Blue roundup: Does OU control fate of Big 12?


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  • CoachWinWA POULSBO, WA
    Sept. 5, 2011 10:47 p.m.

    TCU, BYU, Boise State, Air Force, Houston, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor is good enough to keep the BIG 12 an AQ school. Not the best BCS conference, but not the worst either. And finally, all those deserving schools punch their ticket to the BCS. Get on board, or get left out. It is the only chance most of those schools will ever get.

  • Target Provo, Utah
    Sept. 3, 2011 11:41 a.m.

    In Stitches etc.

    Why are you wasting your time arguing with someone who has nothing more going on in his/her life than trolling the boards of a school that is no longer in his/her conference -- someone who is trying vainly to convince everyone that a school which accepts just about anyone is somehow superior to a school that is extremely selective?! Selective Private University vs. easy to get into State School. Give me a break!

    The fact that this person has nothing better to do speaks volumes!

  • In Stitches Provo, Utah
    Sept. 3, 2011 9:50 a.m.

    Dear John

    I think percentage of students who go on to get ____ post graduate degree is NOT an opinion but rather a pretty obvious fact. You take the overall number of undergraduates from each University and then you figure out the percentage who go on to whichever postgraduate program. The one with the highest percentage gets ranked #1 and so forth. Simple math is not an opinion.

  • CougarForever Holladay, Utah
    Sept. 3, 2011 2:01 a.m.

    As others have noted, using the most commonly applied metrics, BYU scores well and also achieves its overall mission nearly to perfection. However, even as a loyal (some would say borderline fanatic) BYU grad I still have to acknowledge that there are real limitations to the Provo experience that I did not appreciate until I did my graduate work at two "name-brand" universities. The real-life relevance of the competitive comparisons of BYU to School X in the comments posted here can be questioned and one needs to be a bit careful about some of the ammunition used. A case in point is the matter of Paul Boyer, a BYU grad (and Provo native, no less) who won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry. One would think that at the very least a chemistry lab somewhere on campus would bear his name. Unfortunately, Boyer became an outspoken atheist "activist" who vehemently criticized both the Church and BYU. So, in making the case for our greatness it's better to leave Boyer out of the discussion.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:25 p.m.

    Sheesh, you cougies claim I don't read your posts? I do, and I even understand the words. On the other hand . . .


    You hypothesized "if you and I are both applying to a grad program" yet you trot out some selective "ranking" to "prove" your conclusion that you'd get in but not me. Since you don't know and cannot include all the relevant facts in your hypothesis, your conclusion is known as an "opinion."


    I used the word "laureate." Mario Capecchi is Utah's Nobel laureate because he won his Nobel Prize while researching at the U. Boyer is one of UCLA's Nobel laureates. You and BYU are still 0-fer Nobel.

  • There's always room for Jello Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 5:26 p.m.

    "BYU is ranked #10 nationally for the number of students who go on to earn PhDs, #1 nationally for students who go on to dental school, #6 nationally for students who go on to law school, and #10 nationally for students who go on to medical school."

    Hmmm ... looks to me that colincard's statement has been proven -- by an intelligent Ute no less! Imagine that. What else ya got, John? This is getting entertaining AND informative. I knew BYU was a great school, but I never knew just how great!

  • In Stitches Provo, Utah
    Sept. 2, 2011 5:13 p.m.


    From a post from a fellow Ute: "BYU is ranked #10 nationally for the number of students who go on to earn PhDs, #1 nationally for students who go on to dental school, #6 nationally for students who go on to law school, and #10 nationally for students who go on to medical school."

    That, dear John, is what makes my statement a "provable fact." Ta-da!

  • In Stitches Provo, Utah
    Sept. 2, 2011 5:10 p.m.


    "Absent from your lists were the number of LDS Church presidents, when educated on their own nickel, who got their education at BYU. That's why in knowledgeable LDS circles--outside of Happy Valley--the U is known as 'The School of the Prophets.'"
    Hmmm... Is that how academic prowess is measured by the world? Does the Academic Ranking of World Universities have that as part of their criteria?! Weird! I guess that's what got you that Pac-12 invite.

