Comments about ‘Gay man severely beaten outside club says he was victim of hate crime’

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Published: Thursday, Sept. 1 2011 4:29 p.m. MDT

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krudd
Turlock, CA

PLEASE PLEASE....this poor man was hurt by bad people, but who says anything about them being Mormon. Last conference we were asked to not Bully treat gays badly. Why does this have to be about Mormons? It's about a man who had every right to be where he wanted to be and he was brutally attacked.
I live where there are a lot of German Baptist. They dress differently and are different....yet, I don't hear when a gay person is attacked " Oh it must be those German Baptist".
I bet it was just someone who has hatred in his heart for a lot of people. Don't make this into a Mormon/Gay thing unless you have proof. And if it is a Mormon....you know he will get into trouble with the law, and that happens, you get ex'd for something like this.

Ranch
HUNTSVILLE, UT

@windsor;

Classic "Blame the Victim". Tell me, do you advertise your own sexuality at all? Do you wear a wedding ring or have photos of your family on your desk? Think about it. Seriously. You probably advertise your "persuasion" a thousand times a day and don't even think about it. Why should GLBT people have to live in a closet?

@KM:

Desiring to join the "club" isn't an attack.

@Charles

Expert on sexual orientation are you? I did NOT choose to be gay. I simply AM.

RAB says:

"...the LDS Church fully tolerates and accepts homosexuals ...but does not want the government to stamp its official approval on it."

---

Frankly it is none of their business. The Constitution GUARANTEES Equal Protection to ALL American Citizens, REGARDLESS what ANY church thinks about the issue.

As many others have pointed out, why do people think it is okay to do something like this? A big part of the reason is that they've been taught that it is OKAY to dislike others. Constantly harping on how "evil" some people are creates an atmosphere of intolerance for those people and is subtle approval of actions like those for which caused this article.

runnerguy50
Virginia Beach, Va

No State needs special hate crime laws,however, if justice is served the person or people who beat this guy this badly should go to jail for a very long time. Its not that more laws are needed its the laws on the books that need to be enforced. Gay or Straight the victim in this case deserves justice, send whoever is sick enough to beat their fellow man up like this to jail for a very long time.

worf
Mcallen, TX

I wouldn't consider night clubs as safe. Especially at night.

smithda
Bountiful, UT

I hear so much blame. I am LDS, but nearly half my friends are not LDS. The truth is their is wrong on both sides. On my mission I was threatened multiple times by people, including those from the homosexual community with violence including one gay man threatening to stab me with a screw driver. What I took from it, that unfortunately he had a bad experience with either religion or the LDS church. I don't use that as a reason to hate him or any body else of another religion, view, gender, etc. Yes, there are LDS people who judge to harshly and tend to choose to not associate with with non-mormons. But I know just as many incidences both personal and through friends where non-mormons have been just as judgmental and sometimes hateful (as we see in some of the comments). The fact is that the church does preach against such violence, but the bigger truth is that as human beings we should not need a church or anyone else to teach us that it's ok to disagree, but it's not ok to openly and directly harm someone else in the process.

Dustyredcliffs
Saint George, UT

This is not exceptable These Thugs Need To Be In JAIL.

RAB
Bountiful, UT

@Baccus0902 and @Ranch

You both have it SO backwards. The LDS Church is not seeking legislation to push their religious values on gays. On the contrary, they are seeking to stop legislation from being created to override their religious values. They are not seeking legislation to punish LGTB people who hold marital ceremonies. They are not trying to force LBGT people into accepting LDS doctrine. They are seeking to stop legislation from establishing LGTB values as government--sanctioned values.

How can you say that the government SHOULD NOT BE allowed to make laws AGAINST behavior that a religious group views as unacceptable, and then say the government SHOULD BE allowed to make laws IN FAVOR OF behavior that the LGTB views as acceptable? This is not equality. It is attempting to favor a non-religious group's beliefs over many religious group's beliefs. Legalized gay marriage is IN FAVOR OF the behavior that consummates the gay marriage.

Ranch
HUNTSVILLE, UT

@RAB;

The "behavior" you see as "unacceptable" is NORMAL. Normal for both straight and gay people. LOVE.

I view organized religion as unacceptable and shouldn't have government acceptance. Should my views be made into law?

Seeking to enact legislation that denies equal protection to glbt families is in fact punishing glbt families.

What is really sad is that you can't see that and think that we have it backwards.

Allowing GLBT couples to marry, in NO WAY creates legislation to "override their religious values". Religious people are still allowed to NOT enter into a same sex marriage. All it does it provides the same legal protections to GLBT couples that straight couples already enjoy.

When religions preach that homosexuals are "abominations", "sinners", "destined for hell", etc. They automatically give their congregants permission to treat homosexuals badly. This is implicit in the message. It doesn't even have to be stated out loud.

When religions go out and campaign to restrict, or remove the liberties of homosexuals, they are treating homosexuals badly. I'm amazed that you don't see that.

And then we wonder how anyone can go out and bash some guys face into the gutter because he's gay?

Really?

ignoranceisbliss
Salt Lake City, UT

CLarkhippo
It is too bad not everyone can be like you, right? I made it through and it made me a stronger person. I was just trying to point out that there is a lot of intolerance in this state and it is a shame. Please do not presume that I go around placing blame where it does not belong because of my sad story. I have not actually shared what had happened to me as a child growing up and it felt good to get it out.

Clifton Palmer McLendon
Gilmer, Texas

Trying to designate anything as a "hate crime" is just a way for some crybaby group to get special treatment.

