@Hank PymI watched Oregon and Stanford. I believe TCU could have beaten
either one of them last year.PAC12 will not have two teams in BCS
bowls in 2011/2012. The winner of the north, probably Oregon, will win the
conference and get the BCS invite. Oregon and Stanford will be stronger than
any teams in the south again this year.SEC and Big10 will be the two
strongest conferences and will both get two invites. Big12 lost some strength
losing Nebraska and made some gains losing Colorado. It is still the 3rd
@ Veracity | 6:04 p.m. May 26, 2011 "The PAC 10 has been making
alot of money for a long time, still the conference was not any better than the
old MWC."Really? Did you not pay attention to the participants
in the last Orange Bowl or BCS Title game. Not to mention Pete Caroll's tenure
Dutchman,I agree with you that times are changing. But there is
quite a difference between 18yr old kids choosing where to go to college and
23-26yr old college graduates choosing to play a sport professionally. And obviously, this situation will not be an issue to every recruit, but for
many local kids there in Utah, I believe it may be more influential in their
decision than many think. But yes, there are several former BYU
athletes that have chosen to play professionally and play on sundays. That is
their personal choice. They did not once play on a sunday while on campus at
BYU. And true, many people are obligated to work on sundays, but that is due to
a career choice. It does not really apply to kids going to college.
"... times have changed."Local talent will have one more
reason to chose BYU over Utah if the Sunday activity comes into play. Regardless
of your opinion about 'changing times' this is a 'deal breaker' for most LDS
kids.It will influence recruiting. Values win again.Too
bad for U.
PSUYB,There are plenty of athletes that played for BYU that are now
playing on Sunday in the NFL, NBA and the PGA Golf tournament. If an occasional
game is played on Sunday I don't believe it will have much affect on local
recruiting. A lot of kids grow up in homes now where one or both parents are
required to work an occasional Sunday. If a young person joins the National
Guard or Reserve out of high school they will be required to perform some duties
on Sunday. I agree that Sunday is best left for religious observance but
unfortunately times have changed.
Regardless of what many Ute fans think, playing on sunday will play a factor in
recruiting the Local talent as well as national LDS/Christian athletes. True,
not every recruit will care, but many young men and women hold values and refuse
to play on Sunday.Even if the PAC did catch Sunday Primetime on ESPN
or ABC, it would not be the Utes playing on National TV unless it is @USC or
@Oregon. The Sunday primetime block would be reserved for the best of the
PAC-12, as many more people will be watching.
I have a hard time believing BYUtv's new HighDef TV infrastructure was paid for
by athletic ticket sales, or any other type of athletic revenue.BYU
sports is integral to a much larger (non-sports) marketing effort, and they are
commensuratly invested in, for that purpose. Anyone who thinks otherwise is
Bluto,The real truth is that you are misinformed. Duckhunter knows
a thing or two about this and he wrote on 5-9-2011 and has since stood by this
statement:"THE LDS CHURCH, which owns and sponsors BYU, pays
for the facilities on campus. They insist on everything being top of the line
and they pay to have it be top of the line. That includes ALL CAMPUS FACILITIES
athletic or otherwise. yes they fund raise to help pay for them but that is
all."Also, no tax money what so ever supports the Utah Athletic
programs or facilitites. RES was rebuilt with money from the Eccles family,
other donors and revenue bonds repaid by ticket and concession sales, not tax
money. The Olympics rented the facility for the opening and closing ceremony
and they got that money from their own ticket sales to the two events.Not one dime of taxpayer money is used for Utah Athletics. The U operates on
a $2.3 billion annual budget that does not include Athletics. The state funds
8% of that. It is not a myth.