    BTW, among the alumni are several General Authorities, including two Church presidents: Ezra Taft Benson '26, and Thomas S. Monson '74), six apostles (Neil L. Andersen, D. Todd Christofferson '69, David A. Bednar '76, Jeffrey R. Holland '65 & '66, Dallin H. Oaks '54, and Reed Smoot 1876), and two General Relief Society Presidents: Julie B. Beck '73 and Belle Spafford '20.

  • There's always room for Jello Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 5:04 p.m.


    Wow. You must be part of the Ute debate team. Great rebuttal. You sure showed him with all his inconvenient facts!

  • Katiebugg Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 5:02 p.m.


    In Stitches covered that for me: "The University also graduated Nobel Prize winner Paul D. Boyer".

    Maybe you should slow down and read more carefully.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 5:00 p.m.

    " . . .who would be most likely to get in."


    Like many cougies, you mistake your narrow opinion with provable fact.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 4:57 p.m.

    @ Collin Card | 4:47 p.m. Sept. 2, 2011
    Provo, Utah

    You first need to graduate from high school.

    Good luck with that.

  • man of few words Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 4:56 p.m.


    I repeat:

    BYU is ranked #10 nationally for the number of students who go on to earn PhDs, #1 nationally for students who go on to dental school, #6 nationally for students who go on to law school, and #10 nationally for students who go on to medical school.

    I guess postgraduate programs don't subscribe to the Academic Ranking of World Universities?

    Don't get me wrong. I am a Utah grad and fan, but I don't allow that to delude me into thinking that the school south of us is anything but a great school. The fact is, BYU is a whole lot harder to get into, most students are bilingual and they have some very prominent post-graduate programs. When you feel the need to belittle them -- you just come off looking insecure.

  • Collin Card Provo, Utah
    Sept. 2, 2011 4:47 p.m.


    Nice how Utes have to shop around to find rankings that suite them -- even when they have to ignore those that don't!

    I don't know why you think this is some competition between schools. The article had nothing to do with that. But I think several folks have answered your question quite thoroughly.

    I guess the question is -- if you and I are both applying to a grad program (you with an Undergrad degree from the U and me with the same degree from the Y), who would be most likely to get in. ME! (I guess grad schools don't place as much faith in the Academic Ranking of World Universities as you do).

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 4:47 p.m.


    I'm sorry, I missed the number of Nobel Prize laureates from your litany.


    Absent from your lists were the number of LDS Church presidents, when educated on their own nickel, who got their education at BYU. That's why in knowledgeable LDS circles--outside of Happy Valley--the U is known as "The School of the Prophets."

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 4:38 p.m.

    man of few:

    The US News ranking is not the only one. Its founder said he knew his formula was right because the same 3 schools always landed on top. When one of their statisticians changed the formula to be a little more scientific, and CalTech came out on top, she was let go and the formula went back to the old way (read: money talks).

    A more reliable ranking is the Academic Ranking of World Universities. For 2010 you will find Utah at #47 in the US and #82 in the world. BYU? #112-137 nationally and #300-400 in the world--right in there with Nevada-Reno, Wayne State and Rhode Island.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 4:34 p.m.

    @ Where's Stockton ??? | 6:23 p.m. Sept. 1, 2011
    Bowling Green, OH


  • In Stitches Provo, Utah
    Sept. 2, 2011 4:13 p.m.

    Hey John there's more:

    A number of BYU alumni have found success in professional sports, representing the University in 7 MLB World Series, 5 NBA Finals, and 25 NFL Super Bowls.

    In baseball, BYU alumni include All-Stars Rick Aguilera '83, Wally Joyner '84, and Jack Morris '76.

    Professional basketball players include three-time NBA Finals champion Danny Ainge '81, 1952 NBA Rookie of the Year and 4-time NBA All-Star Mel Hutchins '51, and three-time Olympic medalist Kreimir Ćosić '73.

    BYU also claims notable professional football players including Super Bowl MVP Steve Young '84 & '96, Heisman Trophy winner Ty Detmer '90, and two-time Super Bowl winner Jim McMahon.