Maiming a person is wrong, whether he is a member of some so-called "disadvantaged group" or just some otherwise undistinguished individual.

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

Pagan,

You and other frequenters on here will know my views, so no need to recap. But with as much as I defend anything coming from the Church, or defend the idea of not blaming the church, etc. With that in mind, even I'll stand behind saying "So... why are we making this a 'Mormon' issue?".

Just fyi, I made a suggestion to the D.N. staff to have expandable comment reply sections where if someone says "Mormons..." on a page that many will think unrelated (like this one), we'd at least have the option to keep comments on that 'off topic' in it's own place. Some people seem to even think that Mormonism and French Mustard are related. This would allow for the vast majority to make productive comments, and those who let conversations wander to enjoy their side issues.

I got a reply that seemed receptive to the idea and a couple others I presented. Obviously things aren't changed overnight (as I wrote this in July) but hopefully we'll eventually see some improvements.

We've all probably gone off on our own little ideas that weren't entirely related- I just wanted to let you know about my suggestion.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Why would someone in utah 'choose' to be gay?

WhereIsTheLove
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

There's not much of a point of arguing with the LGBT community or the LDS community on matters such as this. But I'm glad the LDS community appear to be outraged too.

A story like this breaks my heart and I can only hope that this incident can lead to better understanding in the future and be a movement forward.

RAB
Bountiful, UT

@Ranch

Normality of behavior does not justify it. It may be normal for mobs to attack people they hate. Does that make it okay to you?

You ARE trying to make your views into law. You approve of homosexual behavior, so you want to change marriage so that we all must approve of it.

It is a tiresome lie that equal protection cannot be achieved unless we redefine marriage.

The government currently allows homosexual behavior to occur, but does not make any judgment as to whether it is wrong or not. That is how it should be. Government approval of gay marriage, however, inescapably makes the judgment that homosexual behavior IS OFFICIALLY CONDONED and APPROVED. It is a moral judgment that ignores and tramples on the views of millions of people.

Your absurd claim that religions implicitly approve of violence against sinners is a joke. Not only is homosexuality hardly even mentioned in most churches, but shouldnt they also be beating up gamblers, drinkers, addicts, and people who work on Sunday? Give it up.

Am I treating my kids badly when I don't let them have something that does not belong to them? Such is life.

ignoranceisbliss
Salt Lake City, UT

For the record, I am sorry to have offended anyone it was not my intention. I was puzzled at how the comments had more to do with religion than with what actually happened to Dane Hall. For some reason when I started to comment it brought back those personal memories and I just decided to go with it in fact I did not even think my comment would be approved because it had absolutely nothing to do with the article and that is what I get for my assumption. I wish I could take it back, but it is out there forever. I promise never to share anything personal again. I had no idea it would lead to so many personal attacks, I assumed from previous experience that the majority of people commenting were quite intelligent and mature, therefore, capable of remaining objective, for the most part. Was I wrong?

Hawkyo
SYRACUSE, UT

Pagan, while your list of failings of the legal system on behalf of gays is regrettable, I must ask, are you aware that far more crimes are perpetuated against non LGTB people don't you? As far as the legal system goes it's a joke for anyone gay or not, I'm surprised you even brought that up.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

re:Ignoranceisbliss
Please don't apologize! You absolutely were not wrong!
You didn't come across as attacking the LDS church, just relaying some real memories, which are important. Did anybody take offense at what you wrote? If they did, that is their issue, not yours. I think your experience can and should raise awareness. And, I think your experience is pertinent to this issue as well, because some LDS parents might think they are teaching their children moral values but what is coming across, instead, is that the only good people are Mormons, and that if someone isn't LDS, or is gay or whatever, we shouldn't "associate" with them. We can/should learn from each other.
Thank you.

Really???
Kearns, UT

"Straight community angered by gays attacking the institution of marriage and the family. They call it a hate crime."

Please tell me how comments like this and "... I find homosexuality morally wrong and unnatural, but I don't condone violence against those people..." do not incite some people to treat the gay community poorly? I think many of us who think was are loving and accepting need to take a long look at what we say and how we act toward others. Our attitudes do influence others.

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

ignoranceisbliss, I'd like to offer one bit of advice.

I once told someone, if you want intelligent critique for your work, go to the educated community. If you want rude, thoughtless, and disrespectful criticism, then put it on Youtube.

Behind anonymity people can be very vicious, whether your comments provoked it or not at all.

In a philosophy classroom I find a different paradigm. We all see each other as equal with different views. We establish first that any view is welcome, religious, not, gay, straight, etc. Then we discuss and disagree and agree.

Hiding behind masks makes disrespect a convenient choice. Instead, when we openly accept disagreement or other views, we create a respectful, safe, and productive environment.

I'd recommend this: BE personal, encourage it of others too! BUT, keep in mind that you'll only find civility in a situation where mutual respect has first been established. In the end we shouldn't hide our beliefs, but share them. When we are willing to share our views and listen to others, we build a productive future, a peaceful one. Hostility against another human being, simply because of their differing view lead to the violence against this man.

Hellooo
Salt Lake City, UT

First time that I have ever heard of fights and beatings occurring outside of bars. Guess, it has to be just a thing that happens outside of gay bars, or maybe going to bars just has a certain degree of risk involved and patrons probably should be aware of such. No need to talk about this being a "hate-crime" assault is enough so find the perpetrators who sound like cowards an let the law have its way.

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