@DutchmanFActs....*BYU does not use Tithing money for
any Athletic expenses.*Their facilites are paid for before construction
begins.*Maintenance endowments are established for their upkeep.*BYU
sinks or swims on their Brand, Cache and Legacy.*BYU is in the black.*Utah is funded by the the Taxpayers of Utah. Academically and
Athletically.*Taxpayers paid for Rice Eccles Stadium. (Olympics)*Utah's Endowment is smaller than BYU's and is not large enough to cover 92%
of their Budget. So much for the 8% myth.*Utah's overall budget annually
includes expenditures for the Athletic Department.*Maintenance of
facilities are paid for by taxpayers, not maintenance endowments.Truth shall set you free
@Jeff29 - It most certainly DOES have to do with money. After all this new
expansion over the last 12 months, you haven't figured that out? Every expansion
that has occurred as of late is all about the $$$.As it's been said
many many times before, it's all about TV revenue.
VegasUteYup, Reality is that the Conference of Champions once was
true...sorry though, no more. Look up my name in the dictionary...it means 'to
tell the truth'.And that is what I am doing...are you telling the
world and myself Washington State, UCLA, Oregon State, USC...etc. are better
teams than the teams in the old MWC...come on, smell the roses and get real.
Toosmartforyou and sportsauthority,I am not trying to pick a fight
with you but Duckhunter has educated me on how BYU builds facilities and he is
in the loop because his company does construction for BYU. I agree with
Duckhunter that donors do contribute to BYU but what is donated and what is
needed to complete the project with the quality the Church demands creates a
large gap that only the Church can fill. I do not drink wine but being Dutch I
do like cheese and the amounts we are talking about to build facilities are not
incidental. BYU has great facilities, just be happy that you have an owner with
commitment and deep pockets. If Utah asked the state legislature for funds to
build any athletic facilities they would be laughed at and scoffed.
This will be great for the U. I bet the coaches are beside themselves thinking
of all the upgrades this will buy. It's a boon for everyone there.
Dutchman"believe me other university presidents care where the
money comes from because they can't keep up and frankly I get tired of BYU fans
continually throwing the "better facilities" in the face of all fans
from other schools."Have some cheese with your whine, because
your complaint is nothing but sour grapes.The vast majority of funds
to build BYU's athletic facilities has come from PRIVATE donations. Sure, BYU
pays for the maintenance of the facilties and possibly some incidental costs of
construction, but the better facilities at BYU are the direct result of better
fan support.If Utah had had a perennial Top 25 team for the past
third of a century, the U would probably have a 65,000 seat stadium and better
facilities. As it is, your johnny-come-lately program is just now approaching
the calibre of team BYU has had since the 80's.
@ DutchmanWho do you think paid for the expanded 65,000 seat stadium
in Provo? It wasn't who you think; it was donors. The loges went for $100,000
each with the right to pass them on one time, IF you continued to buy season
tickets for the entire loge every year. (I joked that you got it in the name of
your youngest grandson with the stipulation that when he was ready to die he
pass it to his youngest grandson and you'd have rights to it until the
milleneum!) Mr. Huntsman isn't the only person to open his wallet for his
favorite school. I'm glad he does as well as those who suppoprt BYU, too. Utah
will expand their stadium when the big donors start signing checks.
Mussingwith U,Take the support of the LDS Church out of the
facilities equation and BYU's facilities are equal to Utah's. Recruits don't
care but believe me other university presidents care where the money comes from
because they can't keep up and frankly I get tired of BYU fans continually
throwing the "better facilities" in the face of all fans from other
@ DutchmanNo tithing pays for any BYU Football---not even a
nickel.So what's your point? Both schools have great facilities.
And the old rivalry game was USU - Utah so after Lavell came to town that
changed, too.Two schools in the country are in the black in Football
and one of them is BYU. THe article I read didn't identify the other, but with
Notre Dame, Florida, LSU, Ohio State, USC, Oklahoma, etc I'm confident the 2nd
one isn't located in Salt Lake City.Good luck to the Utes, but after
watching college football for decades in the State of Utah, I'm of the opinion
that the Utes are in for a tough haul.Yes, I'm pleased they are
making a lot more money in the PAC 12. Congratulations.Utah needs
to up-grade their mens basketball program, track and field, etc.
Just the FAX "Besides USC, when was the last time a PAC 10 team
won a concensus major college football national championship (#1 in both the AP
and Coaches Final Polls)?"Trick question FAX man. The
conference wasn't founded until 1959.
