@ Chicagoborn & Eddie would go:The APR has 2 criteria:1.)
Staying academically eligible. 2.) Staying enrolled in an institution.Since a good number of people at BYU go on missions, they do NOT stay
enrolled at BYU continually for 4-5 years. Therefore, BYU's APR suffers. Not
because of academic deficiencies but because of religious integrity.FYI: 1.) BYU's incoming Freshman average a 3.8 GPA.2.) Utah's
incoming Freshman average a 3.5 GPA.
truecoug1,One thing you're also missing is that many games will be
on ESPN and FSN which are already available on most basic cable and sattelite
packages. We won't know for sure which games until closer to the season next
year, but the numbers being thrown around indicate most of the conference games
will be on one of those two networks. The rest of the games will be on the PAC
12 network and I don't think it is going to be as hard to find as you think. It
may be part of a subscription deal, but I'm sure it will be agressively
advertised.Lastly, the Utes don't have the same need for nationwide
exposure BYU does. Certainly we want as many fans as possible to see the games
and it helps when players families can tune in, but most of our fan base is in
the PAC 12 footprint and most of our recruits come from there as well. BYU has
fans all over the country who are fans for no other reason than they are members
of the Church. BYU sports are also a missionary tool for the Church, hence the
expense of offering BYUtv to everyone.
@MormonUte "What is there to be down about?"For you,
nothing at all, since you live in Utah. And absolutely, Utah's exposure will be
greater than it was in 'the mtn' (I don't think there's any way it could
possibly be worse, I am SO glad both BYU and Utah are out of there).My point in the previous posts, along with the friendly smack talk, was to
point out that the Mr. Thompson of this article will have a hard time finding
the Utes on TV since he's not in the PAC 12 footprint.But who knows?
Things may change.Go Cougars!
StGoSLC,Stop!! You're embarrassing yourself.hohum,What I said to you and Duckhunter had nothing to do with StGoSLC's
comments. I even quoted you directly and my quote was not something you quoted
from another person. The U bears no responsibility for what he did in Jr. High
and High School. Now that they know what he did, I trust they will take
appropriate measures to make sure he knows dishonesty isn't tolerated at the U.
Coach Wittingham is well known for his integrity and I know he will make sure
this is handled appropriately.
truecoug1,Yes, I wish every university could have a great benefactor
like the LDS Church to offer it's TV station free to every carrier in the
country, but that just isn't going to happen. However, as a Ute fan I am very
pleased to be part of the conference that will soon have the biggest and best
media package in college football. So no ouch for me. Next season our media
coverage will be light years ahead of where it was in the MWC. What is there to
be down about?
I still stand by what I said. He was trying to make the best possible future for
himself by using football as avenue for his education. I'm not saying I'm
encouraging anyone to circumvent any laws, but I certainly understand his reason
for doing what it took to keep playing. He can't play in any other leagues or
anything because that would jeopardize his amateurism. If he plays, who is he
hurting? Probably only the parents of his opponents who are upset that their
kids are not as good of football players. Of course the school board has to take
action when they see it so I'm not upset about any of that, only that he has to
be publicly embarrassed by the ordeal, and criticized by people who don't know
him.And the whole talk that recruiting services should downgrade his
caliber rating because of his age is nonsensical. A players' rating is based on
their skills and attributes as a player, whether they're a 16 year old junior in
high school or a 26 year old JUCO transfer.
Mormon ute: The following is the quote from StGoSLC on his post."Even if he did knowingly break some pathetic rule, that hardly speaks on
behalf of his character." Really??Rules are for everyone and
whether you agree or not they are to be obeyed. Don't like them? change them
rather than ignoring. Where do you draw the line on what you do and don't obey.
Just waht does it say about someone's character?This is from a u
poster and not me. I refered to this in my remarks and nothing more.
Duckhunter,Here's a quote from hohum's comment, "What are you
teaching this young man and how is the appearance to Utah for allowing it. The
pac12 has enough problems already and I am sure the conference is already on the
U to clear this up on their end."Sure sounds like hohum's
saying Utah allowed it and the PAC 12 needs to make sure it doesn't happen
again.As far as the scholarship goes, my understanding is most of
the requirements are academic. As long as you meet the minimum grades and
aren't unduly influenced by a booster, your in. I'm sure that's an
oversimplification, but it's the gist of it.
