"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is
guilty of all" (James 2:10, KJV).
After reading some of the comments here... Lets open the boarders. Yah that is,
that the ticket. What does religion have to do with it? Lets look. Americans across the religious landscape largely agree on a clear set
of values that should guide immigration reform policy. At least
8-in-10 Americans rated four values as very or extremely important guides to
immigration reform: enforcing the rule of law and promoting national security
(88%), ensuring fairness to taxpayers (84%), protecting the dignity of every
person (82%), and keeping families together (80%). There are few significant
differences among religious groups; for example, white evangelical Protestants
are just as likely as white Mainline Protestants, Catholics, and the
unaffiliated say protecting the dignity of every person is a very or extremely
important value.He commited a crime so it seems. What if he was not
from LDS? Would you feel the same?
As I live in Texas, this debate hits very close to home. I used to be a very
hard-liner on this but even before I knew of the church's stance on illegal
immigration I changed my opinion.We do need to secure our borders
without question and we need to do this immediately. But, as soon as we
accomplish this, we need to get our current illegal inhabitants into a system
where they are legal and paying taxes with added fees for working here but with
no easier way to citizenship than the current way. We have too many here for
any other way to work and it is the most humaine way to do it. It is logical
and helps the most people and creates more revenue for the USA.
Nobody really wants to solve the illegal immigration problem. They merely want
to use it as a wedge to further divide this nation and shift our focus away from
more important issues, like out of control government spending.The
solution to the immigration issue is so simple. Make it a felony to employ
illegal aliens. Illegals come here for one reason, JOBS. Start cracking down on
companies that hire illegals and the jobs will disappear. When the jobs are gone
the illegals will pack up and go elsewhere. Problem solved, and we didn't have
to spend millions catching and deporting people.
The law is the law, people want to mix law and what the bible says. I believe
that what has happen and support the laws of this land.It has been placing a
burden on the taxpayers for long enough and I for one is glad to see that they
are doing their jobs. Churches need to stay out of the ways it's being enforce.
Cowboy Joe, Jesus said "render unto Ceasar". The LDS
Church - thus God - has stated "Husband and wife have a solemn
responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. ... to be
law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wivesmothers and
fatherswill be held accountable before God for the discharge of these
obligations." (see The Family: A Proclamation to the World)The
LDS Church - thus God - issued a statement concerning immigration that persons
should obey the law in the country in which they live. (see LDS Church on Utah
Compact)The LDS Church - thus God - requires being honest with ones
fellow man. (If you are LDS you know when this comes up.)Also, 12th
article of Faith; notice this statement of faith does not have a "except
Um, my fairly confident understanding is that if the prophet of the LDS Church
issues the mind and will of God in the name of God Almighty Himself, he doesn't
do so INCOGNITO through the Church's Public Affairs Office. Yeah yeah I know,
the statements issued by the P.A.O. are cleared by the First Presidency. But
that AIN'T the same thing as the First Presidency itself issuing a statement,
putting ITS signature at the bottom, and claiming that it is the mind and will
of the Lord.Has God repealed the 12th Article of Faith? Then let the prophet boldly say so! Otherwise, I am NOT interested in Scott
Trotter's or any other Church functionary's personal opinion, propaganda, or,
worse, obfuscations; e.g., "This case reminds us all of the need to address
immigration reform." Which everyone knows means AMNESTY.FALSE!
There is NO such need!And knock it off with the riddles already!
"Love thy neighbor." Just what is that supposed to mean?? We should
endorse illegal behavior? And shouldn't Mexicans love their neighbors to the
North?"Families." Your point?? They "CAN'T"
take their children back home with them??
People are saying we should just love and support illegals of any nationality.
My question to all of you is why do we have laws of any kind then? If an
American citizen breaks the law they go to court, people judge them and they
serve the consequences. But we should love and look the other way when someone
enters the country illegally for what ever reason (which is against the law) and
not judge them. I feel really bad for ALL the people who immigrate to our
nation the right way, following the law waiting years to be united with family
or spouses here in the U.S.. They suffer the consequences of doing the right
thing! I've seen a few posts of those people I wish more that immigrated by the
law would express their feeling of those who break the law to get here.
"My understanding is they didn't commit any crimes," said Latino
community activist Tony Yapias."What on earth do you think
being here illegally is?However, we do need to remember this...Give me your tired, your poor,Your huddled masses yearning to
breathe free,The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.Send these
the homeless, tempest-tossed to me;I lift my lamp beside the Golden Door.
When my great great grandfather arrive in the Salt Lake valley in 1847, he had
come from Wales and was welcomed in both the US and what was later Utah.When my great grandmother entered the US from Scotland with her father
at the age of 6 she was welcome in Utah.A very close relative of
mine came to the US from Canada illegally. His first job in Utah was
remodelling a house for the local Sheriff in California. When his illegal
status was pointed out to the Sheriff, the comment was; "I don't care, he's
not a Mexican."Cowboy Joe has it dead on correct.My
church holds too many Pharisees.
@Humm??The answer to your question is, The Declaration of
Independence. Not that a document is required to grant rights, but the
Declaration correctly identifies the fundamental rights of Life, Liberty, and
the Pursuit of Happiness.Humans have rights by their nature, not by
their governments or laws. The right of liberty necessarily includes being free
to live where I choose.If I were to discover a new continent, who
would there be to tell me where I could or could not live? No one. I am free
to live wherever on that continent I please. What if another man comes to the
continent? Where shall he live? Anywhere he pleases if it's not on my
homestead. Who would stop him? Who would want to? If they did want to, would
they be right?Man is free to live where he pleases and only other
men exerting force upon him can prevent it. It is that force that is evil. For
example, the good branch president, who forced no man to hire him, feed him, or
house him, sits in a prison cell because someone didn't want him to live here.
That is evil.
RagnarL4,Where is it said that HUMANS have a right to live wherever
All I can say to that, Cowboy, is Amen.Everyone should keep in mind
that Christ's harshest criticism was toward the leaders and prominent members of
his own religion.Also, let me add that I take umbrage at those who
have the pretentiousness to "forgive" or "not forgive" this
man, or any other illegal immigrant. They have done nothing to you; committed no
offense toward you. You are simply not in a position to pass that kind of
judgment on them in either direction.What we should be doing is
looking at every possible avenue to show compassion toward and help our fellow
human beings. If the laws are outdated, they need to be fixed. If the people are
here illegally, they need to not be kicked out but helped to remain here
legally. The people involved should take priority over any other political
persuasion or stance.This man has done nothing wrong other than not
being a legal resident. By all accounts he has been a benefit to his community.
And so many here are frothing at the mouth in shouting for him to be kicked out.
Remember the pharases's and sadducees followed the strict letter of the law.
They attended church, read the scriptures, paid tithing, prayed daily ect. The
Savior followed a greater law the letter of the law. He healed on the sabbath,
against the law, many good church goers took offence to this. They crucified
him. Our Savior taught us to love everyone, and He did not follow
laws that were contrary to the gospel. Ask yourselves what kind of Christian are
you. Am I a pharasee saducee or am I a true disciple of Christ? The difference
between the two sets of people is charity. Charity never faileth.