Dutchman"without the funding support of the LDS Church BYU's
facilities would be about where Utah's are"Which is relevant
because...?Recruits couldn't care less whether the facilities they
see on campus were paid for by tax dollars, church funds, Nike, Jon Huntsman or
simply sprang out of the earth by magic.
Bluto,"Utah needs the extra money and about 20 years just to
catch up to BYU's facilities."Would you please backup the
"20 years to catch up" comment? Citing a source from Chris Hill or
his equal would be appreciated.There is one thing Duckhunter and I
agree on and that is without the funding support of the LDS Church BYU's
facilities would be about where Utah's are.
VegasUte"It's called the Conference of Champions for a
reason!"Besides USC, when was the last time a PAC 10 team won a
concensus major college football national championship (#1 in both the AP and
Coaches Final Polls)?Hint: BYU has won more concensus major college
football national championships than the rest of the PAC 10 COMBINED!!!Conference of Championship indeed.
And these are their athletic budgetsSchool Revenue / ExpensesArizona - $39,655,034 / $40,760,160Boise St - $16,693,080 /
$16,632,465Colorado - $35,851,791 / $36,614,714Indiana - $37,968,912
/ $38,805,232Kentucky - $54,536,426 / $52,462,483Maryland -
$46,508,648 / $46,508,648Michigan - $78,424,186 / $61,387,144Ohio St
- $89,700,979 / $89,580,305Oregon - $39,976,635 / $40,107,833Rutgers
- $37,997,629 / $37,997,629Texas - $89,651,682 / $82,400,829U of
Utah - $25,506,145 / $21,311,639UCLA - $46,013,054 / $46,010,599Wash
St - $28,391,053 - $27,873,563Washington - $43,197,964 / $45,423,346
These are the teamsArizona - Boise St Colorado - Indiana - Kentucky - Maryland - Michigan - Ohio St -
Oregon - Rutgers - Texas - U of Utah UCLA - Wash St - Washington -
Rank the Football Teams based on Athletic BudgetRevenue /
Expenses$39,655,034 / $40,760,160$16,693,080 / $16,632,465$35,851,791 / $36,614,714$37,968,912 / $38,805,232$54,536,426 /
$52,462,483$46,508,648 / $46,508,648$78,424,186 / $61,387,144$89,700,979 / $89,580,305$39,976,635 / $40,107,833$37,997,629 /
$37,997,629$89,651,682 / $82,400,829$25,506,145 / $21,311,639$46,013,054 / $46,010,599$28,391,053 - $27,873,563$43,197,964 /
Why is it that, even though this article is about the great new PAC TV deal, all
williary, Hedgehog, Timp, junkmail and crowntown can only focus on BYU? Grow up, boys, and just enjoy our good fortune. Your rhetoric is tired.
THey aren't even in our Conference anymore. It's time to let go and move on.
When you continually focus on them, you look insecure and diminish our
accomplishments. In short, you validate their claim that we are "little
brothers," because you all are acting the part. ====As for the article: Woo Hoo! Go Utes!
junkmail "It's not like BYU printed out T-shirts that said "BCS
Busters 2008." Do you not see the difference?" There is a
huge difference. One school thought they were better than they were and bragged
about it BEFORE they accomplished a goal. Then they got embarrassed by their
lack of greatness and all the shirts became a joke. The other school
accomplished something, is extremely proud of the accomplishment, and shows it
on t-shirts celebrating the ACCOMPLISHMENT of a goal! Huge, HUGE difference.
BTW, why would the y ever print T-shirts that said BCS Busters
anyway - never has happened and never will. LOLGo Utes!! Go PAC
12!! Go Mt. St Marys!!
Veracity - "The PAC 10 has been making alot of money for a long time, still
the conference was not any better than the old MWC."??? Really?
Reality - it is a word in the dictionary, please look it up!!It's
called the Conference of Champions for a reason!Go Utes! Onward and
"but the overwhelming reason was religion" .... serious? You still
playing that card? Whatever gets you through the night!!Love it!