    In golf, BYU alumni include two major championship winners: Johnny Miller ('69) at the 1973 U.S. Open and 1976 British Open and Mike Weir ('92) at the 2003 Masters.

    Isn't Wikipedia grand?

  • In Stitches Provo, Utah
    Sept. 2, 2011 4:12 p.m.


    There's more:

    In literature and journalism, BYU has produced several best-selling authors, including Orson Scott Card '75, Brandon Sanderson '00 & '05, and Stephenie Meyer '95.

    Other media personalities include award-winning ESPN sportscaster and former Miss America Sharlene Wells Hawkes '86 and former co-host of CBS's The Early Show Jane Clayson Johnson '90.

    In entertainment and television, BYU is represented by Jon Heder '02 (best known for his role as Napoleon Dynamite), Golden Globe-nominated Aaron Eckhart '94, animator and filmmaker Don Bluth '54, Jeopardy! all-time champion Ken Jennings '00,and Richard Dutcher, the "Father of Mormon Cinema."

    In the music industry BYU is represented by former American Idol contestant Carmen Rasmusen and Mormon Tabernacle Choir director Mack Wilberg.

  • In Stitches Provo, Utah
    Sept. 2, 2011 4:09 p.m.


    How about this:

    Over 21 BYU graduates have served in the U.S. Senate and U.S. House of Representatives.

    Cabinet members of American presidents include former Secretary of Agriculture to President Dwight D. Eisenhower, Ezra Taft Benson '26 and Rex E. Lee '60, who was United States Solicitor General under President Ronald Reagan. Mitt Romney, former Governor of Massachusetts and 2008 Republican Presidential Candidate, class of 1971.

    BYU alumni in academia include former Dean of the Harvard Business School Kim B. Clark and Michael K. Young '73, current President of The University of Utah.

    The University also graduated Nobel Prize winner Paul D. Boyer, as well as Philo Farnsworth (inventor of the electronic television) and Harvey Fletcher (inventor of the hearing aid).

    Three of BYU's twelve presidents were alumni of the University. Additionally, alumni of BYU who have served as business leaders include Citigroup CFO Gary Crittenden '76, former Dell CEO Kevin Rollins '84, Deseret Book CEO Sheri L. Dew, and Matthew K. McCauley, CEO of children's clothing company Gymboree.

  • Katiebugg Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 4:05 p.m.

    I'll raise you Philo T. Farnsworth, Harvey Fletcher, H. Tracy Hall and Joseph Price.

    I'll also raise you 10 Rhodes Scholars, four Gates Scholars in the last six years, and in the last decade, 41 Fulbright scholars and 3 Jack Kent Cooke scholars.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Sept. 2, 2011 4:00 p.m.

    If Big 12 members have a problem with the Longhorn Network. What makes people think that BYU and Notre Dame would be welcome in the conference with their own TV contracts?

  • man of few words Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 3:59 p.m.


    For 2010, the U.S. News & World Report ranked BYU as #71 in the country overall.

    The Princeton Review has ranked BYU the best value for college in 2007.

    BYU is also ranked #19 in the U.S. News and World Report's "Great Schools, Great Prices" lineup.

    BYU is ranked #10 nationally for the number of students who go on to earn PhDs, #1 nationally for students who go on to dental school, #6 nationally for students who go on to law school, and #10 nationally for students who go on to medical school.

    BYU is designated as a research university with high research activity by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching.

    In 2009, the university's Marriott School of Management received a #5 ranking by BusinessWeek for its undergraduate programs,and its MBA program was ranked by several sources: #22 ranking by BusinessWeek, #16 by Forbes, and #29 by U.S. News & World Report.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 3:52 p.m.


    Good one. But I'll see your Whittingham reference and raise you LaVell Edwards, with his Masters degree from the U.

  • Katiebugg Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 3:11 p.m.


    We can also brag about a current Ute coach...

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:53 a.m.

