Red roundup: ESPN's Doug Gottlieb claims J.J. O'Brien not Pac-12 level player


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  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 5, 2011 3:09 p.m.


    "As far as recruiting, I'm sure young men would rather play in a big six conference against UCLA, Stanford and Arizona over Pepperdine and Portland."

    Well maybe we should ask Josh Sharp that question? And Maybe J.J. O'Brien? Or perhaps Will Clyburn? And maybe any of about 5-6 other guys that didn't feel the allure of playing for utah or in the pac10.

    Just saying utah will be back won't make it so. As they sit today they have no prospect of "being back" anytime soon. As ute fans love to say over and over again on these boards "the past is meaningless" and I tend to agree that it true in relation to how a program will perform going forward. A great history is something to be proud of but it means nothing for the future.

    Now the dynamics of a program mean something. For instance BYU bounced back quickly because of the advantage they have in getting LDS players. They'll always have that and because of it will never be down for long. utah on the otherhand has no such advantage. It could be a looooooooong time for them.

  • MidMajor4ever Syracuse, UT
    June 4, 2011 8:30 p.m.

    Mountain West Conference Basketball Champions over the 12 years byu and Utah were members:

    Regular season champions:
    byu 6
    Utah 5

    MWC tournament champions:
    byu 1
    Utah 2

    Bottom feeder? Don't let hatred get in the way of logic.

  • MidMajor4ever Syracuse, UT
    June 4, 2011 7:52 p.m.


    I find I may be dealing with a teenager with little history in college sports so I'll be careful with my response.

    If we are just looking at this exact moment in time then byu does have a better program than Utah in basketball and Utah has a better program in football. I will give you that based on last season's records.

    Utah represented the MWC as the conference champions in March of 2009, certainly not that long ago. Speaking of NPOY, Andrew Bogut won the award just six years ago and was selected first overall in the draft.

    Utah will reload quickly. As one of the top 12 winning programs in the country that is rich in tradition, the Utes are bound to rebound.

    I understand why you are having fun with Utah's current situation but we both know it won't last long. It wasn't long ago that byu had a nine win season yet they developed into a pretty good program. Basketball programs can change quickly.

    As far as recruiting, I'm sure young men would rather play in a big six conference against UCLA, Stanford and Arizona over Pepperdine and Portland.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 4, 2011 3:16 p.m.

    We appreciate you, once again, throwing up a Strawman Argument.

    Again, Utah as currently constructed, can't compete in the WCC, let alone the Pac 10 little 2. That is a fact.

    The Coat-Tail Mentality of Utah will only take you as far as a regular rotation in a Pac12 Conference schedule.

    It's the point Ute fans have been missing all along.

    Conference Affiliation means nothing, if you are the designated bottomfeeder of your Conference.

    And the Networks just showed Utah where they rank in the Pac 12.

    Again, every Conference has, by design, doormats. Vanderbilt, Wazzu, Baylor, Rutgers, Utah, etc.

    I'm glad you can do basic math, but the present is what matters. Right? Isn't that what Ute fans have always said?

    Does a young Recruit notice BYU on National TV for every game, Basketball and Football?

    While Utah is not?

    Do they notice the NPOY in College Basketball was a Cougar?

    Do they notice a packed Marriott Center and an empty Huntsman?


    Is Utah a Brand the Big Networks want to highlight for their telecasts? NO
    Or are they just one of twelve?

    BYU on the other hand is just that, thank you.

  • MidMajor4ever Syracuse, UT
    June 4, 2011 2:35 p.m.

    blue and bluto, you guys crack me up!

    If you really want to compare the two comferences then we will. Rather than look at championships (which the PAC dominates) let's look at total NCAA Tournament wins.


    San Francisco 21
    Gonzaga 15
    byu 12
    Santa Clara 11
    LMU 5
    Pepperdine 5
    St. Mary's 3
    San Diego 1
    Portland 0

    Total - 73


    UCLA 99
    Arizona 43
    Utah 35
    Stanford 21
    California 19
    Washington 17
    Arizona St. 13
    Oregon 12
    Oregon St. 12
    USC 12
    Colorado 9
    Washington St. 6

    Total - 298

    byu is a good fit for the WCC based on their history. Only Colorado and Washington St. have fewer wins than byu from the PAC-12.

    Good luck to both teams. Utah will recover quickly and return to their winning ways and Coach Rose will continue to have a successful program, even though the WCC will create a challenge for him recruiting.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    June 4, 2011 1:43 p.m.

    MidMajor / VegasUte

    WCC Cellar Dwellers > Utah
    BYU > WCC and PAC 10 champions

    San Diego 67 Utah 64
    Portland 88 Utah 79

    San Diego finished dead last in the WCC at 2-12, 6-24.
    Portland finished 5th in the WCC.

    on the other hand

    WCC champion Gonzaga 67 BYU 89
    PAC 10 champion Arizona 65 BYU 87

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    June 4, 2011 12:04 p.m.


    "We're gonna be more visible, and we're gonna be playing against better competition."

    It'll be hard for any recruiter to make the argument that the Utes will be more visible when BYU become a regular on ESPN.

