Oh yes, it was a great speech indeed. Besides the fact that Obama has completely
destroyed and slapped all of our allies in the face, I think he's done well. He
basically told Israel to put themselves in another holocaust and erase the
borders so the Palestines and Muslims could come get them. Way to offend our
one and only friend there Obama.
Dear TOO: Perhaps you should have listened to the speech, rather than the
regurgitated reactions from the typical opponents?
Speech was most perfect?Are you kidding? Your editorial ends with
the following quote: I guess there would be six million fewer Jews
in the region.Is this what you think should happen to the Jews?
This president is most irresponsible for making a suggestion that would subject
Israel to direct attack as if they are not already having problems from the PLO,
Hamas and others who hate them. If you have any appreciation for the Old
Testament you will see that things are unfolding just like they were prophecied
to happen - everyone would turn against Israel. I guess Obama wants to be the
one who wants to aid in fulfilling prophecy against the Lord's chosen people.
It appears you want to as well. BTW, the very ability to take on
Osama Bin Laden was enabled because of the interrogation techniques that were
used by the previous administration that this administration will now allow -
guess who is taking credit for it...
Obama has already started backpedaling on his comment about Israel's 1967
borders. Who is he, and who is America to think we can dictate the return of
land taken during a war. Perhaps China should give back land it took from Japan
and Russia took from Finland in WWII.
It is such a joy to read objective opinion and well thought-out content. Thank
you Mark Paredes and Deseret News.
Great Speech? Oh My!Iran's finger prints are all over the uprising
in Egypt and many other places in the region experiencing unrest including
Yemen. If Iran and her surrogates control Egypt and Yemen, they control the
narrow passages through which all shipments of oil from the Red Sea must pass.
Same goes for the Persian Gulf. With Iran about to take control of OPEC, this
does not bode well.One cannot support what is happening in Egypt and
denounce violence against Coptic Christians if it is understood what the Muslim
Brotherhood is. We will see increasing violence, if not genocide against the
Coptic people.Obama's comments on Israel were based in pure
ignorance.Obama has no love of Israel and clearly favors her Islamic
enemies. He must walk a fine line or risk a huge backlash from the American
people and American Jews.Obama has never delivered a great speech.
He is gifted at reading from a teleprompter.
We are funding the world bank and IMF both of which are corrupt vehicles for
the redistribution to Americas wealth to third world dictators. All funding
should be cut off immediately.
I would bet that this commentary is generated by a paid political staffer
affiliated with one of the Soros sponsored groups. It flies in the face of what
I hear from anyone that I have talked to or heard from who did not hide behind a
The last paragraphs have me re-thinking my previous quote.
Mr. Obama has again shown the world that being elected to office does not
include the knowledge of this world or of the people who live here. He has
offended our nation with his arrogance, with his interference in the affairs of
other countries, with his total ignorance of or respect for the Jews. Israel
is a sovereign nation. That are capable of governing themselves without his
nose stuck into their business. He, a college professor, has not done his
homework on foreign affairs. He thinks that because he sits in the Oval Office
that he is somehow qualified to pass judgment on the people of another
nation.Every time he makes a speech he shows his ignorance of the
subject, of his office as OUR President, of the duties of that office, and, most
regrettably, of the people to whom he speaks. Did he have the
"duty" to tell Israel to give their land to the people who have tried
to destroy them since 1948? Has Mr. Obama any idea that the Palestinians want
to annihilate every Jew? Does he care? Apparently not. He wants to
"change" things without knowing what the problem is.
Thank you Mr. Paredes for your insightful and balanced piece. How refreshing it
is to read a well written article that goes beyond partisan politics to
recognize the very positive accomplishments by our President. We must continue
to acknowledge the productive outcomes by leaders from all polical parties in
part to promote civility and team work. We don't need more division is this
great country we need more cooperation, compromise and mutual appreciation. How
sad that some folks can't recognize good accomplishments by someone outside of
their own political persuasion. Such narrow mindedness will only perpetuate
diviseiveness and stalemate in our republic.
