"When people show up, like Brother Staples, and speak of receiving
guidance outside normal channels, we become concerned," Hmmmm.
The church holds Joseph Smith in extremely high regard and they claim he
received guidance outside normal channels. We should keep our eyes on Brother
Staples. Maybe he knows something.
the difference between Staples and Joseph Smith is that when Joseph Smith was
getting guidance there was no prophet on the earth, therefore per LDS belief
Joseph was called by God to be the prophet, hence the channel of revelation.
I thought this poor man was going to be taken home to be cared for by his
family. At least that's what one of the posts said the last time he was in the
Deseret News. I sure hope his family is here to support him.
"Hmmmm. The church holds Joseph Smith in extremely high regard and they
claim he received guidance outside normal channels. We should keep our eyes on
Brother Staples. Maybe he knows something."Wrong. The Church
does NOT believe that Joseph Smith received guidance outside of normal channels.
A true prophet receive revelation directly from God, which is what happened with
Joseph Smith. This man isn't claiming to be a prophet, he's claiming to be Jesus
Christ himself. Big difference.
Let's hope he can be evaluated for mental illness "brain disorder". If
he has been delusional, clearly this is a case of someone not taking their
medication. Hopefully this saint can get the help he needs. Most mentally ill
people I have worked with are very intelligent and articulate; however, off
their medication they think they are Jesus Christ or John the Baptist!
If the Church thinks that Jail is the only way to help Brother Staples, than
they have a serious problem; another solution is that Brother Staples should
have gone to his Bishop for assistance.
As a church member, I am a little disappointed to see this. What do you think
Jesus would do in this situation? Don't you think he would hear the guy out?
He obviously wants to speak to the prophet really badly. Pres. Monson could
even have security there the whole time. I believe that Jesus would have taken
this guy and comforted him, or at least listened to what he had to say. He
wouldn't have him arrested I am pretty sure. They're saying he is a reasonable
man, just really wants to see the prophet.
Wouldn't that be funny if Bro Staples really was Jesus?
The article said they had directed him to go to his own Bishop and local church
leaders. But he continued to try to see the Prophet. There are proper channels
to go through. But just going there and demanding to see the Prophet is NOT the
way to do it. I bet if he went to try and see the Pope in the same manner the
Catholics would have had him arrested to.
To noneck62:The article specifically says "When people show up,
like Brother Staples, and refuse to accept our advice to go to an ecclesiastical
leader, and become a persistent nuisance, speaks of receiving guidance outside
normal channels, we become concerned,"By "guidance outside
normal channels", they're talking about going to see a bishop or stake
president with your issues. The President of the Church does not need to handle
every-day issues. That's what ward and stake leaders are for. And
the Church isn't who decided to send this guy to jail. They asked him to leave
SEVERAL times, not just once or twice. From there on out it's up to the police
to decide what to do with him, not the church.
noneck, try rereading the whole article without the attitude. You'll find it
We are human. Most of us, Jesus excepted, has dropped a ball at one time or
another. Even Bishops. This is a learning opportunity for all of us. Sure, there
are those that complain, but it is better to identify problems, rather than just
complain, and fix them.Tangent? What does church Handbooks and aircraft
manuals have in common? Much of them are written in blood in that an aircraft
goes down, meets it's shadow, flies into a stuffed cloud, or whatever, whether
by technical problem, pilot error ("short between the headphones"), or
whatever, there is a loss and additions to the manual reflect what was
learned.The difference? To some degree, revelation.
Abbe Faria, you stated:"As a church member, I am a little
disappointed to see this. What do you think Jesus would do in this
situation?"-People ask this a lot, obviously, but
one of the things that many miss is that the Bible does not really answer that
question. I'm referencing the Bible for a reason, just bare with me.1- statements from church leaders about Joseph Smith are generally very
one-sided and are only praising. This isn't bad, but they give a very specific
view of Joseph that I doubt he would have given himself. I remember the first
time I read the King Follett Discourse, although a transcription, I believe it
was much closer to capturing Joseph's speech than most accounts of the man.2- The New Testimant has an account of Jesus Christ's life, but it
wasn't written by him nor did it cover every action he made. It covered the
notable things he did that were public or needed to be recorded. If a
satan-worshiper wished to speak with him, he may have said no- we just don't
know everything.I'm only saying 'what would Jesus do?' often can't
literally be answered.
