To "Esquire | 5:16 p.m" you are wrong about that. Obama was elected
into the Senate in 2006, and was part of the problem.
@ lost in DC, utter nonsense. Bush handed Obama the biggest mess in 60 years,
and now you want to blame him for the sins of the Republicans.Also,
with taxes effectively at the lowest point in decades, a little revenue will
work wonders. How can you have ANY government if you keep starving it?
Going back to utesovertide | 9:21 a.m. Aug. 2, 2011 Salt Lake City, UT We see examples of problems righ here in today's DN when it proclaims
that developers owe $120 million in local taxes not paid on time. That is more
than I have paid in a lifetime. I would imagine that he is not using any of the
services paid for by the rest of us, roads, water etc. and he propes to develop
and make more.I do not begrudge anyone making more money than I do
because the get up earlier, work harder or produce a better product. I do feel
bad when they have the resources to pay little or no taxes locally, to the state
or their just share in federal taxes.I have suggested before that we
set everything back to 2000, wages, bread prices etc. and see if we can't get it
right the 2nd time around. OK, I admit that wouldn't work but maybe while we
struggle to get out of the pit, we can learn a little from how we fell into it.
Also which is best, unemployment or paying for the trouble it causes?
If people wish to insist on more states rights and less federal involvement then
stop complaining when all the federal money stops coming.
To "Pagan | 3:15 p.m." you are ignoring the root question that I, and
others keep asking you.If Bush is so evil for the things that he
did, why is Obama good when he amplifies the same policies that Bush had?For example, lets take deficit spending. In 8 years, Bush averaged $500
billion each year in deficit spending. Now Obama's average is currently $1.413
trillion each year. Why is Bush's spending bad and Obama's good?Lets look at Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya. You say Bush is evil for going
into those countries and attacking them without provocation. Afghanistan at
least was harboring Osama. Now Obama goes into Libya and commits our troops and
missiles there, and that is good in your eyes. Libya did nothing to us, and
Obama going to war is good. So, which is it? Is going to war against a nation
that has done nothing to us good or bad?Do you see how your
hypocrisy shows when you post your standard anti-Bush posts? If it is bad for
Bush, why is the same thing good for Obama?
Every economist with half a brain will tell you that you don't cut government
spending during a recession, yet here we are, throw in two un-funded wars, tax
cuts for the rich and so-called "job creators" aka large corporations,
and what do we have? Yea, a country on the verge of bankruptcy and most experts
agree its only going to get worse now. And yet we have these geniuses in
Congress, including four from this State, who are thrilled to watch this happen.
And for what? Political ideology and expediency (Hatch)? Folks, lets vote
these dolts out of office, and if you can't stomach voting for the Democrat,
even though in this State that Demo is really just a moderate Republican
elsewhere, at least vote for the Independent! If nothing else we'd know he/she
hasn't sold their political souls to some large corporation who doesn't have
yours or my best interest in mind.
'Are you refering to G.E.? So you and your ilk are ok with these "job
creators" paying no taxes; money saved from this going out to stockholders
through increased dividends and any jobs created are overseas??' - ImaCaMan |
2:03 p.m. Aug. 2, 2011 supported. "According to
the Pew Economic Policy Group, an extension of all of the Bush tax cuts will
cost $3.1 trillion over ten years, once the costs of servicing the debt are
factored in." Where are the jobs? Oh! That's right.
It's ok for Bush and Republicans to DOUBLE the national debt to $10
trillion.... but when Obama adds $3 trillion...it's 'bad.' Obama's unauthorized war on Libya costs $9,421,000 a day' - Redshirt Reply: *'Iraq war could cost taxpayers $2.7 trillion' - By David
Goldman - CNN - 06/12/08 '...told members of Congress that the war costs
taxpayers about $430 million per day...' $9 million per day under
Obama. A Democrat $430 million under Bush. Just for Iraq.
Republican. Which is more?