If you believe the book of mormon to be true, and the lamanites to be ancestors
of many latins, then you should read 3 nephi 11-4nephi. These chapters talk
specifically about immigration. Christ teaches that the gentiles will care for
and give the gospel to the lamanites in the last days. He also issues a warning
that when the gentiles stop following the gospel the lamanites will destroy the
Uh, Jeffrey Wilber, here's what he faces for defying a deportation order:$500 per day for every day he failed to show up.Four years in prison.Now, we are such magnanimous chumps that they never impose the law, but that's
what it says in the books.TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II >
Part VIII > § 1324d.andTITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 >
SUBCHAPTER II > Part V > § 1253There's another
difference. When I get pulled over for a traffic violation, I get a ticket.
These guys get released and an apology from the governor.
oldcougar, if an immigrant is here legally, that's great. I have in-laws from
across the border(legal). If they are here illegally, they chose to break the
laws written in 1996. The laws aren't broken, they are being broke. There is a
difference. The service sector is already in place, a few more
people might need to be hired. 100 people don't create 100 jobs. Otherwise the
world would be fully employed. 1.1 million people came legally last year, did
they create 1.1 million new jobs?
What a great contribution he and his family can make to the church in their
native land. Do you remember the old days when the church used to tell members
to stay in their own countries and build up the church there? And not immigrate
here? And if you do come here ,do it legally? Those were the days when the 12th
article of faith actually meant that you, as a church member, were expected to
obey the law of the land. Now it seems you have the green light to go ahead and
break the laws you disagree with and the church will look the other way, put you
in high positions anyway, and condone it when you and your family loot the state
and national treasuries.This is the new "compassion", mercy for
lawbreakers and nothing for their victims, that are many in number. I am glad to
see that many in the church are standing up to this great injustice and not
simply rolling over and accepting a law (HB116 )that is wrong and unfair on
every level. This law is not even fair to the immigrants it is supposed to help.
SLARS: One more time -- slowly. Not all immigrants are bad. Our immigration
system and laws are BAD. Fix the laws, help the people. Don't tell me about
unemployment...I've experienced it. I got busy and found work. I admire people
who come here at great risk to feed their families. I know others who refuse to
work because they are content with unemployment compensation. I don't admire
them. A large percentage of jobs are created in our country by eager and
creative immigrants who start businesses. Lose the scarcity mentality. This is
America. Every immigrant who comes here is a consumer. They buy stuff. They
expand the market and spend what they earn. This creates jobs. Adopt an
abundance mentality! It works.Ideasnstuff! Amen, brother. Right on! I
couldn't agree more. Lock down the borders then fix the laws. No mercy for the
real criminals. Make it easier for the good guys, the contributors to come and
stay here! Let's get to work! Most of our economic problems we created ourselves
by being stingy, lazy, and selfish. Let's work together and fix it. Elect good
Jeffrey, yeah... because violating a traffic law and illegal immigration are
exactly the same thing... O_o Wow. The consequences to breaking those laws are
so far off the wall in comparison. By your logic Jeffrey speeding is perfectly
OK, right?And a speeding ticket does not equal a temple recommend
being removed or revoked, and you know that... Even my old bishop got pulled
over, but does he need to call on repentance? No. SLars is right anyway, its a
misdemeanor.And I have compassion for him, because God told us to
forgive everyone. I forgive him, but I don't have to support him breaking the
law. Like I said, I hope he finds peace during this trial. But I also support
illegal immigration enforcement, and doesn't matter if he's white, Mexican,
Mormon, or not, he pays the consequences of those actions.Also, its
Heavenly Fathers responsibility to give mercy, but justice still needs to be
Actually it's a misdemeanor. And working illegally is multiple federal felonies.
It's more on par with bank robbery, since you are taking something that is not
yours. And committing felonies. The law has a fine, jail, and
deportation, with jail and fines seldom given. That is the mercy. Where is the mercy to those out of work and the people with stolen identities?
To the taxpayer that subsidizes the illegal activity, to those who are victum of
crimes? Illegal immigration and those that protect it, really are on
a one way street.
Everyone on here who is completely lacking in compassion and siding with
politics over faith while claiming that "he broke the law" needs to
understand this: the law he broke is on par to you not obeying the traffic laws
perfectly every time you hop in your car.If you don't, I sure hope
you aren't accepting church callings or applying for temple recommends.After all, justice before mercy, right?
Perhaps ICE doesn't just deport someone. But don't be fooled. ICE rounds up
the most minor offenders, throws one gang member into the mix, and then holds a
huge press conference about a gang sweep. The local ICE administrators may well
just be expressing their views on LDS undocumented aliens. Compassionate and
thoughtful immigration reform would force ICE to work harder to identify the
real criminals. Thus far, it seems to be the state of Utah cops that are
busting up the counterfeiting rings and fake social security card print shops.
Jobs are finite. Otherwise the 100,000 people out of work in this state would be
creating jobs. Bring in 100,000 more and it will enlarge the economy, but by a
very small number in just the service sector. Maybe 3-5%. The idea that more
people make more jobs is a ponzi scheme. Most of the 1.1 million
that came here last year were not rich or elite. Over 700,000 of them were
family members joining family. (Federal law limits this amount to 440,000, don't
know how Obama got passed that law).I am seeing a ripple effect
here. People are breaking immigration laws, then to work they break identity
laws, work laws etc. then business breaks laws hiring them, landlords break laws
renting to people illegally (and it is against the law) pretty soon the police
stop enforcing some laws, because they affect mostly the illegal population.
Cities stop enforcing immigration laws to please the business. Now people are
breaking Gods laws. Is there an end to this?
No, it is not likely that this family will ever return legally, unless they can
pull together the extensive time and money resources needed to plod through the
immigration maze.Current quotas and regulations are based on the
notion that our economy is a zero-sum game and that law-abiding, hard-working
newcomers (even legal ones) will take a slice from a finite job "pie",
but won't expand the same pie with their presence. That's why the immigration
system is set up to keep out everyone but the elite.The period in
our history when we welcomed the "wretched refuse to our teeming
shores" was the same period in which the United States transformed itself
into the world's industrial and economic powerhouse. Then xenophobia took the
upper hand. "Amurica fer Amuricans."And I still say build
the wall and implement high-tech personal documentation. This will allow our
country to bring in those who would build our wealth and quality of life, and
keep out the crooks and the leeches.
As sad as it is to see a fellow member of the church sent home with his
family... that's the way it is. He broke the law. I believe one of the temple
questions asks if you are law abiding citizen... or something like that, correct
me if I'm wrong. So technically he shouldn't even be a branch president,
right?While I don't feel sorry for him for refusing to take care of
his citizenship for his families sake, I pray he finds the strength through the
Lord to overcome this trial, and who knows, maybe one day he'll come back
legally. It's shame to read all the hate comments. Breaking the law
is breaking the law, there's no way around it folks... its not a very political,
racial, or spiritual thing either, its just plain and simple as that.
IdeasnstuffI'm the one who said it was a simple solution. And your
solution is just about in line with mine. Unfortunately, I don't think there
are enough politicians who are willing to take the political chance, thus
removing commons sense from the equation and replace in with motivations to
maintain power and money.
