Talk of BYU going undefeated this year speaks to a weak schedule. Three of the
"name" schools didn't earn a bowl game last year. If they are going
to make an impression, they'll have to do it early. In November when national
attention turns to conference races and BCS standings, wins against the WAC
aren't going to impress.
Graham's comments make no sense to me. Maybe that's why he's a writer, and not
a coach. What's the coach suppose to say, "Come on guys we're
going for an 8-4 season! If we get to 8-4, we'll consider it a successful
year."My organization strives for perfection every day. Seldom
do we hit it, but we keep striving.
What the blogger doesn't understand is that reality is not part of the bYu
mindset....never has been.6 years from now, and having never sniffed
a BCS bowl game, kewgars will still be predicting National Championships.It's almost like if you pray hard enough it will come true.
No bcs in pastNo bcs in futureThe future of football in
utah, is utah
Does any team not hope to go undefeated? In the end, I will be watching every
game. I would watch an 0-10 BYU team play Hawaii. Chances are they will lose a
couple of games or more but I hope they win them all. I'm sure no one predicted
a consensus National Championship in 1984. If BYU wins and everyone else loses,
they could easily make it to the big game (NC).
Hedgie,Have you played in organized sports....ever?6
years from now, BYU could have played in two BCS games, you haven't got a
clue.In 2000, no one thought Utah would ever play in a BCS game.It amazes me that you think BYU looking for a national championship
makes BYU fans delusional.The Miami fans, the LSU fans, the TCU
fans, the Boise State fans, etc, etc, who all want to win national
championships, is that reality not part of their mindset too?For
most teams, the undefeated season, the chance to play for a championship, is the
goal, it is the mindset, it is delusional by nature.You don't have a
clue what will happen in the next 6 years.What you don't understand
is that BYU, like ANY other school in the nation, wants the chance to play for a
national championship, the BCS keeps that from happening. Not because BYU
couldn't win it, but because BYU and all the other schools outside of the BCS
aren't allowed to play in a playoff.Just for kicks, where will your
utes be in 6 years? Let's see you make a bold prediction that holds any truth.
Wins or no wins, BYU's future can be summed up in one word:Irrelevance
@Moderate"Talk of BYU going undefeated this year speaks to a weak
schedule."Texas in Austin (Predicted to finish #2 in Big 12.
This is not 2010, this is 2011.)TCU in Dallas (Predicted to battle BSU for
MWC and auto non AQ bid)Ole Miss in Oxford (Predicted to finish in the
middle of the SEC)Oregon State in Corvallis (Predicted to finish 3rd in
North, and fourth overall in PAC12)Hawaii in Hawaii (predicted to win WAC
w/ QB will will be in Heisman conversation)UCF at home (predicted to win
conference)Utah at home (predicted to lose to BYU)Utah State (be
careful what U say. U have them on your schedule the next two years.)Help me understand what's weak about this schedule? It's a far tougher
schedule than any non AQ has had who has made it to a BCS bowl. It's a tougher
schedule than Utah has this year. I agree that it's not in the same discussion
as an SEC or Notre Dame schedule, but to call it weak demonstrates a poor
understanding of college football.
People fail if they don't aim high, and why not aim for the National
Championship? If I aim for mediocrity at work then I'm destined to be mediocre.
You can't tell me that any other school isn't aimed at the same thing. BYU's
different now that they don't have a conference championship to aim for, but
it's all the same even still. All teams want to succeed and success means
Chris BIf the future of Utah football is Utah...How come
it's not going to be on TV?
"What you don't understand is that BYU, like ANY other school in the
nation, wants the chance to play for a national championship, the BCS keeps that
from happening."Star fairy,Yes, Idaho St. players
and fans "dream" on NC's... but guess what? the keep it to
themselves.The most winning College football teams resides only a
few blocks from me. Guess what, the NEVEr mention the words "National
Championship"... instead, it's "win the BIG 10."First
rule of sales: budget conservative - then over deliver.
Well, yes, as a people we aspire to perfection, why wouldn't we do so for our
team as well?The reality that others, from legitimate sports writers
to wedge, chris and others, can't seem to fathom is that we "quest for
perfection," yet our world doesn't fall apart over the tiniest stumble.
Not sure if the atonement applies to sports, but it teaches us some lessons that
are useful in other areas.
Hedge,First rule of failure = Not to believe you can do something.
Followed only closely by, Allowing others to define your goals.
Utah fans spoke of a NC last year alone more than BYU fans did the past 5 years.
Were the Ute fans delusional? I am pretty sure it will work out better for BYU
this year than it did for Utah last year. Mendenhall, Heaps and
others said that the only championship to play for was a national championship
since there was not a conference championship to play for now. BYU's goal is to
win every game, then see where they chips fall.hedgie; So
you've heard everyone associated with Idaho never say they wanted to win a
national championship. It must have taken you thousands of hours to listen to
and read all of the newspaper and news conference archives to come to that
conclusion.crisb; Please answer starfarers question. It is a
good one.sir robin; BYU's national and local relevence is
proven by ESPN alone to be 10 times what your schools is. 10 games
on ESPN this year at 1-2 million per.At least 8 games on ESPN next year.
You can't even compare the two schools BYU is so far ahead. It
wouldn't be fair. Your dream is BYU's reality.
Brave Sir RobinESPN disagrees with you and since they make a ton of
money putting relevance on TV....I would say that your comment is
Ignore the ute trolls like cowardly robin and wedgie. Pretending that BYU, or
its fans, are predicting a National Championship is simply a lie they use to try
and instigate things. But as far as BYU and its fans aspiring to win ANOTHER
national Cham,pionship, well, of course we all do. You see BYU has actually won
one, it isn't pie in the sky, never been there, never even been considered for
it, no chance it will ever happen, impossible and never in a million years, like
it is for utah. It has already happened and it could happen again if things went
just right. I like it as a goal. I like it as something to aspire
to. Reach for the top. Ignore the loser trolls as they have never come close and
even in their teams best years they were never even a consideration for the
National Championship. Actually they were denied even consideration for it with
an amused scorn by those who actually cast votes.LOL!
Hedgehog:In the past decade, michigan has won the Big 10 only twice
(2003 and shared with Iowa in 2004) and the past 3 years they haven't even
sniffed at the championship. They may be budgeting conservatively, but they
certainly are not over delivering.
What is completely lost on those who myopically focus on the BCS is that the AP
National Championship isn't in anyway associated with the BCS. There is no
requirement to jump through any artificial BCS hoops. The only requirement for
winning the AP National Championship is to finish #1 in the Final AP Poll. That's it.--no requirement to play in the BCS championship
game--no requirement to even play in a BCS bowlSimply impress
enough AP voters that you're the most deserving team to be ranked #1 at the end
of the season.BYU did that in 1984.And, BYU has the
schedule to do that again in 2011.Not saying it will happen. But, unlike our short-sighted blogger believes, it's not at all
"unrealistic" to believe that it could happen.
"We are going to lose a few games, but that's okay, because we are in the
PAC-12 and we are amazing no matter what happens. We can still get in the Rose
Bowl with three losses, and that is what our fans are most interested in. They
think getting in and winning a BCS Bowl is better than a National Championship,
so by golly, that's what we'll give them." - K WhittinghamHedge, Michigan can worry about the Big 10 only, because there's no chance
they will lose to those 3 or 4 crappy teams in the pre-season, right? Like
LonestarRunnerStop thinking outside the box!
RE: CougarFaninTXOnly TCU and Utah have a concensus pre-season ranking in
the top 25.TCU has to break in a new quarterback, and Coug fans say Utah
will finish at the bottom of the Pac 12. That translates to "weak
schedule".This is NOT the Texas team that had a dramatic
comeback victory against USC for a championship. Texas 2011 has a 3-way
quarterback battle going on, and they lost 3 cornerbacks to the NFL. BYU's
partner, ESPN, pre-season Big 12 ballot is OU, TAMU, OSU, Mizzou, Baylor, Texas
(6th).The strongest opponent on the schedule is UCF.