This is why I am no longer a Republican, when Bush was running up the trillions
I spoke up and said we need to slow down and pay for what we are spending. I
was called a TRAITOR, a BAD REPUBLICAN and unpatriotic. Now all of
a sudden the debt is an issue, HYPOCRISY.I hope the cuts hit both
sides of the isle as both contributed to the mess. It will be even more
satisfying watching Republicans, who say they are for smaller government squirm
as the cuts hit them and their greedy Big Corporation base.Republicans claim to be for smaller government but Bush presided over the
largest expansion of it since the New Deal. His spending with 2 wars, medicare
prescription, bank bailout is inching up to 6 trillion dollars.
Re: Tom_e "The attitude of half the country (those who don't really pay
any taxes) is "It is your money and I want it now". Now some of these
people are worried. Their handouts might be decreased or worse yet they might
have to pay taxes."Are you refering to G.E.? So you and your
ilk are ok with these "job creators" paying no taxes; money saved from
this going out to stockholders through increased dividends and any jobs created
It seems like most people who align with the Tea Party movement have fallen for
this Koch brother's deception. If you don't address the correct problem, you
are unlikely to find the best, of Glenn Beck, Palin and Rush Limbaugh solution.
If the GOP US government went out of business (completely stopped spending
money) other than continuing its current stream of tax collections, it would
take around 20 years to simply pay off the existing debt. The reality is that
this debt will never be paid off in dollars of the same purchasing power that
they have today. In a nutshell, this is why the US dollar is doomed. I hope
this information helps. The main thesis of my column is that all the
politicians and just about everybody in the media is using the wrong set of
figures in discussing the federal government's budget, budget deficit, and debt.
You have to use an accrual basis of accounting to get the true picture of the
financial situation. The accrual basis figures are so horrible that politicians
just won't discuss them at all. And the media takes what is spoon-fed to them
without checking if the information is correct.
To both LostinDC and Pagan: in reading your postings it is like watching a
cartoon, each wanting to say "Your guy was worse than my guy". It is
that type of rhetoric that infects our government today. The problem
is that we have an out of control debt. Both parties (and those of US who voted
for them) caused this. The question is now how do we begin the process of fixing
the problem? We need to reprioritize our spending in as gradual a manner as
possible. To do otherwise and to default on our debt would have dramatic
repercussions on the economy, both home and abroad. So put aside the finger
pointing, come to the table as Americans, and let's find common ground.
The Federal Government wants to take care of our every need and protect us from
all harm and a lot of you are all in favor of such a plan. However, this plan
has already been presented and was rejected 66% to 33%. Every one of you voted
with the majority. Have you forgotten? This plan is no better today
than when originally presented. Life is meant to be hard and unfair. We are
supposed to struggle and overcome difficulties, or die trying. Yet today many,
now close to most, want to go back to the old plan.Satan must be
very proud that so many have finally come around to his way of thinking!
Hey Utah - What's this costing us?. US researchers are carrying out an
online survey on the lives and experiences of LGBT Mormons. Renee Galliher, a
psychology professor at Utah State University, and Bill Bradshaw, a biology
professor at Brigham Young University, say they hope to find out the truth about
the gay Mormon experience and give faith leaders more. Why does Sen Mike Lee
and Hatch support these types, GOProud deserves a spot at the annual
Conservative Political Action Conference in a post entitled, "GOProud makes
me roll my eyes, sigh in disbelief, laugh them off, ignore their obvious
incitement. And sometimes: Jump to their defense."
Redshirt,don't bother with Pagan. The concept of magnitude is lost
on him. BO's two debt ceiling increases were the two largest, ever, and dwarf
bush's 7 increases.He has yet to say why BO's claim made in 2006
that the need to raise the debt ceiling evidenced a lack of leadership, but it
does not show a lack of leadership now.The concept of congressional
authorization doesn't square with his BO worship, so he just ignores it.but at least he's entertaining.