Immigration quotas are set each year according to a formula that takes
unemployment into account. It's cruel to let people in and tell them
their are no jobs. Our country lets in more legal people each year than any
other country, however our resources are limited. We can't open our doors to
anyone who wants to come here from all over the world, when they choose. We have
to have an orderly system that gives everyone in the world the same chance at a
better life. Illegal immigration destroys this. It gives preferential treatment
to those who can cross our borders. It shows a lack of compassion towards the
rest of the worlds people. Compassion is a two way street, so far it's only
running one way. We were at war with Mexico when the Mormons came
into this land. Remember the Mormon battalion? Gods law tells us not to steal,
covet, or lie, and to obey the laws of the land.
It's very interesting to me to see how many Mormons are seeing their religion
come up against their politics on the issue of immigration, and are choosing to
side with their politics.I believe that says quite a lot.Also, as far as the "honoring, obeying and sustaining the law" bit,
the Church has always had a very complicated relationship with that. You only
have to look at polygamy to see that.The bottom line is that God's
law trumps Man's law. It always has for religion, and always will. And, if your
religion is true anyway, I would argue that it logically should be that way.
The responsibility is ours to change bad laws. I'm glad immigration quotas
didn't exist when my ancestors came to America. And I'm glad my illegal
immigrant Mormon ancestors were not deported when they settled in Mexican
territory. JBrady, allow yourself to think practically and compassionately about
how to solve the problems with our immigration system. If we remain rigid, we
will become even more brittle. Our system is alrady broken. Quotas and laws, as
well as methods of enforecment, should be constantly evaluated and amended to
fit reality. That's the beauty of the rule of law in a representative
democracy...the laws are subject to constant scrutiny and must be changed when
they don't work. If you are an expert on immigration quotas, how they are
established, and why they are absolutely correct as they are, enlighten us. But
to say we have too many immigrants and we have no responsibility to make things
better and to treat each other with compassion and reason, seems wrong to me.
Just my .02. And I'm right, of course. :)
It's so simple to put the responsibility on others isn't it? Those
who chose to come here illegally instead of the legal way are responsible for
being here. Business who encouraged people to come here illegally share a
lesser responsibility. Organizations that encourage the illegal activity
share responsibility. America's people are not responsible for this.
People rob banks every day, is America responsible for their actions?It's not to late to enforce the laws, in fact it's the only option that solves
the problem. Amnesty just delays it to the next generation. Under amnesty a
person getting residency would have to compete with America citizens for jobs.
Many would end up on welfare, as the next wave of illegal immigrants took their
jobs. See the problem? This country can only absorb so many people
each year. With over a million legal residents and unlimited visas for
agriculture the good guys have a path already.
Simple, but not easy, solution: Change existing laws to create a much easier
path for the good guys to come and stay and a much more difficult path for bad
guys to get here and stay. Some of you rightly emphasize the benefits of the
"rule of law." Well, fortunately our sysem of laws allows us to change
the bad laws. The problem here is bad immigration laws...not bad immigrants (a
few posters seem to look for the laws to send all aliens home and discourage
them from coming at all...that smacks of provincialism and unhealthy nationalism
and protectionism...we're better than that and will not benefit from such
"closed-system thinking). Let's fix the laws! We need legislators at all
levels of government who are more interested in serving and doing what's right
than in getting re-elected. There is little honor in "black and
white," my-way-or-the-highway thinking. Thinking with feeling is OK. When
laws are flawed and good people consistently choose to disobey them, we should
consider changing them. We can do this, and we'll be better for it.
I am very conservative but I believe there is room for compassion and
practicality here. How many of you, living in a very oppressed situation
with a family to support would not seek a better opportunity for their family.
And with the immigration laws here being so liberal, would you not seek that
opportunity to improve the lives of your family? Sure, there are parasites and
predators that come here illegally that should be deported, but do you honestly
think it is practical and economical to deport the productive and
"law-biding" sector of the immigrant population. It would be a huge
expense and a huge impact on the economy, and create a lot of chaos.The problem here is the U.S. Government's own making, not the illegal
immigrants themselves. It's a mess, I know, but the logical, and right thing to
do is secure the border, deport all who commit serious crimes (i.e, not a
traffic ticket), and provide conditional amnesty to the productive and
law-abiding.As for me and my house, we stand by the position of the
Prophet and the Brethren.
Dear President Calllejas-Hernandez,I am very sorry that America has
forgotten that HUMANS are free to live where they wish, and pursue their freedom
as they wish because they are HUMANS.America no longer has an answer
to the question, "Whence liberty?".America now believes
liberty depends on where you were born (and that loosely), not on actually being
a HUMAN.So, go try living a HUMAN's life somewhere else. America
will no longer allow a HUMAN creed... as if it were hers to allow or
disallow.Gone is the motto, "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of
Happiness".Entrenched is the catechism: Vox populi. Vox dei...
or else!So much for HUMAN liberty. So much for HUMANITY.
MormonDem: Precisely. That's why a reasonable national ID system with strong
anticounterfeiting features is needed. Many in the extreme right wing have
always feared such systems as big-brotherism, but we will soon find it to be
essential.By the way, my suggestion to ease legal immigration
includes revamping the political asylum so it is no longer a tool of foreign
policy. I know a very capable engineer from El Salvador who ended up having to
take his family to Canada even though he found out he was on the former
right-wing government's "death list" in his home country. When his
student visa ran out at BYU, he applied for asylum here and couldn't get it.
Canada's gain - our loss.And yes, we still need to build "the
I don't see this as a failure of our immigration laws. This family came into
the country but tried to obtain a visa waiver they didn't qualify for. After
being denied, the judge issued an order, telling them to leave the country.
Instead of obeying the law, they choose to stay. Maybe someone told them to
stay, hoping for another amnesty or something, but the bottom line is they took
a risk, and after three years, the government arrested them and will apparently
deport them.This sounds very similar to the other family (the
stained glass mekers) profiled recently who tried the same thing, but were
deported back home. It looks like there may be an immigration lawyer preying on
the LDS Latino community, giving them false hope by applying for refugee visas
they aren't qualified for, but also putting these families on the government
radar. Perhaps this should be looked into by a reporter.
it shouldnt matter what faith a illegal immagrant is if they are here illegall
they should be deported . one of the rules is we must obey the rules of the land
. if we dont this is a sin itself .
This particular case has nothing to do with "securing borders." This
gentleman and his family came into this country legally under political asylum.
Their applications to renew their visas were denied. In other words: the system
failed.This is precisely why the GOP's "enforcement only"
solutions are inadequate.
I am LDS AND I was Canadian when I was married to my US citizen wife 14 years
ago. Now I am a US citizen after many long years as a LEGAL resident alien and
eventually after all the years of paperwork and fees I am a US citizen of two
years.The US govt wanted me to stay in Canada and threatened
criminal prosecution if I even visited my wife in the US before the legal
paperwork was completed. Of course Canada was threatening the same thing in
reverse and did not want my wife living with me in Canada illegally.I guess I don't understand why the Church was not advocating for me back then
to just come here illegally 15 years ago as long as I served faithfully in my
church calling.Maybe I needed to be poor and from a Latin-American
country?Come to think of it I am pretty sure our articles of faith
remain the same today as it was then...honoring, obeying, and sustaining the
law.I followed the law and everyone else should to until/if/when the
law is changed.No exceptions.
