We have not enforced the criminal part of illegal immigration for years. We
don't fine them or imprison them unless they have committed other crimes. We
have enforced the civil part of the law, which is deportation. We
don't break up families, they are welcome to return home to their country of
origin as a family unit. I'm sick of hearing how we should be
compassionate, yet it's ok for them to break immigration laws, steal jobs, steal
ID's and depress our wages. And business that hire them are far from
compassionate towards their fellow citizens. When citizens break
laws, we have to pay the appropriate fine, so should Foreign citizens. Let an
American steal someones identity or use false id's, and we go to jail. A foreign
citizen here illegally working gets caught, our government turns them loose to
find a new ID or job.
I am white, LDS, a conservative and I do not support state-recognition of
same-sex marriage. I am Utah born and love my state.Before I make my
case- I am not saying 'kick them out' or 'let them stay' I am ONLY talking about
maintaining moral integrity and dignity in our nation.They have
committed a crime. All those who wish to arrest them ought to look in a mirror
before casting their stones. I dar say, we must arrest those who went 2 miles
over the speed limit. Arrest them all! - How logical is this mentality?
"Criminal" is used to make one look evil to the sheep-like masses.Document them, vote on a solution - whatever, but saying 'we should
arrest them all as they are criminals' willingly ignores something- broken laws
do not always warrant imprisonment. - I welcome legitimacy and welcome
ultra-tight security for illegitimacy. I do NOT welcome mistreating people and
splitting families apart without first giving a chance to finding an alternative
mutually beneficial solution. Disagree? Then cast your stones. But those who
cannot forgive and are quick to judge- they will also be judged.
I don't agree with this lawsuit. I believe that if you enter this country
illegally and then get married, or live with someone who is here illegally, than
you both have broken the law and should be held accountable. I don't feel one
bit sorry for those people who get caught you both broke the law. If you come
here on a Visa and it expires and you don't renew it before it lapes than you
are here illegally and should face deportation and if a person aids you in
staying here than you too have broke the law and should charge and face the
IMO, the issue that the LGBT community is trying to highlight is that the couple
who is being scrutinized in the article is unable to join themselves as a legal
couple. As a result the ability to stay in the US based on marriage is no
longer a valid point. Regardless of the fact that he overstayed his visa
(illegal I recognize) the point that is trying to be made is that he will have
to leave his partner if he can't find another legal reason to stay. This is not
the case with a heterosexual couple. The heterosexual couple has the option of
marrying and applying for citizenship as a result of that marriage. The lawsuit
is an attempt at evening the playing field so to speak. This will open up the
floodgates for other minority partnerships (polygamy, cohabitation, etc) to
attempt to redefine the "marriage" requirement. Immigration law is in
need of an overhaul and unfortunately there is no fair answer. The problem
becomes how you decide the degree of fairness to attempt.
Over 20 years ago Senator Alan Simpson said that the immigration debate brought
about (quote) the goofiest ideological bedfellow activity I've ever seen.(end
quote)This surely proves it.
"I don't see how Utah can criminalize cohabitation with an undocumented
alien spouse, straight or otherwise."Utah is not criminalizing
anything regarding "cohabitation" in this Law. The
criminal acts occur when the person knowingly crosses a border without
authorization, stays in the country beyond the legally length, and then
continues to commit criminal acts regarding false claims when applying for
Driver's Licenses, submitting false tax identification numbers with employers,
failure to pay legally required taxes, or file false tax returns - just to name
a few. As with most breaches of moral or ethical behavior, it is not a solitary
event. These are not just misdemeanors. Oh what a tangled web we
@charlie91342 | 2:23I think you would be wise to "get *your*
facts straight."Coming into the U.S. without proper clearance
and documentation (read that **permission**) is a violation of U.S. CRIMINAL
CODE: TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part VIII > § 1325
Improper entry by alienCivil Offense: Caught at the border while
trying to enter the U.S. illegallyMisdemeanor: Being in the U.S.