Obama gives lots of speeches. Perhaps some of them are even "perfect
speeches."However, Obama's actions are alarmingly frequently
totally misaligned with the beautiful words in his mellifluous speeches.Looking at Obama's action, not just the speeches, it is clear that he
has been systematically alienating all of our traditional allies, and coddling
(if not actually aiding) our real and perceived enemies.Israel had
best take whatever actions are in their own self interest, and not depend on
promises, pleas, plans or projections made by Obama.
"A one-size-fits-all approach to protests and uprisings is most
unwise."One-size-fits-all? Is that sort of like having
principles? So, let me get this straight. If you are in Iraq or Afghanistan,
we will use force to promote regime change, but only after supporting Sadaam
Hussein and the Taliban at one time or another. If you are in Libya, we will
help you with cruise missles but no ground troops. If you are in Egypt we will
give the military a billion dollars a year even while it supported Mubarak. If
you are in Syria, we support you, sorry about all the people killed. If you are
in Cote D'ivoire, sorry, good luck. What would be so 'unwise' about a
consistent and clear position from the United States? How about we don't meddle
in the internal affairs of a sovereign country, period?
The hypocrisy of the anti-Obama camp here just beggars the imagination. With one
side of the mouth they scream about complying with the law and Constitution, but
from the other side they attack Obama for upholding the rule of international
law. The Israelis STOLE land that didn't belong to them in 1967. This is called
robbery by violence and is an unquestioned historical fact. But then
conservatives attack Obama for upholding the rule of law. So which is it? Do you
"conservatives" believe in the rule of law or do you just hate Obama
regardless of what he says or does?
@Turtle"the very ability to take on Osama Bin Laden was enabled because of
the interrogation techniques that were used by the previous administration that
this administration will now allow - guess who is taking credit for it...
"Please provide evidence of this. As I understand it, the info
that led to the death of Bin Laden came from his courier, not those who were
tortured. Call it 'enhanced interrogation' if it softens the blow to your
Obama got elected because he gives good speeches, that's it. No experience, no
relationships in Washington when he got elected. That's why after declaring
change, he put all the old politicians back in office; Clinton, etc...Same stuff, different day. USA needs a change, we need a leader who won't kiss
butt of the Mid-Eastern region, who understands business.
Iron Guy:The six day war was started by Syria, not Israel. Syria
declared they would wipe them off the map. Syria lost that war, a war they
started. Do your homework next time. Good Grief dude!
Republicans just can not accept a black, liberal Democrat. If Obama was white,
conservative Republican, he would be perfect for this party. Pity that the GOP
just can not seem to get what they want.
Only from the Obama controlled media could such an editorial be written. This
president apologizes for the US every where he goes. Does a speech in Egypt for
the muslims and now throws Israel under the bus! Why would he have to go out
and explain his speech if it was perfect? Why is he now saying that his
comments were misunderstood if the speech was so 'perfect'? Just as Allen West
said, "I just can't stand this guy".
re: Irony Guy | 10:00 a.m. May 23, 2011The United States
"stole" land from Mexico and from the native Americans. Are you ready
to give it back? Bountiful is part of the land taken from Mexico. If it's good
for Israel, it's good for you. Better pack up and be ready to move out.The Alsace region of France has been passed between France and Germany
depending on the century and the winner of the last war. Are you going to give
it to Germany or to France?Check your maps and your history. How
much of the world needs to be re-aligned if we apply Mr. Obama's
"doctrine" to every nation on earth? If he is somehow
expected to supplant our Constitution with International Law, then he had better
call in the tribal leaders and start discussions on how they want to repossess
most of the lands of the United States.
To those of you who also think that Obama is on the right track. Lets take a
look at what at the people in that part of the world that Obama supports:In Egypt we read "12 dead in Egypt as Christians and Muslims
clash" in the Washington Post. They outline how some ultraconservative
Muslims are attacking Christians, without fear.The Muslim
Brotherhood has significant influence in Egypt and is pushing for Sharia Law.