I support the LDS church and the Utah Compact. We need to fix our laws. We
must allow compassion to be our first motivation. WE are responsible for
allowing illegal immigration to happen by creating an environment where it is
very easy and makes a lot of sense for people to come here. WE must be willing
to "pay the consequence" by welcoming and making legal the families
who are currently here due to our lack of a system that is clear and
enforceable. Hopefully, these challenges will move us toward an
immigration policy that is reasonable and enforceable. Due to the the problems
we are currently experiencing, a pressure is being developed that will hopefully
bring both sides to the table where good laws and enforceable policies will be
enacted. If not, and we choose to keep posturing and fighting instead, then at
least at this point we are allowing most families to remain intact and work here
free from the oppression of their native countries without the damage this
family is experiencing. I hope everyone will be willing to learn
about compromise and let's get this issue solved.
An earlier poster stated that the solution to immigration woes was simple, but
government lacked the gumption to do it. I agree. Here is what needs to be done,
in order:1. Secure the borders. Yes, build "the wall".2. Create a national ID card that is very difficult to counterfeit and
must be renewed. Even poor Latin American countries have these.3.
Make it a lot easier for non-criminals to immigrate legally.As for
those already here, focus on those those committing criminal acts other than
their immigration violation. Too late to round everybody up.Without
steps 1 and 2, nothing else will work.
What an example; Felix Joaquin Callejas-Hernandez, a LDS president, an official,
a leader, a "role model" repeatedly disregarding our great nation's
laws, more than once!Not for a minute do I believe that this is the
message the Church intends to send to its members and investigators.Then
LDS Church spokesman Scott Trotter refers in his statement to 'love they
neighbor', ...keeping families intact, and the federal government's obligation
to secure its border".I totally believe in the teachings of the
Church, but nowhere in the Churches teachings can I find anything about
"federal government securing its borders". More important, in its
"Articles of Faith", the church teaches "WE BELIEVE in being
subjects to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, IN OBEYING, HONORING,
AND SUSTAINING THE LAW."Mr. Callejas-Hernandez follow the Churches
teachings, repent, obey our great nation's laws, and return with your entire
family to El Salvador, where you must continue to teach the Gospel. Meanwhile, I
shall pray for you and your family.
We have hundreds, maybe thousands, of non-productive criminal illegals in this
country and we deport someone like this? ICE is cowardly and just plain wrong.
This becomes offensive when I see Mormon on the title. Come on reporters. If you
do such then please publish the most prominent title of each person detained by
ICE, including thier religion. Now, like I have always said it is normally
reported that "this poor indigent, hard working, religious, tax paying,
wanting to get his kids the best life has to get, etc etc etc" position has
to go. He, and his family were all here illegally. Period. Laws are for
EVERYONE, not just the normal joe citizen. I do not care if he is a mormon, jew,
catholic, or nigerian. Come here legally or get out. It is that simple.
The Church is not saying to ignore borders. After all God created borders and
the Nations. And they want the borders strengthened. They are
advocating amnesty as a show of loving they neighbor and to keep families
together. This is the problem, many believe the time to accomplish this was when
the people were coming here illegally. Now it cannot be done without great harm
to society. We must remember that those who came here illegally had
the responsibility to love they neighbor, and chose instead to break into his
land, steal his job, and steal his identities. Families are broke up
all the time when laws are enforced. The people made that choice. Counseling
before they did it would of helped. Are people being counseled now
to stop breaking the law? to prevent this in the future? If not, then they they
are ignoring the long term solution.
This isn't a story about the LDS church if it is people are very hypocritical,
I'm real sure other faiths with latino congregations deal with the same thing.
Where the real problems lies is in the decades of implied consent
from government officials towards illegal immigrants coming into the country. We
also know factually that the Obama administration is dealing guns to Mexican
drug cartels. So the issue is complex and frankly dirty and in some cases
devious. We need solutions not hypocritical or myopic finger
pointing. The churches stance is a humane approach to a complex problem.
Many people here are saying you're not a good Christian if you don't have
compassion and love for illegals. . .I don't believe that wanting people to
follow the law is unchristian or why would we have them? There would be mass
confusion without laws. We split families every day when we send criminals of
any color or ethnicity to jail for a crime. Dad's and moms, sons and daughters
are taken from their families to pay the price for their crime. So be it. . .
they made the choice to break the law. It doesn't mean they are a horrible
person . . . they made the choice now suffer the consequences. This pertains to
anyone breaking any law!
@ Common Sense 11: "The first presidency and I believe that there are NO
borders in Gods eye." Strange, the first presidency preaches that this
nation was preserved for the last days from where the gospel would be spread to
all nations. If we had no borders, why do we need a military to protect us? Why
didn't we roll over and let Japan take the U. S. after Pearl Harbor? Why do we
have a military and laws? Why do we need the constitution? Just let communist
China invade and have the U. S. Better yet, just erase the borders and in 5
years the U. S. will look like and become Upper-Mexico, or perhaps Western-Iran.
Perhaps someday the rule of law will be universal and we can all live in peace
without borders, but in the dangerous world we live in today, we have to have
borders in tact to protect our way of life, our laws, and our freedom.
What difference does it make whether or not this family is LDS? The church says
that we need to "remember the commandment to 'love thy neighbor,' (I can
love them and still hold them accountable for breaking the law. Not just because
they defied a deportation order but because they were probably involved in other
illegal activity, i.e., identity theft). I believe in the importance of keeping
families intact (so deport them all together and that will solve that issue),
and the federal governments obligation to secure its border (great, but it's not
D&C 58:21 " Let no man break the laws of the land, for he that keepeth
the laws of God hath no need to break the laws of the land."
We shouldn't have such strict quotas in the first place. Liberalize the law to
restrict only the criminals. We need more good people.
I'm amazed by the weak-minded "believers" who claim to be torn over
the Church's position on this issue. The Church is advocating legal reform of
existing immigration policy, not reckless abandon of the law. Besides, I think
the Church clearly emphasized that God's law and the US's man-made
border/immigration laws have some incompatibilities which should be addressed.
Is that so difficult to understand?
I keep hearing that illegal immigration is no worse than a speeding ticket and
we all speed therefore... ENOUGH! To be able to work here, illegal immigrants
have to use false or forged papers, a FELONY! Come here be deported and return,
and it is a FELONY! Taking jobs away from citizens of this country when we have
unemployment numbers through the roof IS NOT VERY CHRIST-LIKE, neither is
cutting in line in front of foreign nationals who are waiting their turn to
become citizens. "Honoring, obeying and sustaining the law" USED to
be one of the major tenets and beliefs of my Church. Sadly, no more. And why
does immigrant Yapias always blame the "far right"? I'm a Democrat,
my wife Republican and this cuts across party lines.
He doesn't know if they broke any law?Leave in 2008 and 2009. Didn't
You are right, common sense, in that we ALL are here on borrowed land. We feel
the blessings of freedom. Do we now stand confident, looking at others who have
difficulties we don't know, judging and such. Have we forgotten that we could
have seen a different United States had the plans of the 9-11 terrorists fully
taken place. Then, how would our freedoms be. Compassion,
recognizing law, compassion, recognizing what people may be dealing with. We
proudly judge. When you look at the natural disasters of the world today, and
the events that unfold before our eyes, our fragile life could change to give
each of us the opportunity to see how it feels to not be allowed the freedoms of
this country. Reform is a good thing, Compassion is a wonderful thing... and
respecting the blessings we currently have of living in this country that for
now, has some safety, for some people. I do pray for all people...
in all their circumstances, as we all are on borrowed land.