@MormonUteOne little side-note...BYUTv is available in 60 million
homes nationwide and comes standard on EVERY basic cable package, without having
to pay anything extra for it.Ouch...:)Go
@MormonUteI should have clarified. The PAC 12 NATIONAL Network will
be available in 40 million homes nationwide, but ONLY comes standard on basic
cable packages in states with the PAC 12 footprint. Any other state has to pay
extra to get the PAC 12 National network on an upper tier in their cable
company.This from the LA Times: "Scott said the regional
networks such as the Southern California channel dedicated to USC and UCLA
content would be carried on expanded basic cable and that the national network
will probably be found on digital basic cable in Pac-12 markets and on digital
sports tiers that require extra fees in the rest of the country."So like I said, unless Mr. Thompson's willing to upgrade his TV deal, or
something changes so that the PAC 12 respects the Utes enough to put them on
ESPN...I don't think Mr Thompson is going to have an easy time of watching U
play.So maybe you should take a leaf out of your own book and
"if you want to comment on such things, you should make sure you really
understand them" before you start running your mouth.:)
@mormon uteI haven't read anybody blaming the university of utah for
any of this. All we have said is we don't believe this kid didn't know his own
age. No one has said anything about him not being allowed to go to utah, play
football, or anything else. We all simply think he is lying about not knowing
his age and yes that is a character issue.My guess is officials at
utah are looking into it as we speak but I am sure as long as he checks
academically he will get his scholarship.That kind of says something
about the requirements to get an athletic scholarship however.
Oh man, I hate to say this, but the quacking boy and I agree on something. Who
knows how this kid would do if he was playing against kids his age. probably a
marginal prospect. Hopefully, he gets things figured out.
hohum,One place you can't put any blame for this is the University
of Utah. The University had no knowledge of his high school inelligibility
until it was questioned by his high school coach. They would have no way of
knowing and as long as his academic and athletic credentials are in order with
NCAA rules, there is no bad reflection on the Ute's program or the PAC 12. The
U didn't 'allow' anything and now are simply helping this guy straighten things
out academically so he can be ready for Spring football.
Utah 95 I read that article, it was great. Never realized Graves was at the U
for nearly 20 years. Think of how many other great people he must have had an
impact on in the University of Utah community
@hohumYou are correct about this. Based on his age he should be
entering his Jr. year, of college! On the high school football field and at the
camps he was competing against players that are litterally 3 years younger than
he is. If a kid that will be a senior this year has an April or May birthday
they are almost 3 years younger than this guy. They have been 17 for 2 or 3
months and this guy turns 20 in 2 weeks. It's no wonder he is graded
out so high as he is 2-3 years older than everyone he was playing against.
I have nothing against the young man. I do believe that it is unlikely that he
did not know how old he was. He lied(knowlingly?) on more than one occassion.
What bothers me is some of the comments regarding his responsibility to be
honest. "Knowingly breaking some pathetic rule" is ok?. What are you
teaching this young man and how is the appearance to Utah for allowing it. The
pac12 has enough problems already and I am sure the conference is already on the
U to clear this up on their end.The next question is this. The kid
is a three or four star recruit, that means so much to many. How much does the
age difference make when comparing him to other high school kids, thar are
anywhere from one to four years younger. Before you question the four years,
there was a kid in Pine View that was 15 years old and offered. What kind of
recruit will he be when he is almost 20. Maybe they should remove a star or two
because of the facts.I hope he does good, gets his life in order. He
What is being overlooked here is that this kid isn't just 1 year older than all
other high school seniors, he is actually 2 years older. He is about to turn 20,
not 19. My birthday is in October and I was one of the oldest kids in my class.
I turned 18 at the beginning of my senior year. Obviously this kid
wasn't just held back once, he was held back twice. Either that or he started a
year late and then was held back on top of that.There are plenty of
kids these days that have been started a year late, or even held back a year, by
their parents, but those kids would only be turning 19, not 20. The fact this
kid thought he was only 18 is what's ridiculous here. The fact that
the documents had been altered is plenty of proof that this was done purposely.
If you want to give the kid a pass you have to be willing to believe he never
knew that he is actually 2 years older than every other kid in his grade. I
don't buy it and you wouldn't either if he wasnt a utah commit.
Are these the same Cougar fans who were all about forgiveness with a certain BYU
athelete who messed up?
