Comments about ‘Hundreds rally against new Ogden teacher contracts’

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Published: Thursday, July 14 2011 11:53 p.m. MDT

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CHS 85
Sandy, UT

@Braxton

Yes, because the "average" Utah worker has a Master's degree plus thirty to sixty additional hours of credits, in addition to 20 years of experience. That's a pretty fair comparison.

Next, let compare the salaries of nurses to fast food workers. Those greedy murses with their special skills and education are just fleecing everyone!

I didn't know nit-picking individual salaries was fair game on the Deseret News forums. I guess we should also take a look at the salaries of the college-level sports coaches, nurse and physicians at the state hospital, the state Attorney General and his staff, and the auditors of the banking system. I guess they earn their salaries, though. Teachers must be scrutinzed while the others get a free pass.

JSB
Sugar City, ID

Abeille: I've been a teacher and a principal. Tenure does mean the teacher has a job for life because it isn't as simple as "just giving a reason" remove a poor teacher. The process is so cumbersome that it isn't worth the effort. The public is not fooled here. We see all the poor teachers being protected by the union and the public doesn't want to go on paying a good salary for poor performance. If the union would just wake up and cooperate with the administration by acknowledging that there are poor teachers and helping to remove them from the schools, teachers would have a lot more credibility and a lot more respect and support from the public. They would actually look like professionals.

RSL1
Washington, UT

Why would anyone choose a career in education? Low pay, difficult job, poor public opinion, disrespect from your superiors. It's sad because it is a job that should get the most respect, yet in reality it gets the least.

Like the saying goes "Be the change you want to see in the world" I'm going to go buy my kid's teacher a gift card.

Ronald Uharriet
SWun City, Ca.

Where are our values?

Do we need most to support our teachers and be grateful to them for eudcating our children, our business and our governmental leaders, or do we need more to continue supporting the tax break given to the wealthiest in our Nation by G.W. Bush. The wealthiest in our Nation, making over $250,000 per year, have the lowest tax break they have had in 5 decades.

Because of this, our teachers are suffering, our students are suffering, as are those elderly on Social Security, Medicare, Medicade, Welfare, SSI, Food Stamps, Hud, etc.

If we went back to the same tax code before G.W Bush, and during the Clinton Administration, when the economy was at it best in 5 decades, we would not be having the economic problems that we have today.

It is not a good idea to disrespect our teachers. It is not a good idea to disrespect any of our workers. It is time we demand that the wealthiest pay the same tax they paid under Clinton before Bush gave away the store to the wealthiest among us.

eagle
Provo, UT

Not that this makes any difference Braxton but it looks like, based on my children's school calendars that our district's teachers work 39 weeks. I also figure that they don't get paid for not working on holidays or the summer. Now in regards to Mr. Stephen's salary, I'm not sure how educated he is (at least a Bachelor's, probably a Master's if he's working at Weber State), that his salary would be comparable to many with that education. Chances are his salary would be much lower than people with comparable education. Also, it you didn't report how many days or weeks he works for Weber State.

Also, isn't it great that Braxton can blab teacher's salaries over the web. I would say that is one nice protection given to those who work in the private sector. I did investigate this web page mentioned and noticed first year teachers in the school-district in which I live were making less than 30K. Some head custodians were making 10K or more than first year teachers and some 8-10 year teachers. I'm guess I'm alright with that but let's face it, teachers aren't making a fortune.

jsf
Centerville, UT

Ronald Uharriet "Because of this, our teachers are suffering, our students are suffering, as are those elderly on Social Security, Medicare, Medicade, Welfare, SSI, Food Stamps, Hud, etc."

Woops, tax code has nothing to do with what these receipients get paid. Thats a spending side issue determined by congress. Class warfare is so Lenin.

roman republic
Syracuse, UT

Time to slash administrators salaries and cut back on the number of employees in the district offices. Administrators should be forced back into the classroom for a period of the day. Unions are too strong and don't represent kids only their continued flow of money. I am a teacher of 13 years and worked in Ogden district and I love it. There are a lot of good teachers there and some good administrators. One administrator was horrible and is finally out of their job as an admin. and was demoted but i believe they are still receiving the same salary. I would like to make more money, but considering holidays and hours and summer I have it pretty good and would not give that up. What we need is more student accountability. Too many could care less and are lazy and disrespectful and that is perpetuated from the attitudes of the parents.

cdmom
Provo, UT

For all of you who think that because teachers "only work" for 10 months and therefore deserve the pay they get...how about all the professional sports players who get hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars every year for working only a few months per year? Why are we fast to demonize the teachers and not the professional sports players?