The first presidency and I believe that there are NO borders in Gods eye. Why
cant this be drilled into you hypocritical peoples minds! UGH. Get a history
book, find out whose ancestors were really here first, and then, only then make
your judgement's. This isn't about liberal or conservative. It's
about COMMON SENSE. Learn it.
Am I the only one here who does not see any inconsistency with the LDS
church's statement?Love thy neighbor -good thingImportant to
keep families intact -another good thingGovernment should secure the
border -also a good thingTo me, this doesn't equate to
"encouraging illegal behavior" as so many have claimed, and if loving
your neighbor is illegal in this country, then I sure hope my neighbors are NOT
law-abiding citizens.Joking aside, if this family have caused
legitimate harm to other people, then deportation may be warranted. I don't know
the details so I won't judge, but I do know it's practically and financially
impossible to deport even half of the undocumented immigrants in this country.
(and no, I'm not for open borders) Let's help the good ones that are
here, invest more in securing the border, and continue to prevent and prosecute
identity theft and other criminal behavior.
Would be good if we provided a way for such people to be legal. It might be
conjecture, but it does seem they were good people. Why would we want laws to
remain in place that do not allow such people?
What needs to be determined is the the balance of deportations based on national
origin just to make sure that the same number of individuals and families are
deported equally for violation of law. I don't recall reading or seeing much
about Mexican illegals being deported but whenever it's a family from another
country, they seem to make the news? Why is that when you consider that 59% of
illegal immigrants in this country come from Mexico?
This man was a custodian at a Draper Charter School. Charter schools are
taxpayer funded. I wonder who was in charge of doing the background check on
him. In public schools, not only teachers undergo a background check, but so do
other full time personnel such as custodians and bus drivers. Most good
background checks would have picked up this illegal status. A background check
that didn't find this must have been very sloppy. When I worked for
the Jordan School District they did checks on employees that had worked for
years for the district. They picked up on several that had been arrested for
DUI and other offenses. If an illegal alien could pass a background check for
this charter school, so could any pedophile, and other serious criminals. I am
not saying that this illegal alien is a dangerous criminal, but I am saying that
a poor background check was doneIf this illegal alien was hired
after July 1,2009 it means that this charter school was not using E-Verify as
required by Utah Law 63G-11-103
It is so hard to comment on this story because all the facts appear not to be
presented. I have a ex-sister in law who is from China and when she got her
papers and came to the states to be with my brother who she had married she had
a great dislike for the United States. She has a very hard time with the
language.In the years that they were married it seemed that she wanted to be
back in Chima with her mother. They have sinced divoriced which was very sad.
It's inconsistency like this that drives people away from organized religion.
They want to know why people are moving to independent churches? Practice what
I personally get really weary of individuals demonizing the LDS Church. Good
grief, don't you guys have a life or something rather than being filled with
such hate for a body of people and a church that does much good? Isn't this
bigotry? Aren't you being a hypocrite in the highest order? I personally try
to live what I am taught in the LDS Church which is to obey and sustain the laws
of the land and to be a good neighbor and an honest/ethical/kind/diversely open
minded to others individual.Please get a life people and find a life
filled with something other than hate and misplaced judgement.Thank
What happened to obeying, honoring and sustaining the law? Are we now free to
chose which laws we obey.......until we're caught?
If anyone is interested, just about any ethnic Church unit has members who are
here illegally, sometimes even in leadership positions. There was a time when
Church policy was that missionaries could not even teach someone who was in the
US illegally. Members who chose to stay here illegally could not be advanced in
the priesthood or hold temple recommends. I think that Church policy changes
have been to the advantage of all involved. As a retired ICE agent,
I cannot overlook the possible political ties in this particular case, but it
may only be a part of a current nationwide mandate of some sort from DHS
headquarters in Washington. It would not surprise me however to learn that
someone has decided to punish Utah this way instead of filing a lawsuit as they
did in Arizona.
2011"Given the support for HB116 and the rest of the package that
came out, it does make it look like the church is trying to protect illegal
aliens,".1878"Given the support for the LDS prophet
and the other Church leaders in hiding, it does make it look like the Church is
trying to protect illegal marriages."
I live on the border and see the results of illegal immigration every day. My
position has always been that we need immigration law reform to allow
law-abiding contributing people to immigrate legally--with a sponsor, a criminal
background check, a health check and a job. We shouldn't give automatic
citizenship to people just because they are born in this country if their parent
or parents are here illegally. We should punish criminal illegals, not just
send them thru the revolving door that is our border. When people
ask for asylum, they are usually denied, even in cases where their lives are
seriously in danger. I personally know of four such cases. So when one really
needs asylum, it's dangerous to ask for it because if you are denied, then you
are deported. If you just stay below the radar, often you can live here in
safety. That's another thing that should be changed.One of my sons
is a lawyer who does pro bono work with a human rights organization who appeals
deportation orders and you wouldn't believe the horrors these people have gone
thru. I wish he could help here.
Can we please stop quoting Yapias??First, he says the father didn't commit
a crime. If he is not here legally, then he committed a crime.Second, he
eludes that the "right-wing" is not compassionate. I'm not sure this
is a right-wing, left-wing issue. Last I saw, many right-wingers want the
cheap, under-the-table, illegal labor in Utah.Stop quoting this guy, as
his underground networks bringing more and more folks here illegally is very
much part of the problem!
If you are going to do it right (by the law book), then enforce all the US
immigrantion laws equally will each illegal immigrant (for all 12 million of
them).Likewise, will the Federal and State governments, please
enforce all of the current immigration laws on the books. In my limited views,
US citizens are the biggest contributors to breaking immgration laws; just look
at the number they employ for profit reasons alone. Real leaders,
please be consistent with your enforcement efforts in solving this very complex
Bye the law is the law, Being lds does not in anyway make you an exception to
the law. If you are Not legal then you are not legal and you need cought and
deported.They can be a Great Mormon Family in El Salvador. There are
many.My Stake is establishing a Tongan Ward. Part of me says good
and part of me says this is America Adapt. I would like to see a
mainland Ward or evan Stake. Not Based on Race but based on Lanague, Custom,
Culture and experience. I am not the only one who wants to be able to understand
the Speakers and the Service. I would like to go to a Service more in line with
what is on the BYU Channel. We have lived here 10 years and have
Adapted Mostly.The 1st thing I would do is Run an Ice Check on the
leaders and the members.We do not have Hawaiian Wards where the
Service is in Hawaiian. Most Hawaiians do not speak Hawaiian they speak English
or a form of English called Pidge. The mosre local you are the more Pidge you
speak. Along with 100 other tongues.