See "Egypt Women Clash Over Sharia Law After Tahrir Shows Equality" at
Bloomberg. Sharia law is not freedom promoting. The Egyptians as a whole had
more freedom under Mubarak.In Lybia, those courageous rebels that
Obama supported are also tied to Al Qaeda. In the UK Telegraph we read
"Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links" where
we find out that the rebels were recruiting people with very strong ties to
terrorists.Obama supports the Tunsinian protestors, who are backed
by Hezbollah. See "Hezbollah Supportive of Egyptian, Tunisian Uprisings
But Not Syria's" available through various sources.It seems
like everywhere you turn Obama is supporting terrorists.
Of course the speech was perfect. This is Barry Huessein Obama that can't do
anything wrong in the medias eyes. Look past all of his flaws, failures,
mis-steps, finger pointing, biases....he's really not that bad of a guy. He
just happens to be very generous with other peoples money and to businesses that
cater to him. But this is different from what we're used to.
TOO:Thanks for your point of view. Straight outta Sanpete. You gotta
His speach was a complete and utter slap in the face of the only friendly ally
in the middle east. No, Isreal is not perfect but, neither are we. Our
president has proven that he is an arab/muslem at heart. We need to eject this
administration as fast as we can!
@Dixie Dan 10:11I am sick to death of people always calling the race
card when opposing comments are made about Obama. So juvenille! In fact, he is
half black and half white. Who cares if he is polka-dotted? This presidency goes
way beyond race anymore! He, in fact, is leading this country down the wrong
path, and it is our duty to call him out when he says and does dumb things.Not supporting Israel is certainly one of many of them!
An intelligent, black man--who is respected throughout the world is a tough
thing for many on this board to handle. But handle it they must--for the next
six years. Book it.
Re: bgl | 10:51 a.m. May 23, 2011 Israel will never agree to go back
to their borders prior to the 1967 Six-Day War when the United Nations cut and
run after they asked for their help.You can not only book it ....
you could bet your life on it.
So many on this board just react to the title. Too bad, you miss a well-written
and illuminating essay.Thanks to the Author for the insight. I
appreciate the intelligent review.
Define a "perfect speech". This is very subjective. There is no
possible way to prove it was a decent speech. The nation is divided on this
guy. The nation is more polarized than ever, even Bush did a better job at
unifying us. The world is seeing through barry and his lies and deceit. Even
liberals dislike him. He only chose to begin talking about immigration reform as
election comes up and he's looking for the latino vote. Even though he promised
them that was one of his top agenda items. Oh yeah he also promised to have the
economy fixed. Remember the summer of jobs? Remember how the stimulus was going
to create 500,000 jobs every month? Instead we lost that many each month.
Very sad how many people use Obama's race to disqualify anothers comments. I
think President Obama is a very intellectual man. He's a sweet talker, he will
tell you what you want to hear and after you agree he does the complete
opposite. Interesting how President Obama is so concerned with Foriegn affairs,
yet is less concerned about fixing our own problems in the United States of
American. You know the country he's supposed to represent. So I
guess we should apply Obama's new policy to the United States and return the
land we stole from Native Americans and Mexico. We can't ask others to do things
we aren't willing to do ourself. Too all those that think Obama's
speech was flawless, wake up and smell the roses my friend, it was a slap in the
face. Lets keep offending the Middle East the largest supplier of Oil, Lets keep
our nose out of other countries business. Lets worry about THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FIRST!
Obama is a text book example of passive/aggressive behavior. He makes a policy
or postion statement, immediately thereafter meets with his adversaries on the
issue, deflects much of the negative energy with concillatory statements or just
lets the adversaries rail at him, then he proceeds with his policy. Two step
forward, one step back, he is moving forward.