To Pagan | 11:12 a.m. lets take a look at what your dear leader has done for
us.From October 18, 2010 at CBS News National Debt Up $3 Trillion on
Obama's Watch. That was less than 2 years after he took office, and he allowed
nearly as much debt as Bush did in 8 years. That doesn't look good for
Obama.Lets see what Obama was saying during Bush's term in office
about raising the debt ceiling. From USA Today, January 6, 2011 in a story
titled "Obama once opposed lifting debt ceiling." we read a nice quote
from 2006 Senator Obama. He said "I therefore intend to oppose the effort
to increase America's debt limit." So, which Obama do we listen to?How about the June 16, 2011 LA Times article "Obama's unauthorized
war on Libya costs $9,421,000 a day: Are you getting your money's worth?"
Why do you not complain about that like you do Iraq and Afghanistan which were
authorized?Your arguements seem to be too one sided, and ignore fact
that Obama is equal to or worse than Bush.
Chewing their finger nails to the bone, sweating over more Pork and Earmarks,
most Utahns anxiously are awaiting details on federal budget cuts?. What if I
told you the political posturing of Mike Lee and Hatch supported this, with YOUR
tax dollars, would you still support them, or call them a RINO?. Can you
imagine the roar you would hear in this country if someone suggested the
government pay for renovations of some our most sacred cathedrals and churches?
The ACLU would be all over it, Atheist would be foaming at the mouth, and
rightfully so; separation of church & state. I know you wouldn't tolerate
that for one moment. What if I told you that mosques in the Middle East were
being refurbished with government funds? You'd say "yeah, but out there,
government and religion mix together so it's OK over there". What if I
told you it was the United States of America, and its citizens paying to
renovate mosques over there?. The good will tour of the Middle East by the imam
behind the proposed mosque near Ground Zero is just part of the U.S.
government's efforts to reach out to the Muslim world?. My
This is not an attempt to be insensitive although it may certainly sound that
way. If the country wants to climb out of the near catastrophe that is its
government spending binge, tolerated by Bush II and fed by a tax and spend
contress then enflamed by Obama, it will cost jobs in the government sector.
Yes, it will cost jobs if you work for the bloated government which should not
be the place for so many jobs anyway. If you work for the private sector then
it will create a tremendous number of jobs and that is where you should be
looking anyway to contribute to our country and not just live off it. That is
where the past prosperity has been and where the future prosperity will be. The
current debt cap deal is a good effort to change direction just as the budget
plans and the continuation of Bush tax cuts have been the only things keeping us
out of a deeper recession. But it is a deal to increase spending at its heart.
The next step is to reverse the trend and it must be serious. The democrats and
our President are not yet serious.
'Utahns anxiously awaiting details on federal budget cuts' - Title
But no one cared, before.... * 'Bush Administration Adds $4 Trillion
To National Debt' - by Mark Knoller - CBS News - 09/29/08 'It'll be
the 7th time the debt limit (ceiling) has been raised during this
administration. In fact it was just two months ago, on July 30, that President
Bush signed the Housing and Economic Recovery Act, which contained a provision
raising the debt ceiling to $10.615 trillion.' Who got support
from: 'But that has mainly to do with the fact that Republicans
control both houses of the Legislature (in Utah), hold all statewide offices and
about 60 percent of the state's population is Mormon, a reliable GOP
constituency.' In a story written by By Josh Loftin, Associated
Press - Published by DSNews - 07/31/2011
The spendthrift child e-mails(texts)his father:No "Mon",
No fun your son...The father e-mails(texts)his son:Too
bad so sad your Dad.
The workers dependent on federal dollars for their pay are rightfully concerned
about cuts in federal monies. But, the modest amount agreed to is hardly a
threat less than 5% cut over ten years, which is less than the annual growth of
8% projected for the period. The total amount of spending for this year is 7
billion dollars, which is not even 1% of this years budget. Now if the
partisans try to make all cuts on descretionary spending things could get pretty
difficult. And, defense spending is already targeted to get heavier cuts than
others because of the 50/50 agreement for the next round if cuts do not meet the
cap targets. Solutions are available that are modest, and while requiring
sacrifice from all doable. Remember that the major reductions in employment to
this point have come in the private sector. The pubic sector can not be immune
to the transition of the country from a financial goliath to a very timid david
on the day he left his slingshot home.