Millions faced with the same decision come here legally each year. Making
excuses does not negate the criminal activity. As an LDS member I
have been taught that Gods laws are eternal. I guess they are not? You want to solve the problem? Stop accepting it. Counsel people to come here
legally. If that had been done years ago, we would not have the problem. That is
If this guy was a gardener the posts here would be screaming for his
I have been blessed by meeting many LDS,Catholics, Buddhist, Atheist, etc. and I
must say that I have never seen such little compassion on a group of human
beings as the ones who write from Utah. I know is not an LDS thing. It seems is
just provincialism from living in isolation in a small environment. During my
mission, I never understood why Elders from outside Utah would make fun of
people from Utah, particularly if they were from outside Salt Lake City. I have
not reached a conclusion and may be I never will. However, it seems that this
sense of righteousness and superiority and lack of love is more a geographical
limitation covered under a false pretense of Christianity.I beg
forgiveness, I'm passing judgment. I welcome any ideas to clarify and take me
out of my confusion if that is the case.
I know as a member of the LDS Church my faith has been shaken over this issue.
What laws are we to obey and which are we to disregard? The word Hypocrocy just
screams in my head. Do not separate familys? Done every day in applying law. To
the sheep who defend the church in this should we just open the gate and let
every one in? Then what do we have? Think about it! This guy broke the law now
he needs to pay. Bye Bye!!!!!!!
There are many people who came here illegally or overstayed their visa who are
decent, hard-working members of society. Many are faithful members of the
Church. Some came here when the country was more or less turning a blind eye, in
fact making them feel invited. I think it's wrong to pass judgment on these
individuals. If I had been in their shoes I might have made the same choice.
It's comforting to me that the Church has taken a moderate stand on the issue.
I still say REPORT then let ICE deport. Immigration officials may deport Mormon
branch president and family ?. A illegal leader of an LDS Church
Spanish-speaking congregation who faces deportation unwittingly finds himself in
the middle of a religious turn in Utah's ongoing illegal immigration debate.
That's like "Superman Renounces US Citizenship". Just like President
Obama, in his concert tours, Superman is going global, he is to renounce his US
citizenship to become a citizen of the universe. The classic American
superhero makes his decision after getting criticized for joining an
anti-Iranian demonstration in the landmark 900th issue of Action Comics. The
Iranian government sees this as official US endorsement of the protests. Im
tired of having my actions construed as instruments of US policy. The Man of
Steel says in one frame. Truth, Justice and the American Way, it's not enough
anymore. Superman also says he believes he has been thinking too small and he
can't help but see the bigger picture. I hope citizen of the universe comes
with a visa to visit/work in the United States or Ole Supes is breaking the law
everytime he flies into US airspace.
re: PaganBig business make huge profits off illegals and Big
Democrats make huge government socialized programs and beauracracy off
illegals.Pick your poison.Illegals are being exploited
either way so it seems like the sensible thing to do would be to stop the
exploitation by STOPPING the illegals from coming in?
re: lehiaggieDid you honestly just compare illegal immigration with
speeding? Are there not degrees of seriousness of sin? Are you that clueless
you can't differentiate?Judge righteous judgement.re:
TORDid I say "round up everyone"? No I said we ought to empty
our prisons because roughly 20% are illegals and they have already established
what type of people they are by their choices to end up in prison.You people are pathetically dramatic.Those of you suggesting that
we just stick our heads in the sand then stand around and sing kum-by-ya in
regards to the immigration issue are just blind to all the existing problems
that are caused.Look around the world at other countries that have
tried to do it. They are a mess and rueing the day they ever did. Now they are
at various stages of trying to stop or undo it.Gee, I wonder why.For example, in many Latin American cultures it is completely acceptable
to take bribes for any and all business transactions. You want to add that to
our list of problems?People need to get realistic. The list of
problems is long.
In the 70's an Apostle told my investigator who wanted to migrate to the usa to
stay home and build zion in his homeland.....this good church leader will do
great things in Mexico!Go get em tiger!
humm?? Thank you for your kind words :)
I have a friend from Italy who has been waiting on U.S citizenship for years.
I'm all for immigration, but there needs to be a balance. People coming here
from Central and South America need to wait their turn just like everyone else,
and if you don't you should be deported because it isn't fair for everyone else.
There are consequences for breaking laws. Some, like this, are heart wrenching.
God bless that family.
No one has ever asked me about my immigration status, but if they did, and I was
illegal, then it would be "cya, hate to bya." Life is cruel sometimes
but we usually suffer the consequences of the choices we make. He chose to be
here illegally and this is the consequence of his choices. "We believe in
being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying,
honoring, and sustaining the law."
I don't have a lot of sympathy for illegal aliens, having seen what damage they
do, overall. I think there is more to this story that currently reported.I think amnesty is completely wrong. Lots of people argue that we can't
deport them all, and I'm sure that is true, but we don't have to deport them
all. If enforcement is stepped up, a whole bunch will go home. If E-verify is
used, a lot more will go home. If they get caught using a stolen SSN and get
prison time, and this is publicized, even more will go home.
While serving as a Bishop in Arizona a convert baptism was scheduled. It is
very, very easy to know if a person from a foreign country is here leagally or
illegally. This person was here illegally. I was new and wasn't sure she could
be baptized. As I checked into it, made phone calls, etc., I was told she could
be baptized and not to push the subject any further. I still have a problem with
this since "are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen" and
"we believe in honoring, obeying and sustaining the law". Maybe
someday I will understand but for now I still don't feel a person here illegally
should be allowed to be baptized. Somebody help me understand?
IngridUsa,I like your thoughts, especially, "but we trusted
that doing the right thing would blessed us,so everything would be done fast and
it did".Thank you for doing the right thing. May you continue
to be blessed!
I'm not done yet ha ha...So, I had no problems with the law. I know
sometimes, we individuals, make choices that doesn't look to bad when you have a
good intention, but in the end, if it's contrary to the law, you'll need to pay
the consequences.It's sad for a family in this situation, but when you
make a choice, the consequences of this choice will come, so be careful with
what you choose.During the process with the immigration, I had to do lots
of medical exams, and they checked my backgroung too. Of course, they have the
right to know who is trying to come to live in their house. They need to make
sure that it's someone that doesn't have a bad decease that can bring to other
people's life and if the person have problems with the laws of the country they
live.When you come ilegally, they can't see who it's coming to live here
and what kind of person it is. We have to obey the law, they are there for the
benefit Of the people.
I understand how hard it can be to be deported from a place that you are trying
to make a living with your family, but we still have laws that we have to abey.
I'm from Brazil and my husband it's from Utah. He went to Brazil to marry me and
after our honeymoon, he went back home and I stayed behind waiting for the
immigration to take care of my papers.I had a tourist visa and I could
have moved to the US, but I was raised with a religious parents that thought me
not just to try my best to obey God's law, but to try to obey the country law
too, so we decided that it wasn't right. At the time we didn't know when we
would see each other again(thank goodness, it took only 2 months for my
interview), but we trusted that doing the right thing would blessed us,so
everything would be done fast and it did. The first week I got here, I received
my Social Security Number and my Green Card...
It's been reported in other media that he was denied asylum. If so, he might of
ignored a deportation order. People usually get articles written
about them because of activists like Tony Yapais and their lawyers reporting it.
It's a last ditch effort to get public support behind them.
1.- The Current Immigration Law is a failure. And Yes! We need to have amnesty
for all those people who have been here for a specific time and have not broken
the law since residing on U.S. soil. Is there a better and realistic option?2.- The article lacks in specifics and everything we can say about the reasons
why Mr. Callejas and his family are being deported is mere speculation.3.-
The fact that this gentleman is a Church Leader doesn't make him innocent nor
guilty. 4.- If Mr. Callejas is being unfairly targeted let's hope the INS
can work with this man and his family. As a naturalized citizen myself I have
gone through the whole process of immigration, through out the years in the U.S.