Duckhunter,I prefer to be more trusting and it doesn't matter to me
if it is a BYU situation or a Ute. Anyone who has followed my comments knows
that. Rather than delighting in kicking people when they're down and pointing
the finger and laughing at the person who slipped on the bannana peal. I prefer
to be the person who puts out a hand to help that person get back up.
truecoug1,You are obviously not aware of the true facts regarding
the PAC 12 national network. It is nationwide, but is only available right now
in 40 million homes because the sattelite deals haven't been finalized. By the
time the deal actually takes effect in 2012 sattelite will be in place and it
will have at least 60 million homes. You are confusing the PAC 12 national
network with the regional networks that will complement it and carry the Olympic
sports in 6 regions throughout the PAC 12 geographical area. If you want to
comment on such things, you should make sure you really understand them.
Ted H.I simply said we don't know the facts. I'm trying to give the
kid the benefit of the doubt. His parents who most likely started this back in
6th grade. He may have figured it out at some point, but how many teenagers have
the courage to defy their parents and come out with something like this? He was
put in a tough spot by a decision his parents made 7 or 8 years ago. I just hope
the example his parents set in doing this doesn't start a pattern for him.
@Eddie Would GoExactly. You beat me to it. That still probably won't be
enough to convince BYU fans about APR scores. Instead of acknowledging that the
score is low, they blame the system. Blame the officials. Blame the system. Same
thing. I don't buy this whole about it's easy to get good grades at the U. Most
of the people saying that have probably never even taken a class at the U. In
fact, there was an article about the percentage of A's given out at universities
and the U was giving out A's at a lower percent than BYU.
MiP, I understand what you're saying, but it also extends to a lot of other
areas like social status, religious beliefs, race and nationality. I have a lot
of friends I grew up with who go to the school down south who have blown me away
a few times on some opinions they have developed being in such a controlled
environment where so many people are so much alike. Not saying it's anything
that's taught there, but with so much less diversity, you become less aware of
the circumstances others are in. Of course I take my jabs when I can, but I try
to leave personal issues I know nothing about up to the person it pertains to.
Criticizing the character of someone who was part of a victimless violation? He
can't change the past, he can only try to make his future better and people are
saying Whit is lowering his standards to let this kid into the program. They
should just be glad the NCAA doesn't set an age limit or they might only have
Heaps and about five other guys ready to go on Saturdays.
I hope this kid can iron things out so he can be prepared to be a STUDENT
athlete.===Whoo baby. Y trolls out in force on this
topic (surprise). Nice.Since today is August 30th, and many of you
math-challenged Y "fans" have called him 20, I submit:"Thompson said records indicate Thomas is 19 and turns 20 on Sept.
15."He's 19.If you're simply "rounding
up" for the funny sound bites---don't bother, the crux of this issue is his
exact birthdate.He's 19.But I guess that's 20.==="It makes me sad as a church member to say that the least
tolerant and most insensitive people I know come from a church-endorsed
school." ---StGtoSLCIt's sports. We can/should get over
it. The haters are fun because:1) Some of their jokes are
good.2) They often have poor logic skills, and so defending your point of
view--or attacking theirs, if necessary---is usually pretty easy. 3) It
clearly goes both ways. On rare occasions, someone on the Y side actually
acknowledges that.If it spreads out to other aspects of life, I
might care more. But on the gridiron, who cares?
In America, unlike in China, we have a thing called due process where one is
"innocent until proven guilty". I for one will wait and see and if he
is found guilty I still think kid deserves a 2nd chance to right his wrongs.
Give me a break. When I was in 6th grade I knew what my birth date was. I
guarantee this kid knew when he was in 6th grade (11 years old) that he was born
in 1991 and not in 1992! Looks like he and his parents tried to pull a fast one
and were caught in a lie!
joecoog,Do you have an explanation for how the BYU basketball team,
that also has RMs on the roster, is able to have a near perfect APR, while the
BYU football team was given a very low score?The discrepancy in
scores between football and most other sports at BYU argues strongly against
missionary service being the cause of the low APR score for the football team.
chicagoborn,Before commenting about apr you need to understand how it is
computed. Each student athlete hasa chance to score 2 points. one for
maintaining a grade-point average that keeps him on track to graduate on time
and one point returning for the next semester. The ncaa doesnt take into accout
for missionaries. So lets say byu has a recruit that plays his freshman year
and gets a 4.0 but then leave on a mission will recieve one point for his gpa
but does not get the point for not returning the next semester. Since more than
half of byu recruits serve missions an unbiased person could see how this hurts
them. You probably don't want to believe this but then just think about it
logically- it is well known that byu students have a much higher gpa and act
score than utah, unlv, and wyoming. So do you think these smarter students all
of a sudden get dumb? That doesnt make any sense. Hopes this helps you out.
so he's 20 and hasn't graduated from HS? Sounds like an intelligent
recruit for the Utes.
