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Comments about ‘Gay man severely beaten outside club says he was victim of hate crime’

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Published: Thursday, Sept. 1 2011 4:29 p.m. MDT

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@Charles
the greater outdoors, UT

---- There is that watered-down enough for you?

There was a horrible crime committed against this man. It's not to be condoned and those who did this should be caught and punished.

There is no such thing as a hate crime purported on homosexuals. A crime is a crime is a crime. The motivation behind the crime is always the same - to inflict harm on another person.

Homosexuality is nothing special or sacred. It's a chosen behavior that some people in society have decided to engage in.

Those who bring the LDS church into this debate are shallow, ignorant and unwittingly bigoted.

Those who complain about posts not getting through the sensitive censors at the Dnews all I can say is welcome to the party!

ClarkHippo
Tooele, UT

@DanO 11:01 - I am good friends with three LDS married couples who are bi-racial. Currently, one couple lives in Logan, one lives in Orem and one lives near the U of U campus. (yes, they're all college students, one the wife is black, the other two the husband is)

I've asked all three at different times if they have ever been shunned or ignored in their respective wards because of their mixed race relationship. Only the couple in Logan, where the wife is black, say its been an issue and its been minimal at that.

I really believe it depends on the ward and neighborhood. I would love to say all LDS people would embrace bi-racial couples, but sadly we're not there yet.

By the way, I may be LDS but I can't stand Glenn Beck.

@windsor 11:00

You said - "There CAN BE no fear if no one knows of your alternate lifestyle."

Sorry, but this is not a very good attitude. I have a gay co-worker who brings his partner to work related parties. Should we tell him to keep his partner at home?

No one should live in fear, period.

RAB
Bountiful, UT

@Mike W,
Respectfully, you are wrong. Attitudes about homosexuality do not lead to violence. Only attitudes about violence lead to violence. Intolerance, ignorance, lack of compassion, a propensity to be violent, and (usually) a mob mentality, are what lead to violence. The LDS Church neither tolerates nor approves of such violence.

Whether anyone chooses to believe it or not, the LDS Church fully tolerates and accepts homosexuals. They simply do not, and will not, APPROVE of homosexuality. The Church likewise wants government to accept and tolerate homosexuality, but does not want the government to stamp its official approval on it. Acceptance and tolerance are not the same as condoning or approving. Any LDS church members who show a lack of tolerance or acceptance of homosexuals are behaving in opposition to their own church's doctrines.

@Pagan,

You are merely proving that calling a crime a 'hate crime' makes no difference. Perpetrators of acts of violence should be severely punished regardless of what they were feeling at the time.

DeltaFoxtrot
West Valley, UT

What ever happened to Love Thy Neighbor?

Baccus0902
Leesburg, VA

@@Charles 11:50

You wrote:

"Those who bring the LDS church into this debate are shallow, ignorant and unwittingly bigoted"

Just as those people who believe that "Homosexuality is nothing special or sacred. It's a chosen behavior that some people in society have decided to engage in"

freddysheddy
Bountiful, UT

The fact that anyone thinks comment boards are a place for dialouge of this kind is ridiculous. Has anyone ever had their mind's changed by reading a comment on a board like this? I haven't. People who post--including me--are closed minded and unwilling to view other people's points of view. Comments are intended to get other people to think your way, and no one is ever convinced. If you really want to get people to listen and understand there needs to be more effort than typing for one minute to people whose names aren't known and whose identity, face and real life situation are unimportant. Get out and meet people. Both sides of the coin need this.

The greatest irony. No one is going to change because of my post. Why am I typing this... Because I am bored at work and have nothing else to do. So why not.

Alpine Blue
Alpine, UT

@ utahboni 7:38 am

After forty plus years of membership in the LDS Church to include many positions of leadership, I have yet to hear one word of rant or hate against the LBGT community. Not a single word! Some of you will point to our support of Prop 8 in California and call it hatred and bigotry. Nothing could be further from the truth-as Prop 8 did not declare any negative thing against gays, but was only a defense of traditional marriage.