The problem with handouts is that it is soon forgotten that it was an act of
kindness, one person helping another. It quickly changes to an entitlement,
something that is deserved and owed. It can't be taken away.People
with a hand out looking for help should be aware that when times get tough the
pool of people that are able to help shrinks dramatically, soon there is no one
left to ask for help. You will be left on your own to take care of your self.
That is sad, but it is our future.
'If you want to cut gov't spending, stop taking the money folks.' - Kami | 9:07
a.m. Aug. 2, 2011 Supported: *'Herbert seeks disaster
declaration for Utah as a result of floods' - By Amy Joi O'Donoghue - DSNews -
01/21/11 *Gov. Herbert declares state of emergency as 2011 flood
season nears climax By Ladd Brubaker DSNews 06/27/11 *'Rick Perry
(R-Gov./Tx), After Raising Secession, Calls For Fed Help With Swine Flu' -
Huffington Post - 04/27/09 *'E-mail raises new questions about
influence of Herbert campaign contributions' - By John Daley and Lisa Riley
Roche - Deseret News - 09/28/10 That $13 million dollar
settlement? It 'only' came from federal money. Kami's
comments are supported. If you don't like federal money... stop
being first in line to ask for it.
I keep hearing that we should tax the rich Americans and the corporations that
are flush with cash. I keep hearing that these "rich patriots" as BO
calls them are ready and willing to pay more in taxes. Warren Buffet has said
he supports being taxed more and would love to contribute more to the government
and the country.Well, what's stopping them? No one needs to wait on
Congress to pass legislation to pay more in taxes. If you send more money to
the IRS I'm sure they won't refuse it.So, why aren't these
"rich patriots" just sending in a few million more on their tax bills?
Simple. They don't want to be at a disadvantage relative to their
other rich buddies who aren't on the same page of generosity.This is
why we need tax reform and need a flat tax so that everyone pays the same
percentage in taxes which would dampen class warfare and get the 50% of
Americans who pay no income tax to start contributing at least a little bit to
this great country.
So I guess the conservative State of Utah wants to cut US gov't spending EXCEPT
for the funds it sends to Utah??? Put your money where your mouth is. If you
want to cut gov't spending, stop taking the money folks.
Weren't Utahns the ones who so proudly said we didn't need Federal money?Our only hope for recovery lies in booting the Obama administration out
of office. They are so anti-business it's scary and the regulations Obama can't
pass through Congress he has the all powerful EPA put into effect instead. I hate to remind the President, but the only body authorized by our
Constitution to pass laws is Congress. Why the Supreme Court hasn't put a stop
to the EPA yet I have no clue, they're supposed to be the constitutionality
The attitude of half the country (those who don't really pay any taxes) is
"It is your money and I want it now". Now some of these people are
worried. Their handouts might be decreased or worse yet they might have to pay
Why should the federal govt pay one cent to extend TRAX?
'It would be interesting to see how many extra buses UTA could put on the road
if they lowered the dozens of salaries above 100k per year to under 100k per
year.' - Fitness Freak | 8:30 a.m. Aug. 2, 2011 Supported: *'UTA compensation sees sharp increase following 'secret' survey' - By John
Daley - KSL - 05/17/10 'UTA's top man, General Manager and CEO John
Inglish, was paid $330,000 in 2005. For the next five years, he was paid a
similar sum, until 2009 when it jumped to nearly $350,000.' Want
other examples of federal dependance? *'Herbert seeks disaster
declaration for Utah as a result of floods' - By Amy Joi O'Donoghue - DSNews -
01/21/11 Cut everything...except my pay. *'Chaffetz
blasts federal pay raises, except his own' - By Becky Bruce - DSNews -
11/10/10 'Each member of the House and Senate earned $174,000 this
year. (sic) When asked whether $174,000 is too much, Chaffetz pointed
instead to the overall congressional budget and said it needs to be revamped.