    Where's Stockton:

    Every time somebody else (this time from the Midwest) questions the Y's academic credentials you just can't help yourself with the cold fusion canard, can you? As I mentioned the last time you went there, at least the U is trying. Thousands of artificial heart recipients would heartily agree. A recent Nobel Prize for medicine is further evidence of the effort.

    About all the Y can crow about is the production of good game show contestants and unemployed pirate football coaches. And oh yeah, Napoleon Dynamite. Thanks, the world is a much better place.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 11:02 a.m.

    If OU and Texas leave, the Big 12 won't retain its AQ status. The MWC almost earned AQ status based on the contributions of Utah and TCU, but those teams are gone.

    WhatsInItForMe: You don't understand the TV issue. For one, Oklahoma IS starting their own network. The issue of broadcast high school sports on university stations was squashed by the NCAA.

    Now the concern in the Big 12 is that Texas wants to have at least 2 games broadcast exclusively on The Longhorn Network. If you're Kansas or Iowa State and are hoping for some ESPN/Fox exposure, you might suddenly find yourself ONLY shown on the TLN. Want to know how that feels? You may soon. ESPN is willing to help their partner Texas by moving the BYU-Texas game exclusively to the TLN.

    Anyone who thinks the Big 12 could be the league of independent TV networks is foolish. A league needs exposure on the major networks. If Texas only broadcasts their games, and OU does, and BYU does... nobody is going to see the games. University networks are a fad destined to fade away. BYU's will make it, because its really a church station.

  • NW Coug Provo, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 10:08 a.m.

    I checked on US news College Rankings just now. BYU, if a member of the Big 12, would be the #2 academic institution, behind Texas.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:34 a.m.

    If Texas' TLN is causing such consternation among the Big XII members, isn't that league effectively dead?

    Texas A&M is the first to leave over this. Oklahoma can't be too far behind.

    Some might say, "Well, Oklahoma, start your OWN network."

    But, maybe they don't think their "national" following is good enough to do that. OR, maybe they're waiting to see how Texas' "national following" actually pans out in the TLN getting picked up outside of Texas, which so far it hasn't.

    It could be that adding both Notre Dame and BYU into the Big XII with THEIR own ubiquitous TV coverage would just add more fuel to the jealousy fire.

    I doubt Texas will go to the Pac-12 because that league won't allow them the advantage TLN offers to Texas, and Texas won't give it up so easily.

    The next little while is really going to be interesting to see where the chips fall.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:23 a.m.

    Kansas and Kansas State must be cringing at what's happening to the Big XII, because they'll have nowhere to go. Doubt the Big Ten wants them, but might have to take them to get to 16.

    If the Big XII loses Oklahoma and Texas (to the Pac-12), BYU would be better served remaining independent. A depleted Big XII won't retain its BCS status with a bunch of mid-majors added into it.

    Besides, it'll be 16-team superconferences that would come out of the Pac-12 raiding the Big XII, making it the death of that league.

    The only chance the Big XII has of surviving is to expand to 12 immediately and eventually to 14 with BCS adds, like from the Big East, not a bunch of mid-major promotions.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 2, 2011 9:05 a.m.

    If Oklahoma and Texas join the PAC 16, Utah's chances of ever going to the Rose Bowl will be ZERO.

    There's no way Utah will ever have the resources and prestige to out-recruit USC, Oklahoma, and Texas, let alone Oregon, Stanford, and Oklahoma State.

    Like Air Force trying to finish ahead of TCU, BYU, and Utah in the same year, Utah would have to have an outstanding year just to finish in the top 3 of the PAC 16.

    Sept. 2, 2011 8:24 a.m.

    The author of this article is obviously trying to make BYU look like it is a Ohio State type school, where anybody can get in. BYU is one of the hardest schools to get in in the western United States. Utah's graduate school? Most of those graduate students come from BYU. This writer is obviously uneducated about BYU. The big least (big east) will die before the BIG 12. If the BIG 12 wants to they can steal a lot of those programs.

  • Starfarer Mesa, AZ
    Sept. 2, 2011 7:29 a.m.


    "It's about what is produced. How does the institution make the world a better place through research and expanding human academia."

