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Comments about ‘Former Cougars find flaws in Deadspin story about BYU athletics’

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Published: Friday, April 15 2011 9:42 a.m. MDT

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Where's Stockton ???
Bowling Green, OH

@3for5spotshooter

What the heck are you talking about??? First off let's get the Blacks given the priesthood date right. It was in 1978 not during the civil right's movement of the 1960's. And the Extermination order was decreed by the white Govenor of Missouri Milburn Boggs in the early 1840's with the intent to exterminate or drive the Mormons out of Missouri. It has nothing to do with your absurd misinformative remark that the Mormons were out to exterminate Blacks. That's obviously a spin of some preacher who makes his living off of preaching and selling prayers and blessings for money... and who's obviously lost a few members of his congregation to the LDS church along the money from his collection plates that they used to donate and provided his means of support. If you're going to come on here and make rediculous comments like that then you truly are the fool that you undoubtedly have just portrayed yourself to be.

hedgehog
Ann Arbor, MI

"Curtis Brown was recruited and spent his first two years at BYU as a non-LDS kid. He is perhaps in the best position to comment on life as a non-LDS and LDS student-athlete."

Cougar in tX,

Actually I think this would be a weak example.

Clearly Brown was sold on the LDS faith and was moving toward joining. The only real example you should use is the non-mormon who had no intention to join the church. That's a much different prespective.... and one that unfortunately is looked down on in provo.

Uteology
Fort Worth, Texas

"Since 1993, of the 70 student-athletes suspended for breaking the honor code, 54 of them (80 percent) were minorities and 41 of them (60 percent) were black"

---------

Is this number true? Can BYU confirm it?

If so then I think that about says it all regardless of the opinions of pro or anti-BYU former players.

Chris_B
Salt Lake City, UT

Bottom Line - the Honor Code is one of the BEST things about BYU, and it sets it apart from most of the other schools in the country.

I am a white LDS male who attended BYU in the 1980s. In 1986, I did the same thing Brandon Davies did - I slept with my girlfriend. I am not proud of it. I felt bad about doing it. I spoke with my parents first, prayed about it, and then decided to see my BYU bishop. He was kind and helpful. I voluntarily withdrew myself from the university. I was also disfellowshipped.

I had a lot to lose. I had a scholarship and a great job as a dormitory resident assistant (free room and board). Basically, everything was paid for - a sweet deal for a college kid. I could have kept my mouth shut; my girlfriend wanted me to. But, I believe I did the right thing.

A year later I was back in full fellowship and eventually graduated from BYU. The diploma hangs on my office wall and I'm proud of my school. It doesn't matter who or what you are - the Code is the Code.

Cougar in Texas
Houston, TX

hedgehog

Did you listen to Brown's interview?

He had NO intention of joining when he came to BYU.

Perhaps they could also talk to Brian Logan, who just finished his eligibility as a non-LDS student-athlete. When Logan gives a positive review of his time at BYU (which he has already done unprovoked in the past), then what will your excuse be?

I M LDS 2
Provo, UT

Solomon,

No, Koke speculated without data, pure and simple.

I don't much worry whether or not you would hire me. I make over six figures doing statistics.

I'm guessing you don't.

As Trump would say, "YOU are fired!"

3for5spotshooter
Sun Valley, Idaho

OK..

Anybody know anything about pharmaceutical companies and drug testing procedures?

The statistical sample here is TOO SMALL...

Maybe sociology?

Again too small a sample population...

Maybe the question should be how many athletes and non-athletes at BYU are disciplined for honor code violations...

and what is the makeup of the population...

would be a good place to start...

Again...

Didn't know before I came...

Don't think so...

More likely..

Heard it and it went in one ear and out the other...

NOw I recall Jimmer coming because he was shown dances, cookies and punch...

and NO DRUGS and NO PARTIES...

So my sample is one little white guard and so...

Only black athletes are shown parties..

Isn't my sample large enough?

Guess I'll write a book...

Tempest in a tea pot..

worf
Mcallen, TX

What's a minority?

Hedgehog,

Are you prejudice toward BYU? Talk about hyprocrisy.

Still Blue after all these years
Kaysville, UT

Clearly the Crowton and Hale years were a disaster.

Where's Stockton ???
Bowling Green, OH

@3for5spotshooter
No...but I can direct you to where you can get a drug test...Obviously since you haven't come close to commenting on the subject of this discussion on former minority athletes who broke BYU honor standards and were disciplined... I wouldn't rule out that there might be a need for you to have one.

MBAmama
Kaysville, UT

Since 1993, of the 70 student-athletes suspended for breaking the honor code, 54 of them (80 percent) were minorities and 41 of them (60 percent) were black"

---------

Is this number true? Can BYU confirm it?

If so then I think that about says it all regardless of the opinions of pro or anti-BYU former players.

----------

No, these numbers are not accurate because BYU does not release information about who is suspended or how many students are disciplined by the Honor Code office. The only figures they were able to correct would be those that were either outed in the media or had criminal charges (therefore, public). I knew dozens of white students (and even a few athletes) at BYU that were busted for the honor code and suspended, but most people never hear about it because they either leave quietly, or on their own.

