    Really, your comment isn't really about the article. Yes, the PAC16 happen soon. The money issues that the WAC had with 16 teams won't be an issue for PAC16. The money issue with Oklahoma and Texas isn't an issue but a reason for them to join the conference. Oklahoma is upset that Washington St. is going to make more TV revenue than they are. That is one reason they want to change. Larry Scott has a clause to expand the TV deal should the conference expand. So, no lost revenue for PAC12 teams. I personally don't want the change to happen, but it looks certain to happen.