I agreed with Obama and his comment about the 1967 borders. Years ago Saudi
Arabia proposed that they would recognize Israel in return for returning to
their 1967 borders but Israel didn't want to.If Israel doesn't want
to withdraw from the West Bank, then they need to let the Palestinians in the
West Bank vote in Israeli elections. The Old Testament condemns having a
different set of laws for the stranger, i.e. the politically weak.Tekakaromatagi
The demilitarized zone between the two Koreas is more than 30 miles, as wide or
nearly as wide as Isreal and a wild jungle forest. So is the US going to
station 38,000 young American troops on the border between Syria, Jordan, Egypt
and Israel? Obama talks about guaranteeing Israel's security, how does he
intend to do that? Israelis are the only ones who will guarantee their
security. And this time, they will not meekly walk into the ovens, while the
world looks the other way.
Penguin Inc,What does my coming out of Sanpete have to do with
anything? Enlighten me, please.
Re: Tekakaromatagi | 12:09 p.m. May 23, 2011 The Arabs should have
known when they had a good thing going for them and made peace with Israel prior
to the Six-Day War in June 1967. Based on your arguments the Soviet Union
should have returned land they took from Finland in the Winter War.The Arabs started the Six-Day War, had all the numbers on their side, were
salivating over their anticipated victory, and were stunned by their crushing
defeat on all sides at the hands of the outnumbered Isralis.
@rifleman"Obama has already started backpedaling on his comment about
Israel's 1967 borders."No he's not, even during the speech he
mentioned that the 1967 borders are merely a starting point that they can do
land swaps from if Israel wants particular pieces of land outside the 1967
borders. Not his fault some in the media weren't reporting that detail so he had
to mention it again.
silkywiley:I agree with your general attitude, but you sure got
Korea screwed up. The DMZ is 10 miles wide. It is far from a jungle (too cold,
too far north) and the Koreans like the US being there (except for a few younger
fools).As Romney said, Obama threw Israel under a bus. East
Jerusalem is not negotiable, the bigger settlements stay, Hamas must be out and
the Palestinians demilitarized.The saving grace is that Israel has
Irony Guy points out that Israel "stole" land during the six-day war.
It should be remembered that Israel entered the "six-day war" in
response to Arab blockade of the Suez canal, Egypt's expulsion of neutral
peacekeeping forces, and amassing of Egyptian soldiers near Israel's border.
Israel pushed the enemy back far enough to create a zone of safety which
resulted in new borders. It could be considered stealing, but it could also be
considered an act of preservation in the face of military aggression by a nation
that has sworn to destroy Israel.
The golan heights were seized from Syria, because prior to the 6 day way Israel
was shelled from that position for years prior. People forget there are arabs
and palastinians living peaceful productive lives in Israel. Also note, Syria,
Jordan, Lebonon and Eygpt will not allow palastinians to become citizens of
their countries. Also, in 1948, Jordan siezed the west bank from the
palastinians, and Eygpt siezed the gaza strip. So if we go back to the 1967
boundries, the palatinians still will have no country.
Yeah, Obama. That's exactly what I think of when I think of Obama . . .
perfect. Uh huh . . . perfect, and Irish, too. You bet.
Not to be overly vitriolic, but it disappoints me to see the jingoistic
statements in favor of Israel that are exhibited on this thread. If people
really knew what was happening in Palestine, they might tone down their rhetoric
a little bit. Palestinians are treated like second-class humans throughout much
of the State of Israel and the Occupied Territories, with many of these
Palestinians actually being Christians. These are Christians (Greek Orthodox,
Armenian Orthodox, Roman Catholics, and some Mormons.) who have lived in
Palestine for hundreds of years and are now subjected to Israeli expropriation
of their land and institutional apartheid. In fact, the Relief Society President
in Jerusalem/Al-Quds is Palestinian and has constantly been subjected to
harassment and imprisonment by Israeli soldiers when she attempts to attend
Church. The fact of the matter is that current Israeli settlement policies are
leading to the creation of Palestinian "Bantustans" that resemble the
reservations Afrikaners used to subjugate black South Africans. I am an
individual of Jewish descent, but the current human rights abuses evidenced by
the ultra-conservative Likud regime in Israel are NOT what I envision when I
think of Judaism.