The deadspin.com article was horribly biased and inaccurate, and the media reporting on it have not done anyone justice. What has hapeened to journalism that they think it is ok to just take one side and run with it??

newwest
Ferron, UT

If you listen to the Kehl interview, he did a case-by-case analysis of the black players that were suspended, and found a high percentage had either been charged with crimes (which would have gotten them suspended at most universities) or had pregnant girlfriends (couldn't hide the transgression). When you eliminate those groups, the disparity between races isn't nearly so dramatic.
I listened to Darron Smith's interview with Gordon Monson. He danced all around the question of why he didn't include some interviews with black players who had a good experience at BYU, and basically said "You'll have to buy my book to get those." So, he's using some sensational material to promote his book, which has yet to find a publisher.
There are so many factors to examine. For example, BYU has many married football players. What is the percentage of married players, white and black? If there is a higher percentage of married white players, wouldn't that affect the number of chastity-related HC violations?
And so on...

aggieblue
Saint George, UT

Has everyone read the article and responses of the three cited in the story. They are all black, only three, what about the other 67. Where are the excerpts from their interviews. The article cites .... other cases, media reports, and interviews as the source. It sounds like weak investigative reporting, sometimes "data" is purposally skewed to support the allegation. I wonder here.

I wonder where this data came from. You know that the Y keeps this as confidental as possible. The reason that so many of those known cases are athletes is simply because, when a player is absent from a game, it is obvious and public.

It appears to me that the article is designed to identify the Y is, as the article states, "its racial legacy". It is not about the Y as much as it is an assult on the LDS belief.

When you enroll at the Y, you sign the honor code. Why would anyone say, they didn't think that they meant it. Rules are rules and your signature is a bond.

Enough said, the greatest majority of students, white black or other, respect and honor the honor code.

worf
Mcallen, TX

It spreads like cancer. Wrong doing is being excused with the minority card. It's destroying the country.

CG
Orem, UT

I M LDS 2

As any statistician making six figures should know, statistics are meaningless unless they account for all reasonably possible variables.

Since the author of this study only considered race, his study is fundamentally flawed. You as a supposed statistician should know this.

If I were you boss, six figures or not, I'd have serious doubts about the quality of your job performance.

hedgehog
Ann Arbor, MI

I guess the guestion is. If you're a black non-mormon with no intentions to join the church, Y would you ever consider BYU?

This ariticle screams run away - run away as fast as you can. Your type is not wanted here.

As BYU attempts to capture more of a national "exposure", what does it say to the world having almost no black players on the team? For many (if not most) this will be the face of the mormon church.

Koke
Spanish Fork, UT

IM LDS 2,

Yes, I am a statistician. It appears that my logic offends the conclusion you want to draw and that you seek to discredit my arguments by turning this into a debate over semantics or even my individual worth. Let's get back to the point.

There is tremendous stupidity in drawing conclusions about the question of bigotry from raw comparisons of unvetted data. I made no conclusions, but only put forward the hypothesis that if you remove the obvious bias in this data, the picture will likely look much different.

Since you disagree so strongly, let me seek clarification with and example. Are you saying that a person who didn't value sexual abstinence before college is equally likely to abstain from sex during college as a person who grew up believing in abstinence (even if they signed a promise not too)?

And would you finally conclude that if a person in the former group did not keep their commitment at the same rate as the person who always espoused those values that it had something to do with their race?

If you agree, you are the bigot. If you don't, I win.

hedgehog
Ann Arbor, MI

statistician on statistician crime!

Get your tickets

LOL!

Winglish
Lehi, UT

I think the bottom line is that the LDS athlete who wants to hide his or her transgressions knows how to hide them. They know that there is no forgiveness from the BYU Honor Code Office. The non-LDS athlete doesn't have the wherewithal to keep their sins completely confidential. The BYU campus, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, has a bunch of Pharisees who are looking for every opportunity to turn in a sinner. There are also many wonderful, non-judgemental kids. There are definitely both types.

Jim McMahon keeps getting referenced because he's a white guy who partied. He also grew up in Utah, was familiar with the culture, and knew enough to keep his mouth shut and only party with others who kept their mouth shut.

It's kind of an ironic situation that those who can most successfully circumvent the Honor Code are those who understand it the best. I think that puts a greater responsibility on the LDS athlete and coach to help their non-LDS brethren to be found only in holy places. Don't you?

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@okc ute and duh

Can you show me where I referenced utah fans or ute supporters as a whole? No I specifically said the "ute trolls that are always on these blogs" which is a very specific set of individuals such as hedgehog for instance.

I'm perfectly aware there are plenty of utah fans that are LDS, are decent people, are not haters, etc. I know and associate with many.

I called out a select few that have posted in this very article and who do so daily and always criticize BYU, lie about BYU, or agree with something like this obvious hit peice that tries to paint BYU in a bad light.

So if you are not one of those individuals you do not need to take that mantle onto yourself nor do you need to try and prove something that I never even asserted.

Reading comprehension is vital.

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