illegallyMisdemeanor ChargesA misdemeanor is a CRIMINAL
charge. Misdemeanor offenses are a lessor offense than a felony, but they are
not without penalties, some of which can have very devastating effects on a
person's life including the inability to obtain certain jobs, qualify for
bonding, or receive governmental aid such as school loans.According
to FBI statistics:1) 99% of long term "over-stayers" (people who
enter on a visa and stay 3 or more months past their date to depart the country)
never intended to leave on time. This is visa fraud and is a criminal
offense.2) 99% of illegal aliens commit their first felony within 30 days
of entering the country.
Many straight couples where one is here illegally are deported. The local media
has covered a few of them in articles here. If Gay people cannot use
the same recourse, it's because of Federal law, not state. It's the Federal
government that holds the hearings and trials, Utah just turns them over. You have no complaint, if separated it's because of Federal not state
courts. And Federal law makes it against the law to provide housing. Before supporting things, it pays to check them out, including Federal law,
and who runs the deportation court system.
So, the LGBT crowd is in favor of people disobeying the laws of this country?Do they favor ignoring people who harass LGBTs or attack them?You cannot be in favor of enforcing some laws and ignoring others.This just shows that their attraction to the liberal agenda is stronger than
@PraxisAs an immigrant myself, I'm quite aware of the requirements. I
never said anything about automatically.My only point is that people in
love who are straight can marry and resolve the visa situation, the speed of the
process will vary from case to case. However, Gay people who are in love and
facing a similar visa situation, they cannot use the same recourse. Gay
citizens and straight citizen do not enjoy the same privileges in the United
States of America. I'm not even passing judgment, I'm just stating a fact.
RE: Pagan Noe of what say or any headline you give changes the fact
that it is a choice,Not any anecdote, no claims of failed change,
not any poltically correct statements from questionable organizations, changes the fact it is a choice.a chosen behavior and
lifestyle.Change may be very difficult to near impossible, but
that does not make it any less a choice.and trying to ligitimize
that choice via the immigration debate does not change it either.
@Baccus0902 | 3:03You seem to be under the false belief that just
because a visa holder marries a U.S. citizen they are automatically granted
residency. So, your effort to deflect from the main issue and make this about
marriage equality doesn't work.The man knew full well the terms of
his visa. He could easily have applied for residency and since he "received
training to become a doctor" he would have had better than average odds of
it being granted. But, he didn't.Instead, he willingly overstayed
his visa and now he must pay the consequences. It comes down to U.S. law and
Re: charlie91342 | 2:23 p.m. June 2, 2011 People who sneak into our
country in the backs of trucks or under/over the fence violate our entry laws
and hence they are here illegally. And no, they aren't illegal immigrants.
They are illegal aliens.all the comments about "illegal
immigrants" cracks me up. They are undocumented workers. Illegal means
criminal, and these are not criminal acts. Get your facts straight.
Pagan,The question was directed to you because you are the one that seems
to think they have some type of link to the "Immigration Law"
issue.Prop 8 - Those that were for the Prop, had a direct link or
concern for the issue because it affected them (Real or imagined)..LGBT has no such direct link to the Law.....
'As for you Question about the LGBT shouldn't support immigration and people
supporting prop 8: Well... What possible link does the LGBT have with
Immigration?' - Confused | 4:09 p.m. June 2, 2011 That's not a
reply. It's another question. Hint: A 'fact', will
normally have a date. Maybe even an name!
"No one should be arrested for sharing their home with the person they
love"What if that someone is a rapist, pediphile, murder, etc.?
It's called harbouring a criminal. Illegal is illegal. The problem with the
ACLU, et al, is that they are so far left they will give a free pass to anyone
but the law abiding citizen.