To "Tekakaromatagi | 12:09 p.m." read up on the Khartoum Resolution
that Israel proposed after the 6 days war. At that time the Arab world gave a
response that included the "3 No's": "no peace with Israel, no
recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it."Is the Arab
League ready to change their stance, by having peace with Israel, recognize
Israel, and negociate?So far all we hear out of that area of the
world is that they want to destroy israel.
BobP | 12:31 p.m. May 23, 2011 Port Alice, B.C.The saving grace is
that Israel has nukes. Illegally tooThat is the most repulsive thing
that I've read yet. CongratulationsWith comments like that we should be
fencing the northern border.Both sides are zealots, and nationalist
and neither deserve what they have, and American needs to stop funding One side
of this childish "land of promise lie". Let them and their gods settle
it. Israel would not be so arrogant without the US standing behind it.
ashcroftgm Nice LIE, they did a poll over 80% of Palestinians IN
Israel, would rather live under Israeli control, then under Palestinian.
Excellent point, Mike Richards! I guess Obama is ready to give back gold-laden
Mount Rushmore to the local Indians that was taken by force?? (I'm an enrolled
Blackfeet and Christian)At least the Jews never took their current
land by force. They were attacked and won. That's how it goes. Obama is a Muslim
at heart obviously. The Jews are a sacred and chosen people and not to be
tampered with. Shame on Obama.
@gogogoffA survey done of Israeli high schoolers found that half of
them believe that Arab citizens of Israel do not deserve equal rights.
Pres. Obama is a good speaker. However he has 3 problems --- 1- He usually
caters to what ever audience he has 2 - He normally does not really believe what
he actually says he is going to do. 3 -If he does believe what he says he is
going to do, he has no clue how to accomplish the task at hand.He Clouds
and Wind without rain.He has proven in a short time that he cannot be trusted.
Most people can't even explain thier stalwart, unconditional support for Israel.
France is our alli too yet Americans piled right on them when they didn't think
Iraq has WMD's. Freedom fries! They were right and people still hate france.Israel has some serious unexplained power over Americans. They bulldose
palistinian homes and shoot unarmed kids yet they have your unconditional
support. It's strange at best.The Israel Lobby is the reason. It has
nothing to do with religion, unless money is your religion.
The U.S. is certainly a proponent of democracy. But I can't support our
President and say that everyone should have a democracy.Mubarak was
doing a decent job controlling the crazies in Egypt. Now Christians are fearing
for their lives. Gadhafi had committed no crimes for the past decade or so, yet
we villify him for a civil war he didn't even start. The U.N. came down on
Gadhafi for threatening counterattacks. Meanwhile, there are two countries with
atrocities ongoing, and NEED U.N. intervention--Syria and Bahrain. Honestly,
I'm glad we're not too engaged with Syria and Bahrain, but it dumbfounds me that
we're all giddy about making a difference in Egypt and Libya. Especially Libya,
where we are making things worse.What about Israel? Israel is as
good as most Middle East countries at being two-faced. They will say one thing,
but if Netanyahu and Obama ended up in a foxhole together, I don't think
Netanyahu will believe Obama has his back. We are no longer an ally. Not until
we elect a new President.
A "perfect speech"? Only if you can call slapping our closest Middle
East ally, Israel, in the face a "perfect speech"......
Dixie Dan @ 10:11- You don't need to be a racist to dislike Obama. Or haven't
you noticed what he has been up to? Under his leadership, unemployment is up 4
to 5 points; the debt has seen record increases and the economy is worse than at
any time under Bush. Furthermore, Obama has made it clear that he wants to give
15,000,000 illegal aliens amnesty, even if he prefers to call it
"reform". And now he makes the ridiculous demand that Israel retreat
to it's 1967 borders. This clearly demonstrates his ignorance. There is a reason
why they have not retreated: They need a buffer zone to protect them from their
neighbors. The Israelis would have to be insane to give up an inch of land or
even negotiate with the Palestinians until the Palestinians are united under a
rational government that sincerely wants peace with Israel and is strong enough
to neutralize the terrorist elements who do not want peace.