For one, I am sick of being labeled a hater and a bigot-when it is absolutely not true. Speaking for myself and the overwhelming majority of my co-religionists, we have nothing but love and compassion for our LBGT brothers and sisters. Not an iota of hatred or bigotry.

Interestingly, it is the haters/bigots like so many on this board that are the ones making these accusations.

The crime against Mr. Hall in Salt Lake is a crime against humanity and we all condemn it. But, it similar to crimes that occur on a daily basis in almost every major city in the world. To try and make it a Mormon issue is disengenuous.

worf
Mcallen, TX

@Quayle:

Why do you relate a nightclub to the non-alcolic Mormon Church? Salt Lake City have many non-Mormons who have moved in from other states.

est061985
SOUTH JORDAN, UT

I can't believe how quickly people jump to Mormon bashing. Does the article say anything about the perpetrators being Mormon, or even Christian for that matter?
No reasonable person would ever think it is okay to do what was done to this guy. Just because the predominate religion in the state happens to be Mormon (less than 50%, of which, less than half are active), it does not mean they had anything to do with the actions of those men, and you are incredibly unreasonable to believe otherwise. Even if it was a group of Mormon Missionaries that jumped this guy, It would be the actions of "men" and would have absolutely nothing to do with the church. The LDS faith teaches nothing but love. You can't label someone a bigot just because they do not wholeheartedly embrace a certain lifestyle.

It is Pathetic that a comment like mine even has a need on a comment board for article about a tragedy such as this one.

catcrazed
Eagle Mountain, UT

This is totally uncalled for. I pray that those who think violence solves ANYTHING would think twice before doing anything so dispicable. God bless the young men who were attacked. Let's protect our neighbors, no matter what.

JasonH84
Salt Lake City, UT

For all you who choose to fight and argue against each other about religious beliefs, you disgust me! Read this article, look at the pictures, and direct your anger against those who put this kid's mouth against the curb. To spend time and comment space on anything other than trying to do something about this hate crime is absolutely silly. If we cannot agree that these kinds of crimes should not occur in our community for any reason, we are lost.

It's ok to be outraged, it's ok to be angry, it's ok to even be fearful, but let's get together on this and insist that it doesn't happen again instead of pointing fingers at institutions.

If anything, we should be outraged that this story is only getting out a week after the incident. Where were the news agencies on this? Why have the police so silent on this? Why have I been watching news stories about stray kittens instead of getting this as the leading story all week?

A_Zion_State_O'Mind
FAIR OAKS, CA

HATE CRIME LAW? ISN'T ASSULT MAYHEM LAWS ENOUGH HATE? I hope this man heals in all ways & I hope that those responsible are caught & prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law but NO HATE CRIME after all CRIME IS HATE. I live in California where Mormons have been treat almost as bad as this but is that a hate crime? The gays HATE the LDS Church & they vandelize our temples & meeting houses, they drive good people from their jobs because they contributed to Prop 8, how about HATE CRIME ENFORCEMENT THERE? See how there is no end to this "HATE CRIME LAW" movement? Live & let live.

BP
Salt Lake City, UT

How messed up do you have to be to curb someone?

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'...caught & prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law but NO HATE CRIME after all CRIME IS HATE.' - A_Zion_State_O'Mind | 1:12 p.m. Sept. 2, 2011

How many examples do I have to give?

Matthew Sheppard. Pistol whipped to death 10/22/09.
Initial charges? Burglary.
THEN murder.

Harvey Milk. Shot and killed on 11/27/78 By Daniel White.
Charges? Manslaughter.
Not murder.

The murder of Gwen Araujo. 10/03/02. After discovering Gwen was a man, she was killed by four men, I believe with, a can of food.
Initial case? Deadlock.
SECOND case? Murder.

David James (DJ) Bell. Attacked in his home in 2008, initial charges?
Kidnapping...to DJ Bell!
AFTER he spent $100,000 to get aquited...

assualt and 'incite to riot.'

Here are not one, two, but THREE examples where the legal system fails LGBT persons. If we are not projected...as the assailant, we at LEAST need two trials to get justice.

Hate crime exist's:

'A crime where the fed's can get involved (sic) the crimes committed are intended, not only, to hurt or murder an individual but to terrorize an entire community.' - Rachel Maddow.