Fred44
Salt Lake City, Utah

JSB,

First there is no such thing as tenure. It is career status, and it requires slightly more than a reason it requires an effort to provide remediation, which most administrators do not want to do. This remediation if done correctly will last one year with a teacher improving, or a teacher being terminated. The teachers association does not protect poor teachers, that makes no sense. The association does protect a teachers due process rights. If the system were to work as you would have it, Principals would become all powerful and could dismiss a teacher for no cause. Principals need to quit blaming the association and take on the responsibility of being the educational leader in the building, and help their staff improve. If they have staff members who won't/can't improve, then they need to do their paperwork and have them terminated. In schools were the Principal is the educational leaders good teachers flourish and poor teachers leave on their own, or are invited to leave after an attempt to help them become better.

Wildcat
O-town, UT

The fault, dear posters, is not the teachers. The teachers should get a medal as far as I'm concerned. Dealing with some problem children, declining budgets, increasing class sizes and decreasing pay all while being treated like villains. According to the most important thing in life to republicans--money--there is not incentive to teach. The free market would basically make education a privilege and not a right--education for all is a cornerstone that makes America great.

Instead of government employees leading the way (by the way they have--COLAs have been frozen and hiring freezes have been initiated and state employees have agreed to unpaid furloughs), how about we close a loophole or two on a corporation or not pay tax subsidies to Oil Companies making big profits, or not let jet owners write off the depreciation on their jets before it happens? End the wars! Don't beat up a teacher for a penny and hand a briefcase of money to a corporation. There has to be a balance between Unions and Management--Management Dictatorship is wrong. Only so much money can go to the top before the inverted pyramid collapses (reference 1929).

GO TEACHERS!

Ronald Uharriet
SWun City, Ca.

Lets not pit ourselves against each other. United we stand, divided we fall.

Lets get the taxes back to what they were before George Bush gave the store away to the wealthiest among us making over $250,000. per year.

It should be obvious that if we can not afford to pay our teachers a decent salary, we can not afford to continue giving away our tax money to those making over $250,000 per year.

Let them pay what they paid before President Bush cut their taxes to a 50 year low. We can not afford that gift for the rich.

Our children can not afford to be put into over crowede classrooms and miss out on a good education because the rich dont want to pay taxes on the same scale as the rest of us.

Simple math: If we dont have enough money to pay our teachers, we dont have enough money to give the richest among us an unfair tax break. Let them pay the same percentage that the rest of us pay. No more. No less.

Wildcat
O-town, UT

I have an idea to help education. Let's start a lottery here in Utah and have a good share of the proceeds go to the Department of Education--just like in Idaho. Many people drive up to Idaho to enter the Powerball. Keep the money here and help out our teachers. If you don't like the lottery, you don't have to buy a ticket. The lucky winner of the lottery can then start voting republican to protect his/her wealth. Jets aren't cheap you know. Then the winner can get on this board and demonize teachers and say that are no free rides and to get a job or something and call people like me communists or pinkos because we suggest that you shouldn't be able to write off all your tax obligations. Good times!

DN Subscriber
Cottonwood Heights, UT

I'd like to thank the retired California teacher for their comment.

However, considering that California has consistently spent more than they have taken in and have a debt crisis nearly as bad as the federal government, while Utah has a balanced budget, it is obvious that Utah needs no lessons from California on how to run any government enterprise. Additionally it has been reproted that while California schools were excellent 30-40 years ago, they are among the worst in the country now.

And, I see the Wisconsin teachers, fresh from their spanking by the Wisconsin courts, Legislature and Governor have weighed in. Another source of advice we should studiously ignore.