PERFECT...if you are Hamas or Taliban
Screwdriver- France is not an American ally. France does not even belong to
NATO. France is for France. Period. The only time we are their ally is when they
get invaded by the Germans and need us to liberate them.
@gogogoffWhat is your source? The only thing remotely suggesting a desire
to be included in Israel was a survey done of East Jerusalem residents by State
Department researcher David Pollock. Even in that survey, only 35 percent
favored maintaining Israeli citizenship. The report (as referenced on the
Washington Post's site)went on to explain that the Palestinian rationale for
wanting Israeli citizenship was primarily economic, as Israeli settlement
expansion has basically destroyed the day-to-day economy of the Occupied
Territories. Furthermore, in the survey, countless Palestinians complained of
everyday discrimination by the Israelis. I don't want to sound combative, but I
would encourage you to verify your facts and sources before you accuse me of
spreading untruths. I am a senior at BYU majoring in International Relations,
with an emphasis in Middle Eastern Studies and Arabic, and have done a good bit
of study on the subject. I also live with a Palestinian Roman Catholic and have
heard firsthand accounts of the abuses perpetrated by the Israeli Defense
Forces. Yes, both sides have committed atrocities, but you can't just make
Manichean judgments and say one side is good and one is evil.
ouisc said: What about Israel? Israel is as good as most Middle East countries
at being two-faced. They will say one thing, but if Netanyahu and Obama ended up
in a foxhole together, I don't think Netanyahu will believe Obama has his back.
We are no longer an ally. Not until we elect a new President. Why
should we (Obama) have his back, he hasn't got ours?You
said..."Israel is as good as most Middle East countries at being two-faced.
They will say one thing.So why do we pay them to pretend to be are
ally?Kelliewood said: The Jews are a sacred and chosen people and
not to be tampered with. Shame on Obama.Really Sacred? Chosen? Then
their God will protect them and we don't need to send them billions to loan back
to us or buy arms for Offensive use then do we?
Israel needs to be kicked off US welfare.
@ TeafortwoYes, Israel is our closest ally, but should our alliance be
maintained at current levels? Even as an individual with Jewish grandparents, I
can see no logical reason why the US should be so unabashedly behind Israel.
Israel may have served well as a client state during the Cold War era, but since
the fall of the Eastern Bloc it has increasingly become a liability for us in
the region. Our unequivocal support for Israel (a nation which constantly
breaches international law and intentionally violates human rights)has fed right
into the hands of Islamic extremists, with these individuals using our
unjustified support of Israel's neo-colonial practices as a tenet of their
recruiting propaganda. I'm not saying we should deny Israel's right to exist,
but I am saying we should distance ourselves from them. Israel has a very
productive military industrial complex along with a developed economy, and has
no need of the exorbitant 3 billion dollar subsidy we provide it each year. If
we want to maintain our energy security, national security, and standing in the
world community, we must work to produce a more impartial approach to the issue
@Richard Saunders "Please provide evidence of this. As I understand
it, the info that led to the death of Bin Laden came from his courier"Precisely - the courier was identified using water boarding several
years ago. They have been watching him ever since...
To: Mike Richards"Bountiful is part of the land taken from
Mexico. If it's good for Israel, it's good for you. Better pack up and be ready
to move out."When Mexicans who were born in Bountiful and who
have never left cry out for their own country we will talk about it but until
then the indigenous people of Palestine whose rights are violated by Israeli
voters"Check your maps and your history. How much of the world
needs to be re-aligned if we apply Mr. Obama's "doctrine" to every
nation on earth?"No one is suggesting, except you, that we need
to apply this doctrine the entire world since the entire world is not in a
contest over geographical boundaries and the native people of America have
rights that Israel denies Palestinians."If he is somehow
expected to supplant our Constitution with International Law, then he had better
call in the tribal leaders and start discussions on how they want to repossess
most of the lands of the United States."That would displace
Americans. Genocide! That is what Israel is doing and we won't do it too just
because Mike can vote
To: BYUalum"I am sick to death of people always calling the
race card when opposing comments are made about Obama. So juvenille!"Everyone on this board who mentions racism or attacks your character are
juvenile but it's not juvenile to call others juvenile or to resort to ad
hominem attacks on their characters."He, in fact, is leading
this country down the wrong path, and it is our duty to call him out when he
says and does dumb things."It's juvenile to accuse you of
saying and doing racist things but not juvenile to call others out on saying and
doing dumb things? I'm sure your response is likely to go something like this:
"I know you are but what am I?""Not supporting Israel
is certainly one of many of them!" Tell that to the children
who peacefully protest and throw stones at tanks. I guess it was okay for Israel
to run them over and kill them. That's what the Palestinians call the Intifada.
