BCS game - check(twice)BCS win - check(twice)BCS
conference - checkBCS quality athletes - checkBCS
quality coaching staff - checkThe future of football in Utah, is
"Exposure." "Relevance." "Exposure. Exposure.
Exposure."See, we can say buzz words too. Thank goodness we
don't get as caught up in them as others.
Jordan Wynne can't be on the cover because the trolls made sure to let everyone
know what an exclusive honor it was that heaps was on the cover.
@MESOUTEAnd yet, here you are on an article about your team,
focusing on mine. It looks like perhaps you DO get caught up in them.=====Congratulations to Wynn. I hope you do well this season in your new
"relevance" is not a buzz word for BYU, unless it was used in the
early 1980's. the relevent non aq teams from the last decade, tcu, bsu, and utah
have all been invited to upgrade leages, been undefeted, been to bcs bowls won
bcs bowls - and in utah's case, won 9 bowl games, beat more bcs schoos, and had
best winning % against them of any non aq. Oh and all three of those schools
have better records against ranked opponants and BCS teams than BYU. LOL."exposure" is not a buzz word for BYU, unless it is intended
to describe byu playing thier weakest SOS in decades (112 out of 120 according
to phil steel's website).What those words mean to Utah fans:Relevance- reaching the top 5 of the polls 3 times over last 7 years
(byu's last top 10 appearance? 1996) finishing in the top 4 twice. Two bcs
bowls/wins, nine bowl wins (best in nation)crushing ranked bcs opponants.
Getting the HUGE pac-12 invite.Exposure- pac 12 staduims on the
road, pac 12 teams at home, auto bcs bid, at least 9 national tv games/year
starting 2012.REALITY for Ute's- not buzz words
I thought you had to be an "All American" candidate to get on a cover.
I thought unless you were zoobieTV you could not get recognition. I thought
unless you win the New Mexico Bowl, you couldn't get any props. What a surprise!
It is cool that Wynne made it but I am willing to bet that there is
an Oregon guy on the cover in Oregon and a USC guy in So Cal. Marketing is a
In Stitches:Not exactly focused on your team. Rather pointing out the
absurdity of the buzz words that come out of the Provo football offices and how
that particular team's advocates eat them up and regurgitate the same buzzwords
to no end. Tell me I am wrong. Do BYU fans not use those same
buzzwords (exposure and relevance)on 75% of their posts (if not more)?
In other news, Lindy's also published the latest football lines:UtahUSC 8UtahBYU 2.5ASU 2UtahUtahPitt 4Dismal season ahead - check
@ Snack Pack:What shall we do? I guess we shouldn't even play those games
where we are underdogs, correct? After all, the outcome is already etched in
stone. Give me a break.
Irrelevance is losing regularly to teams like Colorado State, Wyoming, and New
Mexico, and getting crushed by UNLV 0-27!Irrelevance is, even in
your best decade EVER, not being able to finish in the Top 25 as often as that
team down south.Irrelevance is still not having a single national
individual award winner, national championship, or player inducted into the
national college football hall of fame after 117 years of football mediocrity.
BYU fans love to use the word jealous too. They are funny!
the runnin' utes are the best thing since sliced bread.
snack pack"Irrelevance is losing regularly to teams like
Colorado State, Wyoming, and New Mexico, and getting crushed by UNLV
0-27!"Or losing to USU 31-16 (and it wasn't even that close)
and being the 3rd best team in the state last year?"Irrelevance
is, even in your best decade EVER, not being able to finish in the Top 25 as
often as that team down south."I'd rather have 2 BCS wins under
my belt in that same decade than NONE (Quest 4 Perfection = Fail!).Utah has won 6 of last 9. Wynn 1 Hypes 0!
hedgehog"Jordan Wynne can't be on the cover..."KamUte"It is cool that Wynne made it..."Who's Wynne?By the way, Athlon published six PAC 12 covers:Arizona/Arizona StateCalifornia/StanfordColoradoUCLA/USCUtahWashington/Oregon/Oregon StateObviously,
one for every area where the magazine will appear on newstands.It's
nice that Athlon picked Jordan for the Salt Lake market.
MESOUTE"I guess we shouldn't even play those games where we are
underdogs, correct?"You'll have to discuss that with hedgehog,
because according to him, the odds makers know more about college football than
the poll voters so the early lines are more important than the pre-season polls.
Pac man,so your cherry picked - "irrelevant" facts weigh
more heavily than the long extensive list of proofs that Utah can sight (about
the dominating relevant postion in 21st centurey college football)? You notice I did not mention specific (pathetic) losses that byu had in my
argument, because that would not be logical. Those stats have no relevance or
strength. I suppose you think all byu's final rankings averaged from
the 2000's is higher than utah's average final rankings from the 2000's? Get a
clue- do some reasearch before opening your mouth. Utah is the higher ranked
team.I suppose you think byu has beet more ranked opponants? Get a
clue - do some reasearch. I suppose you think byu has gone unefeted twice and
beat RANKED teams along the way? Get a clue- do some reasearch about the 1984
NC. If you do, you will realize that BYU beat zero ranked teams that year. Their
combined opponants winn% in 1984 was 0.47,i.e. byu would never have a sniff at
the BCS top 5 with that EXACT season - Mathamatical FACT - COMPUTER RANKINGS.
Utah beat more two more ranked teams in 2008 than byu ever beat in a
duckling hunterBYU has won 3 of the last 5and26 of
the last 39Everybody would prefer a couple of BCS wins, to none.Even so, BYU has finished in the AP Top 25 FOUR times in the last five
years, which is almost as many AP Top 25 finishes as Utah has in its entire
history(5).BYU added a Doak Walker Award winner during the decade to
increase its total of national individual award winners to 15, including a
Heisman.Utah still doesn't have a single national individual award
winner.Even in Utah's greatest decade ever, the Utes are still
having a hard time keeping pace with the Cougars.
@UteanymousIt's nice that we have someone like you with enough free
time on their hands to be concerned with grammar and spelling on a message
It's nice to see that Utah's APR is pretty high. Shows that Utah gets it done on
and off the field.
forreal"You notice I did not mention specific (pathetic) losses
that BYU"That would be an exercise in futility, since no BYU
losses during the 2000's were more pathetic than these Utah losses:0-27 to UNLV(2-10)7-47 at home by a Top 5 team in the biggest game in
@ phoenixHow many of those nationally prominent awards since Lavell
and Chow left?History is something that BYU has going for them. As each
year passes, that history becomes further and further removed from the present
reality. BYU had their time in the sun. The more important question is this;
What are they doing now?
MESOUTE"Exposure." "Relevance." "Exposure.
Exposure. Exposure."Congratulations. Wynn will get a lot of
exposure appearing on the cover of Athlon magazine...in Salt Lake
Phoenix"Even in Utah's greatest decade ever, the Utes are still
having a hard time keeping pace with the Cougars." That't the
most hilarious thing I've read today. In the last decade Utah has far surpassed
BYU in accomplishments, $$$, and national relevance. BYU's glory days are a
distant memory soon to be forgotten by all but the most pathetic, diehard Cougar
It's funny that Ute fans made fun of Heaps because a magazine misspelled his
name, yet they can't even spell the name of their own QB correctly.
forreal people "Utah beat more two more ranked teams in 2008
than BYU ever beat in a season."Yes, and BYU one more team with
a winning record in 1984 than Utah did in 2004.If you throw out the
extra game BYU played against 1-10 Utah State, the overall win/loss records for
BYU's 1984 and Utah's 2004 regular season opponents are almost identical.BYU 1984 - 54-69-3Utah 2004 - 53-72-0BYU won two more
road games against Top 15 opponents in their 24-game winning streak that
culminated in winning the national championship than Utah has ever won in a
Itchy"BYU's glory days are a distant memory..."Last Five YearsAP Top 25 FinishesBYU 4Utah 2Top
15 FinishesBYU 3Utah 1Conference ChampionshipsBYU
2Utah 110+ Win SeasonsBYU 4Utah 3Head-to-HeadBYU 3Utah 2
@Truth Machine"no BYU losses during the 2000's were more
pathetic" Really? 20003 - 29 FSU200145
- 72! Hawaii20023-24 to UNLV (At home!)200421 - 52 Utah200824 - 48 Utah200928 - 54
(At home to a less than stellar FSU team)7 - 38 (At home to a very good
TCU team)Those Utah losses don't look all that bad do they? That was
"How many of those nationally prominent awards since Lavell and Chow
left?"The more relevant question for Utah fans is how many
nationally prominent awards has Utah had, EVER?Heisman - nopeDoak Walker - nopeOutland - nopeDavey O'Brien - nopeSammy
Baugh - nopeAny award is more relevant than no award.
phoenix-You didn't just bring up Glass Staley's award, did you?