Wow, most of you commenters are so kind and respectful of people. Bashing a kid
you don't even know because of a situation where he was held back in school. At
least he has stuck with it and will graduate. He could have dropped out and
become involved in the street life.Being held back is usually not
the kid's fault, and is a decision the schools make to help someone catch up in
their learning abilities.I think Kyle Whittingham should start up a
bit of an investigation though and get some explanation as to what happened.
Our program doesn't need the spotlight of a "Cam Newton" situation.If he can get some credible explanations, the kid definitely deserves a
chance to make something of himself just like the Shaky Smithsons, the Nai
Fotus, and the Josh Gordons of the world should have if they choose to own up to
All the BYU fans on this board talking down the Pac12 TV deal are in denial. Enjoy any dig you can get in this year. Ute fans will just continue to roll
our eyes and laugh while knowing next year begins the greatest television
agreement in sports history. And yes the Utes will be on National TV every week
with the possible exception of out of conference road games.And someone
please tell me why BYU fans think making fun of Utah being on Versus is funny?
Versus is national folks and I for one would have no problem with that station
every single week if needed. People will be looking for a game on Versus a
million times over before ever looking for BYUtv.The regional networks are
not for football or Mens basketball by the way...they're for the olympic sports
and even academic programming. Some of you Cougar fans need to read up on things
before making foolish comments that only hurt your credibility and make Ute fans
On a lighter note, how about the article about Steve Smith and his relationship
with mentor/coach Fred Graves!If you didn't read the article, do it.
It's worth the time.
It's a shame somebody has to go through something like this so publicly so that
a bunch of hypocritical fans from another school can attack him like this.
Fortunately, probably a year from now most people will have forgotten about this
because his play on the field and in the community should speak for itself. Even
if he did knowingly break some pathetic rule, that hardly speaks on behalf of
his character. At least Brandon Davies had the dignity of having his issue left
private and for him to discuss. It makes me sad as a church member to say that
the least tolerant and most insensitive people I know come from a
chicagoborn,Don't go there. I have pointed out that fact,
encouraging people to check the NCAAs website about APRs for themselves, but the
BYU Faithful don't want to talk about it. It's an inconvenient truth that
either is ignored, misunderstood, or denied my many on these boards.Anyway, I hope this young man makes the most of the opportunity presented to
Re truecoug:One thing you are not accounting for is that it doesn't
matter if Utah is a good draw because they will be playing teams who are. The
Utah byu game will also be on ESPN every year. As long as Utah stays in the
upper half of the conference, Mr Thompsons everywhere should have no problem
following most of Utah's games.Also, a Cal Utah game on regional ABC
for example is still a game that would be broadcasted to about 50 million
people.I don't even know why we are arguing over this, the
undeniable fact is that both Utah and byu have the best TV contracts they've
ever had and what they have now is 1000 times better than watching games on the
byronbca | 4:26 p.m. Aug. 30, 2011 Salt Lake City, UT "Re
truecoug1:Are you really unaware that the Pac 12 just signed the biggest
NATIONAL TV contract in NCAA sports history and that it doesn't go into
affect[sic] until next year?"===Utah is part of the
PAC-12 and if Larry Scott wanted, and advertisers asked, Utah would be on
National TV every week. Even the Kardashians can get on TV. Lose the tired
arguments. They don't hold water.===A twenty year old
kid trying to pass himself off as an 18 year old?Josh Gordan coming
to Utah after a second offense?What kind of pressure is Kyle under?
@The RabbitYou can come back and talk when BYU's APR isn't last in the
Mountain West Conference. Although they were beaten by some academic powerhouses
like UNLV and Wyoming.