In other words Israel murdered children who tried to oppose them peacefully.
Similar to police hoses and dogs on black civil rights protesters. Do you
Re:Screwdriver"Israel has some serious unexplained power over
Americans. They bulldose palistinian homes and shoot unarmed kids yet they have
your unconditional support. It's strange at best."It is strange
that so many Americans are willing to unconditionally support the state of
Israel even after they commit acts which are opposed to core American values.
There are times when we should support Israel but that doesn't mean they should
have our unconditional support. You gave several examples of actions that Israel
has taken which we should condemn as we support a sustainable peace.
Israel, as they have taken on the mantle of Gods chosen people, should hold
themselves to a higher standard than those around them. It is a delicate
balancing act. The need to be able to defend itself is very real. And yet,
this does not excuse them from the moral contract that have as Gods chosen
people. He has clearly stated that his blessing on them are directly linked to
the morals of their society. It is not enough to be Gods people, it carries a
higher requirement from them... often at a very high cost.The United
States needs to hold Israel to the charters that created the state - and at the
same time set in motion the creation of a equal Palestinian state. Israel can
not claim legitimacy for its state, while denying those others granted the same
rights in the same charter. There has to be two states.Now, if
after a real Palestinian state is created, there continues to be violence
between the two nations, Israel has ever legitimate right to defend itself by
what ever means necessary.Until then, there will be no piece while
one group does not enjoy equal liberties.
Re. Iron GuyYou sound like someone who defends the Nazi invasion of
Polland. Israel did not steal the land. The Arab countries attacked Israel, not
the other way around. I personally remember Israel's Abbe Eban speech at the UN
pleading with the Arab countries not to attack. After the war, Israel gave a
lot of the land back to the Arab agressors. Had the outcome be different, do you
think the Arabs would give back captured land? The agressors have responded to
Israel's returning the land by shooting rockets into Israel from the very land
they gave back to them. Given the terrorist activity directed toward Israel
from its Arab neighbors, why in the world should they give any more land back?
If you start a war and you lose, then, you lose and you'd better be ready to
accept the consequences. In this case, Israel has been more than reasonable. I realize, Iron Guy, that you are probably just a youth and have been
deceived by people who want to rewrite history. But, I remember it. I also
remember Israel was our faithful ally on 9/11 while Palestinians danced in the
Wouldn't it be nice to see for once the comments on this board not split down
party lines and some independent thinking happen. No one is always wrong, nor
is anyone always right.But the same crowds on both sides use the
same tired talking points - regardless of the issue.I am not even
saying the same thing didn't happen when a Republican was in office. But at
some point, someone from the left needs to be able to say Bush did x wrong, and
y right. Likewise from the right... Obama is wrong on these issues, but is in
synch on these others.But no chance. No one seems to want to
explore the options. Rather they just want reaffirmation of what they already
believe.No one is all evil, and no one is all good.Please people... get over it.
Dear Mike Richards,You seem to forget that the Palestinians were
displaced by Israelis after WWII. It's called an occupation.
