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Comments about ‘Gay man severely beaten outside club says he was victim of hate crime’

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Published: Thursday, Sept. 1 2011 4:29 p.m. MDT

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JSB
Sugar City, ID

r.e. isrred | 7:39 p.m. Sept. 1, 2011: I wonder how you can assume that because I read and believe the Bible is inspired, that I "DO believe in such violence." How do you know what I get out of the Bible when I prayerfully read it? Because of errors in transcription and translation, what we have in the Bible is not a perfect nor complete record so we must "pick and choose" carefully and prayerfully. Some Biblical messages are clearer than others (i.e. Gods condemnation of sexual perversion). When it comes to ancient scripture, we have just a few pieces of a much larger puzzle and those pieces must be carefully and prayerfully examined. There is much to be learned from the Bible, but to assume that I hate gays because I believe the Bible is inspired is to assume that you know what I know better than I know what I know.

Kdee
SLC, UT

@ utahboni: You need to go back and re-read my post - we are on the same side.

@ ClarkHippo: That is one of the benefits of becoming ever more civilized - these types of things become less and less acceptable. Every time an attack like this occurs and is publicized, the acceptability of such attacks is reduced. The brutality strikes a cord of shame in many of us and causes us to vow to fight against it.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

First and foremost, what happened to this young man and the others cited in the story is reprehensible and needs to stop. The neanderthals (apologies to the TV commercial cave men) who did this need to be locked up for a loooong time.

but

Jeffrey Wilbur
It's the very reason the very first step in propaganda is to paint your enemy as being as evil as possible, to reduce them to a subhuman categorization. You mean the way the dems and MSM talks about the tea party?

Lagamorph,
Where do you get the idea these acts were perpetrated by practicing Christians? Its impossible.

Semper Fidelis,
There are many who need no excuse to take pot-shots at the LDS church.

TheJournalist
I would suspect the story was not reported previously because the DN knew the response would be major Mormon bashing. There are those who will continue to bash the church no matter what.

KM
Cedar Hills, UT

Straight community angered by gays attacking the institution of marriage and the family. They call it a hate crime.

4601
Salt Lake City, UT

Jeffrey Wilbur | 6:17 p.m. Sept. 1, 2011
This horrible act has nothing to do with religion, but rather lack thereof. Some people take this incident as an excuse to rail on the LDS Church, another form of hate crime.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@windsor

"It seemed that there was so much less of this type of violence back in a time when those of a different persuasion didn't insist on others knowing of that persuasion.

That seems like a sensible answer: Don't broadcast and insist that others know of and/or accept your alternate lifestyle. "

So your answer is for gay people to live their lives in fear? that's not much of a solution...

Utes Fan
Salt Lake City, UT

DeseretNews: what is wrong with the following comments? There are people on this board loosely connecting the LDS Church with the perpetrators of this crime. I am only trying to point out that fallacy of those comments.

It really irritates me when we take the time out of busy schedules to comment on the DN articles, and because of inconsistent comment filtering it is entirely unpredictable what goes through and what doesn't. With that, I am DONE commenting on the DN if comment filtering is not more consistent! YOUR loss, NOT mine!!!!!!

-----------------

Where is the evidence that the perpetrators of this horrible crime are LDS or are influenced by LDS teachings?

They could be anti-Mormons for all we know.

In other words: we don't know. Stop stereo-typing the perpetrators. They are losers and deserve to be locked up for a long time, regardless of what religion they have (or don't have).

Clarissa
Layton, UT

This is a horrible crime. I find it disgusting and hope the people who did this are identified and punished. isrred said that Jesus doesn't mention homosexually in the Bible. He does talk about sexual sin:

Matthew 15:18-19:

18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@lost in DC
"Where do you get the idea these acts were perpetrated by practicing Christians? Its impossible."

Now we don't know what the religious status of these four are largely because we don't even know who they are yet so I won't make assumptions, but to say it's impossible is just wrong. That's a No True Scotsman logical fallacy.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@4601
"This horrible act has nothing to do with religion, but rather lack thereof."

New Hampshire has the lowest crime rates in America while having the highest rates of people being atheist. For you to imply that atheism causes violence is bigoted.

TRUTH
Salt Lake City, UT

@VANKA.....what I see is hate and intolerance on the part of gays for religious people.....ie Garff, Kiss-ins and the comments of gays in this thread...