Go Utes!!The future is bright, the future is Crimson!! get Used to
Hedgehog...it is not how much you make, it is what you do with it.The PAC 10 has been making alot of money for a long time, still the conference
was not any better than the old MWC.What will be your excuse when
you have all this money and are still losing more game than you win?
toosmartforyou,"I won't be dinged to support them as much as
before."Not one dime of your tax money has ever gone to support
the U's athletic programs or facilities. The state barely funds the academic
programs at the U. The U's non athletic budget is a $2.3 billion enterprise and
the state funds 8% of that. You should celebrate that hundreds of jobs are
created there through research and business spin offs that keep this state's
economy going or you may find life pretty hard there in Farmington.
As a fan this is great. But as a student, I can only see this helping me and my
academic future. Which in reality is way more important than a game. Better
professors, better facilities, better education. What a blessing it is going to
be to be in the PAC12!
Yes Utah will bring in more dollars than BYU, from TV.And so will
Washington State.Question is, will BYU have more Exposure?How
many National Games for BYU vs Utah on the Big ESPN Network.Right
now it's about 6 or 8 to 1 in BYU's favor.Utah needs the extra money
and about 20 years just to catch up to BYU's facilities.Their
competition is not BYU, they already have a great ESPN contract. Utah's
competition is with the other Pac 12 schools, in which they'll never catch
up.Utah will have the money and yet still be a cellar dweller.
THen how come BYU has no problem endorsing former players that play in the NFL
and on a SUNDAY. But while they are in school it's a no no.
@williaryI like your logic. Let's apply it to Lavell Edwards and
oh, say..., Opportunity Urban, ok? Who had perfect seasons? Both. Who won a
National Championship? Who "failed," to use your own term. My, isn't
that an interesting comparison? Oh, it also works for Edwards vs. Whittingham,
too. Or if you think I'm "picking on the Utes" try Edwards vs. Frank
Cush at ASU (I'm sure you're old enough to remember when ASU was undefeated but
only ended up #2....that has to hurt a bit, huh?)So enjoy the money,
dude. Keep telling your self that "it's the money....."
@ HedgeIf it's not worth discussing, we are you discussing it? I couldn't be happier that the Utes are going to make lots of money
because as a taxpayer that means I won't be dinged to support them as much as
before. Maybe they will get a decent sized stadium, too, and be able to fill it
on a Sunday, since maybe that's when they'll be playing. Go for it. Just don't
complain if the money is the best part of the deal when the Utes don't win
regularly in the PAC 12, which you and I both know is a distinct possibilty.I'd sure enjoy reading a news story about the Utes where you didn't see
the need to bash BYU. But alas, that's against your very nature, so I'll just
smile and enjoy it.
Larry scott is quoted in the article as saying the pac-12 network would keep
first choice of all of the games. That is amazing to me that ESPN/FOX ponied up
the $225 million per year deal just for the second choice of games.
congrats for moh money for the utes :)
williary,I never said BYU didn't have a quest for perfection. They
did print it on T-shirts. My issue is that you and so many others see that as
arrogance. It's a goal. A quest. Utah had that exact same goal, and good for
them, accomplished it. How in the world is it arrogance to have a goal? It's not like BYU printed out T-shirts that said "BCS Busters
2008." Do you not see the difference?
What kept BYU out of the PAC12 was their academic policies...The
PAC12 universities did not want to be affiliated w/ an academic institution who
restricted/monitored/fired professors if they contradicted church
policies/teachings.Obviously there were other issues as well, but
IMO, that was issue #1.
@junkmailCorrection. BYU had a "Quest For Perfection."
They printed it on shirts.Utah kept their mouths shut, took care of
business, and obtained a perfect season. While BYU failed.BYU's "Quest For Perfection" was intended to end with a destination
of a BCS game. Just accept that fact and stop covering for Bronco. He called
his shot, and failed. While Utah finishes it for him.
re: Wedgie"Ok, can we just lay to rest the silly debate on
wether the Utes or ByU will be making more money."Congratulations, you have finally reached the same level as Washington State
in both TV money and the "who cares about us" factor.