I should add to my previous 'what would Jesus do?' post...The reason
I wanted to address this question was to make another point entirely, which I
forgot to make.My first point, was that we can't really answer that
question appropriately.My MAIN point in the end was to say that it
is entirely possible that President Monson or others involved in the church
specific to this issue, were doing what Jesus would have done. All I'm really
saying in the end is that we don't really know. We often like to think 'this is
the Christ-like attitude' and forget that this isn't always the case. There are
many things yet to be revealed because we can't handle everything right now...
thus line upon line, etc- but the point... perhaps the church did, very
literally, the right thing. We don't know everything, but I believe Monson is
doing the work of God just fine. That's all we really need to worry about. In
the end, we don't judge the men but trust the work they do. I mean this in a
friendly way, not judging you... just suggesting my view on it. :)
I think it's clear this man has mental health issues and hopefully those will be
addressed and cared for. It's unlikely he's a real threat-more of a public
nuisance-and hopefully with proper attention and treatment he can learn to deal
with his desires to meet Church leaders in ways that are socially appropriate.
I don't think President Monson should visit him-otherwise there will be hundreds
of people show up tommorrow at Church headquarters demanding to see him. I
think the actions of the Church in this matter were appropriate.@zer28 I love it when religious people state that someone who thinks they are
Jesus is of grave concern but thinks channeling Jesus from other magical
communication methods should be taken with grave seriousness.
Hind sight is 20/20 and we can't possibly know everything that went on over the
course of time as this poor gentleman repeatedly came to the Church offices to
see President Monson. We don't even know how many times he appeared before the
prophet was apprised of the situation. This guy may have been completely
sincere in thinking he was Jesus and needed to see President Monson, but let's
face it, in today's society there are plenty of 'nut jobs' out there who could
just as easily have come in at some point with a bomb strapped to him. There
was a day when people could probably come in off the street and meet with the
prophets, but those days are behind us. I am sure everyone tried their best to
do what they thought was in the best interest of everyone involved. Let's hope
this man gets the help now which he clearly needs. The part about
"receiving guidance outside normal channels" was probably not the best
choice of words and easily misconstrued; like I said, hind sight is 20/20. A
little too much armchair quarterbacking going on I think.
Mr. Staples could have been turned to scriptures which say, If they shall say,
Christ is here or there, go not after him. The Son of Man comes neither in the
person of man or woman traveling the earth. That would have ended his delusion
of being Jesus.Jesus Christ is the word of God; the word of God was
shown to us in the flesh so we could see what following God's word looks like.
Christians are not following the word of God through Jesus and that is the
message that even Prophet and First President Monson needs to focus on. God's word cannot be followed as Christian doctrine or Muslim or Hindu
doctrine; it MUST be followed as Law, so it can be judged as Law. It must
conform to what is written, and confirmed with all the other scriptures
considered. There are too many doctrines blocking the kingdom of God because
they do not understand that God is bound by His word... He cannot lie; He
cannot judge one person more favorably than another because he likes his
prayers. He is NOT an unrighteous judge. Seek to establish the Kingdom of God
Re: Abbe Faria | 10:23 a.m. July 27, 2011 "What do you think Jesus
would do in this situation?"John 2:15 Says Jesus made a whip
out of cords, ran some poor souls out of the temple, scattered their money all
over the floor, and scared their animals off.What would Jesus say to
this man today? "Go see your bishop".
My heart goes out to this man & his family. Unfortunately the liberal 60's
come back to bite us in cases like this because of laws this man's family can do
little to get him the help he needs & control his meds.
If the Church security did nothing and then this guy attacked people we would
here no end to the complaints. There is a need for security personnel to do
their job, and they seem to have done it well.
Re: ih8bella | 6:36 p.m. July 26, 2011 "We should keep our eyes on
Brother Staples. Maybe he knows something"Yes, and perhaps we
should keep our eyes on Brother Brian David Mitchell. Maybe he knows something.
Dear Benjamin,I too have "Unusual Communications" with The
Lord!!AND, I too have been trying to get an "Audience with the
President", for the Past Three and a Half Years!However, I have
somewhat further to Travel, since I am in Yorkshire, UK!Never-the-less, I feel personally, that The Lord has a Manner to,
"Contact the President", and He is finding that HIS way of Working, is
NOT exactly as President Monson's!So, it could very well be
possible, that The Lord is asking you to "Pop-In", and put-over His
"Point of View", regarding Many of the, "Ways of the World"
Today?As a Highly Qualified (Multi) Engineer, I have taken to
Studying Spiritual Matters, from This View (Considering that The LORD, who
Engineered This Existence, must be Incredible), and I have found that the
Latter-Day Saints just Cannot Answer "Spiritual Engineering"
Problems!The ONLY Person therefore, having the Power to Answer such
Questions, MUST BE The President(?)With Kindest Regards,Joseph