LVIS
Salt Lake City, UT

anka | 7:52 a.m. Sept. 2, 2011
Provo, UT
You can see in these comments the latent hostility and hatred of gays by religious people. Denying there is a connection is not only naive, but disingenuous.

No, you are incorrect. Such a statement borders on arrogant. And is most certainly disingenuous. What I do see, however, is a continuation of an ongoing prejudice against 'the major religion in the state' by those crying out for tolerance and respect. Please identify ANY comment by ANY authority of the LDS church that promotes anything but tolerance and acceptance of the LGBT community. Perhaps part of the problem, anka, is that you are predisposed to seeing 'latent hostility and hatred of gays' around every corner. Just because I may be religious, and am not gay, does not mean I 'hate' gays. I don't drink, either, but I don't hate people who do.

On the other hand
Spanish Fork, UT

@isrred, you can of course make whatever claims you want, but doing so won't make your misunderstandings doctrine. Jesus' mission was not to spell out every jot and tittle of the law but to help people understand what was important: loving God (including following His commandments) and loving others. Nowhere did Christ justify or authorize homosexuality, and subsequent New Testament authors continued to condemn it. But Christ preached very clearly against violence and ill will toward others.

John20000
Cedar Hills, UT

@isrred: I believe you are mislead to think Jesus said nothing about homosexuality (please keep in mind that the word homosexual was first used in 1880's.)

Matt 19:3-9 Jesus commands man to leave his father and mother and cleave unto a wife.

Titus 2:4-12 Jesus (through Paul) commands women to love their husbands and children.

1 Corinthians 7:2-5 Jesus (through Paul) commands man to have a wife and woman to have a husband.

Ephesians 5:28 Jesus (through Paul) commands men to love their wives.

Also, if you categorize homosexuality into the scriptural word "fornication", there are many places in the New Testament where Jesus commands us not to fornicate.

Bebyebe
UUU, UT

"Why is everybody bashing Mormons over this incident? It was a bunch of straight-edgers who assaulted this man, not a bunch of Mormons."

Because the Mormon church has a well documented, public, organized, well-funded dislike of and discrimination against gays (Prop 8).

John20000
Cedar Hills, UT

Love the sinner, despise sin.

Ms.W
South Jordan, UT

"If you're going off of Jesus' new higher law, what did Jesus EVER say about homosexuality? Nothing. Nada."

Jesus Christ spoke volumes about homosexuality from the beginning when he created Adam and Eve , not Adam and Steve.

Red Smith
American Fork, UT

All crime is hate based.

If you get hit in head with a bat because of your skin color that is hate based.

If you get hit in the head with a bat because you have money, that is hate based.

If you get hit in the head with a bat because you have a different point of view, that is hate based.

Assault and battery is hate based.

Love does not generate crime. Hate does. It would be nice if folks would stop the hate, but that is a one person by one person issue.

Laws can't stop hate no more than they can stop love.

We don't need more laws, we need better people.

Castlepath
South Jordan, UT

@atl134

I find it interesting some of the people in here are so tolerant of religion when it includes acceptance of gays but so critical and ready to shut down religion, Mormonism in particular, at all turns.

When you remove and persecute religion, the true bloodbaths of history begin. The crusades, inquisition and witch hunts, are no where in scale when compared to the crimes of the Godless; Stalin, Polpot, Hitler, Mao.

Baccus0902
Leesburg, VA

The LDS church is not guiltier than other religions in promoting a negative image of homosexuality. This horrible and sad case is not unique to Utah, on the contrary, it is repeated across the United States and many parts of the world.

Do this statement excuses the LDS church? No, it does not.

Comments like the ones by Quayle, Windsor, Voice of Reason, not only tend to mitigate the fault of the attacker, but shift blame to the victim. They remind me of Saul of Tarsus, who participated in the stoning of Stephen believing he was doing God's work. Fortunately for him Christ had mercy and he became Saint Paul.

If you believe homosexuality is a sin. By all means, do not practice it. But don't judge and condemn others.

If we see unjust harm of any kind inflicted upon other. As Christians or ethical beings, we have the obligation to intervene and prevent that violent act.

I wonder, how the love of two people of the same sex causes any harm to others?

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