That's comical. "BYU has won 3 of the last 5and26 of the last 39"If you start bringing up history, instead
of recent results, which is what everyone else in this thread is talking about,
let's pull out the head-to-head record:Utah 54 wins and BYU a paltry
34But, back on topic..."Everybody would prefer a
couple of BCS wins, to none."And Utah has 2 to BYU's none,
brah. Utah has been more relevant and successful on a national stage in the
2000's. Wins in games that matter and higher rankings. It's a fact!
@ Fahrvergnugen | 3:42 p.m. June 16, 2011 Provo, UT I believe
my Utah fan friends make fun of Heaps because dude held a press conference and
hired a publicist before he ever played a game.
MESOUTE"Exposure." "Relevance." "Exposure.
Exposure. Exposure."It's nice that Wynn will get a little
exposure appearing on the cover of Athlon magazines sold in Salt Lake, but
frankly, I'd rather have the exposure Jake Heaps will be getting playing in
seven or eight nationally televised games on ESPN.
Since 2004:BCS games:Utah 2BYU 0BCS wins:Utah 2BYU 0 BCS conference invite:Utah 1BYU 0
(unless you count the virtual invite to the Big 12 that BYU fans dream of)Go Wynn. Take us to the Rose Bowl in Jan 2012!
@ 1984 for lifeI'm sure they did that too. Thank you for bringing up
something completely irrelevant to my comment.
oh, and since 2004:Completed Quests for Perfection:Utah
2 (has no Quest t-shirts though)BYU 0 (lots of Quest t-shirts)
@ truth and phoeonix-TCU: How is utah getting beat by a
undefeted #2 TCU team at home by 40 points more pathetic than BYU getting beat
by a #6 not-undefeted TCU team at home by 31 points?Bringing up TCU
is not a good argument. Utah faced the WAY better tcu team. Not to
mention utah has beat tcu more than byu has in the MWC. Stupid
argument.Arguing game by game is a slipery slope for a byu fan. It's
the reason BYU has not gone to a bcs bowl - they don't win big games, utah does.
In byu's best season in the MWC (2009) they only beat 2 ranked
teams, utah and OSU (23&25),(tying thier all time record, 2 ranked wins in a
season 1996) - and lost two blow outs at HOME against one unranked and one
ranked opponant. That is not a "great" season. Not even close, no bcs
bowl, not worthy.In utah's best season in the MWC (2008) they beat 4
ranked teams two of them were top 7 teams. Byu has never beaten four ranked in a
year or two top 10 in a year. BYU falls short. Not Great.
MESOUTE Cougars don't use more buzz words than Utes, just different
ones: have fun in your self-appointed "Conference of Champions." By the way, I read the article and it did not have a single thing to do
with BYU or their buzz words. THAT is why I wrote that YOU are the one who is
caught up in them. If not, why even mention them in this article?! (You will
notice that many of your Ute friends also chose to focus their comments on BYU
rather than the topic at hand). Meanwhile, I just came on here to
congratulate Wynn and wish him luck....
Good for Wynn, I think the Utes are going to have a fine season and hold their
own in the Pac-12. And Hedgehog, are you REALLY complaining about trolls?
@ SoCalUtahFanIt was a virtual invite to the BIG EAST not the Big
12. Get your virtual facts right! ;) I'll say it again, Utah's going to be
just fine in the Pac-12, I expect that will have their fair share of success.
I'm excited to see how BYU does in independence too.
20023-24 to UNLV (At home!)You forgot that they byU also lost
at home to UNLV in 2004......Looks like UNLV dominated byU in
2002-2004. No surprise though.2002 9-52 at Air Force, ouch....2004 10-42 at USC, not a good showing...23-49 at Notre Dame....not
pretty7-32 at TCU In a two year span byU lost to TCU by a
score of 14-70 and neither year TCU went to a BCS game. I forgot who
went 7-6 last year?Chase Hansen....double ouch31 Million
a year for Utah or 4 million a year for byU; which is better?Look at
any recruiting site from last year after Utah went to the Pac-12 and byU went
indy.......utah in the top 30 and byU in the 50's6 of 9; and the
three wins byU had took a "miracle" to win, Utah just crushes byU.
See 2004 and 2008.Just some thoughts while read how byU fans think
they have it better, what a joke you are.....how is the bubble in Utah county?
Chiro,I can't wait to see that "bubble" POP! on September
17th 2011. It will be BYU's second loss in a row, making them 1-2 to start the
season on their easiest SOS in decades. POP!
I prefer to do all of my comparisons within the Mendenhall and Whittingham
era.Utah-- Coach of the Year 1BYU----COY 0
scenic,Truth is, BYU still played Utah State in 1984 so you have to
look at the full body of work, you can't pick and choose the wins you want to
toss and keep.In today's environment of computer ratings, strength
of schedule etc, BYUs body of work in 1984 wouldn't have been enough to get them
even a sniff at the NC since their opponents winning % was .410. Utah is a good
modern day measuring stick for the Y. In 2008 they beat 4 top 25 teams and two
top 7 teams, but still only got a #2 ranking. For comparison sake, BYU didn't
play a single ranked opponent in 1984.
The first 3 posters are Utah fans. 2 of the first 3 posters on a Utah article
are Utah fans commenting about BYU.hedgehog calling someone a troll
is like a skunk saying someone else smells
Bo Jangles BYU was already 11-0 BEFORE they played Utah State in
1984. Playing Utah State was a non-factor in BYU's body of work.
brluthi | 4:20 p.m. June 16, 2011 Provo, UT "I'm sure
they did that too. Thank you for bringing up something completely irrelevant to
my comment."You're welcome.
@TheHailstorm | 5:09 p.m. June 16, 2011 I prefer to do all of my
comparisons within the Mendenhall and Whittingham era.Utah-- Coach of the
Year 1BYU----COY 0 ....Good point.One additional
fact --and very important fact...On APR (Academic Progress Rating)
national ranking:31. Kyle Whittingham, Utah 95789. Bronco
Mendenhall, BYU 928National COY Kyle is way ahead of Provo COY
Bronco.Go Kyle! See you in Pasadena CA in Jan 2012!
Athlon"Get your Utah cover today!"You have to
admit, having a Utah player on the Utah cover does show more respect for Utah
than they get from the PAC-- like putting Utah-USC on Versus, and one more game
on Fox for the whole season.If the PAC had their way, I'm not so
sure Wynn would have made the cover, so in a way, I agree, this is a positive
news story for the Utes.Utah gets more respect when Larry Scott or
the PAC isn't involved.(I'm not dissin' the Utes, I'm dissin' the
PAC and Larry Scott...)
TheHailstorm"I prefer to do all of my comparisons within the
Mendenhall and Whittingham era."AP Top 25 FinishesBronco
4Kyle 2Top 15 FinishesBronco 3Kyle 1Conference ChampionshipsBronco 2Kyle 110+ Win
SeasonsBronco 4Kyle 3Head-to-HeadBronco 3Kyle 3Record vs Bottom Half of MWC (Wyo, CSU, NM, UNLV)Bronco 12-0Kyle 7-5
utahcountyuteWhat's more pathetic than being SHUTOUT 0-27 by a team
that only won one other game?Except for getting waxed at home 7-47?
Even during the darkest days of the Crowton era, BYU didn't lose a
home game by 40 or more points.--------------------forreal "How is utah getting beat by a undefeted #2 TCU team
at home by 40 points more pathetic...?"2010BYU at TCU
3-31Utah vs TCU 7-47Because BYU only lost to that same TCU
team, ON THE ROAD, by 28.And, unlike Utah, BYU was still in the game
until the closing moments of the first half, trailing only 0-3 with 1:42 left in
the 2nd Q. In fact, BYU only trailed TCU 17-3 at the end of the 3rd Q.Utah was hopeless out of the TCU game in the 1st Q, trailing 20-0, and the
Utes were down 40-0, before they finally scored in the 4th Q. For a
team that was ranked #5 in the BCS and supposedly playing in the biggest game in
Utah history, it was a pathetic, humiliating loss.