    Better competition? Not necessarily, especially if BYU schedules some strong non-conference teams and Gonzaga and Saint Mary's continue to produce strong teams.

    With BYU, the WCC could easily become a regular 3 bid league, and playing in the NCAA tournament is what it's all about.

    If BYU continues making regular appearances in the Big Dance (five straight and counting), recruits aren't going to be that impressed with Utah, especially since it could be years before Utah becomes competitive again.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 4, 2011 11:57 a.m.


    "Regarding how Utah should recruit against BYU for basketball players, Gottlieb said the Utes should say, "We're in a better conference. We're gonna be more visible, and we're gonna be playing against better competition."

    Any of you Cougar fans disagree with those comments?"

    It all depends on what type of OOC schedule BYU puts together. Gonzaga has done very well scheduling good OOC competition.

    Jon Wilner who's been breaking alot of the news on the PAC 12's new television deal, had this to say about the WCC:

    "I expect the caliber of play [in the WCC] to be much closer to the Pac-12/Mountain West level than to the WAC/Big West level. And its fairly easy to envision a scenario in which the WCC is markedly better than the backsliding MWC."

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 4, 2011 6:30 a.m.

    @MidMajor4ever (within the Pac little 2)

    Seriously that's all you've got?

    The same WCC, which the Utes lost to twice, thrice, last season?

    Sorry guys, your phony & contrived BCS status does not apply to Basketball. That's a Football Construct. An Illegal, Anti-Trust Violating Caste System.

    What are the odds the U of U has more National TV games than BYU this year, in Basketball? We all know how Football shakes out.

    Gonzaga had 14 games on ESPN last year. Utah? and with ESPN holding the rights to all of BYU's home games and a nice WCC contract to boot, and Naitonal BYU-tv, coverage is awesome for the Cougs, again, where can we see the Mighty utes play?


  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    June 4, 2011 4:11 a.m.

    This is a perfect example of the utter hypocrisy going around these boards.

    You can't read a Y article without seeing some blue fan whining and moaning about the presence of Ute fans on "their" stories. Then, when they post rampantly on U articles, they try and act like it's somehow different.

    Sorry boys, but if you insist on slinging the "obsessed with BYU" card, you best serve yourself first. This is the second story in two days that I've seen widespread Y trolling on a Utah article.

  • SeattleUhasabballteam? Seattle, WA
    June 4, 2011 1:11 a.m.


    This is the 3rd article where you have ran your WCC smack. Well the WCC smacked the Utes this year with a 3-0 record.

    you bring up woeful losing records: utah has 4 of those in the last 6 years.

    Are the 15,000 empty red chairs in the HC in bounds or out of bounds?
    Just curious.

  • UteMan South Jordan, UT
    June 3, 2011 11:01 p.m.

    @ Broom Hockey Chump

    I beleive the Utes beat New Mexico twice this year, but thank you for your comments that are both innacurate and irrelevant. Sort of like how it should feel to be a cougar fan. Innacurate in all of your pre-season predictions of success and irrelevant in the future.

    @ DNEWS - Can we put a filter on the cougar troll comments on Utah articles? Other than some occasional pure comedy, they add no real value.

    I would like to invite fans of our new rivals from Colorado to chime in on the subject.

  • MidMajor4ever Syracuse, UT
    June 3, 2011 9:26 p.m.


    This is about basketball and byu did not go indepentent in basketball, they joined the powerful WCC. Let me help you understand that ESPN will not be televising your basketball games like they will your football games.

    duckhunter thinks that MOST of byu football and basketball games will be shown on ESPN! "Basicly BYU fans will now see every football and basketball game their team plays. Most of them will be on ESPN and those that aren't will be on BYUtv. No other school has that level of exposure, period." So that would mean that over 50% of the combined number of football games + basketball games would be televised by ESPN! I can't quit laughing! Thank you so much for the humor. Little brother's are always good at making big brother laugh, thanks!

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 3, 2011 6:22 p.m.

    @Rock of the Marne

    Hey Utes

    You've just been invited to the Pac 10 little 2!

    What are you going to do next?

    We're going to FOX NET or VERSUS or KUTV or KJZZ.

    Hey BYU, you just went Indpendent in Football, what are you going to do next?

    We're going to National TV, EVERY GAME, 6 ESPN Games announced so far, with 2 more coming.

    It's great to be Big Brother.

    Brand, Cache and Legacy trumps Wazzuland Hot Air, all day long.

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    June 3, 2011 5:36 p.m.

    @Ducky: By real football tradition, do you mean a dominant win record against our biggest rival? Two BCS wins? A move Upward to the Conference of Champions? More (and higher profile) players in the NFL than our little brothers? Not quite the flash in the pan you are trying to make us out to be, is it? If you really want to LOL, just think about the "mythical" nc your team has, it makes the rest of the country LOL too!

    Go Utes!! Go Crimson!!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 3, 2011 5:30 p.m.


    It's ok, the 6-10 games that will be shown on ESPN will be plenty of exposure. The BYUtv games are mostly for the existing fans and if anyone else watches them, my guess is the other teams fans will at least watch them, then that is a bonus. The point is they are available for anyone that wants to watch them.