JSB... you need to study up on exactly what the Israeli movement did before
there was an Israel - many of the same tactics the Arabs now use - only against
the British. You have to remember that before there was Israel, this was
palistinian land occupied by the British. There is a long and deep history
here. Many countries claim historical rights to this land. Israel had not
occupied that land for nearly 2000 years before. The term agressor is a rather
relative term. One side behaving poorly does not justify the other
side acting just a poorly. All you end up with is two side behaving poorly,
with no resolution in sight. That, and there is a very clear document that
establishes these lands for each group. This land was carved out of land that
had been occupied by others before them.JSB... if you want to start
quoting history, quote the whole history.... your last comment cast
dispersions across a whole segment of people unjustly. Those people no more
represent the Arab world as a whole any more than Mormons or Tea Party members
represent this nation as a whole. I was over there, I say it live.
Just moments ago, Senator Harry Reid said: "The place where negotiating
will happen must be at the negotiating table - and nowhere else," Reid
declared in a speech to an annual gathering in Washington of the American Israel
Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). "Those negotiations . will not happen -
and their terms will not be set - through speeches, or in the streets, or in the
media."Mr. Obama has even managed to offend his Democrat Senate
No Mike, Reid is just saying that there are those who want to use this situation
as a political football between the parties, and that there will be no
Republican, nor Democrat solution to this issue. Whether you agree with the
position or not, Obama is clearly right to clarify his administrations position
on the middle east. Statements of position can and should be made, but as Reid
said, it is only with Israel and the Palestinians at the table can this be
resolved. Right now, neither side will even come to the table.
radically_independent, here's one for you. Bush said in Israel in '08 Isralei
and Plasteinian negotiations need to begin with the 1949 (pre 1967 war) borders
and then refelct current reality (contain land swaps). Both Bush and Obama said
the same thing and are correct.
My view on the 1967 borders is that Egypt doesn't want the Gaza Strip back and
Jordan doesn't want the West Bank. It is their contribution to a Palestinian
state.When I say, that Israel has taken Palestinian land I mean in a
land ownership sense, not in a national boundary sense. It seems to me that
Jordan took it in the Six Day war and Jordan lost it fair and square.That is when Israel began to lose their moral high ground. (Actually Uvi
Avnery says that Israel lost the moral high ground when they declared themselves
a Jewish state in 1948.)Israel has defined their administration of
the West Bank so that it is awfully easy for them to take over Palestinian
lands. As one US-born settler put it, "Just because some Palestinians
goats used to graze there doesn't mean that it belonged to him." The point
of Israel's occupation is to make life for the Pals so hard that they leave and
go elsewhere. More humane than killing Israel argues, but not something that
the US should be supporting in any way.We have lost our moral
The uprisings in the Middle East and African nations are not about democracy.
They hide behind the word "Democracy" to change government without
democratic elections. Students were used to stir each other up so unknown
leaders can get in. There is no security or stability to that. President
Obama's support has led to continued violence, death and destruction. All holy
books command not to disrespect your leaders or to create disorder in the
land.Business, unions and money making are the fuel that is firing
up the destructions in the Middle East. Our employment lifestyle causses our
world problems including pollution that is making young and old diseased. IF
that were the only reason, we should turn back to the land for a healthy future.
A garden paradise lifestyle is the goal in all holy books. It is the only
sustainable lifestyle that brings true peace, security, abundance and joy. We
need to choose it while we still can.President Obama is a great
speech maker, but he is going the wrong way, making war instead of bringing
"The uprisings in the Middle East and African nations are not about
democracy. They hide behind the word "Democracy" to change government
without democratic elections. Students were used to stir each other up so
unknown leaders can get in. There is no security or stability to that. President
Obama's support has led to continued violence, death and destruction. All holy
books command not to disrespect your leaders or to create disorder in the
land."Hold on a second! Do you really think you are allowed to
get away with that double standard. How is it when a Republican stirs people to
revolt against their dictators, it is all right. But if a Democrat does the
exact same thing, somehow this is inciting violence in otherwise peaceful
nations.This constant attack of it is right when we do it, but wrong
when Obama CONTINUES the very same policies is now condemnable. No one is going
to take the right side of the spectrum (nor the left) if they continue to use
double standards in just about everything they do.Enough is
enough.... lets give honesty a chance.