"it isn't pie in the sky, never been there, never even been considered for
it, no chance it will ever happen, impossible and never in a million
years,"Ducky,Actually it is. The BCS was created so
this would never happen again. Don't be naive to think that the BCS will do
everything it it's power to discriminate against the Y. They(we) have no
interest in bYu ever being in a BCS game....no matter who you play or what the
@LonestarRunner"it's not at all "unrealistic" to
believe that it could happen"That's like saying a BYU
basketball player could be the Best Male College Athlete of the Year -- totally
I read the Utah and BYU comments. I obviously cheer for the Utes, but am
willing to give credit when due. I also am ready to pull the BS card when I
read something that is not accurate.Messin' w/ Texas -"It's a tougher schedule than Utah has this year."This
simply is not true. Taking a subset of a schedule and claiming that because the
subset is difficult the whole schedule is difficult is faulty logic. On the whole Utah's schedule is more difficult than BYU's this year. Top to
bottom, Utah's schedule is more difficult (only one gimme). You can't ignore
SJSU, NMSU, USU, Idaho, and Idaho State on BYU's schedule (5 gimmes, although
USU might not be a gimmee if history prevails). Those games DRAG your overall
strenght of schedule to the ground. And even though WSU and Colorado might be
gimmes their talent level is vastly superior to BYU's weaker opponents.
Hog - "They(we) have no interest in bYu ever being in a BCS
game....no matter who you play or what the record is."Sorry.
To make a statement like that is hypocritcal. IF BYU earns a BCS appearance, I
see no reason not to let them in a BCS game (note that "IF"). That
being said, history has not been on their side in their quest for a BCS game and
I don't see that changing this year.
Moderate | 1:57 p.m. July 14, 2011 Salt Lake City, UT
"In November when national attention turns to conference races and BCS
standings, wins against the WAC aren't going to impress."Don't
be like that, it is the same competition basically Utah has played and BSU
played and made there ways to the BCS games, oh by the way BSU beating Oklahoma
was a better game than both of Utah's BCS games combined.
Hedgie,"They(we) have no interest in bYu ever being in a BCS
game....no matter who you play or what the record is."Which is
why the BCS(you) are a joke.
DevilishUte | 3:59 p.m. July 14, 2011 Tempe, AZ What about
Montana State this year? That is a division 2 team.
Dear Haters,BYU will win more games than Utah this year. Come on
little doggies, keep nipping at our heels!
RSL"What about Montana State this year? That is a division 2
team."The following was from my earlier post:Top to
bottom, Utah's schedule is more difficult (only one gimme). Montana
St. is the gimme I was referring to, kind sir.
@UtesDevilI hear what you'rs saying, but I still contend the toughest 6 or
7 teams on our schedule will make or break the Cougars and the Utes, not the
bottom 5 or 6 teams. And plain and simle; BYU's top 6 or 7 opponents are better
than Utah's top 6 or 7 opponents.But if that makes you feel better
to know that WSU is ranked #83 and Idaho is ranked #103, I concede - the bottom
five teams on BYU's schedule are weaker than the bottom five teams on Utah's
schedule. Happy?In reality, if either team loses to any of the
bottom five teams on our schedules, we can look forward to sitting home in
December and January instead of bowling.@ModerateThere is no
QB battle at Texas. I'm not sure where you're getting you're information. Take
it from a Texan, Longhorns went into Spring without naming a starter, but
Gilbert was named the unanimous starter after Spring. He's a 5 star recruit.
According to hh, that's all that matters.
hedgy"Don't be naive to think that the BCS will do everything
it it's power to discriminate against the Y."Even if that were
true, the BCS is powerless to prevent BYU from winning an AP national
championship, which is the ultimate goal.
@HedgehogThey(we) have no interest in BYU ever being in a BcS
game....no matter who you play or what the record is."I'd love
to see the BcS deny an undefeated, Top 5 BYU team a BcS bowl invite. It would be the end of the BcS and a huge windfall for BYU and all of the
other non-AQ teams.
I agree BYU shouldn't talk about a National Championship. Mainly because there
is no national championship in college football. All BCS games are just
"money giveaway bowls" that mean nothing other than a fat paycheck.BYU should focus on playing great, entertaining football against top
teams. If they do that TV, money, and national prestige will all take care of
themselves. I do like the fact that independence has given us an
underdog against the world mentality.
CougFaninTX -"It's a far tougher schedule than any non AQ has
had who has made it to a BCS bowl"Compare to 2004 Utah schedule:
Cross off Utah, and TCU which is basically the equivalent of BYU and TCU of 2004
for the Utes and the remaining 3 contests of any consequence are Texas, Ole Miss
and Oregon State. Utah had Texas A&M, UNC and Arizona.Very similar
looking schedules, certainly not "far tougher" as you state. Now
consider that Utah beat their opponents that year by an average of 25.8 pts per
game and no team came closer than 14 points.Compare to 2008 Utah schedule:
Beat Oregon State who had been ranked and beat highly ranked USC that year. Beat
#24 ranked Michigan at the big house, Beat #14 BYU and #11 TCU and #4 Alabama to
cap it off.No one yet knows how BYU's opponents will do this year and that
obviously plays into things, but sorry, as it stands now this schedule is not
nearly as tough as you want to pretend it is.
DevilishUteStrength of schedule only applies to the BCS computer
rankings, which ironically don't even consider margin of victory.SOS, margin of victory, W-L records, road wins, etc. are all a matter of
personal perception for each poll voter. There's no exact formula for winning a
national championship, but an undefeated BYU team would certainly be in the
discussion. With four teams from the SEC, Big 12, and PAC 12, BYU has more BCS
conference opponents on their schedule than any BCS buster has ever had. Add to
that TCU, a team that won the Rose Bowl last year, and UCF, a team that won
C-USA last year and destroyed Georgia in their bowl game, and nobody would be
able to make a legitimate arguement that BYU "didn't play anybody".Way too many variables for anyone to say that BYU has a good chance of
winning a championship this year, but to say that it's "unrealistic"
for BYU to even think they have a chance is unrealistic.
CougFaninTex: "not sure where you're getting your information".From the official sponsor of BYU football, ESPN. They say "I think
Gilbert will end up the starter on opening day, but he'll have a way, way
shorter leash. He has to. None of the other guys got a real shot last year, and
if he struggles early this season, you absolutely have to put Connor Wood or
Case McCoy out there before conference play. You can't just leave him out there
making mistakes and hope it clicks at some point. We've seen enough of him, and
he didn't have a ton of plays last year that really showed flashes of him
turning it around in games."
Hedgehog:Let's willingly suspend our disbelief and take your
statement at face value that UM fans only say "let's win the Big 10"
and not "lets talk about a NC." To win the Big 10, realistically you
need to win all your conference games. The most you can lose is 1, but if you
lose 1 you are at the mercy of the team you lost to losing to someone else that
you beat so you hold the advantage in a tie breaker. So "win the Big
10" is synonymous with "let's win all our conference games" If
you win the Big 10 guess where you go: A BCS bowl. UM's out of conference
schedule is ND and usually another team in Mich. So the goal is to win the Big
10 but not beat ND and C Mich/E Mich? Trust me. UM fans know that if they beat
ND, and win the Big 10 they are in the running for a NC. But your statement
isn't true. UM fired Lloyd Carr. He won 5 Big ten titles, but lost 6 Bowl games.