    I will put what BYU brings to the world over what u bring to the world any day of the week and twice on Sunday. You perception is not reality as proved by other posts.

    Hank Pym

    "What about variety of programs? Outside of Law, Business, & the M R S degree; what is byu notorious for?"

    First, I don't think u really want to know. The way you framed the question you aren't looking for an answer so much as you are looking to slam BYU. But, I will tell you...

    There are numerous reports over the last three decades about how large hiring firms, big five accounting firms, CIA, FBI, State Department and many others want BYU graduates because of their honor, work ethic, maturity, and commitment to excellence. It would appear that real world entities prefer that over academia.

    People who use the argument that BYU's academics are somehow lacking are actually revealing their religious bigotry.

    Is BYU accredited by the highest levels of accreditation or not? If they are the argument is mute.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Sept. 2, 2011 5:48 a.m.

    Combine comments from Whatsinitforme and Cougarforever and we get pretty close to what might happen.

    Big 12 has a legit shot at getting Notre Dame, Pitt and BYU. It needs all three to keep the current conference intact. Arkansas might also be a possibility if ND commits. The definately need three teams, not one, to add stability.

    If they don't get all three - UT, TT, OU and OSU are off to the PAC16. Lucky for U - if this were last year, TAMU would be included and U would be excluded.

    Big 12 will survive by adding and replacing to get back to 12. The new conference could look like this - Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor, Houston, Air Force, Boise State, Hawaii (in football), and of course BYU.

    Possibilities to fill the other three spots would be Missouri (SEC won't take them, Big10 might if they try to move to 16 but they didn't want them last year), Tulsa, TCU, SMU, SDSU, UTEP, Southern Mississippi or Colorado State.

    This conference would be better than Big East at football and on par with ACC.

  • man of few words Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 11:45 p.m.

    Juggy & Hank Pym

    Well there was that article the other day about how BYU also produces more undergrads who go on to get Masters and Phds than even most Ivy Leagues....

  • riddlemethis Clearfield, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 11:36 p.m.

    The only thing the Huffington Post knows less about than politics is sports.

  • CougarForever Holladay, Utah
    Sept. 1, 2011 11:21 p.m.

    I am about 90% certain that BYU has received or is about to receive an invitation to join the Big-12.
    I am about 80% certain that BYU will accept the invitation.
    I am 100% convinced that BYU should accept such an offer -- this experiment with independence simply has too many potential pitfalls in the longterm.

    Unfortunately, I think that Oklahoma and Texas (together with tag-alongs Oklahoma State and Texas Tech) are destined for a PAC-16. And it seems likely that Missouri could join either the Big-10 or the SEC. The Big-12 needs to pad itself quickly so it has at least 8 remaining schools when this occurs. I wouldn't be surprised if AFA, Boise State, SMU, Houston and even Tulsa also aren't being seriously considered (Pittsburgh and Louisville won't join even if asked). A "Big-12" with BYU, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor, AFA, Boise State, SMU, Houston and possibly Colorado State and/or Tulsa clearly would be a step down from the new expanded super-conferences but, in my opinion, membership in such a conference would be preferable to the uncertainties of independence.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Sept. 1, 2011 10:55 p.m.

    Don't be at all surprised to see Notre Dame, Pitt, and BYU get concurrent invites to the Big XII to bring it back to 12 teams after Texas A&M leaves. Both Notre Dame & BYU could keep their TV contracts (ala TLN), making it possible for ND to come along.

    I doubt any one of those schools would accept a solo invite to a sinking ship. But, they might accept as a group, knowing it'd solidify the conference's future. Beebe seems to know that, what with his trapsing around the country to BYU, et al.

    The Big XII conference won't have stability until it gets back to 12 by adding schools withs some cache. Different levels of cache for the teams I mentioned, sure, but still, enough to save the conference from imploding.

    The Pac-12, in moving to a 16-team league, is the only conference that can deplete the Big XII into oblivion. So, the Big XII's only way to save itself is to keep the Pac-12 at bay is by growing to 12 immediately. 10 members is no longer viable.