Riddles in the Dark,Your post is very biased. For example, you say
Top 15 Finishes. Why Top 15? Why not Top 10? Why not Top 5? Oh I know, it is
because byu would look silly against Utah in that category. It would look like
this.Top 5 FinishesBronco 0Kyle 1
"31 Million a year for Utah"Call us when Utah gets its
first $31m paycheck from the PAC12.If the Utes are rolling in the
dough, why are they gouging their fans with 24% increases in season ticket
prices and an 8% increase in student fees?UNLV 2007won at Utah
State 23-16lost to Wisconsin 13-20lost to Hawaii 14-49BEAT UTAH 0-27lost at Nevada 20-27lost at AFA 14-31lost to BYU 14-24lost to CSU 23-48lost at Wyo 24-29lost to
SDSU 30-38lost at TCU 10-34lost at UNM 6-27Utah finished
behind UNLV in the race for the Beehive Boot.Getting shutout by a
team that only beat one other team all season, Utah State(2-10).How
much more pathetic can you get?
KH"Why Top 15?"Because it shows MULTIPLE years
of success.The drum and feather logo is perfect for the Utes,
because they beat the same two-headed drum over and over and
over--2004-2008-2004-2008--because that's the only feather U have to put in your
bonnet.Top 25/10+ SeasonsBYU2009 11-2 #12/#122008 10-3 #25/#212007 11-2 #14/#152006 11-2 #16/#152001 12-2
#25/#241996 14-1 #5/#51994 10-3 #18/#101991 8-3-2 #23/#231990 10-3 #22/#171989 10-3 #22/#181985 11-3 #16/#171984 13-0
#1/#1 1983 11-1 #7/#71981 11-2 #13/#111980 12-1 #12/#121979 11-1 #13/#121977 9-2 #20/#16Utah2010 10-3
ur/#232009 10-3 #18/#182008 13-0 #2/#42004 12-0 #4/#52003 10-2 #21/#211994 10-2 #10/#81964 9-2 ur/#14
RiddlesYou need to understand the rules here.Utah fans
are famous for using selective stats, and then calling others "biased"
for using their own selective stats.Just to clarify: 2004 and 2008 are okay to talk about when you're discussing Utah football.Pre-WAC is also okay as long as you only talk in generalities like
head-to-head record versus BYU and leather helmet era championships, but don't
delve into specifics like "Why are you counting a win against the Utah
alumni in your overall record?"But if you really want to know
what Utah has done in football:Utah won BCS games in 2004 and
2008Utah also had undefeated seasons in 2004 and 2008Utah was also
ranked in the Top 5 in 2004 and 2008Utah's coach was also named COY in
2008Utah also had very good seasons in 2004 and 2008Utah also beat
some ranked teams in 2008The drum and feather logo is perfect for
Utah, because the Utes are continually beating the same two-headed drum over and
over and over, because 2004 and 2008 are the only two feathers they have to put
in their bonnet.
SoCalUtahFan | 4:21 p.m. June 16, 2011 Utesville, CA "Completed Quests for Perfection"The only quest for
perfection that matters is one that ends in a national chamionship.Lifetime Completed Quests for PerfectionBYU 1Utah 0#1 > #2, #4, or #5 no matter how you spin it
@antiBCS...as a great President would say...Well, there you go
again, my fellow cougarettes, bringing up 1984 when your so-called NC was a win
over 6-5 Michigan. It might be well if you would ask yourself, are you
better off than you were twenty-seven years ago?In the last 10-15
years, Utah has passed BYU in college football. Two perfect quests. Two BCS wins in 2 tries. One national COY. BCS conference
member.and all BYU has to show...lots of Quest' t-shirts,
@MesquiteYou always have a new rationalization.Last
Decade...2 years ago BYU had another "Consensus"
All-American (Pitta), that's number 15.(Utah has 4, and one was a
kicker)They have another Pre-season 1st teamer this year,
Reynolds.They got the number 1 recruit in America, Heaps.They had 3 more players inducted into the College Hall of Fame.(BYU 6,
Detmer will make 7) (Utah-1 a coach)They had a former player, 2
time NFL-MVP and Super Bowl MVP inducted into the Pro football Hall of Fame.They had half of their teams finishing in the Top 25.And all
this despite of the Nightmare Crowton years.A Doak Walker winner to
start the decade, and the the biggest buzz of all the new receivers in the NFL,
even, the Great... Austin "Magic Happens" Collie.More pub
than the U could ever dream of. And then The Jimmer?Forget it.
correction: in spite of
Irrelevance is when you talk about being a "premier football program"
but act like Division II program:Appalachian State 34 #5
Michigan 32"The monumental upset at No. 5 Michigan was only
minutes old when, more than 400 miles away, Appalachian State... [fans] headed
for the school's football stadium, climbed the fence, and tore down the
goalpost." -- USA TodayBYU 14#3 Oklahoma 13"People danced in the streets. They hugged perfect strangers. They lit
off fireworks. And in general, they celebrated and celebrated and celebrated...
spontaneous celebrations erupted throughout this city and lasted well into the
early hours of the morning on Sunday." -- DNTo be fair Oklahoma
was #3 and Michigan was only #5... so can't blame the fans of the "premier
program" for celebrating like they just won a NC in September.
Premier, storied programs get media & TV coverage and this fall U guys get
uteBusters, believe you me, BYU fans can beat the drum (err, dead horse) just as
well as Ute fans. I know, I knowm in 2007 UNLV beat Utah 27 to 0. And the
drumming continues...Your drum is the "Utah had only two good
seasons." Since we all know "good season" = undefeated. Or in
BYU's case Top 15 finishes, since they only have 1 undefeated season.But go ahead and pretend Y fans are above the drumming.
"even, the Great... Austin "Magic Happens" Collie.""the great"? wow! Take away Manning and he is nobody.What has the great Dennis Pitta done in the NFL? hmmmmnext
Blu / Scenic,Again, BYU didn't play a single ranked opponent in
1984. In fact, they played very few teams with winning records.
@BoGet your facts straight, Pitt was ranked #1 at the time they
played BYU opening up the 1984 season. They also came into the 1984
season with a previous 11 game winning streak. They defeated Missouri in the
Holdiday. Say what you want but there's a nice shiny trophy down
here in Provo that says NC on it. We'll get more mileage out of it than two BCS
bowl wins down the road.
Uteology/SoCalUtahFanIrrelevance is being invited to the big boys
club and then being told to sit at the rickety card table and enjoy your table
scraps -- what was it, your conference debut on that good ol' MWC standby,
Versus, and your big new rivalry game" on Fox Regional?A
program that was really one of the big boys wouldn't have to beg for an ESPN
bone from their friends down south.-------------------MiPOnly one undefeated season, but a plethora of very good seasons
dating back to the 70's -- 17 of 34 Top 25 finishes in both polls since 1977; 23
conference championships since 1965; BYU fans talk about 1984 only as a
highlight, because 200 words is far too few to talk about all of BYU's football
accomplishments. Utah fans talk about 2004 and 2008, because that's all they
Wynn will have a nice season, if he can stay healthy. I don't see the Utes as
winning the Pac-12 south division, but 8-4 would be a solid season and perfectly
reasonable. Without Wynn, though, and it could be a long year of transition.Quotes from sammyg @ 955 PM:"Get your facts straight, Pitt
was ranked #1 at the time they played BYU opening up the 1984 season."Ah shoot sammy, there you go calling someone out with 'facts.'Ahem. Facts straight = Pitt, preseason ranked #3/7, Auburn was
1.Pitt untimately finished UNRANKED at 3-7-1. As did all of BYU's
opponents at the end of 1984 (finish unranked, that is), hence Bo Jangles'
comments."They also came into the 1984 season with a previous
11 game winning streak. They defeated Missouri in the Holdiday."I believe Bo Jangles spoke only of the '84 team. As you are well aware, I
assume, the opponents BYU played in 1983 don't actually count for the '84
season."Say what you want but there's a nice shiny trophy down
here in Provo that says NC on it."That I will agree with
because it is actually a fact.
