Comments about ‘LDS World: Bible, scripture study to avoid deception’

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Published: Sunday, April 10 2011 4:00 a.m. MDT

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Mormoncowboy
Provo, Ut

The story of Korihor presents the problems that religious thinkers have in defending their positions. Conveniently The Book of Mormon, in these instances (Alma 30) presents its defense as a binary argument on God (Paschals Wager). In response to Korihors request for evidence, Alma notes "all things denote there is a God", even the planets he says. Great! Now what if the issue was multi-variate, or in other words - sectarian. What would Alma's response have been to "which of all these Church's are true", and how can any one of them prove it?

Yes, in the "story" Alma is able to pronounce a punishment and Korihor is made aware - yet then the story get's real puzzling. Korihor admits that he was decieved by Satan, posing as an angel of light, into to preaching against God? Perhaps seeing an angel should have been clue for Korihor? It seems rather illogical as a "true" story.

Another startling lesson is the undertones against religious tolerance. The chapter speaks quite negatively of the Nephites who had no laws against belief. They are contrasted against the wiser Lamanites who quickly arrest and try Korihor in their courts, strictly for preaching.

coleman51
Orem, UT

Very good article and well thought out. The scriptures should indeed be the foundation of truth when one is enlightened by the Holy Ghost. One will avoid deception if one subscribes to what the article is trying to convey.

Thinkman
Provo, UT

The LDS church leaders, both local and general teach its members to study the Bible and other LDS scriptures so that the members will have reinforced in their minds that the scriptures are "true" and that the church is "true."

I have found after studying them very sincerely and for many years and even "teaching" from them that I have actually been deceived into believing the LDS church is "true." If you continually study, read and "testify" of the scriptures and not look with a critical eye at the validity of the claims of the LDS church and it's claimed divinity, then you will likely continue to be deceived into believing the Book of Mormon is "scripture" and not a work of fiction. If you instead use your mind and question the claims of "truth" by Joseph Smith, Thomas Monson, et.al., and be honestly open to the possibility that it is all a lie, then may find out that the LDS church isn't God's "true" church.

I'm not a child of hell or a fallen angel but instead someone who chooses to think rather than just bow my head and say yes.

seeingblind
Spanish Fork, UT

The doctrine of original sin is clearly rejected in Christs church.

Thinkman, I'm glad you're a thinker and encouraging Mormons to think for themselves about how unsound the claims of Joseph Smith are.

Psalm 58: 3 "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."

Psalm 51: 5 "Behold, I was shapened in iniquity: and in sin did my mother conceive me."

Both of these verses clearly state we are sinners before we were born and continue that life style the moment we leave the womb. Now either Christ's church believes the Holy Bible like Christ did or it is not Christ's church.

Coleman51 writes: "The scriptures should indeed be the foundation of truth when one is enlightened by the Holy Ghost." Well, it can only be, but which scriptures? Jesus quoted the Psalms and we can be absolutely sure they are correct as His words and He said they'd not pass away and that He'd preserve them (Psalm 12: 7) until all be fulfilled.

Solution: Romans 4: 8 "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." Psalm 32: 2

sharrona
layton, Ut

Thinkman, Bible,scripture study(Greek) to avoid deception.
The Love chapter, 1 Corinthians 13, Examples, Charity(love)never fails(1Cor 13:8) or Faith hope and charity(love)(1 Corinthians 13:13). The Greek word agape is often translated "love" in the New Testament. How is "agape love" different from other types of love? The essence of agape love is self-sacrifice. Unlike our English word love, agape is not used in the Bible to refer to romantic or sexual love. Nor does it refer to close friendship or brotherly love, for which the Greek word philia is used. Nor does agape mean charity, a term which the King James translators carried over from the Latin. Agape love is unique and is distinguished by its nature and character. Agape is love which is of and from God, whose very nature is love itself.

seeingblind
Spanish Fork, UT

sharrona, I know of a preacher who claimed you must have four years of college level Greek studies before you can adequately understand the Holy Bible. I'm not convinced that's true, but it certainly helps and especially the verb tenses, whereby we can know with certainty that we are saved and garranteed.

The point of this article is that scripture, Scripture itself is the only sure foundation for faith and salvation, BUT the problem with the article is that it doesn't separate out all false scripture, so we are insisting that Scripture means only the Holy Bible. Are you with me?

Cephas
The Wilds of, NH

I came from a background where I had never heard of Joseph Smith or the Book of Mormon. My automatic presumption was certainly not that the Book of Mormon was true, that Joseph was a prophet, or that the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ could be found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I looked at everything critically and several times. I read everything I could about it. My conclusion (and that of many other converts like myself) after decades of study and prayer?

Joseph experienced what he claimed, the scriptures he received are true, and the keys he was given reside now with Thomas Monson..

Reference Charity. Moroni 7:47 says it best. "But charity is the pure love of Christ, and it endureth forever; and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him."

seeingblind
Spanish Fork, UT

Cephas, please think, man, think. Haven't you read 1 Corinthians 15: 46 "Howbeit, that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual." Your church doctrine teaches a pre- existence of spiritual elements while the Holy Bible declares first comes the natural physical universe and afterwards comes the spiritual. So who are you going to believe: the Holy Bible (God's word) or your "prophets?"

