Dennis,Good point. Not only is it silly, it posits a punishing god
who will whip us into obedience. But the behavior of people who are punished for
sins and rewarded for goodness is not genuine behavior. It is merely a response
to the punishing god. In the same way, we don't give credit nor blame to the
rats in the mazes who are manipulated by rewards and punishments to
"solve" the maze. So it is that the followers of a punishing and
rewarding god deserve no more credit or blame than a dumb animal deserves.In an important sense, the only path to authentic righteousness is
There is no such thing as being "saved". Different denominations
aside, this entire sentiment is simply a fear based motive to keep us all in
line with our different beliefs. Do what's right and you'll be saved, don't do
as I say and you'll be forever damned. It's so silly.
RE: sharrona To affirm free will does NOT compromise grace.Grace is given where we can not dofor ourselves.Through Adam and
Eves' actions we a have suffered spritual death and physical death,Spiritual death was overcome by the atonement of Jesus Christthrough repentance we can cleanse ourselves so we may be able to return to
God's presence (no unclean thing can enter God's Kingdom),Physical
death was overcome through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
otherwise, we would be trapped in our current state and could not progress in
perfection.These are the things we could NOT do for ourselves. Grace is not compromised by free will.We have choice our
whether to accept Christ as our Saviour, to accept baptism, and to repent of
our sins.That we will be resurrected does not effect free will.
Very well done. I have always had a hard time defending why I continue to try
my best to do my best. The carnal man finds it easy to believe that we can do
whatever we want and not feel guilt so long as we SAY we believe. I find this
to be a walking contradiction for our actions testify of what we TRULY believe.
While it is certainly true that no individual can earn salvation, but we are all
saved by the grace of Christ, it contradicts everything Jesus taught to say that
belief only saves one man, while he who sincerely does the works of
righteousness is damned if he does not believe correctly. Both are necessary.
Jesus said this again and again, and emphasisized that our faith must be
sincere, our obedience from the heart. I like Brother Matthews parable about
salvation.A man is travelling in the desert, and runs out of water.
When he is nearly dead, he sees a well. Is this a mirage? He must excercise
his faith to go to the well and drink the water, and he is saved. If he then
goes on his way and never drinks from the well again, he will die. We must
continually drink of the living water to remain "saved."Neither empty works nor cheap, temporary repentence will do. "By this
you shall know if a man repenteth of his sins. Behold, he will confess them and
Are we saved? We are saved from the effects of spiritual death (separation from
God) by meeting the conditions that the Lord established. Salvation from
spiritual death is exaltation and is conditional. Wrong,For as in
Adam(all inherit sin) all die(*apothnesko,599),so(believe)in Christ all will be
made alive. (1 Corinthians 15:22). *die=the natural death of man,of eternal
death, eternal misery in hell.Through faith, repentance and baptism,
we are "born again".Jesus replied, Very truly I tell you, no one
can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again(*anothen,509)(John
3:3,7)*from above. To affirm free will( free agency) is to
compromise grace Martin Luther comments on self-righteousness.Salvation is
not universal but bases on the belief of each individual(Roman. 1:16, Heb 9:28,
Eph 2:8-10, Titus 3:5)
I think this was an excellent explanation of my own beliefs. I don't understand
why it is so controversial for some of other Christian faiths, but to each his
own, I guess.
Difficult topic to expound on in one minute. Better to leave it as yes Mormon's
believe we are freely saved by the grace of God. Afterall, whether you are
talking about exhaltation or salvation, every part of it is freely given from
God. Christ's sacrifice, commandments, ordinances, they are all part of the
Father's grace to his children to help them have joy.