I have seen many instances in which INS officers have displayed great humanity
and compassion to honest people whose only crime is to look for a better future
for them and their families.
lehiaggieOverstaying a visa is a crime punishable by deportation and
a fine. Crossing the border is a crime (misdemeanor) punishable by a fine, jail,
and deportation. Stealing an id, working without permission, lying on a 1-9 form
etc. are all felonies. It's not like rolling through a stop sign.
Illegal immigration is a crime that leads to other crimes to work. When did the LDS church say our immigration laws were bad? We have
the most liberal laws in the world, and allow more people here legally than any
other country. There is nothing wrong with our laws, what's wrong is people
using that excuse to encourage more people to break them.
Too bad we don't have a system that would allow a sponsor (individual or family)
to accept responsibility for undocumented/illegal aliens. The sponsor pays a
fee/fine and is on the hook to see that certain language, civics, ethics and
other education/training is performed. People of good moral character and who
have made the effort to contribute to society regardless of their immigration
status (i.e. lack of documentation) could work towards citizenship. Undocumented
aliens who are here to take advantage would not easily find sponsors and would
be subject to deportation when apprehended. I'm sure in this man's case that
just as many people would step forward to be his sponsor as there would be
people willing to drive the bus (actually, I believe they fly) to the border to
drop him off.
'Why don't you blog facts rather than your opinions, which always seem to be
hateful towards the LDS Church.' - panamadesnews | 3:11 p.m. 'I
guess, in this case, I can stand with some of the LDS members on this issue.' -
Pagan | 2:07 p.m., page 1. Wow! I paint the LDS in a positive light
and I am STILL a 'hater!' Nice. Back to the: 'The LDS
Church does not get involved in the status of illegal persons.' - Same *'LDS Church grapples with missionary immigration issues' - 04/27/09 - Mormon
Lawyers website 'Over the weekend the Salt Lake Tribune reported on an LDS
missionary returning home from his mission was detained in the Cincinnati
Airport for lack of documentation. The young man apparently was an undocumented
alien, and his arrest has sparked new discussion about how the LDS Church deals
with immigration issues.' Good day.
The problem with being one of the 'good guys' is that you have to obey laws and
live a moral life. So when we say someone living in the shadows outside the law
is a good person, we change the meaning of 'good'. Everyone who makes
disobedience to laws a habit has a good excuse...but that doesn't make them
good.It is not good to work under a stolen identity or
off-the-books.It is not good to encourage people to come here and
live in an exploitable underclass to depress wages.It is not good to
look the other way while illegal aliens and employers break laws; or to suddenly
enforce the rules and break up families.And it is not good to expect
the law-abiding citizens and legal aliens to bear the brunt of the misdeeds of
illegal aliens and their enablers: illegal employers, identity theft artists,
coyotes, pro-illegal immigration lobbyists and corrupt government officials.It's time for everyone to start being good. I think that's what the LDS
church is saying: be good to each other.
Sorry, Pagan: You are wrong again. The LDS Church does not get involved in the
status of illegal persons. If they did, he probably wouldn't have been called
as a branch president. Why don't you blog facts rather than your opinions,
which always seem to be hateful towards the LDS Church.
Deport him... enough said.
ChadS said: "Illegally entering and staying in a country is akin to rolling
through a stop sign? ..."The answer is, depends. If it's your
first time caught then it is a civil offense, not a criminal one. If caught and
deported then the second illegal entry is a felony.
ICE's policy is self-evident. The agency makes sure it gets newspaper or TV
coverage whenever it deports a fine, upstanding undocumented member of our
society. The reason? To drum up support for a so-called comprehensive
immigration bill, a code word for amnesty for illegal aliens. Our wonderful
representatives in Congress will say, "This is a one-time amnesty only. If
you can't prove you've been breaking our immigration laws, you're not eligible
for amnesty." That's tantamount to saying, "If you've been waiting in
line for a visa or green card, sorry, we've decided to give priority to the
proven lawbreakers." But try telling prospective illegal aliens that this
is a one-time program. They'll come by the millions, knowing full well that our
legislators are chicken-hearted cowards who will cave in the next time we have
millions of illegal aliens in danger of deportation. Amnesty will do nothing
more than encourage further illegal immigration. If Congress decides to charge
a fine, penalty or fee for the right
@Say No To Bo:Perhaps you will get the whole story, and maybe a
little more, from the other local newspaper. I'm sure they will tell it all and
will leave no stones unturned in doing so, even to the extent of hurtful
non-information against the family. I'm sure they will also find a way to show
negativity to the LDS Church because the man was called as a branch president.
Pagan,And on this issue, I have to disagree with you.
What are you doing DN and KSL will follow on for tonight news? Leave the family
Why is this even in the news? There are many deported immigrants that never get
their faces in the newspaper. It appears that this family was at least trying to
contribute to society. So they are here illegally. That's a travesty. I feel bad
they are being deported, but that is the law. Why embarrass this family any more
by posting their faces and names in the news paper? Also, if the laws are bad,
let's change them. I don't think enforcing laws based on how we feel about them
supports the rule of law or is safe for society in the long run.
Illegally entering and staying in a country is akin to rolling through a stop
sign? I think not. "Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow
man?" Sound familiar?
Eddie | 2:10 p.m., Agreed! Ergo my post at Pagan | 2:07
p.m., page 1.
The current folly is demonizing anyone who falls outside our way of thinking.
This is a difficult subject that has devastating consequences to individuals and
families. It becomes too easy to blame all of societys ills on people finding
themselves in desperate circumstances. Any laws broken by most of these people
pale in comparison to higher laws which should be considered by people of
I believe the immigration solution is pretty simple, however nobody has the
political gumption to pull it off.
@ PaganThere are two words in your comments that you need to pay
special attention to."Perhaps" and "claims".Before you post anything, people should get the facts and not guess or
take some articles as fact until they have been proven to be fact.
Here's another: *'Mormon-Owned Paper Stands With Immigrants' - By
JEREMY W. PETERS - 09/19/10- NY Times 'SALT LAKE CITY Joseph A.
Cannon is nobodys liberal. (sic) The Newss push for a more liberal embrace of
undocumented immigrants has led to a collision between its editorial mission and
its conservative, mostly Mormon, readers. But if this issue seems to stray from
the reliably conservative politics of The News, Utahs second-largest paper
behind The Salt Lake Tribune, that may be in part because it is owned by the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.' If this came off as
'anti-mormon', I apologize. My intent was only to show the growing trend with
some fo the LDS faith. I do NOT agree with immigration in America today.
While the laws are clear, prefer to look at the 'human factor' when addressing
immigration. Not to mention the fact that big buisness makes HUGE profit
on hiring someone who has ZERO access to legal defense, and offer's them less
than minimum-wages. I guess, in this case, I can stand with some of
the LDS members on this issue.