@mormon uteWhat we have actually all learned on these boards is that
you will accept any story given to you, no matter how ridiculous it may be, so
long as it is about a utah player.Of course he knew how old he is,
it's laughable to even pretend he didn't, that is unless he is really the
dumbest kid on the planet and has no business going to college anyway. Let's not
forget he was held back once. So maybe you are onto something here and maybe
this is the sort of "student" the u is looking for.I mean
as The Rabbit pointed out he is a 20 year old that is going to graduate
"early" from high school.LOL!
Good for him. Almost 20 and he is looking at finishing high school
"early" in order to join Utah. Those PAC12 academics just keep getting
better and better!
@byronbcaOh no, I'm fully aware of that. I'm also fully aware that
the PAC 12 "national" network only comes standard on the cable
packages of people in the PAC 12 region (thereby only reaching 40 million homes)
and I'm pretty sure that Texas is not part of that.I'm also fully
aware that Utah's game vs USC was put on Versus this year, while Colorado's game
against the Trojans is on ESPN2.So I ask you, if Utah isn't getting
on ESPN NOW in the current PAC 10 TV deal (and Colorado is), what makes you
think they'll get on ESPN next year when the new TV deal goes into place?Food for thought...but here's hoping Mr. Thompson gets to see a couple
of Utah football games :)Go Cougars!
Re truecoug1:Are you really unaware that the Pac 12 just signed the
biggest NATIONAL TV contract in NCAA sports history and that it doesn't go into
affect until next year? Or are you just pretending ignorance so your joke makes
sense?Here is a quote from ESPN to help simplify it: "Under
this deal, Fox and ESPN will split the rights to college football games. ESPN
will air its games on cable as well as ABC; Fox will show its games on its
broadcast network, basic cable network FX and on the Fox Sports Net regional
networks". ESPN will be airing a minimum of 2 Pac 12 games every week and
FX will also be airing games a week so that means only 2 pac 12 games per week
could be regional. So No, this year is not a viable indicator of
what Utah's TV deal will be like in the future because they currently are not
part of the old Pac 10's contract or their new one. Assuming Mr
Thompson from Texas has basic cable he should be able to watch at least half of
Utah's games next season.
Mormon Ute,You're saying that in 19 years of life and through
college applications, job applications, drivers license applications, and the
dozens of other important forms this kid has filled out he never once would have
figured out his age? That excuse may pass in China. This is
America. This kid has a college scholarship and he doesn't know how
old he is? If you're buying that, wow. Those summer sales kids must really
""I want [Thomas] to take care of completing his education and put
this behind him," Thompson said. "I want to see him be successful and
watch him play for Utah on (television)."He wants to watch
Thomas play for Utah on TV? I didn't think they got KJZZ down in Texas...LOL!I'm pretty sure Utah's PAC 12 regional network only
covers Utah and Colorado, too, and, if this year is any indication with Utah
being relegated to Versus this year in the PAC 12, I don't think they'll be on
the national networks anytime soon :)Go Cougars!
Duckhunter,Of course you don't believe him or his coach. As we've
all learned on these comment boards you believe you know better than just about
anybody about just about anything. You're wrong about the missionary age. Any
kid who goes on a mission straight out of high school without playing won't even
set foot on the field or court until they're well over 21. That's about where
this kid will be.Whether the kid knew or not, his parents certainly
did and that's where the responsibility is. It probably goes back to 6th grade
when he had to repeat a grade. He was likely heavily into sports by that time
and his parents knew he'd be inelligible for his senior season once he turned
19. At that point they might have told him there was a mistake on his age or
something and he believed them. None of us know enough of the facts to pass
judgement on him. Hopefully this won't be the start of a pattern of hiding
embarrassing facts rather than dealing with them up front.
He really thought he was 18? Ok. If true he must be a real Einstein. The kid is
20 years old. He'll be playing college football to an older age than any
missionary would.Personally I don't beleive he didn't know.
Disappointing that someone would try to lie and cheat by changing all this dates
associated with his records. Hopefully he had no connection to that. A coach
then maybe? Hopefully it is discovered who.
Actually I think the real question is whether he's Paul Millsap moonlighting as
a High School Football Player. Guess he got bored during the lockout...Look at pictures of each of them, side by side.They could at
least be brothers, or cousins, if nothing else! And before anyone
jumps on me for dissing on Millsap, it's a JOKE! I think Millsap is one of the
best guys on the Jazz and a class guy. This was just too fun to pass up.
wow! That must be a really confusing/difficult ordeal for Thomas... I hope he
can graduate quickly and help out his Ute football team.