He's even a HOF coach for Pete's sake. Trust me, UM is after a NC.
motorbikeregular season opponents with winning recordsUtah 2004Texas A&M 7-5at UNM 7-5at Wyo 7-5BYU 1984Tulsa 6-5at Hawaii 7-4at Air Force 8-4at Utah
6-5-1I'll give you Texas A&M at home versus Tulsa at home, but
you'd have a hard time convincing anybody that beating UNM and Wyo on the road,
was tougher than beating Hawaii, Air Force, and Utah on the road.BYU(5-6) beat Utah's toughest road opponent Wyo 24-13 and only lost to UNM
14-21During the WAC era, Utah was only 2-6 at Hawaii:1993 30-41 L1991 26-52 L1989 20-67 L1987 14-25 L1985
29-27 W1984 17-20 L1982 7-10 L1979 27-23 WUtah was
only 1-6 at Air Force:Utah at Air Force1994 33-40 L1992 20-13
W1990 21-52 L1987 27-48 L1985 15-37 L1983 31-33 L
Frankly, though BYU will likely only lose one game (by a very close margin), be
highly respected in the polls, be invited to play in a major bowl game, it
doesn't really matter.BYU will beat Utah (soundly) and lose EVERY
other game, and I'd still consider this a GREAT season. #1 BYU#2 Utah State#3 ABU (Anybody But Utah - i.e., everybody Utah plays)
Desnews:You all SERIOUSLY need to work on your standards in the
comment section. Hedgehog, Howard S., Chris B. and I Still Can't Say IT are
ALWAYS insulting to everyone who likes or is associated with BYU. They are
usually off-topic. But YOU all keep posting every inane comment they type. I gave a RELEVANT and ON-TOPIC comment and you didn't post it simply
because at the end I asked Hedgehog why he keeps talking about people
"sniffing" things?! Give me a break!!!!!!!!! Perhaps you
should all sit down together and discuss what is considered "abusive,
offensive, off-topic." It seems to vary according to who is working that
day. I am NOT impressed.
"Trust me, UM is after a NC." riddlemethis,You know very little about uofm football ( actually nothing).UofM
pushed Loyd out the door for one main reason; He couldn't beat Ohio st.Priorities( realistic) for UofM fans1 Win Big 102 Beat Ohio
State3 Beat Ohio State
@motorbike You're kidding, right?2004Utah didn't
play TCU in 2004.Texas A&M went 7-5. Texas will not be 7-5 in
2011.Arizona won 3 games and 1 was against a DII school.UNC was 6-6
with wins against William and Mary, Duke and Wake Forest. 2008Michigan finished 3-9. Toledo beat the Wolverines by a bigger margin than U.
I'm surprised you even listed them.Oregon St solid but unspectacular,
unranked 8-4TCU was a solid winTCU in 2011 will be comparable
with TCU in 2008 with a young DaltonTexas in 2011 is at least comparable
with Oregon St in 2008, but probably better.Now how do you account
for Ole Miss, UCF and Hawaii on your 2008 schedule?
What?! You honestly refused to print my ON-TOPIC comment, but you have no
problem printing my off-topic rant?! Thank you for so perfectly
illustrating my point. (Insert eyeroll).
Hedgehog:I don't know about UM being in Utah, but you are the
subject matter expert about BYU living in Ann Arbor?If they would
have beat Ohio State, they would have won more Big Ten Titles, and been in the
NC hunt that much more often. Thanks for proving my point.
MI may not have aspired to a NC recently but OSU certainly did. Ditto for Auburn
and OR. Not to mention OK and USC.All of the coaches, the players
and the BYU fans all understand the goal is another NC. It may take 5 years. It
may take 10 years. It may even take another 25 years but that is the goal. Why aspire to less? Under independence BYU will get the
talent and they will have the coaches and the facilities. It is just a question
of when. As BYU gets better they will get better bowl opportunities.
Utah has never won a NC and it is now harder for them in the PAC to
go undefeated. However, they have a reasonable chance of backing into a tie for
the South and scraping by in the PAC playoff into a Rose Bowl. The
Rose Bowl has become the goal for the Utes. Not a bad goal. BYU on
the other hand was never going to get the recruits it needed to get into a BCS
bowl without the coverage that comes with Independence. BYU had to go
Independent to move forward. Aim high. Achieve more.
KatiebuggThe reason is simple: although Desnews purports to monitor
the comment boards to keep people on-topic and courteous, they don't. They WANT
hedgehog and his kinfolk on these comment boards so they will get more comments
and then they (the DN) can then print endless streams of articles wondering why
the "Holy War" (which THEY have dubbed it) is so rude. Simply put, THEY cause the problem so THEY can write about the problem. They
probably censored your comment because they don't want to discourage those rude
individuals who say insulting and false things constantly. They have decided
that they NEED them to stir up contention between the two sides even though most
fans on both sides do not feel this level on animosity toward one another.(Kind of like certain lawyers in a certain book...).
The cougars will do fine. Goals for an undefeated season are great aspirations
but aren't a sign of delusional thinking. Haters see it otherwise but they see
everything from an oddly delusional viewpoint themselves.Go
@Hedgehog,Have we actually lived in the same state of Michigan? Are
you sure you live in Ann Arbor? I spent several years in Michigan, and I
couldn't disagree with you more about Michigan fans "never" talking
about national championships.
@ anti BCS"I'd love to see the BcS deny an undefeated, Top 5
BYU team a BcS bowl invite."Oh they will! I guarantee you that
if TCU or Boise State are undefeated. They will get the automatic bid to the BCS
and not byu. The only way I see byu going to a BCS bowl game is if they're the
only unbeaten non-aq team.
Rockwell -Nice post but why did you direct it to me? All of your
stats and win/loss stuff is great and all but had absolutely nothing to do with
my comment and the conversation in response to CougFaninTX's comment. Sometimes
you Cougar fans are so anxious to argue you forget to read and stay focused.My comment was in response to non BCS automatic qualifiers that made it to a
BCS game and what their schedules looked like in comparison to BYU's schedule
this year.CougFaninTX's original statement was "It's a far tougher
schedule than any non AQ has had who has made it to a BCS bowl."Again, that's BCS bowl not 1984.So start over on your response and good
pac12lovesU: Your comments show that you hate BYU, why would TCU or BSU get a
BCS bid over BYU? The only reason would be if there SOS was tougher, that won't
be the case as TCU & BSU are both in the Mountain and there schedules won't
be as tough.Every team that has a chance to be ranked, set goals to win
every game and the ultimate goal is to win a NC. For Hedge to say Michigan
doesn't think NC or set a goal to achieve that as a goal is ludicrous. All the
top teams have NC as a goal.BYU's schedule is fairly tough but there isn't
any game they have on their schedule they can't win, so having the goal to go
undefeated should be expected. To achieve the goal of going undefeated is tough
and not accomplished all that often but it is still the goal. I would be
disappointed if BYU or Utah or Texas or anyother top notch team didn't have the
goal to go undefeated and win a NC.
CougFaninTX:Let me make my comment more clear. By listing Utah's
bigger name opponents in 2004 and 2008 I was simply comparing how it looked at
the BEGINNING of the year, just as all you Coug fans are doing. In 2004
UNC and Texas A&M were both ranked early in the year. That year even Arizona
was supposed to be better. Point is you are pretending this is a crazy hard BYU
schedule when it doesn't even look as difficult as 2004 did in the beginning for
Utah. Yes it didn't end up looking as good at the end but again...THAT IS MY
POINT. You have no way of knowing how these teams will finish out, they've got
to play the games before you start saying you've got the most difficult non-BCS
schedule ever. Give me a break. And another reminder...avg point margin OVER 25
points! So there's more to it then just wins.Also, love how you had to
conveniently downplay the 2008 part of that discussion where Oregon State was
VERY good, as was BYU. And a win at Michigan in the Big House is always big no
matter how they finish up.