Bo Jangles What BYU did in 1984 was beat every team on their
schedule and cash in on the national cachet the Cougars had been building since
19771979: 11-1, #13/#12, undefeated regular season1980:
12-1, #12/#11, beat the famed SMU Pony Express1981: 11-2, #13/#111982: 8-4, unranked1983: 11-1, #7/#7, finished the
season on an 11-game winning streak including two road wins over Top 15 teams1984: 13-0, #1/#1, finished the season on a 24-game winning streak
including wins over two teams (Pittsburgh and Michigan) who were ranked as high
as #3 during the season
@sammygPremier, storied programs get media & TV coverage and this fall
U guys get what? --------------Something that BYU has
been dreaming for 30 years..."In the early years, I think BYU
felt that they had outgrown the conference and their people were talking about
how BYU would go to the Big 12 or the Pac-10." -- Ron McBride
@anti BCSWrong. We just had a decade where Utah football finally
arrived on the national stage while BYU faded. We have a brighter future:A) Coach wanted by SEC and BYUB) More NFL players being
developed (i.e. better talent)C) BYU had better recruits but that trend
might be changing see 2011 Utah class and blue-blood Chase HansenD) 30
million a year Nope, irrelevance is not being wanted at all like
Boise by the MWC, TCU by the Big East, Utah by the PAC-12, and everyone wants
Notre Dame but no one seems to want "Notre Dame of the West".
(continued)BYU 1979 to 1984Conference Championships: 6
of 6Overall: 55-8(87%)Conference: 42-3(93%)Top 12: 5 of 6Top 7: back-to-back, 1983, 1984National
Championship: 1AFCA (Kodak) Coach of the YearLaVell
Edwards(1984)Bobby Dodd Coach of the YearLaVell
Edwards(1979)Heisman Trophy Candidates:Marc Wilson(1979) -
3rdJim McMahon(1981) - 3rdSteve Young(1983) - 2ndRobbie
Bosco(1984) - 3rdDavey O'Brien Award (nation's best quarterback
since 1981)Jim McMahon(1981)Steve Young(1983)Sammy Baugh
Trophy (nation's best passer)Marc Wilson (1979)Jim McMahon (1981)Steve Young (1983)Robbie Bosco (1984)--------------------Utah 2004 to 2009Conference Championships: 2 of 6Overall: 59-17(77%)Conference: 35-12(74%)Top 12: 2 of
6Top 4: 2004, 2008National Coach of the YearKyle
Whittingham(2008)Heisman Trophy Candidatesnone in the top 3National Individual Award WinnersnoneEven with Utah's
two undefeated BCS seasons included, Utah's best doesn't even come close to
comparing to BYU's best.BYU accomplished MUCH more from 1979 to
1984, than Utah has accomplished in their entire football history.And that was just the beginning of BYU's legacy.
@UteologyI would say it is obvious, based upon all of
"your" research and posts, which program is relevant to
"Uteology".Could you be more easy to read? You are
transparent, my friend.
@clowntown,Read this slowly so your hate doesn't overcome your
reason.APR does not figure LDS missions into their calculations. So
the Y gets dinged in APR b/c they have so many missionaries who don't complete
their degrees in the 5-year window that determines APR.A better
gauge to determine how well the Cougs are doing academically would be to take a
look at the Academic All-Conference teams where the Y is very well represented
every year.Stop the hate. Embrace the love.
Uteology Wrong: Utah had a couple of great years during the decade
and got lucky to be in the right place at the right time when the PAC needed a
12th team.Utah being in the conference had absolutely no bearing on
the PAC 12's new television contract except for giving the PAC 12 enough teams
to play a championship game.That much was proven when the Utes were
completely ignored by ABC/ESPN when the television schedule for 2011 was
announced.With 10 straight WAC championships, BYU had indeed
outgrown the conference and was on the cusp of being invited to the newly
expanding Big 12 when the Gov. of Texas intervened to force her alma mater,
Baylor, to be invited instead of BYU.
@TrueBlue"And that was just the beginning of BYU's
legacy."Actually that was the peak; it's been downhill since
then. "BYU accomplished MUCH more from 1979 to 1984, than Utah
has accomplished in their entire football history."As far as
individual awards yes Edwards players achieved a lot, as far as on the field no.
Which teams in the 1979-1984 WAC were as good as 2004-2010 MWC Utah, TCU, and
BYU? On the field they look pretty even to me... Wins over AP top
20 final ranked teams:1979-1984 BYU: 3 wins - #20 SMU, #13 AFA, and #17
UCLA2004-2009 Utah: 3 wins - #6 Bama, #7 TCU, and #18 OSUContinued...
Part 2:Again even...1979 BYU 11-1: @SDSU (8-3), @USU
(7-3-1) and @Long Beach State (7-4)1980 BYU 12-1: @Hawaii (8-3), LBS (8-3)
and #20 SMU (8-4)1981 BYU 11-2: @Hawaii (9-2), WSU (8-3-1) and Wyoming
(8-3)1982 BYU 8-4: SDSU (7-5)1983 BYU 11-1: #13 @AFA 10-2, BGS (8-3)
and #17 @UCLA (7-4-1)1984 BYU 13-0: @AF (8-4), and Tulsa (6-5) and no
other team above .5002004 Utah 12-0: #25 Pitt (8-4), Texas A&M
(7-5) and @WY (7-5)2005 Utah 7-5: GTech (7-5) 2006 Utah 8-5: Tulsa
(8-5)2007 Utah 9-4: UNM (9-4), @TCU (8-5), and Navy (8-5)2008 Utah
13-0: #6 Bama (12-2), #7 TCU (11-2), #18 OSU (9-4), #25 BYU (10-3), @AF
(8-5)2009 Utah 10-3: Cal (8-5), AF (8-5), and WY (7-6)NOTE:
BYU had legends (Edwards and Chow) coaching for years while Utah had major
coaching changes twice in 2005 and 2009.
C'mon, you guys, this childish bickering has to stop.Researchers at
the Huntsman Cancer Institute could come up with a cure for cancer, and the
comments in the Deseret News article about the life-changing discovery would
quickly turn into:We have a national championship, and you don't.We have two BCS wins, and you don't.We have a bigger stadium.We
got invited to the Pac-12, and you didn't.We have a Heisman Trophy winner,
Doak Walker winner, and lots more All-Americans than you do.We've have
more NFL players than you do.Our school is better than yours.We do
better research than you.You got beat by UNLV.We have better
athletes.We have way more Top 25 finishes than you.Coach Whittingham
turned you guys down.Legacy.You've never been to the Final Four.ESPN.BCS conference membership.Jimmer!To paraphrase
what a reader said in a San Jose paper (the DN won't print this otherwise),
"Is every thread going to turn into a BYU vs UTah 'something' contest? BYU
fans should stick to whatever conference they are in. Not really interested on
why they think they are better then Utah."Embarrassing....
Had BYU not defeated Missouri in 1983 Holdiday and had that season of 11 wins
going into 1984 I'm sure there would not have been a consensus decision to award
the NC.Had the Utes had a winning 2007 season then maybe 2008 could
of, should of been an NC for the Utes but alas it was not to be.This
is the difference between storied programs getting what they get and others
getting table scraps.
Sam/Tru,Let me clue you boys in on something... Teams that finish
the season 3-7 (Pitt) or 6-6 (Michigan) are not considered ranked opponents by
anyone's standards. That twisted logic is not shared by others outside your
bubble. You have your NC trophy. Just admit that the 1984 SOS
against teams with a .410 winning percentage wouldn't get the job done in
today's environment. The best team the Cougars beat in 1984 was Air Force 8-4.
Tru,In 2010, Utah was ranked as high a #5... does that mean they
were worthy of their ranking? No. Pitt and Michigan were not good
teams in 1984 with a combined record of 9-13. Neither of them finished the
season ranked. Where do you guys come up with this stuff???Just
admit it, your Cougars played absolutely nobody in 84.
@Meso UteWhat's BYU doing???Right now...just waiting for Sept
17th to see how gun shy Wynn's actually going to be in his own backfield after
being sacked and chased like a scared little bunny rabbit all day long in front
of 92,516 spectators when USC trounces them the week before. Better get the 2nd
and 3rd bakup qb's ready Wynn's going to definitely need them. and by the
way....there were 5 other covers just for PAC...Wynn's picture was not a solo.
UteologyEvery serious college football fan knows that teams don't
come out of no where to win a national championship. Either you're a storied
program with years and years of accomplishments behind you, or you're an
up-and-coming program that has had very good recent success.Utah may
have had some nice wins during the 2000's, but the big difference between BYU
1984 and Utah 2004/2008, is Utah's overall record for the 5 years preceding 2004
and 2008 pales in comparison to BYU's overall record.BYU 1984
(1979-1983)Top 25: 4 of 5, #13/#12, #12/#12, #13/#11, #7/#7, ranked #7/#7
in 1983Championships: 5 of 5Overall: 53-9(86%)Conference:
35-3(92%)Utah 2004 (1999-2003)Top 25: 1 of 5, #21/#21, ranked
#21/#21 in 2003Championships: 2 of 5Overall: 36-26(55%)Conference: 21-14(60%)Utah 2008 (2003-2007)Top 25: 2 of 5,
#21/#21, #4/#5, unranked in 2007Championships: 2 of 5Overall:
46-16(74%)Conference: 27-11(71%)Utah finished #6 in the final
BCS rankings in 2004/2008. BYU was ranked #1 in both final regular season polls.
byu wins national Title in three years. Right it down.