    So, just asking BYU isn't enough, and BYU would be dumb to accept alone.

  • Eugene2 MONTPELIER, ID
    Sept. 1, 2011 10:01 p.m.

    Stay independent where you are in control of your own destiny as long as ESPN will stick with you! With ESPN as your partner, it won't take long if you win to gain respect and be offered a similar BCS deal as Notre Dame.

    With all the big teams being sanctioned or player suspensions, BCS now only means Bad Criminal School and who wants to be the champion of that?

  • JapanCougar Apo, AP
    Sept. 1, 2011 8:23 p.m.

    It's ridiculous slander, and I know I shouldn't be drawn into conversations with mud-slingers, but it is important for the objective reader to realize that BYU's focus/mission/emphasis and its strength is on a high-quality undergraduate education. Its resources have been spent on this.

    Check out wikipedia's site about BYU and this becomes evident.

    BYU produces more dentists than any other school in the US.

    Also BYU sends more students into PhD programs than all but 4 other schools in the US. (see the recent DesNews article)

    As a physician who did undergrad at BYU and Med School at Georgetown, I can assure you that BYU undergraduates are sought-after around the US.

    I doubt that Hank Pym or Juggy have been in a graduate school in Utah, or they'd realize that many of the Utes graduate programs rely heavily on BYU graduates (certainly their med-school has).

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 7:14 p.m.

    re: Juggy & Wiley Old School | 4:08 p.m. Sept. 1, 2011

    "It's about what is produced. How does the institution make the world a better place through research and expanding human academia. BYU just doesn't do that. The main thing BYU produces is marriages."


    What about variety of programs? Outside of Law, Business, & the M R S degree; what is byu notorious for?

  • che loco Springville, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 7:13 p.m.

    I don't give much credence to this commentary. It's speculation & is no more informative than what I can come up with in my own mind. Any writer who goes to the "older, more mature players" card is clearly not qualified to make a comment on the Y. Those "older, more mature players" were plentiful on the 7-6 BYU team last year. Where were all the complaints then? Until there's something definite by either the Big 12 or BYU this commenter should probably keep quiet.

  • CaliforniaCougar Lake Elsinore, CA
    Sept. 1, 2011 6:54 p.m.

    If Notre Dame is in, then BYU should go. That will hold the conference together. Otherwise ... STAY PUT!! The conference appears on its way to implosion.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    Sept. 1, 2011 6:23 p.m.

    Sorry but I can't let this one go...and neither should any true blue blooded Cougar fan. So here it is once more... but this time a classification of "impeccable" is being wrongfully used catagorically as an undermining pitch so far from the truth of BYU academics that it's almost criminal... the author of this article about Oklahoma must really think he got a solid jab in...and a couple of the posters on here also obviously seem to think so also. If impeccability in research academics is such a lacking thing at BYU then what does the academic world think of a University who supposedly has oversight over all members of thier research departments to ensure the accuracy and validity of the research they oversee before they announce stunning results and heralding triumphs that later fizzle on the fires of review. I can think of none more stunning and so embarassing than the totally inane heralding of achieved Cold Fusion at one of the campus's in Utah. Is that the kind of impeccability that the author is talking about. If it is then he's right. You don't find that at BYU. Try Miami...or Ohio State.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    Sept. 1, 2011 6:17 p.m.

    Funny, linking to a Huffington Post article on sports. I don't consider them a credible source on anything. I just roll my eyes with the nutty stuff they publish.

  • BigBrother Murray, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 5:22 p.m.

    Pittsburgh will join Big-12.

    BYU will stay as Indy-WACy

  • SoCalUtahFan Utesville, CA
    Sept. 1, 2011 5:18 p.m.

    ...Let's face it. The big12 is BYUs last chance at a BCS conference. If they miss out, they better get used to playing teams like Eatern Washington...

    It now makes sense that BYU will be invitted to Big-12.
    If OU leaves, Texas will also leave. Pitts will remain in Big-East.

    That leaves Big-12 as Big-mid-major.
    So, BYU will fit nicely.