@ motorbike2008 ute schedule was very weak, no matter how you spin
@KatiebuggI think the Deseret News does a fairly good job of
honoring the freedom of speech of its readers in the comment section. I would
hope that freedom of speech is something you value as well -- and comment
sections on on-line newspapers exist to allow folks to voice their opinions --
even if you personally may not agree.That said, I'd like to respond
to the portion of the article about how maybe the Team in Provo shouldn't set
the bar to a national championship just yet. It reminds me a little of the
"Quest" a few years back and look what happened there. If
I were Bronco, I'd first set my sights on winning the WAC championship and then
go from there.
To those of you discussing the monitoring of our comments here (and seemingly
subjective application of the rules)....After years of leaving
comments, I had one denied the other day. It was a bland, vanilla "Hooray,
fellow Idahoan Tanner Mangum is coming to BYU" post on a story about the
Idaho native. I got the denial email, which was generic in nature and gave no
specifics about why they wouldn't post it.I was upset to say the
least. A series of emails resulted in an apology from the Deseret News
Editor-In-Chief, who told me the paper couldn't figure out why it was
"denied," but that I should let him know when I comment so he could
try to figure out how the process failed both me and his newspaper.The problem is that there is five basic no-no's (profanity,name
calling,over-use of punctuation and all caps, comments that are commercial, and
the calling-out other commenters)but the moderators are forced to place their
own subjective views on objective rules. BYU fans seem to be held to
a higher standard than the Ute commenters. They almost lost this reader.
@BluCougWeak schedule in 2008 huh? The Utes beat a Big 10 team on
the road, and after that, took care of business against 3 ranked teams before
beating the pants off of a Top 5 SEC team.No offense taken here. I
think you're a little confused is all, and I'm glad we were able to straighten
this out and set the record straight.Good luck going after that
national championship next year like Bronco promised.
I got a comment rejected the other day. I really don't know why. There really
was not any obvious reason for the rejection that I am aware of. It was just a
typical comment. Far less provoking than most of the the troll comments. I figure it is just part of commenting. A certain percentage get
rejected. However, it would be nice if DN would email the comment back with the
specific parts underlined so that we could edit and resend the comment. It is irritating to put a lot of thought into a comment and then have it
just disappear and it is hours before you realize DN rejected it. A
few underlines would help a lot more than the general rejection guidelines. Further, we don't want to lose the comment. We want to make specific
points and are capable of editing to fit DN's whims.
"Kevin Graham of Sportsmashup.com says here that BYU's national
championship aspirations are unrealistic."This is the same
Kevin Graham who bet his life on the fact that BYU would lose to Oklahoma in
2009. Yeah, Kevin must know more than Bronco....
So, back to BYU football which this article was actually about (Not Utah, not
Michigan, not the DNews editorial policies - although I completely agree that
they are inconsistent in administering their policies). For many of
us who have been BYU fans for a very long time, we have finally reached the
promised land. I have always wanted independence for BYU over conference
affiliation - regardless of the conference. Now we have it but with the
addition of an exclusive ESPN contract and our own state-of-the-art broadcast
facilities. With a great coach who understands the mission, goals and values of
BYU. With a great young, talented, enthusiastic and motivated coaching staff.
With some of the best talent BYU has ever put on the field. With games already
scheduled with several of the most storied football programs in the country.
The opportunity for greatness is here and that's all anyone can ask, to have an
opportunity to demonstrate your ability and to be recognized if you seize the
moment.Go Cougars - your moment is now!
ThomasJeffersonBut you are a Nebraska fan, that explains it all! I
have several Husky friends who still talk about the sportsmanship of Big Red
after the huskies pulled off a rare upset at Nebraska. Stunning! An
entire stadium, decked in red, gave the dawgs a standing ovation. Explanation?
"When you come into our house, and beat our boys, you must be really
good."That's another thing we can aspire to.
Captain L***pac12lovesU: Your comments show that you hate BYU, why would
TCU or BSU get a BCS bid over BYU?***Actually, his comments don't
show that he "hates BYU". SOS has nothing to do with it. It only shows
that he has knowledge of the BCS rules. As a member of the MWC, Boise and TCU
have a guaranteed BCS bowl game if they are the highest ranked team from a
non-AQ conference and are ranked in the top 12. For BYU to get into
a BCS bowl game, they would have to be ranked 1 or 2 to get a guaranteed BCS
game. They could get an at-large bid. But that means that the 2nd SEC, PAC12,
BIG10, or BIG12 school wouldn't get in. Most voters will have 2 schools from at
least 1 of those conferences in the top 5, ie Oregon and Stanford 2010,
Alabama-Florida 2008&2009, Georgia-LSU 2007, ect. So, if TCU or Boise St are
undefeated or just in the top 12 at the end of the year, they get a BCS bowl
game and BYU is out in the cold, even if BYU is ranked higher.
The national champions isn't just a BYU goal. But it was something that Bronco
was pretty much guaranteeing would happen. Although to be fair, he didn't say it
happen this year. However, I agree with the author's main points. 1.
BCS is stacked against BYU. 2. Quest for perfection. Remember 2008?
It put an inordinate amount of pressure and a target on the back of the
players.3. Scheduling: If the Cougars couldn't go unbeaten in it's
MWC days it will be even harder against better competition in the independence
world. 4. Recruiting. Not very many top recruits are going to want
to go to BYU due to Honor Code. If I were the author, I'd add:5. 1984. In 1983, BYU only lost their first game and then won 11 in a row.
Last year, BYU barely won 6 regular season games. So, to win the NC, you'd need
to have a great starting point the year before to springboard you. I
believe that BYU going independent is better for them. They'll get more exposure
and more revenue. But I just don't see an NC in the near future for them. Take
one step at a time.
Kevin's article is more insightful than many of you can appreciate. Please
SERIOUSLY CONSIDER what it says:1. Underpromise, overdeliver.
Setting challenging goals as a team, or fan-base for that matter, doesn't mean
you have to broadcast them to everyone. Doing so gives bulletin board material
to opponents, and makes the program/fans sound arrogant.2. The BCS
system is stacked against BYU. I haven't read/heard anyone other than BYU fans
say otherwise.3. Perfection. This is closely related to #1 above.
Campaigns like "Quest for Perfection" may energize the team and BYU
Faithful, but it also energizes the opponents.4. Scheduling.
"If the Cougars couldn't go unbeaten in it's MWC days it will be even
harder against better competition in the independence world." This
statement prompts a "No Duh" from most readers, but many BYU fans
struggle with it.5. BYU's unique challenges remain. I admire the
Cougars for daring to be unique, but most sports fans/experts believe it imposes
a glass ceiling on BYU's athletic success.Solid concluding
paragraph. Can you appreciate the logic in it?Like I've been saying
for months, "Good luck, Cougars. Except on 17 SEP, of course!"
Undefeated does not mean BCS Championship. Utah, TCU, and BSU know that. Let's
try BCS buster club. And keep Orin Hatch on the hunt too.
There is no national championship. The BCS is a club. The AP poll is a member.
For a non-aq team to say, "let's be National Champions" is to say that
the current system works. Just go undefeated, win a bowl, and embarass the
BCS on TV week after week.
"Have we actually lived in the same state of Michigan? Are you sure you
live in Ann Arbor? I spent several years in Michigan, and I couldn't disagree
with you more about Michigan fans "never" talking about national
championships"hmmm, yes. live close to the Big House...been in
A2 for several years. (not a maize and blue fan...but respect the program) You will never hear a UofM coach, player or media ever mentioning NC
prior to the season...ever. After the Ohio State game? maybe.My
guess is your UofM "fan" actually went to bYu under grad and decided
to get a Masters at a research school.