@che loco...not to be undermining My BYU but the missionary info applies just as
easily but to a smaller degree to Utah as it does to BYU....what is bigger on
the BYU side is actually the woman athletes who don't finish thier degrees
because they are marrying the return missionaries they meet at BYU...hence the
Bo Jangles "Let me clue you boys in on something... Teams that
finish the season 3-7 (Pitt) or 6-6 (Michigan) are not considered ranked
opponents by anyone's standards."True.But, let me
clue you in on something... Upstart programs that have no track record coming
into a great season have NO CHANCE at winning a national championship...regardless of how many Top 25 teams they beat in that one great
season.Utah 20041999 - unranked2000 - unranked2001
- unranked2002 - unranked2003 - #21/#21Utah 20082003 - #21/#212004 - #4/#52005 - unranked2006 - unranked2007 - unrankedThe reason Utah only finished #6 in the Final BCS
polls in 2004 and 2008, despite undefeated regular seasons, is the same reason
BYU only finished #9 in the final regular season polls after an undefeated
regular season in 1979 -- no previous track record.-------------------------UteologyYou're getting lost
in the weeds. No poll voter goes back and scrutinizes wins/losses
from previous seasons, but they do remember how teams did overall, that is, the
final grades in the final polls.BYU 19841979 #13/#121980
#12/#121981 #13/#111982 unranked1983 #7/#7
@Utah 95Sorry...that sort of angle was tried before coming out of
the Univ. of Utah with the announcement that they had created cold fusion...I
still can't get my old 92 Plymouth Acclaim up to warp speed and it's still BYU 1
National Championship and Utah 2 rollover tricks and a couple of bones to go
chew on in the corner.
Uteology"Actually that  was the peak; it's been downhill
since then."If you were at all objective, you'd realize how
silly that statement is.BYU Since 1984:Conference
Championships: 12Top 25 Finishes: 11, including #5, #10, #12, #15 and #15
final finishes10+ Win Seasons: 9Overall: 221-109-2(67%)National Individual Award Winners: 8-Heisman - 1-Outland - 2-Davey O'Brien - 2-Sammy Baugh - 2-Doak Walker - 1Plus, a big home win over #1-ranked, defending national champion Miami back
when the Hurricane were the biggest, baddest team in major college football.Plus, a big win in the Cotton Bowl in what would have been a BCS bowl IF
the BCS had existed in 1998.Frankly, BYU has accomplished more,
SINCE 1984, than Utah has accomplished in their entire history:AP
Top 25 Finishes Since 1984BYU 11AP Top 25 Finishes LifetimeUtah 5
@Bo JanglesBo you're forgetting something very major... BYU was ranked a
solid #3 going into the Post season's bowls... Oklahoma was picked to win the
National Championship but lost in a very ho hum non thriller to a team that
wasn't considered the right choice to be playing them in the first place. BYU
didn't just back into a National Championship they were poised to be the
National Championships if no.1 & 2 fell flat on thier faces which they
managed to do extremely well. That's why the ball isn't round.
@uteologyFunny how I remember that it was BYU who picked themselves up
from a bad start in 2010 and Utah who crashed and burned big time at the end.
Hate to admit that our coaching staff not only gave you the game by gambling on
a 4th and inches early in the 3rd qtr instead of taking the chip shot field goal
but they literally changed the momentum of the game as well... otherwise the
better and much younger team on the field would not have lost that game. We'll
see this fall where the real winners are ....But I expect to see a very shell
shocked Wynn coming off of a not so surprising loss to USC in front of 92,516
seated spectators in Memorial Colliseum.
Where's Stockton Actually, BYU was ranked #1 in both final regular
season polls and the college football sports media spent an entire month heavily
scrutinizing BYU and the other legitimate contenders - Oklahoma, Washington and
Nebraska. Florida was a non-factor because the Gators were banned from playing
in a bowl.As much as the naysayers like to pretend that Michigan was
a terrible team, the Wolverines were ranked as high as #3 during the season,
after beating defending national champion Miami, and Michigan would have been
playing in the Rose Bowl, instead of the Holiday Bowl, if they'd beaten their
arch-rival Ohio State in their final regular season game.Michigan
was a legitimate national championship contender until a rash of injuries in
late September/early October lead to several losses. By the time the Wolverines
played BYU in the Holiday, almost all of their injured players were back and
healthy and the Wolverines fully expected to knock off the #1-ranked team.All five major selecting organizations chose BYU as their 1984 National
Champion.Naysayers who simply look at SOS and bowl opponents are
clueless about the true history of the 1984 college football season.
All right my fellow College Football fans; its time to give up on the BYU fan
base. We can be assured that BYU grads/fans have a Sevier reality/honesty block
when it comes to the following truths:-BYUs great win records in the
early 80s were against a conference that was not remotely as competitive as the
MWC. With BCS teams like Utah and TCU in the MWC what happened to BYUs
dominance? Nonexistent. -BYUs SOS in 1984 would have kept them outside
the BCS top five, mathematical fact! Computer Polls are 1/3 of the formula. -BYU faced/beat ZERO ranked opponents in 1984. BSU,Utah,orTCU would have been
laughed out of the BCS conversation, had they not had Huge marquee wins over
highly ranked opponents in the regular season. -BYU was only great if they
had a schedule that makes them great. Undefeated only if they play all losing
teams (0.41% in 1984)-The most ranked teams byu ever beat in a season was
two in 1996, and they lost to a third ranked team that they faced that year.
Utah beat 2 top 10 and 4 top 24 in 2008.
@Where's Stockton,Dude, BYU coaches did not "gamble" on
4th and inches in the third quarter instead of taking the chip shot. They tried
to pick up a first down - that's called play calling, Utah's defense simpley had
the better atheletes than BYU's offence. You only had INCHES to go. But
considering it was the 70th ranked offense in the nation vs the 23 ranked
defense in the nation, the out come of the game was predictable, Utah one, as
expected by everyone in the nation.Gambling is trying to kick a
field goal for the win in the 4th quarter, once again over dominating athletic
mismatches - BLOCK.BYU Points for 2010: 70th (unranked)BYU
Points against 2010: 32nd (unranked)Utah Points for 2010: 23rd (Ranked)Utah Points against 2010: 24th (Ranked)The outcome is predictable
every time: The unquestionable undesputed BETTER teams wins against vastly a
vastly inferior opponant at home. Did you forget that BYU was one of
the worst teams in the nation last year???7-6, one contriversial win
against a winning team, a shamefull bowl matchup.vs. 10-3, Ranked, losing to a top five and top 10 team. Bowl game RANKED match up.
@True Blue Sorry both AP and UPI the then still prevailing polls
had BYU at No.3 going into the Bowl ...not at no. 1 otherwise there wouldn't
have been reason for a controversy.For real people...early in the
3rd quater it's a gamble... you take the sure thing...not doing so is like
making a fieldgoal and then taking the points off the board because of a penalty
in your favor...it's considered going against the grain or going against lady
luck if you prefer to call it that. To have the right call would have been to
have called for the field goal...even if they had missed at such an easy range
it would have still been the right call. If Mark Wilson or Jim McMahon had been
the quarterback and not a freshman in Heaps...maybe even I would have gambled.
forreal people Sorry, but you don't have a clue what you're talking
about. The WAC had some very good teams, besides BYU, Utah just wasn't one of
them.Bottom line is none of your BYU-hating, Utah-loving revisionist
spinning is going to change history. The exact same polls that voted
BYU #1 in 1984, voted Utah #4/#5 in 2004 and #2/#4 in 2008.It's
hillarious how Utah fans constantly beat their BcS drum, but when it comes to
citing Utah's final rankings, they completely ignore the OFFICIAL BcS poll, the
Coaches poll, in favor of the AP poll, which is not even associated with the
BcS.If you were really honest about your BcS accomplishments, you'd
be using the Final Coaches Poll as your measure of success.BYU 1984
- #1BYU 1996 - #5Utah 2004 - #5Utah 2008 - #4It's
laughable how Utah fans cite wins over ranked opponents as a proof of
accomplishment, but then discount BYU's final rankings. Utah fans
expect us to believe that poll voters are really smart when they rank Utah's
opponents, but really dumb when they rank BYU?The final polls are
the final word. Deal with it!