Unions, or "professional organizations" as they are euphemisticallly called by some, are clearly part of the reason for the decline in schoosl across the nation over the last 30-40 years, and anything that removes them and their corrosive influence from Utah schools and government is a step in the right direction.

Shaun
Sandy, UT

Public employees are not our slaves. They have a job to do but the attitude by so many here that public employees are over paid and lazy are lies. Many teachers start at 30k or less. Many police officers start at 15 dollars an hour.

Why do people on these comment boards defend what wealthy get paid but have a fit when people get paid 50k, 60k etc a year? Why is it wrong for the middle class to make decent money?

WestGranger
West Valley City, Utah

Teachers Unions are the problem. Why is the NEA donating so many teacher's union dues to left-wing special interests that have nothing to do with education? Pay teacher well, pay administrators and union reps less.Students should come before the failing public school system. It needs to be modernized and opened up to new ideas. So far charter schools, homeschooling and other option, as a whole, are far better option.Wake up! The U.S. ranks incredible low in overall education scores.

Midwest Mom
Soldiers Grove, WI

If you run a school like a business, neither school and nor teacher will want your child, if they have a learning disability. No one will want your special child, they will only seek the "best and the brightest" in order to look good. Children will become a product. Teachers will compete for the best "raw materials." Defective components will not do. It will not be cost effective to educate the poor and the disadvantaged. They will become the working class. Doubt me? Google around and see what has happened to charter-ized New Orleans school district. You have to test to get into the better public schools and you only have to maintain a 1.8 GPA at the school that "caters to the working class of New Orleans." It's a brave new world, people; a global economy, where people are bought and sold.

Joe Schmoe
Orem, UT

Sign the contract and start the sick day trail. All of the commenters will be crying for you to come back to work so they don't have to pay for day care.

Five days of paid sick leave are about what you would get for a raise so I would call that even.

Seriously, there aren't enough out of work teachers to fill the spots of your entire district. The parents wouldn't stand for losing the good teachers/coaches.

This will only work if the teachers cave.

UGradBYUfan
Snowflake, AZ

WestGranger - The State doesn't pay union reps, teachers union dues do. Teachers Unions are not the enemy, they merely a voice for teachers. I don't agree with everything they do, but without them teachers have very little protection. By the way, those other countries that are kicking the US' butt in overall education scores, put more money into education and have found ways to allow good teachers to become better and have improved the performance of the "bad" teachers.

BTW, why are the readers of the DNEWS so obsessed with "bad" teachers? Are there really that many bad teachers out there? It sounds like 30-50% of Utah teachers are bad. From what I have seen, I agree with Fred44. Good administrators, that are willing to document interventions, work with under-performing teachers and make them more effective, and if they don't improve they tend to leave teaching because they aren't happy anyway.

Most administrators that I have worked with will support their teachers. But with that said, sometimes, they have an axe to grind with teachers because of their own short-comings. Teachers need representation!

What no one seems to be talking about is evaluating the principals. Why?

UGradBYUfan
Snowflake, AZ

Thank you "On the other hand" - your summary is greatly appreciated, that is exactly what the early posters were saying!

Magic Pog - I completely agree! Education and performance-based pay are not a good match. Students are not machines and there are a lot of variables (student home environment, parental support/abuse, student interactions outside of the class, student nutrition, sleep, drug use, mental state, etc.) that teachers cannot control in the educational process.

If we really want to improve education, improve the evaluation and mentoring system. Mentoring by other teachers should not be exclusively for struggling teachers, but all teachers should be given the opportunity to watch other teachers teach. Teachers should be part of the evaluation process of other teachers. Collaboration leads to improved educational outcomes for students and teachers feeling supported and engaged. If teachers are supported and given respect and evaluated regularly, the bad teachers will not stay in education.

Another thing that could improve teaching would be studying and applying research-based techniques to their classrooms. For extra pay during the summer, teachers could find and do research (action research) in their classrooms and collaborate with teachers and administrators to improve their classroom techniques.

Braxton
ogden, ut

@ CHS 85

Actually when I can see that a police officer who is in arms way and some who have been shot at while protecting and serving make only 1/3 of what many teachers make I say to the teachers,many who make 6 figure incomes, enjoy your 3 month summer vacation, then get back to work and stop complaining.

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