"It doesn't mean that everybody's going to get an individual
pay cut," Chaffetz said." And people wonder why the gov.
has no money?
It would be interesting to see how many extra buses UTA could put on the road if
they lowered the dozens of salaries above 100k per year to under 100k per
year.I guess as long as they feel they're ENTITLED to ridiculous
salaries, NO WORRIES!
pragmatistforlife,the author of that campaign slogan served his two terms.
Amazing how you libs all go back to him when you don't get everything 100% your
way.Esquire,how much is enough? how much of someone else's
money do you think we should take? The more you take, the more BO will
spend.A sufficient turn-around in the economy will not happen as
long as BO is president. BO is too anti-business. How can we have
a turn-around when Obamacare creates barriers to new hiring?How can
we have a turn-around when BO sues companies trying to expand production
capacity? (see Boeing's attempt to build a new plant in SC). How
can we have a turn-around when BO is doing everything he can, by-passing
congress (the house of the people) to place cap and tax through ridiculous EPA
regulations? How can we have a turn-around when BO creates so much
uncertainty? How can we have a turn-around with the highest
corporate tax rates in the developed world, creating incentive to relocate
overseas?Tax all you want and it won't do any good because BO
prevents a turn-around.
Please cut spending....."just not mine or ours."
Ahhh, there's that good old compasionate conservatism we hear so much about
"21,000 state workers, including some 4,500 who depend on federal funds for
at least half of their salaries".Holy cow 21,000 state workers,
no wonder we are running out of money. We had better cut all their bennies and
retirement and about 1/2 of those jobs. 21,000 that is out of whack. Gov't has
grown into a monster that is about to take itself down. UTA a complete out of
control money pit
budget experts . . . agreed the measure falls far short of the drastic action
needed to address America's massive and long-term structural debt problem."A drop in the bucket, or even spit in the ocean," chuckled
Maya MacGuineas, president of the nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible
Federal Budget.But this is nowhere close to the amount of savings we
need to really get on top of this deficit and debt challenge,""We're on course to borrow about $10 or 11 trillion over the next 10
years. ... .And $2.5 trillion in savings over 10 years is not going to fix the
problem. It's not even going to set us on the right course quite yet."Wow! What a great compromise - too little too late
I wish I could believe Ken Ivory. The GOP way is to protect the wealthy and
corporate interests. A small tax increase at the federal level and the turn
around in the economy will make this issue go away, and the Republicans can
create another crisis on another issue. Some common sense is needed, but the
GOP wold rather amass more power and control than do the right thing.
Of course people are worried. That's what happens when someone promises you
free stuff but then you find out that they have nothing, only what they take
from somebody else. If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.Utah shouldn't worry too much. Representative Bishop voted to increase the
debt another 2+ Trillion dollars so I imagine Obama will let a little of it
trickle down here.
Yes, people will be hurt, and that is unfortunate.However, we are
out of money, and 43 cents of every dollar spent today is money that hwe have to
borrow from somewhere, and eventually pay back with interest.The
free lunch is over, and people will have to find new jobs, new sources of income
and new sources of help. Even if every dollar of income and wealth of 'the
Rich" was confiscated, it would not bring revenue anywhere near what
Congress is spending now or planning to spend.There is no other
choice than to cut programs, good programs, long standing programs.If your personal lifestyle was based on running up bills on credit cards all
the time and never paying them off, eventually no one would give you another
credit card. Your problem is spending too much, not the credit card people for
refusing to loan you more money you obviously cannot pay back.We are
out of money. Deal with it.Then explain to your children and
grandchildren why they will be paying outrageous tax rates all their lives to
cover the money already spent on all the wonderful government programs we cannot