@forreal peopleLike I said... we'll see this fall...I don't see where a
much older seasoned Utah team had anymore overall success against a much younger
less experienced BYU team... especially by the way Utah pancaked and burst in
flames as bad as they did at the end of the season. A 1 point difference in a
game that was dominated everywhere but the final score by these much younger
less experienced BYU players isn't much to go on. Granted their tailfeathers
got burnt on takoff but they managed to land safely intact...More than I can say
for the Utes. The smoke is sill on the horizon. These will still be those same
kids but you can believe they will be a lot different and vastly improved over
what Utah barely got past last November.
BYU and Utah are good programs. It's hilarious to hear the things said. I
really think that Utah had better odds of going to the BCS in the Mountain West.
Now they have a tougher schedule and great teams like USC and Oregon to fight
with. Ya they can lose a game or two but they now have a Pac championship road
block. Remember when Arizona and Arizona St. dominated the WAC and made the
jump to the Pac? Neither of them have played in a BCS game to date. I'm
guessing if they stayed with the WAC and then followed to the MWC they would
have already played in the BCS.
@stocton-So 1 point differences don't count to a BYU fan? Last
second WINS don't count? Well you better take the last 3 wins the Y had against
the Ute's off the record books then, as those don't count either according to
your. That would leave only two legitimate wins in the series this
decade:Utah 2-052-21 utah48-24 utahLOL. You didn't think that one through did you.Or maybe you did,
It's just that the Rules of NCAA football just don't apply to BYU.
@showmeaytdsI couldn't have said it better....actually I have...almost per
batum...I think the two Arizona Schools have one Rose Bowl between them.
Litterly the Original PAC with it's 8 teams became and remained all these years
later the PAC-8.2. Now with Utah and Colorado they're just the new PAC-8.4.
What gets me is that uteys think that they are on the inside looking out.
They've been given two meaningless bones and put back in thier pens far from
anywhere meaningful and still haven't been invited to the main table with the
big boys...and yet they're content to have the wool pulled over thier eyes.
It's actually quite mindboggling. What are they going to do when and not if...
both Whittingham and Chow leave...probably sooner than later???
@forreal people...Dude... what matters is coming up in Sept...10th and
17th to be exact. Enjoy your 1 win over Montana State... and better hope that
Wynn survives Memorial Colliseum and also hope there's enough of a Ute team to
even keep up a one point disadvantage this next meeting. The BYU pass attack is
back. This is going to be a much different BYU team than the one you squeeked
by last November.
Wow, I thought this was an article about Jordan Wynn being on the cover of some
irrelevant magazine?You Tweedledee's and Tweedledum's deserve each
other. A hundred years from now you all will still be gnawing at each others
ankles with myopic stats and spin trying to prove who's team has been the best
over some moving window of time.
Stockton,Brilliant!! it sounds like you would have advised the U of
U to turn down the PAC-12 invite, because it's meaningless.That's
some pretty valuable "wool" that got pulled over the eyes of those
fool's up on the Hill, right?. To throw arguments out there about
Utah not being included in the Pac-12, even though the Ute's got invited to the
Pac-12, is just as stupid as your arguemnt that: even though the Ute's beat won
the 2010 BYU-Utah game, Utah really lost, and Utah is really the real loseres of
the deal.Brilliant.Your so smart. I guess
@ Stockton,Ohhhhh, I get it. It's not that past that matters. It's
not the present that matters, it's the future. Hard to follow, but I think i get
it now.Since BYU is so good right now in June, and they really
didn't loose to Utah back in November, and Utah stunk it up so bad winning
against byu in November, BYU is clearly going to destroy Utah in September on
the magnitude that only ute fans are used to enjoying:52-2148-24Like I said,it's a little hard to follow, but I think i get it now.
bleed-If we did not enjoy arguing with eachother, we would not be on
this board arguing with eachother. If you don't enjoy what your reading, knock
it off.Thanks for pointing out to us that our arguments are
over-the-top and filled with spin. I don't think we notice that about
eachother.This stuff puts a smile on my face. I'm intitled to my
@ where's stock,Are you sure they include the women's sports into
the APR calculations? If you go to the website (linked in this article) it
shows the ncaa football teams' rankings with their corresponding coach next to
them. If the APR were for the entire athletic program then why would Bronco
(whose name is next to the Y's score) be responsible for the entire athletic's
program?From what I understand, every team in every sport has their
APR calculated individually. They also do an athletic program score, but that's
not what clowntown was talking about (which I was correcting him on).
forreal"Since BYU is so good right now in June, and they really
didn't loose to Utah back in November, and Utah stunk it up so bad winning
against BYU in November, BYU is clearly going to destroy Utah in September on
the magnitude that only ute fans are used to enjoying:"it
wouldn't be too surprising; in fact, it could even be on the magnitude that only
BYU fans are used to:27-056-656-28by the
way, those are the scores of the next three BYU/Utah games following Utah's last
1-point upset of BYUbut, wait there's more70-3145-2248-1737-17but, my all-time favorite was33-31a dagger that was more painful for Utah fans than that 56-6
beat down -- the largest margin of victory in the history of the BYU-Utah series
@che locoWell actually to be forthright and outright honest... I just took
the round about joking way of saying who cares??? BYU coed jokes are old hat I
know. So if it's that personal to you then I apologize...Honest!!!
"but, my all-time favorite was33-31"Utebusters, wasn't that the game that byu won after losing to Utah four years
in a row before that? "27-056-656-28by
the way, those are the scores of the next three BYU/Utah games following Utah's
last 1-point upset of BYU"Utebusters, that's pretty lame when
you have to talk smack on what you think the next three scores will be in the
Actually forreal people I think it's great that both Utah and BYU left the MWC
for greener $$$ pastures. It will do wonders for both Universities down the road
and I'm an advocate for keeping the rivalry. I just don't see Utah right now
causing any giant Tsunami's in Football...and especially nothing as big as the
one BYU caused in 1984. (LOL)
Hey forreal...uteys keep bringing up the overall w/l stats but most of those old
games were played on your cow pasture not ours... and in those 20 or so early
games the home team ...(Utah)...always got to pick which side they defended and
did not rotate sides during the game like they do now. So we always had to run
uphill while you guys got to run downhill. When we finally got a pasture of our
own we made sure it was level...thus the term level playing field...(LOL) We
pretty much dominated since...but... admittedly you have had a few good yearsLike I said... better hope there's enough of Wynn left after USC wears
him down in his own backfield. What Utah or BYU did or didn't do last year
really doesn't matter...only bragging rights were at stake...
KH"Utebusters, that's pretty lame when you have to talk smack
on what you think the next three scores will be in the series"Not at all1978 Utah 23 BYU 221979 BYU 27 Utah 01980
BYU 56 Utah 61981 BYU 56 Utah 28by the way, 1978 was Utah's
ONLY win over BYU from 1972 until 19882010 Utah 17 BYU 16will 2011 be like 1979? will history repeat itself? we'll have to wait and
see, but consider thisin 1985, defending national champion BYU was
upset at UTEP 16-23next two gamesBYU 59 Wyoming 0BYU 44
Utah St 0in 2008, BYU beat Washington 28-27, but BYU's win was
questioned because of that controversial unsportmanlike call on Jake Lockernext two gamesBYU 59 UCLA 0BYU 44 Wyoming 0coincidence? we'll seebut, it's interesting how history has a
habit of repeating itself
Yes bleed go somewhere else to pick your nose... oops...I mean a fight.
Utebusters,like I said, it's pretty lame when you talk smack on what
you think the scores will be in the future. Utah dominates the series, so by
your logic Utah will continue to dominate the series.
Where's Stockton ??? You're also leaving out the fact that one of
those 1890's BY Academy vs Utah "games" that the Utes count in their
win total, was a spring scrimmage; otherwise, BYA finished with a 3-2 advantage
over UtahOf course, BYU doesn't even count those games, so it's not
an issue.What do the following, um, "entities" all have in
common?YMCASalt Lake HighCrescentsWestminsterLDS CollegeDiamond Butchers9th CavalryAll HallowsCarlisle Indian SchoolHawaii Nat'l GuardFort DouglasOgden
High12th InfantryOregon Short LineSt. Vincent'sUtah
AlumniOccidentalWhitmanFort WarrenHonolulu All-StarsAnswer: "teams" Utah beat, tied, or lost to, and count in
Utah's "official" won/loss record, during the halcyon leather helmet
days of Utah football
Utebusters, I think I'm beginning to understand. For example:byu in 2010 lost to Air Force 35-14next two gamesbyu
10 Florida St. 31 (I can't remember the exact scores)byu 16 Utah St. 28
(or something like that)Yeah, I'm starting to understand the trend
you were talking about.