Jeff29,I have thought a lot about this and I dont believe it is
about religious bigotry as you state. The presidents of the universities make
the decisions regarding conference membership and I dont believe they are
religious bigots. In fact most of them probably have a Mormon on their staff.
I believe from the presidents point of view it has more to do with the fact that
BYU as a private institution can, at the drop of a hat, build top notch
facilities with donor support but more importantly big support from the LDS
Church. The state funded PAC 10 schools already compete against two private well
heeled universities, Stanford and USC. Lets face it, private schools have a lot
to offer in terms of academic standing and well funded athletic facilities. I
just think the state funded PAC 10 schools did not want to go head to head with
another private school and that is why BYU was not on the invitation list. Many
of these schools have had Mormons serve as presidents.
williary-A quest is a journey or effort. Utah had a "quest for
perfection" at the beginning of the 2008 season, as did every other team.
How shallow is the English program at the U if so many U fans see "quest
for perfection" as a destination instead of a desire?
@12:48You start with:"...All the TV money in the
PAC-12 should be a big boost to the UTES...".then you go
with:"... money doesn't solve everything...".and"...money might be nice...".then you end
with:"...this looks like a big boon for the UTES...".I like your opening and closing thoughts.Thanks for not
playing the victim card.
Great time to be a UTE!!!!
@Jeff29Whatever makes you feel better about the situation. Fact is if those "Quest For Perfection" shirts had really told
the Cougars future, instead of the Utes, BYU might have been considered.
All the TV money in the PAC-12 should be a big boost to the Utes but money
doesn't solve everything. Utah and BYU both did very well this past decade in
football on quite meager budgets. Now that Utah will have 10X the money (just a
rough estimate) are they going to do 10X better? Are they even going to better
at all? Who knows? Will BYU do better with more money? Who knows? Personally, I
don't think the extra money Utah gets compared to BYU will make any difference.
There's a law of diminishing returns. Yes, that money might be nice but
oftentimes extra money in the athletic department goes to support other
university programs (that's how it works at many public universities).More money can help but only up to a point. In any case, this looks like a big
boon for the Utes.
"Sunday play was a patial issue, but the overwhelming reason was religion
(i.e. the Bay Area schools would never let the Mormon school into the PAC -
especially after Prop 8)."Jeff,No arguement from
me. You reap what you sow.
And the cost of tuition just keep going up...
@Jeff29If it has to do with religion, why did Washington just hire
Michael Young who is a Mormon?Larry Scott for president.
@UfanNot a chance. Everyone says the same thing about Jazz games.
Yet you play a playoff game on a Sunday afternoon, and ESA is packed full. You move ASU @ Utah to a Sunday, full house.
Ufan,Ever see a Jazz game in Salt Lake on Sunday? When they had
them the arena was always full. Once the TV camera even caught LaVelle Edwards
taking in a game on Sunday. If the game is scheduled late in the day when
church meetings are over with it will be no problem.
Hahaha!....Silly little hedge! When will Ute fans learn? It's not about how much
you make...It's about who and if anyone cares!
Yes hedgehog, we can. The Utes will make more money.Can we also lay
to rest the silly debate as to why the Utes were invited to the PAC 12 and not
the Cougs? It had nothing to do with athletics, nothing to do money, and very
little to do with academics. Sunday play was a patial issue, but the
overwhelming reason was religion (i.e. the Bay Area schools would never let the
Mormon school into the PAC - especially after Prop 8).
RES will be half empty if the PAC 12 moves one of Utah's home games to Sunday.
From the CBS article:"..schools like Utah could earn an
additional $8.3-$11.9 million per year from Pac-12 Media Enterprises. That would
be on top of the $21 million per year average the new broadcast deal with ESPN
and Fox will produce for each member."Can I just say, WOW!
Keep in mind, Utah will also be getting millions more per year in merchandising
revenue sharing, bowl revenue sharing, etc. Welcome to the
Conference of Champions. 40 million per year, baby!!
gotta hand it to larry scott, he's working real hard to push the pac 12.
Ok, can we just lay to rest the silly debate on wether the Utes or ByU will be
making more money.It's not even worth a discussion.