    One thing very interesting about this is that no other school has gone to these measures to provide their fanbase with a means to see all of their schools games. To think that a school has gone to this large of an expense to project their school to its fans and the world is really incredible.

    Basicly BYU fans will now see every football and basketball game their team plays. Most of them will be on ESPN and those that aren't will be on BYUtv. No other school has that level of exposure, period.

    As fans we are all quite satisfied with it.

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    June 3, 2011 5:24 p.m.


    "like, you know....winning?"

    What does the y know about winning when it comes to basketball? Little brother holds two records in the NCAA - most first round losses in a row in the tourney, and most tourney appearances without EVER reaching the final four. Sounds like little brother better start to learn about winning before he talks about Big Brother's lack of it.

    Go Utes! The future is bright, the future is Crimson! Get Used to it!!

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    June 3, 2011 5:12 p.m.

    It is really funny that y people are on here commenting on Utah basketball. The only national prominence the y has in basketball is for futility. Isn't it the y that holds the record for most first round NCAA tourney losses in a row? They even made Sporting News' top 10 list for sports most dubious records for their 26 NCAA appearances WITHOUT a single final four appearance. Utah has a tremendous NCAA winning record and rank in the top 20 for most wins in the NCAA tournament. On the other hand, little brother has a woeful losing record! Too funny! I guess it is only right that they move down to the WCC, where if it wasn't for Bill Russell and John Stockton, there would be no proof of it's existence.

    Here's a serious question though - In the WCC, are the walls in the basketball courts in bounds or out of bounds? Just curious.

    Go Utes! Go Crimson!!

  • ImaCaMan Redlands, CA
    June 3, 2011 1:33 p.m.

    Hey Broom, the average college FB fan will more likely find a game on Versus than they ever will on BYU TV. No one outside of the LDS church, and I mean no one, even knows this channel exists.

    This "national exposure" is great for church members and Y fans that previously couldn't see the games. However, it means absolutely nothing to the average FB fan. I'd start working on the 1 billion Chinese and get them interested in FB.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 3, 2011 12:47 p.m.


    "We're in a better conference. We're gonna be more visible, and we're gonna be playing against better competition."

    Well that sounds simple enough. Doesn't seem to be working though so they may have to try something else, like, you know....winning?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 3, 2011 12:41 p.m.

    Hey great point gordo. Get back to us when you have a real football tradition, not just a flash in the pan, and win a National Championship.


  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    June 3, 2011 8:48 a.m.

    The best news for the Utes is they don't have to play against Jimmer again! Yes, things are definately looking up for the Utes!

  • JustGordon Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 3, 2011 4:39 a.m.

    Glad to see that those who know more than the experts are mewing their opinions. Makes me laugh! The Utes will be better than the dire predictions from Utah country, after all Utah has real basketball tradition, not just a flash in the pan tradition when they happen to have a player they can ride to the NCAA's, but never to the Final Dance, nor even to the Final Four nor even to the Elite Eight! Guess Jimmer wasn't that good! When you have a number 1 draftee in the NBA and do all the previous several times, then and only then can you mew.

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    June 3, 2011 12:24 a.m.

    Regarding how Utah should recruit against BYU for basketball players, Gottlieb said the Utes should say, "We're in a better conference. We're gonna be more visible, and we're gonna be playing against better competition."

    Any of you Cougar fans disagree with those comments?

  • MidMajor4ever Syracuse, UT
    June 2, 2011 10:09 p.m.

    Hey Broom....

    This is a BASKETBALL article, your independence comment didn't make sense since your cougs are now part of the WCC!

    FYI: PAC-12 > WCC; MWC > WCC; WAC > WCC

  • Real Bass Idaho Falls, ID
    June 2, 2011 8:32 p.m.

    JJ may not be pac10.2 material but he was the us second best player...so how would you define competitive with no name players, jcs,and uninspiring freshmen?

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    June 2, 2011 7:54 p.m.

    Wow, great to see that the Cougar fans just can't stay away. First two comments from Cougars.

    It's nice to see Utah basketball getting some good press from an independent source.

    Also nice to see things shaping up for Alex Smith in San Francisco. I hope this is a solid year for him.

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    June 2, 2011 7:50 p.m.

    Surprise surprise the first two comments on here are fans of the Mid Major uninvited team to Provo. Way to show your little brotherness; classic.

  • Cougs4Life Gilbert, AZ
    June 2, 2011 6:57 p.m.

    Looks like the Utes finally got another nationally televised game...on VS? Wasn't that they channel they sometimes got to be seen on when they were in the MWC? Doesn't seem like much has changed at all...

  • Broom Hockey Champ Alpine, UT
    June 2, 2011 5:56 p.m.

    Does Coach Crisco have some revealing pictures of Doug Gottlieb or something? No way the Utes are competitive. They couldn't even beat teams in the MWC like CSU and New Mexico.

    Then Douglas goes on to say that J.J. O'Brien, one of their better players, is not pac 10.2 worthy?

    Independence > pac 10.2