Serenity
Manti, UT

Seeingblind: Paul writes "as in Adam all have sinned, so in Christ all shall be made alive" 1 Corinthians 15:22. You are quoting Psalms from the Old Testament, which was written before the Atonement of the Savior Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead, thus purchasing us through His sacrifice. Prior to that, we were all alienated from God. Mankind was without hope. Through the sacrifice of the Holy One of Israel, the only begotten Son of God, we are no longer in the state of sinfulness at birth. This was a state of not having any recourse to God because of Adams transgression. Through Christ we can attain eternal life by being obedient to the laws and ordinances of His Gospel. Adam's sin, or original sin, has been taken away through the shedding of blood of our Savior. Thus man can again approach God and be held accountable only for his own sins, but not for Adams disobedience to God. That quote from Romans was talking about men's sins, not Adams'. That's where repentence comes in. You are blessed if you truly repent, God will forgive you.

Cephas
The Wilds of, NH

And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

The disciples believed that a man could have acted (for good or for bad) prior to life on earth. Jesus did not challenge that belief. Only that this was not the cause of this man's blindness.

higv
Dietrich, ID

I knew people that called commercials just to bash the missionaries. Thing is they tell missionaries they beleive things they never heard of. The Lord will go through proper channels to get his point across not enemeis of the faith.

sharrona
layton, Ut

Cephas,The disciples believed that a man could have acted (for good or for bad) prior to life on earth."
The Rabbis falsely taught that the soul sinned in a pre-existent state. They also held that a terrible punishment came some people from the sin of their parents. Jesus plainly contradicts these beliefs in(John 9:3).

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.(Mt 16:17 KJV) God is Spirit (John 4:24).

Moroni 7:47 . "But charity(love)is the pure love of Christ . Makes no sense in the original Greek. Charity, mid-12c.,benevolence for the poor," caritas from the Latin Vulgate often used as translation of Greek, agape "love". Charity is the Latin translation of agape(love).

seeingblind
Spanish Fork, UT

Serenity wrote: "we can attain eternal life by being obedient" My dear Serenity, have you kept ALL the laws and ordinances of His Gospel, because that is what is required by the statement in Galatains 3: 10 "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." Now you may well say that refers to the Law God gave by Moses, but as sharrona would be quick to go to the Greek, so the next verse does NOT have "the" before "law" therefore meaning any kind of list of rules and ends with "The just shall live by faith." Meaning those who have been justified by faith, and I might emphasize: faith alone, continue their living by faith (believing) which is obeying the Gospel (2 Thessalonians 1: 8). Dear Serenity, being a just one comes by God counting you righteous simply because you believe: see Romans 4: 3 quote of Genesis 15: 6. How righteous? "that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5: 21 "Him" is Christ. Once you get "in Him" you get God's (Jesus') righteousness written on your account.

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

First to Mormoncowboy: Korihor was an antichrist. Secondly, he never went amoung the Lamanites. He tried first amoung the Nephites and obtained some followers. When he went amoung the people of Ammon who were quite a bit wiser in the teachings of Christ and followed them he could gain no foothold. They then took him before Alma who challenged him at every point. Korihor does the same as many do today and demand a sign. The sign is given as he is struck dumb. In the end he is killed because of his condition. All Alma did is to testify of the things of Christ as taught by the brass plates taken from Laban and the revelations received through Nephi and others. Again you look at what man sees not what is revealed by the Lord.

To the others: Adam was given to commandments in the Garden of Eden, to multiply and replenish the Earth; not to partake of the tree of Good and Evil. He couldn't do one with disobeying the other. Upon partaking of the tree of Good and Evil, life changed from immortality to mortality. Death entered the world at that time. Sin came with it.

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

The problem with many of you is that you feel all your sins are forgiven for just taking Christ name upon you. Really, then when do you repent. When does the atonement take place in you? One must be baptized by one with authority to be able to even have a chance of entering into the kingdom. If anyone could have done the Baptism Christ wouldn't have had to go to John the Baptist.

Sin came into the world at the time of the fall of Adam. Before that we were all spirit children of our Heavenly Father. We kept our first estate by accepting our Father's plan. We keep our second by keeping and obeying his commandments. From the time of Adam until today, Father has spoken only through his prophets. Many of you cite the greek translation but with any translation there are faults and misconceptions. There are many who have taken the King James and versed it against some of the Greek and found the King James translation to be more correct. Joseph Smith did a translation of the Bible strickly by revelation. In many ways his translation has been called more correct than Greek.

Jeff
Temple City, CA

I must say that I am intrigued by the irony in "Mormoncowboy's" post. The writer seems to be using a text he doesn't believe in to prove...what? That the Book of Mormon is false? That we shouldn't study the scriptures as Frederickson suggests? Or is he just pointing out that The Book of Mormon has some things he doesn't like?

I am also intrigued by Calvinists who want Latter-day Saints to stop being Latter-day Saints and start being Calvinists. We accept Calvinists as Christians, and since we agree with them that Christ is the Son of God and the Author of our salvation, we join with them in being Christians. That does not, however, mean that we need to join them in their brand of Christianity.

Finally, I anm intrigued by the accusation that the only people who are Latter-day Saints are people that don't know anything of the Church's history or people who don't think for themselves. I might recommend to those who think something like this that they get to know more Latter-day Saints. They've been misled by an inadequate sample.

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