@Utah95:Very correct on many fronts, and you might add that BYU
Athletics also have their detractors (although they are a SMALL minority) in LDS
Church headquarters, since there are those that wish to discontinue college
football and big-time athletics in Provo. ..Like in Rexburg, ID just over a
decade ago. While the Pac-12 would NEVER take BYU due to their limited scope in
doctoral level post-graduate work, the Big-12 if anything might not like such
detracting talk from a small yet highly powerful minority in the governing board
of BYU. I would say this is a MUCH BIGGER factor than the strict no Sunday play
policy BYU has in keeping them out of a BCS league. This as much as anything is
the glass ceiling BYU has created for itself. I think the athletic department
will outlive its opponents and detractors from within, but BYU must successfully
gain n invitation to a BCS-AQ league if they want the athletics future they
desire for the mission of the school. Trying the Notre Dame route a century
later wont work.
Razzle2"The BCS is a club. The AP poll is a member."The AP poll divorced itself from the BCS years ago. The AP won't even
allow their poll to be used in the BCS rankings calculations, which is why the
Harris Poll is now used instead of the AP poll. USC won an AP National
Championship in 2003 without playing in the bogus championship game. And, unlike
the Coaches poll, which requires coaches to vote for the winner of the bogus
championship game as the national champion, AP voters are free to use any
criteria that they deem fit in selecting who they think should be #1.In other words, NONE of the artificial, bogus championship series rules apply
to selecting the AP National Champion. All that is required is to finish #1 in
the AP poll, which for all their BcS chest beating, is the only poll Utah fans
refer to when talking about their final rankings in 2004 and 2008.Funny how that works. The Utes spam endlessly about the bogus championship
series, but when in comes to talking about their final ranking, the Utes
completely ignore the official BcS poll, the Coaches poll.
It seems that many of our friends on the hill are afraid of setting the bar too
high for fear of failure and ridicule.Frankly, I'm proud that the
program that I support isn't afraid...To dream ... the impossible
dream ...To fight ... the unbeatable foe ...To bear ... with
unbearable sorrow ...To run ... where the brave dare not go ...To
right ... the unrightable wrong ...To love ... pure and chaste from afar
...To try ... when your arms are too weary ...To reach ... the
unreachable star ... This is my quest, to follow that star ... No matter how hopeless, no matter how far ... To fight for the right,
without question or pause ... To be willing to march into Hell, for a
Heavenly cause ... And I know if I'll only be true, to this glorious
quest, That my heart will lie will lie peaceful and calm, when I'm
laid to my rest ... And the world will be better for this: That one
man, scorned and covered with scars, Still strove, with his last ounce of
courage, To reach ... the unreachable star ...Good luck
Cougars on your National Championship quest!
I'll bet in six year byu will have been to more BCS games than anyone else.
"In other words, NONE of the artificial, bogus championship series rules
apply to selecting the AP National Champion. All that is required is to finish
#1 in the AP poll, which for all their BcS chest beating, is the only poll Utah
fans refer to when talking about their final rankings in 2004 and 2008."skycrawler,Thanks again for your diatribe (we've heard it ad
nauseum). Here's what's different than '84. The BCS requires the top two teams
to play at the end of the year...clearly not the case in '84. The LAST thing
they want is to have a non member in that game.Yes, the kewgs
"could" win the mega millions lotto gain but so could Idaho St.
As much is said about post graduate schools and phd etc. What on earth does that
have to do with a conference selecting a member. How many of the players at U,
and all go on to post grad work. I just don't buy it. I remember a joke that was
being made about a football player who was completing his masters in his senior
year of eligability, he was giving a bad name to football players, most couldn't
spell football. I don't think that is true but the point being that post grad
schools really don't recruit or recieve players that are looking to post grad
work.Nothing wrong with the schools, Stanford, the Ivy league etc.
have higher gpa requirements then most. Just don't believe the rejection of BYU
was because of a post grad school.I recall the first time the y
played at ND, they came back and reported that the ND fans were the class of the
nation. Treated the y fans and team like royalty. Maybe we can take a lesson
from them, I am sure that some of it is the result of it being private,
hedgehog"The BCS requires the top two teams to play at the end
of the year..."Then how do explain USC, ranked #1 in BOTH the
AP and Coaches polls at the end of the regular season in 2003, NOT playing in
the BCS championship game???*crickets*Even though the
Coaches were forced to vote for the winner of the BCS championship game, the AP
voters were smart enough to award the national championship to USC, which was
clearly more deserving than LSU.
Mountainman56: I agree with your 11:50 pm comments, I'm glad BYU is independent
and I don't see why so many people want us to get hooked up with a BCS conf.. I
don't. In the past (both WAC & Mnt) we would play a couple of top
quality teams during the yr and usually end up with a bowl game against a BCS
school, it would depend on how we were ranked and how they were ranked as to
whether or not the game was of any importance. Winning a conf. championship was
nice and a good goal but how we ended up in the national ranking was always more
important to me. National recognition is what it is all about.Being
independent we will be able to play more top quality teams every yr. In the past
a game against ND or Texas may come during the yr but it may not come until the
bowl game now we will be playing several bowl like games every yr and with the
quality of players we now have, I think being in the top 10 or higher is a legit
goal. There isn'tagame thisyr we can't win.
hedgehogThere's absolutely NO DIFFERENCE between the way the AP
selected BYU as the national champion in 1984 and USC as the national champion
I Still Can't Say ItI'm sure Katiebugg as also for freedom of speech
-- if it is actually given to all.
TrueBlueThose lyrics remind me of...1974, when BYU
started the season 0-3-1, before winning their next 7 games to win the WAC
championship and play in their first bowl game,1980, when Jim
McMahon trotted back onto the field on 4th down with BYU trailing by 20 points
with 6 minutes left in the game, to lead BYU to their first bowl win,1983, when Steve Young caught the winning touchdown pass over the outstretched
fingers of a would be defender, to cement BYU's first Top 10 finish, and set
up1984, when Robbie Bosco, on a leg he could barely stand on, led
BYU to a come-from-behind victory over Michigan, to seal BYU's first National
Championship.Champions are forged in the crucible of adversity,
often amidst a sea of doubters, but when they emerge victorious, the victory is
that much sweeter.
"This is the same Kevin Graham who bet his life on the fact that BYU would
lose to Oklahoma in 2009."To be fair, Kevin Graham didn't know
BYU had a play called "Coleby Clawson take out Sam Bradford".
@ Starfarer"If the future of Utah football is Utah...How come it's not going to be on TV?"The answer is simple. TV
exposure does not equal football success. Just look at Michigan's recent
history. Michigan is the most televised football program in NCAA history,
however, in recent years it hasn't helped much. (7-6 (2010), 5-7 (2009), 3-9
(2008)) The obvious difference between Michigan's situation and
BYU's is that Rich Rodriguez did Michigan no good, whereas Bronco has proven
that he can produce a good football team year after year. However, he has not
yet been able to produce a great football team. The difference between a good
team and a great team is decided by only a few games, 10-2 is a good team, 12-0
is a great team.Do you honestly think that just because BYU's games
are on tv, they will be able to bridge that gap? Be honest with yourselves, it's
going to take more than that. I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm just saying
that Bronco has to change something, or else BYU will never reach a BCS bowl
under his command.
@afroNice spin but you fail. Of course being on tv doesn't assure
anyone of being any good in the future, being on tv represents the reputation
you've built up over time. Obviously BYU has done that and that is why they have
10 games that will be on ESPN this coming season. So obviously being on tv does
equal success as past success is the reason teams are put on tv. I
think that BYU being on national tv every single week will make it alot more
likely that they will use that publicity to improve their program through better
recruiting, more fans, etc. than it is likely that utah being a run of the mill
pac10 team that is almost never on tv will be able to become "the future of
football in utah". But I highly doubt anyone beleives that
simply being on tv in the future guaranties any sort of future success, we all
just realize it is one more factor, among many, that helps make future success
more likely. If you are honest with yourself you'll be able to see it for what
it is. But thanks for trying to set us all straight.
afro14A straw man is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation
of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the
illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially
similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting
it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.Increased television exposure was BYU's main goal in going independent, but
with that increased exposure comes increased awareness of BYU football, which
could attract recruits that might not have considered BYU in the past, and
increase BYU's prospects for winning.What fundamental thing does
Bronco have to change in order to improve from 11-2 to 13-0?In 2006,
BYU lost at Arizona 13-16 and at Boston College 23-30. In both of those games,
one or two plays could have changed the outcome.In 2007, BYU lost at
UCLA 17-27 and at Tulsa 47-55. Once again, BYU was well within striking distance
of turning losses into wins.On the other hand, if TCU's kicker
hadn't missed 2 very makeable FG tries (he only missed four FGs all season),
Utah doesn't have a chance to play Alabama in the Sugar Bowl.