So too, must it's punishement.

DN Subscriber
Cottonwood Heights, UT

So why is a criminal attack on a person worse if it is motivated by "hate" as opposed to greed, lust, stupidity, mistaken identity or some other factor?

None should be tolerated, and all punished equally.

Or, are some people "more eqaul than others?"

Hawkyo
SYRACUSE, UT

Jeffry Wilbur, are you seriously implying that Mormons did this to this poor young man? You do realize that SL County is hovering around 50% LDS population right, so that alone gives you only a 50/50 chance. Of that 50% you can take out the old, young, and women, from both sides as this was a crime done by young adult males. Add in the fact that most mormons don't spend a lot of time in bars and clubs (i realize some do, but most don't) and that brings the numbers down even more. Then, my favorite, "jack mormons" or mormons in name only who don't live by church standards or teachings would also account for some of that 50% LDS population. It doesn't take a degree in Stats to see that it's quite possible that the sick individuals who did this heinous act were not practicing LDS. Quit being bigoted.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

Oh, my God.

This is my final post, so I'm sure the barrage of questions will follow however...

no one is saying an LDS person did this. I am regarded as a Mormon 'hater' by many on these boards, and I have never once made that claim or implication.

Go ahead, quote me.

Now, instead of focusing on the CRIME, people are tripping over themselves trying to place, blame.

The motivations could be any number of things. I am NOT trying to place blame.

I AM however, trying to point out, that this man, was ATTACKED. His jaw and cheek bone, broken.

And he is now missing six teeth.

The MOTIVATION behind this case, will be revealed in the dueness of time.

But majority of the post's on this page say one thing:

"It wasn't a Mormon."

And not:

'How can we help the victim?'

Focus, on the victim.

Don't try to BE, the victim.

I hope you all have a good weekend. And will some of you start CARING about your fellow human beings, please.

Ranch
HUNTSVILLE, UT

Quayle | 7:05 p.m. Sept. 1, 2011

Here is what the Mormon church teaches, so we're all clear:

1. The purpose of our life is to experience a very broad range of circumstances, urges, emotions, events, thoughts, and desires so that we can learn to distinguish between the bitter and the sweet.

2. Sin is essentially doing those things that don't lead to the greatest personal growth as a person. Therefore, more than anything, sin is delay.

3. But every single person is going to willfully sin. There isn't one person, not even an Apostle (as they will well tell you) that hasn't sinned.

4. And sin can be erased by the Lord in an instance, so it isn't an indelible trait.

I don't see anything in the above that separates out or denigrates gays or any person that sins.

===

The presumptive assumption of your entire comment, Quayle, is that Gays "sin" being gay and doing what leads to their own greatest personal growth. (Love the sinner, not the sin).

As long as that is the underlying presumption, the bias we're trying to eliminate will continue.

There is absolutely Nothing wrong with GLBT living a GLBT life.

Screwdriver
Casa Grande, AZ

Quote KM "Straight community angered by gays attacking the institution of marriage and the family. They call it a hate crime. "

Are the mean gays breaking into your house and making your argue with your wife? Did they make you get a divorce?

Amazing talent you have to deflect responsibility for your own house.

Wastintime
Los Angeles, CA

Consideration of underlying motives have long been taken into account in our system of justice.

Chief Justice William Rehnquist wrote that increasing or decreasing a sentence based on the assailant's motive is common in the law, and although a person's abstract beliefs may not be taken into consideration in sentencing, racial animus or other prejudice can be considered if they are relevant aggravating factors. Furthermore, Justice Rehnquist wrote, enhanced penalties are appropriate for bias-inspired conduct because it "is thought to inflict greater individual and societal harm," such as the greater possibility for retaliatory violence, emotional damage to the victim and community unrest.

Re:AlpineBlue
Sorry, but I disagree. The prop 8 campaign was anything BUT loving, accepting or positive. As a life-long LDS hetero member I was shocked by the negativity employed in the campaign, hugely disappointed and deeply saddened that our church would be involved in such a campaign. Though I fully expected the Church to take a stance I was astounded at the negativity and demonization the campaign used.

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