@ SammygActually Bo did get his facts straight. In 1984, BYU never
played an opponent that finished the season ranked in the AP top 25. Pitt was
ranked #3 coming into that season, not number 1 (Auburn was). Does it really
matter anyways? PITT won 3 games all year, and even got beat by Temple at home.
I'm not sure where I stand on this National Championship asterisk in 1984.
You ran the table, and you were the only team to do that. But you beat a 6-5
Michigan team (barely) in the Holiday Bowl, handing them their 6th loss on the
year. Now, I realize they couldn't control who they got to play in their bowl
game, but lets me honest....did they really deserve the national championship
that year? Ask Barry Switzer, but he's biased. I honestly feel that Utah had
better, more respectable seasons in 2004 & especially 2008. They beat 2 top
7 teams (thrashed Alabama in their backyard) & beat two other top 25 teams
(Zoobs). If it was the old days (80's) they would have been National
Champions. Just got tickets for U vs Y in Sept. Zoobs, meet
Thretton & Harvi.
KHBy my logic, Utah dominated the series UNTIL 1964at
that point Utah lead the series 2-34-4Conference ChampionshipsUtah 21BYU 0Top 25Utah 1 (#14 in the Coaches Poll)BYU 0Bowl GamesUtah 2BYU 0National College
Football Hall of Fame InducteesUtah 1BYU 0----------Also, by my logic, BYU has dominated the series SINCE 1964Conference ChampionshipsBYU 23Utah 6Top 25 Finishes
(both polls)BYU 17Utah 5 Bowl GamesBYU 29Utah 14National ChampionshipsBYU 1Utah 0Heisman TrophiesBYU 1Utah 0National Individual
AwardsBYU 15Utah 0National College Football Hall of Fame
InducteesBYU 7Utah 0Head-to-HeadBYU 29Utah
17----------Even during the Bronco/Kyle eraTop 25 Finishes (both polls)Bronco 4 (including 3 in the Top 15)Kyle 2 (including 1 in the Top 15)Conference ChampionshipsBronco 2Kyle 110+ Win SeasonsBronco 4Kyle 3Head-to-HeadBronco 3 (including 3 of the last 5)Kyle 3Kyle had one great season in 2008, but overall, Bronco has accomplished
more in the final end of season report cards, the final polls.
forreal people | 10:41 a.m. June 17, 2011 Cottonwood Heights, UT "All right my fellow College Football fans; its time to give up on the
BYU fan base. We can be assured that BYU grads/fans have a Sevier
reality/honesty block when it comes to the following truths:"===...That BYU won a NC in 1984?Dude, who has the block on
reality when you argue that something that happened did NOT happen?Let the written past stand and deal with the future.(BTW, what is
KHSorry, you're still grasping at straws, but you're starting to
understand the concept that there are repeating patterns in history; your
example, just isn't one of them.The trend from last year that should
most concern you is that one of the best quarterbacks of his generation started
to develop his rhythm the second half of 2010. Utah fans may want to bury their
heads in the sand and pretend that it was solely attributable to the level of
competition, but knowledgeable BYU fans who have been watching great BYU QBs
since the 70's could clearly see that there was much more to Jake's remarkable
improvement than simply playing weaker teams.Jake threw almost as
many TD passes in the final 6 games of his Freshman season as Wynn threw during
his entire Sophomore season.In a lot of ways, Jake is VERY similar
to Jimmer. Utah fans have been very skeptical of both. Jimmer has already
silenced the naysayers. Now it's Jake's turn.
One Nil"In 1984, BYU never played an opponent that finished the
season ranked in the AP top 25."So what's your explanation as
to why all of those poll voters were so smart when it came to not ranking the
teams BYU played, but so dumb when it came to ranking BYU #1?In
early December, 1984, the final regular season polls were published with BYU
ranked #1 in both the AP and Coaches.The poll voters had over a
month to evaluate BYU's schedule before the final poll was published in early
January, 1985.Do you honestly think that none of the voters bothered
to check BYU's record? That none of them knew that BYU hadn't played any ranked
opponents?Or is this all just sour grapes from naysayers who simply
can't accept the fact that BYU won a legitimate national championship in 1984
and Utah fell short in 2004/2008?AP voters used the exact same
procedures in 1984/2004/2008. The AP voters in 1984 felt BYU
deserved to win the national championship. AP voters in 2004/2008
didn't feel Utah deserved to win the national championship.It's as
simple as that.
"Do you honestly think that none of the voters bothered to check BYU's
record? That none of them knew that BYU hadn't played any ranked opponents?'phoenix,What does this the say about the college football
season as a whole? If a team can win a *nc with an absolutely aweful SOS/no
rannked teams on the schedule? Pretty sad and pretty undeserving.Back then Pollsters couldn't wrap the head around the notion that a team can
be undefeated and still not worthy of a nc. let's all be thankfull for the BCS
or what we'd see tody is a scramble for teams to load up on cupcakes with the
sole mission to go undefeated.
uteBusters,Now I'm really beginning to understand how you argue.
When you bring up meaningless stats of 3 game spans from long long ago it means
that byu has a trend of winning big after a loss. However, when I bring up a 3
game span that happened just last year to disprove your claim, it is totally
irrelevant and meaningless. Ok, I understand.
@LonestarRunner"Actually that  was the peak; it's been
downhill since then."If you were at all objective, you'd
realize how silly that statement is.------------Really?
In the MWC (in the BCS era):A) BYU's biggest accomplishment was
beating #3 0-0 Oklahoma.B) Tell me how many non-Edward recruits
have all those awards that you named? C) BYU used to produced
players like Steve Young.... now its Utah and TCU producing more NFL players.
That's probably why blue-blood Hansen picked Utah over BYU.D) BYU
dominated the WAC they had 4 top 10 teams, but in the MWC the top 10 teams are:
TCU 3, Utah 2, and BYU 0 No wonder we see BYU fans posting top 15
accomplishments, the bar has been lowered by BYU fans themselves.E)
Tell me why is BYU 2-22 vs final ranked teams in the MWC? Utah has five wins
since 2004 alone. The last final ranked BCS team that BYU beat was in 1996 with
two legendary coaches, Edwards and Chow.Facts seem to suggest that
without those two legends:1. BYU has lesser talent2. No
"big wins"3. No top 10 teams
@ Uteology | 5:37 p.m. June 17, 2011 Fort Worth, Texas We
would have more talent, big wins and top 10 teams but:1) We were
cheated2) Everybody hates us and3) We beat ourselves because we were
Uteology @LonestarRunner"Actually that  was
the peak; it's been downhill since then."If you were at all
objective, you'd realize how silly that statement is.------------Really? In the MWC (in the BCS era):Really Uteology???You conveniently decide to skip 1985-1998, as if BYU didn't accomplish
anything during that time period?Then you decide to use "big
wins" during the BCS era as your ONLY criteria for validating your claim
that it's been all "downhill" for BYU since 1984?Why don't
you for once in your life try using just the slightest degree of objectivity in
your "detailed analysis" of BYU?For instance, how do you
justify Utah being deserving of playing for the 2004 NC when Utah didn't play
any ranked regular season opponents and, in fact, played fewer regular season
opponents with winning records than BYU 1984???Utah fans whine about
being stuck playing lousy Pittsburgh in their bowl and use that as their excuse
for Utah not winning the 2004 NC, but then mock BYU for being stuck playing
lousy Michigan, but still winning a NC.Sounds more like petty
jealousy than a real argument.
@ PhoenixCan't tell you. But anybody that compares the two seasons
will tell you that Utah was more deserving. Even you (swallow) have to admit
that right? By the way, Washington received 18 first place votes AP votes that
year, to BYU's 30 something. Does that tell you anything? How many of the
those 18 votes do you think came from top programs? Thats what I thought. Here
is an interesting article from The Bleacher Report in July of 2008. The article
is by Stephen Black. It's titled "The 5 Most Undeserving National
Champs of the Last 25 years." Who do you think is #1? Why don't you give
it a glance.