"So obviously being on tv does equal success as past success is the reason
teams are put on tv."Ducky,All I know is that
outside of the OK game... bYu has lost every "national" tv game the
past couple of years. Check out you' record on Versus....its great.
ModerateTo be fair, Kevin Graham didn't know that BYU had a defense
that was capable of shutting down Oklahoma's Heisman Trophy winning
quarterback.Bradford was 10 of 14, 96 yds, 1 TD, before he was
injured just before halftime. Nice completing percentage, but as the yardage
indicates, most of his passes were short yardage dumpoffs, that were quickly
smothered by BYU's defense.The game was tied 7-7 when Colby buried
Bradford on a clean hit.
@wedgieWell since BYU won't be spending much time on versus any
longer I'll just go ahead and consider that run over with. Now utah on the
otherhand......well they probably won't be on versus much either as that is
reserved for teams the pac12 actually wants to put on tv but not showcase. In
the case of utah they neither want to put them on tv or showcase them. But just
think if the subscription only pac10 network ever does actually come into being
utah will be broadcast to litterally 10's of homes in the Salt Lake Valley as
the rest of the pac10 fans will all be over on versus watching usc and oregon
play every week. Of course they'll be on versus because BYU will be hogging all
the airtime on ESPN.
hedgehog"All I know is that outside of the OK game... BYU has
lost every "national" tv game the past couple of years."Then you have very selective memory.The same year, 2009, that BYU
beat Oklahoma in Cowboys Stadium, BYU DESTROYED then #16-ranked Oregon State
44-20 in the Las Vegas Bowl on ESPN so badly, that it knocked the Beavers
completely out of the final polls.Feel free to try to spin that an
ESPN-televised bowl game was not on "national" TV or that December
2009 wasn't within the last couple of years.btw, the game wasn't
nearly as close as the final score might indicate. BYU led 37-7 before OSU's
starters scored a couple of 4th quarter TDs against BYU's 3rd stringers.
Instead of a national championship goal, which is beyond any non-AQs control
with the rules in place, the better goal would be for an undefeated season.
That they CAN control. If somehow the perfect storm of everyone else losing
happens for the Cougars again along with going undefeated, good for them. But
to make such a remote possibility your stated goal is setting yourself up for
failure every time.
phoenix,ByU was 1-3 in National games last year- role that out to a
full season and that's a four wins/ seven loses.BYu was 2-2 in
National gams in 2009 - role that out to a full season and that's 6 -6
ThleteWhy set the goal at something less than a national
championship?It's true, BYU can't control all of the variables, but
then, neither can any other major college football team.If the SEC,
Big Ten, Big 12, and PAC 12 champions are all undefeated at the end of the
regular season, the reality is, NONE of them controls their own destiny. Two of
them will be left out of the bogus championship game, and both of those teams
will be powerless to do anything about it. The chances of an ACC or Big East
team sneaking into the bogus championship game are even smaller.BYU
has a higher hurdle to clear than AQ teams, but until we get rid of the bogus
championship series and institute a true playoff, NOBODY has complete control of
their own destiny.
"Well since BYU won't be spending much time on versus any longer I'll just
go ahead and consider that run over with"Ducky,And
just like "magic" the winning will begin on ESPN? BYU was lost all
five games on Nationally televised Versus over the last two years.
"BYU was 2-2 in National gams in 2009"Nice spin, hedgy,
but your statement was..."outside of the OK game... BYU has
lost EVERY "national" tv game the past COUPLE of years.Oregon State was a National TV game and it was within the past couple of
years, and BYU not only beat, but destroyed the Beavers.Extrapolate
this:Utah hasn't won a road game against a PAC 10 team with a
winning record since 1996, including losses at lowly UCLA(6-7) 10-31, at lowly
Arizona(4-8) 17-23, and at lowly California(3-8) 21-24.How do expect
Utah to ever compete for a PAC 12 title if Utah can't beat 3-8 teams on the
@hedgehog"And just like "magic" the winning will
begin on ESPN?"That makes as much sense as the Utes suddenly
starting to win conference championships now that they've moved from the MWC to
the PAC!!!You do realize, don't you, that Utah has only won SIX
conference championships in the last SIXTY YEARS, and that Kyle has only won ONE
conference title in six years in the supposedly much weaker MWC???But now, suddenly, the Utes are going to be perennial conference title
contenders in a much stronger conference, simply because the Utes perceive
themselves to be one of the "big boys" now???Utah fans
need to do a little research to see how successful Arizona State and Arizona
have been since they left the WAC conference to join the PAC 12.30
years since joining the PAC 10, the Wildcats have yet to smell the Roses, and
one-time WAC bully ASU has only been twice.
Hey hedgehog,I wish I had a day off to come and visit you down there
in Ann Arbor. I am currently in the UP for my job near Marquette. It would be
cool to be able to put a face to the name of the most outspoken BYU sports
troll. Think of it, we could get a photo of two polar opposites shaking hands,
both of us smiling. Me, the shameless BYU shill, and you, the the ever-present,
faithfully adverse BYU troll. I could then send out a link to the photo so
everyone can see.
"And just like "magic" the winning will begin on ESPN?"It did in 1984 hedgehog -- September 1st, 1984, BYU at Pittsburgh was
the FIRST nationally televised college football game on ESPN!Four
months later, BYU was selected concensus national champions by all five major
college football selecting organizations.
I just want to ask BYU fans a question. Would you rather be independent, or
would your rather be in the Big 12 or Pac 12? If you would rather be in a big
conference, then you have to admit you have a little envy about the U of U.Good luck on your independence, it will be hard. If BYU loses one game,
BCS hopes are over, whereas a loss in conference to a quality opponent could be
overlooked. I am sure the schedule will be better in the future, but it will be
tough not having the goal of winning a conference if the overall championship
dream goes away early with a loss, and the back half is not really thrilling
this year. I know the money will be better, but I don't know if it will be
better than staying in the MWC. I predict BYU trying to get back to the MWC in
3-5 years.Good luck, and Weber State will beat up on Idaho State for
you the week before they come down to Provo!
Wildcat ESPN is better than the MTN, which is the main reason BYU
left to MWC to go Independent. How that move compares to being in the PAC 12 is
irrelevant because BYU wasn't given that option.You can predict all
you want to, but BYU has zero interest in ever returning to the MTN or the Las
Vegas Invitational.The money is only a small consideration. Nearly
unlimited access to BYU sports for BYU fans throughout the world and vastly
improved national exposure, will keep BYU independent until the Big 12 comes
calling or the major college football landscape changes and a playoff is
instituted.btw, BYU was getting about $1.3m per year from the MWC
for all BYU sports combined.BYU is getting $1m to $2.5m per football
game as an Independent. Why would BYU even consider giving up its partnership
with ESPN to return to the MTN?
Wildcat "I just want to ask BYU fans a question. Would you rather be
independent, or would your rather be in the Big 12 or Pac 12?"----------------------To be honest, I think you would find the cougar
fan base split. Both options have their pros and cons but I'm all for
independence and am excited for the season to start. I hope BYU and Utah BOTH
do extremely well.
The truth is the team in Provo is hardly independent. It's just traded one
master for another when it said goodbye to the MWC. ESPN will now dictate its
every move when it comes to football and football scheduling.In
other words, team in Provo will need to win and win big -- or ESPN will lose
interest fast -- and everything will come crashing down in Utah County.