First of all, this is Utah, this is the Deseret News and LDS owned newspaper and
this is about an LDS member of the church. Thus the reason to tell his
religion. So proud of you Utah law for getting rid of those good
families, you would not want people who contribute to society to stay, you need
to follow California's way of doing it, especially San Francisco, just look the
other way for those that commit crime and murder. There are a lot
of rapists, murderers and gang members that come to this country illegally and
are still here. And there are good families that come here illegally, I do not
condone either, but my heart has softened and I do think that those that are
here contributing need to be offered a more fair chance. But alas,
instead they send the decent ones away and keep all those that are taking and
oh, yeah, they do give, they give in crime.
His being from El Salvador makes this whole issue fishy. During the Bush
presidency we worked out an argreement with El Salvador and also one with
Honduras in which we essentially gave their former residents in the US permanent
status here. El Salvador can not afford to have their nationals in the US
returned. That would double the population of El Salvador.If this
man had fled the equally if not less represive government of Cuba he would be a
legal immigrant with no threat of deportation. It is just that the El Salvador
government repressed people under a different guise. There is no reason that we
should deport this family. It is built around a refugee system that was
politically slanted instead of recognizing the real concerns of those who flee
'Not sure why they're publishing his religion.' - "Liberal Ted | 1:08 p.m.
April 29, 2011 Perhaps because his faith was actively trying to
keep his illegal status a secret? *'Source claims state (Utah)
finds, but hides, immigrant ID theft' - By Lee Davidson - DSnews - 09/02/10
The article did not say what the violation was. ( "Oh that men could see a
little clearer or judge less harshly where they do not know." )
As advocated by the Church and admonished by Deseret News, we need to change the
laws and make our good neighbors citizens.The same scenario has
played out in our past. Women broke the laws to obtain the right to vote.
American Indians fought for their freedom. In my lifetime, blacks broke the
laws to become full citizens. As did their supporters (e.g. Freedom Riders).Today we have laws that are flat wrong, as the Church suggests. Let's
change them!As in each time in our history, whenever we have
extended full citizenship to those among us, our country has been blessed.
It's so tiresome to read, time and again, people's assumptions about one's
immigration status. There are myriad ways to become illegal, and crossing the
border is but one of them. What if these people came here legally but allowed
their status to expire? If you think "fixing the border," will fix the
problem, you don't understand that there are larger problems at play. After all,
once someone get in, how do they stay? Cut off people's lifeblood that allows
them to stay and you solve the border problem. The border is a band-aide and
band-wagon issue. This is the only country (of 4) that I've lived
in that doesn't have a national ID card that actually identifies a person (face
and finger print) and that must be renewed regularly. It's too easy to fake
your ID in the US.
"Liberal Ted | 1:08 p.m. April 29, 2011 Salt Lake City, UTNot
sure why they're publishing his religion. I wonder how many catholics, atheists
have been deported without their religion put in the title."Seeing that many in Utah seem to "know better than the Prophet", his
religion does matter. The LDS Church took a stance on the immigration issue
only to have the First Presidency challenged by their followers. They have been
doing their best to wriggle out from listening to the man they sustain as
Prophet. How many of these people who now disagree with President
Monson and the LDS Church policy were the same people condemning those who
disagreed with the LDS Church stance on Prop 8? Tables have been turned.
Religion in this case is significant because he is a Branch President, someone
of leadership in the church and community.The anti illegal immigrant
LDS flag bearers are scaring people away from investigating and joining the
church. I believe they will all be accountable to a higher power some day.
I am glad the law is being enforced. Forgiveness is wonderful; we
expect all to satisfy the penalty for breaking the law and we will forgive.
Sounds like a horrible family.....why him when gangests run loose? I just don't
@The Final WordImmigration is a complicated issue both in policy and
practice. You can't solve the issue by deporting everyone (at very least, how
do you propose to pay for the enormous cost of identifying, rounding up, and
transporting all 11 million-or-so "illegal" immigrants?)But whatever your stance on policy, there is scriptural support for both sides
of the coin. (Mercy not robbing justice, and justice not robbing mercy)."...of you it is required to forgive all men.""...Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."
Indeed, I wonder why this man and his family are getting special attention by
ICE. They don't just deport you for illegal alien status, just ask the millions
that are still here. Something made him stick out from the crowd.
Making assumptions on immigration issues is very dangerous. ICE officials
investigate so many cases they don't have time to target specific groups. Drug
dealers and saints are all on the radar of ICE officials but some hit the news
and some don't. This happened to hit the news because he is a Branch president.
Our country is founded on laws and until a law changes it will be enforced. If
this family broke immigration laws they should pay consequences regardless of
their efforts. This whole idea of "upstanding citizens" etc. is a
joke and needs to stop. Simply opening the borders is going to be a very, very,
dangerous policy for our country. Letting people go freely without proper
immigration doucments is going to be very, very dangerous. We as US citizens
need to work together to come up with a solution working with lawmakers to fix
the current system. Defending those who break immigration law or any other law
for that fact really destroys what our entire country was founded on regardless
of how it was done. What other country in the world allows open immigration and
lets people come in and out as they want?
Not sure why they're publishing his religion. I wonder how many catholics,
atheists have been deported without their religion put in the title.With that to the side, if they came here illegally then deport them. It's that
simple. I'm not concerned about their belief, I'm concerned about them coming
here legally or not.He can serve as a Branch President in his own
I am tired of hearing the hypocrisy about obeying the law. Next time
you speed or roll through a stop sign, I expect you to run down the local police
office, tell them what you did, and pay your traffic fine. "He
who is without sin..."
"...we believe in honoring, obeying, and sustaining the law."Best wishes.I'm not quite sure why we don't deport all the
criminal illegals in our prisons...as long as we are deporting people for
breaking the law.Government is so pathetic in how they administer
Please note: In order to live in Utah as an illegal immigrant serious crimes
must be committed. Either willful tax evasion (working under the table and
refusing to pay taxes) or identity theft to obtain an ID to work. Any Utah
citizen would be imprisoned for such crimes under the legal code. These are serious crimes and no church should look upon a member as being in
good standing at any level if they are willfully living as a criminal in this
way. It just seems immoral and wrong for the LDS or any other Church to welcome
people into The Body of Christ who willfully perpetrate serious crime on
society. These crimes are not the equivalent of speeding. More on the level of
fraud, embezzlement, etc I dont know this Branch Presidents exact
status but I certainly would question any church that allows someone openly
committing fraud to stand as a leader in its population. Hope thats not the case
here. His release was appropriate, his appointment in the first place probably
Is this what we want? Community leaders being forced out of the country because
of a stupid technicality on some expired visa? The only thing worse that this
is if the kids are/were US Citizens who stayed behind. This is
Cherilyn Eagar's dream for this country, to deport the sterling scholars and
community leaders, to tear families apart and to undermine the economy? I don't get it. I'm super conservative on so many issues, but this one
escapes me. There are plenty of Americans to fight, why fight this guy in this
Has Utah and the LDS church painted a target on itself?
Something's fishy here. ICE doesn't just deport somebody. They have a triage
method of deporting the most dangerous felons first.And the whole
family??? What's up with that?Perhaps they were previously deported.Perhaps they were fugitive absconders (aka defied a deportation order).Perhaps this is a PR ploy from the Obama administration to make a point.
After all, it's amnesty season in Washington again.Sadly, I worry that we
won't get the whole story from the DN due to their affiliation with the Mormon