"Give the Cougars credit for going undefeated because there is not much
else they did in 1984 to deserve national championship consideration. Several
"mid-major" teams since, like Boise State in 2006, Utah in 2004, and
Tulane in 1998, have gone undefeated only to miss out on any serious national
title consideration.The Cougars defeated only one bowl team during
the regular season (Air Force), and did not play anyone who finished the season
ranked in the top 20. BYU's most impressive road win was at Pittsburgh, who
finished the season 3-7-1. Lavell Edwards' squad clinched the
national championship by playing in the Holiday Bowl against a 6-5 Michigan
team, easily Bo Schembechler's worst squad in his 21 years in Ann Arbor. It is
still the only Michigan team to finish without a winning record since 1967.The AP probably should've awarded their No. 1 ranking to Washington, a
team that went 11-1 and won the Orange Bowl over No. 2 Oklahoma. Instead, the
Huskies finished second in the final poll behind a BYU team that had not truly
been tested all season.
You know, I could quote the source of my statement of where Pitt was ranked 'at
the time' as #1 but it would not make any difference, sufficeth to say that I
did not make it up.I agree that the Utes probably got robbed in
2008, it was a great season but the fact remains... we (as in BYU) got a NC... U
don't.Glad your poster child made a regional edition of a magazine
that's sold in Salt Lake... 'Big whoop' as my dear friend Howard S. would
say.Skinny boy better hope his O'line got some game against some
One Nil If you're going quote stats, at least do enough research to
quote them accurately:Final AP Poll 1984#1 Brigham Young 13-0
(38) 1160#2 Washington 11-1 (16) 1140#3 Florida 9-1-1 (6) 1092#4 Nebraska 10-2 1017#5 Boston College 10-2 932#6 Oklahoma 9-2-1
883BYU finished with more than twice as many #1 votes as #2
WashingtonBoth #4 Washington and #5 Nebraska were invited to play #1
BYU in the Holiday Bowl. Both turned down their invites to play lower-ranked
teams.BYU moved into the #1 spot in the AP poll on November 20, 1984
with 40 first place votes.If #4 Washington had accepted their
invitation to play #1 BYU in the Holiday Bowl, we wouldn't be having this
conversation because this debate would have been settled 27 years ago. Either BYU would have lost, ending their championship hopes. Or
BYU would have won, ending any arguments about not beating a ranked team.Regardless, BYU played Washington in early September, 1985, in a game
some naysayers said would prove BYU was undeserving of the 1984 NC.BYU destroyed the Huskies 31-3.
when I think about Wynn as our QB I get depressed. I mean really depressed. He
is at best a D2 QB. To little and girly for me. To much running away and
screaming when the pressure is on.
@ where's stockDon't worry about it. However, it is confusing why
you'd jump in on a conversation I was having with clowntown to correct me with
incorrect info. But, I'm not offended by it and have no personal stake in
it.I am amused that clowntown hasn't had anything to say since I put
him to task about APR calculations.
"The Cougars defeated only one bowl team during the regular season (Air
Force), and did not play anyone who finished the season ranked in the top 20.
BYU's most impressive road win was at Pittsburgh, who finished the season 3-7-1.
Lavell Edwards' squad clinched the national championship by playing
in the Holiday Bowl against a 6-5 Michigan team, easily Bo Schembechler's worst
squad in his 21 years in Ann Arbor. "
hedgehog"The Cougars defeated only one bowl team during the
regular season"Way to compare apples to oranges hedgehog. In 1984, there were 19 bowls. It was alot harder to get into a bowl.In 2004, there were 29 bowls. In addition to Air Force(8-4),
Tulsa(6-5), Hawaii(7-4), and probably even Utah(6-5-1) would have played in a
bowl in 2004.In 1984 Air Force(8-4) beat Virginia Tech 23-7If the polls had included the Top 25, instead of only the Top 20, in 1984, Air
Force would have been ranked in the final polls.In 2004, Utahs only
three regular season opponents with winning records all went to bowls.Texas A&M(7-5) destroyed by Tennessee 7-38New Mexico(7-5) lost to
Navy 19-34Wyoming(7-5) beat UCLA 24-21Yet, despite the Cougars
less than stellar 1984 schedule, BYU still won a consensus national
championship, proof of the national cachet BYU has.Utah, with their
mediocre schedule and no national cachet, didn't even come close to a national
championship in 2004, finishing 5th in the official BCS poll.
The perfect cover(s) for EPIC fail!
Swoop,Utah had a 4th team with a regular season winning record,
North Carolina (6-5)who also went to a bowl game.If you want to
compare the 84 cougars to the 2004 Utes, lets look at the combined records of
their competition:byu 61-86-2Utah 61-76Utah played
one less game so to point out the difference, if Utah played a 13th game, the
opponent would have to be 0-10-2 to even up the competition.Skywalker, why would Washington or Nebraska turn down January top tier bowl
games with 20 times the revenue to play in a December mid tier Holiday Bowl?Also, Washington's 1985 team didn't compare to their 1984 team. They
finished the year with five losses including a loss to Washington State. You
will never know how good byu's 1984 team really was because they didn't play
anyone and had to come from behind against Wyoming, Hawaii and Michigan. byu
has had better teams that were not undefeated.
MidMajorCombined records are meaningless. You evaluate schedules on
a team by team basis.Trying to argue that playing one 11-1 team and
one 1-11 team is equivalent to playing two 6-6 teams is something only a
statistician would do.Any fan who knows anything about football
could tell you that playing one really good team and one really bad team is not
the same as playing two mediocre teams."why would Washington or
Nebraska turn down January top tier bowl games with 20 times the revenue to play
in a December mid tier Holiday Bowl?"Um, is this a trick
question?To play the #1 team for a chance to win the NATIONAL
CHAMPIONSHIP!That was Washington's problem. The Huskies thought they
could have all three, the money, the more prestigious bowl, AND a chance to win
the national championship by beating Oklahoma. Unfortunately for them, BYU was a
little more highly respected than the Huskies gave them credit for.It's interesting that neither Washington nor Nebraska won their conference
championships.btw, Washington also played Michigan in 1984.Washington beat Michigan 20-11.BYU beat Michigan 24-17.
MidMajor4everNorth Carolina finished the season 6-6; maybe that's
considered a winning record in Syracuse, but up here in Park City, we consider
that a break-even record.Playing the bowl game card just shows how
desperate Utah fans are.In 1984, there were only 19 bowls.In
2004, there were 29 bowls.A second grader could do the math to
calculate that TWENTY more teams played in bowls in 2004, than in 1984.Slice it anyway you like, but bottom line:Utah 2004 played THREE
regular season opponents that finished with winning records: Texas
A&M(7-5), Wyoming(7-5), and New Mexico(7-5)BYU 1984 played FOUR
regular season opponents that finished with winning records:Tulsa(6-5), Hawaii(7-4), Air Force(8-4), and Utah(6-5-1)Guaranteed, playing Hawaii, Air Force and Utah on the road was ALOT tougher
than playing Wyoming and New Mexico on the road.That's the funny
thing about stats and SOS; they don't give a true picture of reality.
Hedgie...seems like that was Bo's fault not BYU's...and the Holiday bowls for
inviting Michigan as well as Barry Schwitzer's fault for his Schooner's falling
flat on thier faces and Coach James for his Huskies not looking great and for
Nebraska for stumbling also when it counted blah...blah...blah...the bottom line
is dude... BYU went undefeated...it was the only one standing... and it got all
the votes... there is no glass pedistal...and even dynamyte can't bring the 84
Championship down...so being a pesty fly in the ointment is just that...a pesty
fly in the ointment.
The last 20 years in football, BYU has 9 top 25 finishes, utah 5. Before you all
start saying that is ancient history, lets get more current. Last 10
years BYU 5 top 25, Utah 5, notice anything? All of utahs finishes have come in
the last 10 years, actually the last 7 years, 4, 5, 21, 18 and 23. BYU during that time 12, 15, 15, 21, 24.These are the COACHES, not
the writers polls, which do you want to believe knows the most about football
and teams? Coaches or writers, before you answer remember 1984 was number 1 by
both.Not that the past makes any difference only the future will
tell and all of you can predict but playing the game is the only way to decide
who was better, not that it really matters. There will be excuses by each, the
winner will have done better expcept for..... and the looser would have won
except for.....I enjoy u all, because of the passion you show for
your teams. Go to the games and cheer your team on, once the game is over leave
it at the field. The players sure do.