I Still Can't Say It "ESPN will now dictate its every move when
it comes to football and football scheduling."Hardly. BYU and
ESPN have a very good working relationship and BYU is free to turn down any
offer that ESPN presents. Lots of teams want to play BYU, but Holmoe is being
very careful not to overschedule.BYU will undoubtedly take some
lumps along the way, but a team that has been a perennial Top 25 program for the
last 34 years isn't suddenly going to take a nose-dive into the abyss. BYU
survived the Crowton and returned very quickly to being a Top 25 program.
Like I said earlier, I prefer staying independent.
Bottom line is you are still a non AQ school and will continue to be mired in
mediocrity for years to come.
@True Blue and Ravenal,Thanks for responding. I have just looked at
past teams and their experience. I know every situation is different, and it
might make a little more sense with BYU, but USU went independent a few years
ago (my dad's a fan) and it really was lame, so lame they joined the Sun Belt.
Scheduling difficulties was a big issue as conference teams didn't have later
dates open, bigger schools want a 2 for 1 setup or just to schedule you at their
home. Yeah, I know BYU has better money and facilities so that they
are better fitted to handle costs and get exposure which should help scheduling
but even Notre Dame has the fillers. Penn State ended up joining a conference
because it was not beneficial. Notre Dame other than the one-year BCS has been
mired in mediocrity. I think it will hurt recruiting. The MTN is terrible, but
the overall strength of a conference might be worth enduring it.Hope
it works out, and I hope they just get a playoff. That's the beauty of I-AA
football, no controversy or politics, it's settled on the field. Have a nice
Like Coach Bronco said this week, BYU is on a quest.Mark this one
down. The Blue WILL win a national championship in the next few years with Sir
Jake leading the team. With all the televised games on national TV,
the BCS won't be able to deny us -- no way no how! -- if we have an undefeated
season or even a 1 loss season.
"Penn State ended up joining a conference because it was not
beneficial."Wildcat,Good point. Penn State has one
of largest alumi bases and a storied football tradition in the Nation. They
chose to join an elite conference only a couple years after winning the National
Championship (before the BCS). The administration saw the writting on the wall
when the BCS was formed and made the prudent decision to accept the invite from
the BIG10.Significant finacial overtures are being offered to ND to
join the BIG10 and a few power plays if the don't....including elimiating the
ability to play BIG10 opponents.Like Penn state, I suspect ND will
follow suite and join the BIG10 within the next five years.
Being on TV makes a huge difference for BYU. It dramatically improves their
recruiting. The difference between being buried on the MTN and being
on ESPN/BYUTV is like a different universe. It helps both LDS and especially non
LDS recruiting.MI being on TV does not improve their recruiting as
it is already maxed. The MTN was a boat anchor around BYU's neck.
ESPN is much more of a partnership that has mutual benefits. The MTN did not
The BCS is under strain and will be forced to modify its rules. Further, it is
likely to expand and add a Bowl in the new Jerry Dome. BYU's
relationship with ESPN is being ignored by Utah fans. ESPN will will
televise all BCS championship games from January 2011 through January 2014. Further, ESPN has exclusive television, radio, digital, international
and marketing rights for the Fiesta, Orange and Sugar Bowls from 2011-2014.I suspect that IF BYU can do well in 2011-2014 they will get favorable
consideration for a BCS bowl. The ESPN tie in makes a BYU BCS bid
much easier than the Utes are making out. ESPN will build interest
in BYU all year long and have a vested interest in having BYU in a BCS bowl. Even a close loss may be over looked in a decent schedule. Two losses would be too many I suspect. Maybe (I doubt it) but BYU
could meet Utah in the Rose bowl some day (LOL).
"Penn State has one of largest alumi bases and a storied football tradition
in the Nation."And Penn State was shut out of a national
championship with several undefeated seasons. Proof that being undefeated isn't
the only factor in winning a national championship.
@Bugoff:If the numbers on ESPN are what they think they will be for
BYU will likely see them invited to the Big-12 before 2014...especially if Texas
RE: BugoffUte fans are not ignoring the ESPN relationship. Cougar fans
are putting too much in to it. Are you implying that because ESPN has broadcast
rights to the big bowl games, they have influence on who plays in those
games??Being on ESPN will help BYU in ways that being on The Mtn
could not. True.But remember that MANY teams are on ESPN, not just
BYU. In November, local fans will switch to ESPN2 to watch Idaho and NMSU, but
national fans won't. They'll pick an SEC game on CBS, a Big 12 game on ABC, or
"the good game" on ESPN1.Boise State was on ESPN last
year. They finished with one loss and a number 10 ranking, yet they did not get
a BCS bid. Being on ESPN does not give the Cougars a free pass. As an
independent, it is harder for them to earn a BCS bid than if they stayed in the
MWC. Its tough. You have to earn the bid on the field. You don't earn it
because you're on TV.
Moderate Your points are well taken. My position is somewhat in
the middle. Being on ESPN will help BYU extensively. Getting to a BCS bowl as an
independent is more difficult in ways than being in a non BCS conf
(technically). However, the affiliation with ESPN will help. Nothing is
automatic. If BYU had stayed in the MTN and Utah and TCU had left,
BYU would still have to compete with BSU for the conf. BYU is still playing Utah
and TCU (and BSU in the future). If BYU can't beat them then BYU will probably
not sniff the BCS.However, with out independence BYU would never be
able to get the athletes who are required to make a BSC run. BYU's NC was won on
the backs of good non LDS athletes (as well as a core of LDS ones). The Church
is bigger now but BYU still does not get some of the very best LDS athletes nor
enough great non LDS ones. Independence is the only way BYU will
ever get the talent it has to have to compete. I think the BCS will
modify its rules. ESPN could facilitate that a bit.
TCU will have just as hard of time getting into the NC game from the Big East as
they did from the MTN. The perceived SOS is not going to be any better from the
Big East even if it is a BCS conf. TCU will have a much easier time
getting into a BCS bowl. The same is true for Utah. However Utah
will have a harder time getting into a NC game mainly because their schedule is
going to be somewhat harder. Since BYU could not go undefeated in
the MTN with the talent they had, the increased exposure of independence is
worth much more to them than conf access to a BCS bowl. BYU was not
likely to get the talent needed to make a BCS bowl while in the obscurity of the
MTN.It was time for BYU to move past the Intermountain region and
become a true national power. I am not convinced that Big 12
inclusion is worth more than independence to BYU. How likely is BYU to go
undefeated if they have to play TX, A&M, OK and OKST most every year? BYU can dial back some with independence if needed.
@hedgehag "...reality is not part of the bYu mindset....never
has been... It's almost like if you pray hard enough it will come true."Reality is not part of the Ute mindset... It's almost like losing to big
teams 7-47, 3-28 and 3-26 in 2010 and expecting to play in the Rose Bowl in
@classless ute fan"4. Recruiting. Not very many top recruits
are going to want to go to BYU due to Honor Code."1- 5-star QB
Jake Heaps2- 4-star Texas HS WR Ross Apo3- 4-star RB Joshua
"Juice" Quezada4- Former USC player Uona KeivengaI'm
sure kids like these would never come to BYU.
RE: BugoffWe're on the same page on many thoughts.There is
national interest in BYU going football independent. It is the right move for
them, and people want to see them succeed at it, not just "play well, and
hope to get picked up by an AQ conference".Will be interesting
to see what BCS does about BYU qualification. Easy fix is to lump them in with
the non-AQ confs (MWC, WAC, etc). I don't see them getting a Notre Dame rule,
because the BCS should address all current and future independent schools. The
nightmare scenario under current rules is BYU having an undefeated season, but
still getting passed over by the BCS.I like the idea of expanding to
include the Cotton Bowl played at Jerry's house. I think Mr Jones has the
facility and the money to pull that off. The Cotton Bowl was one of the premier
bowls before the BCS. That would be 12 BCS slots, and one could almost start
sneaking in a playoffs...
