Screen name,It is revealing that you assume "building people's
belief systems" is the only valid purpose for comments. That pretty much
sums up the attitude in the LDS "bubble".
LValfre,Here's a bit of advice: People are more prone to listen to
your message if you aren't so condescending. Especially when that condescension
is so misplaced in the first place. I notice you didn't address any
of the points I brought up.
Screenname,Just trying to save lives bud, please relax. I'd save
every one of you one by one if I could. The indoctrination is too strong for
Vanka, Although I agree with you that it's slightly annoying when
someone adds their testimony to an article that has nothing to do with the LDS
Church, there is a important and significant difference between the two
scenarios you put forth. If this were politics, it would be expressed as
"Tell me why I should vote for you and not why I shouldn't vote for the
other guy." One type of comment uplifts people's belief
systems. LValfre's comments usually do not build; they attempt to destroy an
existing belief system. He's essentially negative campaigning for his belief
system by destroying other belief systems. I'm not saying he doesn't have a
right to do it; I'm just saying it's rude, mean-spirited, and people are right
to call him out for it.
Just for clarity:The Salt Lake Tribune is owned by the MediaNews
Group. This is not an LDS church company.The Deseret News is owned
by the Deseret News Publishing Company, an LDS Church company.Both
of these papers are printed and distributed by the Newspaper Agency Corporation,
a jointly owned distribution entity and could be, by association, be construed
as a partly owned LDS church entity. They are a printing, delivery and
advertising company and do not contribute to the news and editorial content in
either paper.In what other venue could an article about the economic
benefits of education be twisted into a religious conversation? Kind of
funny.Reason tells us that the more skills, knowledge, and
capabilities one brings to the workforce, the greater the value of that person's
contribution. Those who bring only skills that are in abundance and require
little to acquire will indeed command less compensation. I believe that this is
a reasonable condition.
'I even like Pagan because he/she makes statements ABOUT the article in ways
that I have not thought of. While I don't always agree with him/her, I
appreciate he/she is on topic...' - ER in EUR | 12:41 a.m. Aug. 18, 2011 Thank you for the compliment. In LVafre's defense, many
times when I post ANY article about the LDS church I am labled a 'hater'... when my SOURCE for the article is from the DSNews or SL Tribune, both
owned by... the LDS church. It is this Irony that
points out that almost ALL criticism of the LDS church is viewed by some of it's
members as 'hate'. Instead of, factual.
ER in EUR,Any article in the DN is at risk of having a zealous
believer put a testimony or the church into their comment. And everyone thinks
it is wonderful. They say "this is an LDS owned newspaper. If you don't
like it, move out of Utah and read the Trib!"I guarantee you if
I posted "Bill/JM, we get it, you are an overzealous religious
fanatic." the editorial staff would deny my comments, or readers would call
me hateful.But you can say "we get it. You are angry and have
an axe to grind. You are a hater." and it is OK because you are defending
the majority religious view.I like LVafre's comments. I think they
are relevant. EduCation is important and it is associated with non-religious
belief systems. Only a narrow mind would not see the relevance of that.Perhaps you should take your own advice and come back less paranoid and
It's the type or kind of people who get college degrees that are better workers.
Is not the college degrees that make the people better workers.There is a big difference between learning and education.There is
a big difference between workers and non-workers.
And where are Senator Stephenson's replies to this article? We know how he
feels about higher education, even though he has his own degrees from BYU.
LVafre,We get it. You feel a personal responsibility to
make statements about the LDS church that have tangential or tenuous link to the
articles. We get it.I promise I won't preach a sermon
to you if you promise to stop commenting on things purely to take shots at the
Mormons.I really like to read the comments ABOUT the article. I
even like Pagan because he/she makes statements ABOUT the article in ways that I
have not thought of. While I don't always agree with him/her, I appreciate
he/she is on topic and not a one trick pony with an ax to grind. Please re-evaluate and come back focused.
The way we got here is not with a DEGREE, Not with a High School deploma.You just need to look back at history and learn about our inventors.
The reason for the news story is the new survey. And it's good that the results
are reported because there are still many people who don't get the picture. For
example, folks shouldn't believe that a degree is "too expensive" if
you can get one for $20K (assuming no grants or scholarships) and you get back
$650K (on average) and many other benefits.
They should do a study about those who have left Utah. I left Utah after High
School and have never gotten my degree. But with lots of experience I have a
six figure income...... And working for the federal government is not a happy
What negative group. Most of the young people that do not have a secondary
education in my opinion are in that position due to a number of factors:First - many come from or live in poverty or from families where they do
not receive encouragement and are defeated by their environment;Second - If they are behind they receive little or no help at home, they are
treated as "slow" by their school and because of that, their peers and
the school help them to fail; andThird - they become discouraged and
it becomes easy to quit.Even the 20% from educated families probably
do not go on because of something in their lives that cause them to become
"Parents need to teach proper priciples in the home and children need to
learn to study."Agreed! Too many parents think this is taught
in the Church, it's not! Some of the most kind, generous, and caring people I
know are Atheists who had a good upbringing from their parents. They don't
judge, care about race (and before 1978 I might add!!!!), and down people as
immoral since they don't believe in the same god.
I think they need to tax these "happy" people. Is there a way to tax
satisfaction. Affirmative action? Taking spots for qualified
students and giving them to un-qualified students is not the answer. Parents
need to teach proper priciples in the home and children need to learn to study.
Race should not be used to judge people - even if it means a free ride.
I needed a survey to tell me this?
'Utahns with better educations fare better in jobs, life and family, new poll
shows' - Title And yet... *'Affirmative action may be
back on the table' - By Robert Gehrke - SL Tribune - 11/15/2010 'The
solution, Oda said, is to end race-based preferences by amending Utahs
Constitution to prohibit the state from giving any race- or gender-based
preference in education, employment and awarding state contracts.'
Efforts have been made to try and PREVET assistance in education...
to groups that, typically, make around 30% LESS THAN their caucasian counter
parts. This amendment was a clear and evident example of the
worst in us. Racism in education. Want more evidence?
*'Backers of proposed Utah affirmative action amendment don't show' - By Lisa
Riley Roche, Deseret News - 12/03/10 'SALT LAKE CITY Members of the
Utah Constitutional Revision Commission were irked Thursday when backers of a
proposed amendment to end affirmative action in the state didn't bother to show
This is nationwide, not just in Utah. Another similar story, the higher the
education level the greater level of secularism. Another similar story, most
new LDS converts come from areas with low levels of education. Another similar
story, I'm smart. : )
Stop the presses! Here's a new flash! Educated People Fare Better!!!! (The
uneducated read this with difficulty and mumble to themselves "wull, that's
This seems to be one of those news stories that gets thrown in to fill out an
empty news day. This information has been reported before ad nauseam, yet news
outlets seem to keep reporting it. Though, this article does hit on the other
aspects of life and family that similar articles often leave out, but still...