Pagan,Exactly what does your post of 3:20 have to do with "Utah's law
just mirrors Federal.' - RichardB | 2:56 p.m. June 2, 2011"?You
site the "List" but that has nothing to do with the new law reflecting
the Federal law. At the time of the list, there was no such law.Sometimes you are so confusing trying to understand your point. Please
clarify.As for you Question about the LGBT shouldn't support
immigration and people supporting prop 8:Well... What possible link
does the LGBT have with Immigration? in the article they object to the fact that
immigration law actually criminalizes sharing a home with an UNDOCUMENTED
person, which is no different than a family member who hides a wanted felon from
Law enforcement. So why aren't they upset about that?It's called
aiding and abetting.. Both illegal. So for the LGBT to support this is a bit
odd.As for Prop 8, people supported it because they felt that their
diffinition of Marriage and what they deemed was an attack on the institution of
Marriage. They had a valid link to the Marriage issue. LGBT has no
such link to immigration.
'...unless of course practicing tolerance hurts their cause, then they send
threats or vandalize property.' - Laser | 3:42 p.m. June 2, 2011
Wow Laser. I don't know who your talking about. But I hope they
don't ACTUALLY vandalize your property. *'Utah Pride Center
vandalized' - By Andrew Adams - KSL - 08/20/10 'SALT LAKE CITY -- Someone
spray painted a slur on a sign outside Salt Lake City's gay pride center
overnight.' While previously... *Charges filed against
neighbors of gay man acquitted of kidnapping - By Linda Thomson DSNews
03/03/10 Seven former neighbors were charged Tuesday with attacking David
James "DJ" Bell and his partner, Dan Fair, in their home after a late
night party on July 4, 2008. *Survey shows some LGBT residents dont
feel safe By Rosemary Winters SL Tribune 07/12/10 A gay man arrested for
kidnapping after being severely beaten by his neighbors. A Salt Lake City bar
fight where a same-sex couple was assaulted and called derogatory slurs. A kiss
between two men on the LDS Churchs Main Street Plaza that resulted in
I can't even keep up with the twisted logic of this group. Remember this is the
group that preaches tolerance...unless of course practicing tolerance hurts
their cause, then they send threats or vandalize property.
Utahs unconscionable new immigration law actually criminalizes sharing a home
with an UNDOCUMENTED person, even if that person is a partner or spouse, said
Victoria Neilson, the groups legal director. No one should be arrested for
sharing their home with the person they love, but that is the very real
possibility presented by this law."Undocumented really means
'And the LBGT should be aware that it's against Federal law to house an illegal
alien. Utah's law just mirrors Federal.' - RichardB | 2:56 p.m. June 2, 2011 About that.... *'The list' came from Utah DWS database,
investigators say' - By Lee Davidson and Laura Hancock - DSNews - 07/16/10 *'Source claims state finds, but hides, immigrant ID theft' - By Lee
Davidson - DSNews - 09/02/10 *'Mormon church reiterates support for
Utah immigration bills, including HB116' - By Elizabeth Stuart - DSNews -
04/20/11 Action recently: *'Deportation of illegal
immigrants increases under Obama administration' - By Peter Slevin - 07/26/10 -
Washington Post And can someone explain the contradiction here. LGBT 'shouldn't' support immigration... but other people 'have
every right' to support Prop 8?
@ SummerlinUte: "Same sex marriage or domestic partnerships are legal in
many states. If a couple moves to Utah after having entered into a lawful
marriage/partnership, Utah must accept it under the full faith and credit clause
of the U.S. Constitution ("Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each
State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other
State.")"Unfortunately, that is not true. The Defense of
Marriage Act (DOMA) states, "Section 2. Powers reserved to the statesNo State, territory, or possession of the United States, or Indian tribe,
shall be required to give effect to any public act, record, or judicial
proceeding of any other State, territory, possession, or tribe respecting a
relationship between persons of the same sex that is treated as a marriage under
the laws of such other State, territory, possession, or tribe, or a right or
claim arising from such relationship."Utah does not have to
recognize same-sex unions.
Is this some kind of sick joke? I feel like I live in the twilight zone and
things just keep getting more and more bizarre.