    Sept. 1, 2011 4:53 p.m.

    Let's face it. The big12 is BYUs last chance at a BCS conference. If they miss out, they better get used to playing teams like Eatern Washington.

    Sept. 1, 2011 4:20 p.m.

    BYU is a good fit for independence, anyway. How many schools can actually say that. They probably should have gone indy 5 years ago rather than waiting for the MWC to get an AQ or a better TV situation.

    OU to the pac makes a lot of sense to me. Texas should follow along and keep a semblance of the Longhorn network on the Texas regional Pac-16 network. Oklahoma State is an okay addition but TTech doesn't fit the PAC mold at all. Too bad the big boys have to bring their ugly little brothers along.

  • Wiley Old School RIC, VA
    Sept. 1, 2011 4:08 p.m.


    Hmmmmm... you think maybe TECHnical programs?

    Sept. 1, 2011 3:57 p.m.

    BYU lacks "an impeccable academic pedigree" - That's a nice way to say it.

    It's not about inputs: ACT scores, entrance GPA's, etc. In other words a school's admissions requirements are not a measure of its academic quality.

    It's about what is produced. How does the institution make the world a better place through research and expanding human academia. BYU just doesn't do that. The main thing BYU produces is marriages.

  • DC Alexandria, VA
    Sept. 1, 2011 3:52 p.m.

    Also, Big 12 and ESPN are in talks with Notre Dame. I'm not saying anything will come of it - probably not - but the Big 12 isn't giving up. And I really don't believe OU would want to leave THe Big 12, where it is a big fish in a big but shrinking pond, to be USC's second fiddle. I'm not sure that Texas is all that interested in leaving it's fat tv contract for the Pac 12 either.

  • DC Alexandria, VA
    Sept. 1, 2011 3:50 p.m.

    Their measurement expects kids to graduate within 5 years. Because of the mission, most students start school, leave for 2 years, then finish school 3 - 4 years later. 6-7 years instead of 4 or 5. Because of this, many schools don't accept that BYU is a true university.

    It's a convenient scapegoat for schools not wanting to accept BYU's mission. I don't mean agree with it, just accept BYU students for what they are and do.

    And enough of the older men argument. It's not like these missionaries are working out every day. If anything, missions have ruined more players than helped. It does help with their maturity, but how is it cheating to have more mature players? And how do you realistically measure that?

    Also, Utah should be disqualified as well since half of their players served missions.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 3:42 p.m.

    Yes, Oklahoma absolutely controls the fate of the Big 12.

    People say "Add BYU so the league can get more money". OU doesn't need more money. They demand stability. They thought they had it, until it turns out Texas A&M was telling a lie.

    It's an interesting stand off. BYU won't commit the Big 12 unless it's stable. OU won't stay unless all members are committed.

  • Everest American Fork, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 3:32 p.m.

    BYU lacks "an impeccable academic pedigree?" Since when? BYU has higher ACT and GPA scores for its recruits than most Ivy League schools now. Various majors like business, accounting, and engineering are ranked among the country's best. Is it the lack of certain PhD programs? Not sure how that relates to an athletic conference. On which academic metrics does BYU trail, say, Texas Tech?

    Sept. 1, 2011 2:45 p.m.

    I do have some concerns about the super conference idea. However, Ive read Wittingham, Scott and others seeing this as setting that new landscape for future college football. I would rather be part of a conference who is out front with this than not. Unfortunately for schools not already in a BCS conference, their future looks bleak. Thank God this didn't happen a year ago.

    Sept. 1, 2011 2:36 p.m.

    God must be a Ute!

  • UU702 Layton, UT
    Sept. 1, 2011 2:01 p.m.

    Yes...as far as today goes.

    Last Summer Texas was in control, this summer Texas A&M pushed it to the brink, on Monday byu looked like it could set terms such as no sunday play...their own tv channel...guarantees from Texas and Oklahoma to stay put. Today Oklahoma can make big12 expansion moot. Tomorrow??? Crazy days.

    Today I prefer PAC12 to PAC16, but I could warm up to the idea.

    GO UTES!!!