Moderate"Boise State was on ESPN last year. They finished with
one loss and a number 10 ranking, yet they did not get a BCS bid."BSU didn't make it to a BCS bowl last year, but ESPN did demonstrate its
ability to shuffle bowl lineups by arranging the BSU - Utah matchup in the Las
Vegas Bowl.Also, BSU was only part of a conference contract with
ESPN, not quite as close of an arrangement as the partnership BYU and ESPN have
created. ESPN is heavily involved in helping BYU schedule big name opponents.
ESPN owns seven bowl games and broadcast 29 of the 33 bowl games
last season. If BYU has a successful season and ESPN feels that BYU would be an
attractive team in a BCS bowl, it wouldn't be at all surprising that ESPN would
use its influence behind the scenes to ensure that BYU is invited as an at-large
team to one of the BCS bowls.
@Moderate"I like the idea of expanding to include the Cotton Bowl
played at Jerry's house. I think Mr Jones has the facility and the money to pull
that off."Significant pressure is already being put on the BCS
and Big12 to make this happen. The Big12 had a contract with Jerry to play the
Big12 Conference Championship game in Jerry's house. Now with only 10 teams,
that game won't happen. Jerry will forgive the Big 12 contract breach if he
gets a BCS game. If not, he will look to collect millions from the Big 12 for
breach of contract which could leave the conference reeling.
"Big12 Conference Championship game in Jerry's house."That
would be sweet. Texas and OU hate the CCG because it gave other teams (KSU) a
lucky shot to steal the title. Fans hated the CCG because most often it was
played at Arrowhead Stadium. In December. At night. Horrible, horrible,
idea.Now if Jerry can lure Arkansas out of the SEC... but then
again, if you're not a Razorback fan, that "call the hogs" thing is
Texas has opposed a CCG in the past, but when the ACC, SEC, Big Ten and PAC 12
are all playing CCGs and raking in the cash this November, and the Big 12 is
sitting on the sidelines feeling left out of all of the hype, it wouldn't be
surprising to see the Big 12 have a change of heart and want to be part of the
action again.What would really put pressure on the Big 12 is seeing
Nebraska playing in the Big Ten CCG and parlaying a win into a BCS championship
game matchup against an SEC team, with an undefeated or one-loss Texas or
Oklahoma being left out of the mix.
"4. Recruiting. Not very many top recruits are going to want to go to BYU
due to Honor Code."1- 5-star QB Jake Heaps2- 4-star Texas
HS WR Ross Apo3- 4-star RB Joshua "Juice" Quezada4- Former
USC player Uona Keivenga"I'm sure kids like these would never
come to BYU. Recommend "Cougar indy,hmmm, you
listes four players....You do realize ND has over 60 four/five star
players on their team? Even with special indepentent "rules" they've
yet to win a BCS game. And you want to talk National Championships?
hedgy"You do realize ND has over 60 four/five star players on
their team?"And guaranteed, USC, UCLA, Oregon, and Stanford
will always have dozens more four/five star players than Utah.So how
do you expect Utah to ever legitimately compete for a PAC 12 title?With a special ND BCS rule, the Irish have played in THREE BCS bowls and
reaped the cash rewards. And cash rewards, as we've seen from the posts of the
vast majority of Utah bloggers is what the BCS is all about anyway.
"So how do you expect Utah to ever legitimately compete for a PAC 12
title?"Lie Machine,Dude, the difference is kewg
fans predict National Championships that in all practical purposes could never
happen....even with an undefeated season. Utah fans talk about the chance to
win the PAC South and play for the chance to get into the rose bowl. Big
difference.BYU would need to defeat elite BCS programs (on the road)
win every home game and pray that every BCS team has atleast two loses (mabye
three).Utah need only to have a better conference record than CO.
AS. AS. St and UCLA....four teams. Do that and they play for a BCS Bowl.
hedgehogNice dodge; but since you're the blogger who's always so
obsessed with stars, why don't you try answering the question:"So how do you expect Utah to ever legitimately compete for a PAC 12
title if other PAC 12 teams are loaded with a lot more four/five star
players?"Or are you ready to finally admit that stars next to a
players name on some recruiting site really aren't as big a deal as you would
like everyone to believe.
@Wildcat"a loss in conference to a quality opponent could be
overlooked."You are right. UConn proved that even an 8-4 team
can make it to a BCS bowl. What a disgrace since the BCS pretends that the most
elite teams are playing in the BCS bowls. There were 40 teams who were more
deserving of playing in a "Top Tier Bowl" last year. Proving that
just because a team makes it to a BCS bowl doesn't necessarily mean they are
really that good. At least the BCS should add a condition that the Conference
automatic qualifier must be ranked in the Top 25.@Wildcat"I predict BYU trying to get back to the MWC in 3-5 years."It will never happen. The bridge is burned. I think Independence will work
out just fine, but if it doesn't . . . there's a chance the Big 12 could come
calling, I believe the Big East would take BYU as a football only (even though
the rumors were denied, there was some truth there), or BYU would rejoin the WAC
before they would go the the MWC. Or they could pull schools from the WAC and
MWC and start a new conference.
Well fellow posters this wil be my last comment on the D news. I must say it's
been a pleasure debating back with you BYU and Utah fans over the last year or
two. May both your teams thrive and maybe someday your team will suit up against
the Might Trojans in the PAC 12 Championship or NC. God Speed! . . . I'm out! Oh
and Utah you might wanna play zone against THEE Robert Woods!
@CougFaninTXYeah, I would think the MWC would not want to bring them
back since they left them, but the fact that BYU is a good program may make them
swallow their pride. I heard rumors that the WAC was trying to steal away SDSU,
UNLV and Air Force, but the MWC was quicker to the punch in taking Nevada and
Fresno State. That's too bad, I think a strong WAC would have been ideal. I
don't know if these teams will want to jump ship in the future; you never
know.I just have a hard time seeing the Big 12 taking BYU. They
play basketball and championships on Sunday, and I have a tough time seeing them
change their rule. I would see the Big East football only more likely, but the
geographic location thing is a stretch with TCU to begin with.If the
NCAA finally goes to a playoff, BYU might want to rejoin the MWC because I am
sure all conference champions will get an automatic invite, and it would be
tougher to get an at large as an independent. We will have to see. I still
think USU and SJSU go the MWC eventually.
Leave it to the "below average" to tell BYU to aim for the middle
(LOL).When will this guy go back to Michigan? Can't be soon enough.
Hey Hedgehog - Tell us when Michigan hires a coach that has actually defeated
AP Poll does occasionally go to a different champion from the BCS. But in 1984,
the coach's poll did go to BYU also, along with the Helms Foundation.
Check w/Reality.BYU has won more games in the past 35 years than all but 9
other FBS programs.BYU plays in the 35th largest OC stadium in the country
and last year, without selling out in a mediocre season still ranked 27th in
total fan support, larger than 41 BCS level programs. BYU was selling out
45,000 seat Cougar Stadium regularly from 1976-1981,back when a guy named
Gifford Neilson was tossing pigskins around in Provo...Utah has yet to
sell out 45,600 seat RES for three consecutive seasons...ever. BYU has
been averaging close to 64,000 fans a game since then. BYU first appeared
on ESPN in 1984, which was in fact ESPN's first ever national regular season
broadcast of an NCAA football game...ever. BYU isn't watched by millions
of Mormons. It is watched by millions of football fans, mainly because it's fun
to watch. BYU owns a National Championship, a Heisman, Two Outlands, 4
Davy O'brian Awards (no other school has won more than three), a Doak Walker
winner. Knock on BYU.It hasn't been to a BCS Bowl. Big
deal!Those are the realities.