Same sex marriage or domestic partnerships are legal in many states. If a
couple moves to Utah after having entered into a lawful marriage/partnership,
Utah must accept it under the full faith and credit clause of the U.S.
Constitution ("Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the
public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State.") So
like it or not, samesex couples have legal rights. In any event, I don't see
how Utah can criminalize cohabitation with an undocumented alien spouse,
straight or otherwise.
@ Giuseppe @ PraxisIf you are straight and in love. You could marry your
loved one. If your loved one is in the U.S.A. with a temporary visa, you could
marry him/her and present a petition to Immigration and Naturalization to change
the status of your beloved to a permanent residency (green card).If your
beloved happens to be of your same sex, you cannot use your citizen privilege of
helping him/her to extend or change visa status.The Gay community is only
fighting for equality.
Coming here illegally is a crime(civil and criminal-misdemeanor), coming here
and working is a crime (multiple felonies). They, by lawful definition are
illegal aliens. And the LBGT should be aware that it's against
Federal law to house an illegal alien. Utah's law just mirrors Federal. When you
marry someone in the country illegally, you put yourself in a very difficult
situation legally. After the Supreme court ruling, the pro illegal
folks are grabbing at straws.
Whatever gets publicity serves the LBGT agenda.
all the comments about "illegal immigrants" cracks me up. They are
undocumented workers. Illegal means criminal, and these are not criminal acts.
Get your facts straight.
What a lame lawsuit. When it comes to enforcing immigration laws do the LBGT
folks want a special pass that no one else deserves?Sheeesh!!
What too much of society wants is lawlessness based in the cause of "love
of fellow man".
Just give it time. Now that the Supreme Court has given the OK the States will
solve the immigration problem soon enough.
"...his partner of two years, who received training to become a doctor,
overstayed his visa."The individual knowingly and willingly
violated the terms of his visa. That is considered visa fraud and it's a felony.
Sounds like this individual never intended to abide by his visa. This has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation and EVERYTHING to do with an
individual that never intended to abide by the laws of the U.S.
Uh, being an illegal immigrant is a choice, not a race as well. Let's make sure
we're clear on that.And since when was harboring a criminal okay
just because you love the criminal? That doesn't have anything to do with race,
gender preference, whether they're your brother, mother, dog, or whatever. I
believe it's still called aiding and abetting.
'I wouldn't be against their support if there were individuals in the G/L Club
who felt strongly about the illegal immigration issues.' - jasonlivy | 1:07
p.m. Annnd what makes you think they do not? Are you
claiming to speak for the LGBT community now? Speaking only for
myself, it makes sense for minorities, ANY minorities to band together for
common goals. Many choose to forget that Mormonism and the LDS
church, are a minority in America. Just, not Utah. As for
choice... *'Gay man says 'reversal' therapy did not change him' - By
Lisa Leff - Associated Press - Published by DSNews - 01/20/10 'SAN
FRANCISCO A gay man testified Wednesday in a federal same-sex marriage trial
that the "reversal therapy" he underwent as a teenager to change his
sexual orientation drove him to the brink of suicide.
*'Psychologists nix gay-to-straight therapy' - AP - 08/05/09 'The
American Psychological Association slams technique that seeks to change sexual
orientation. 'No solid evidence exists that such change is likely, says
the report, and some research suggests that efforts to produce change could be
harmful, inducing depression and suicidal tendencies.' It is
'choice' to ignore data.
Yet another way for the gay/lesbian group to convince society that they are a
'race' and should enjoy the same 'rights' as an ethnic group. To me it's
shameful and manipulative.I wouldn't be against their support if
there were individuals in the G/L Club who felt strongly about the illegal
immigration issues. However the fact that they, as a group, are involved simply
because they feel they are in the same boat makes me sick to my stomach.Being gay/lesbian is not a race! It's a choice! That will never change.
What a bunch of nonsense. LBGT folks have far more important things to worry
about than immigration enforcement....