I must say that I am intrigued by the irony in "Mormoncowboy's" post.
The writer seems to be using a text he doesn't believe in to prove...what? That
the Book of Mormon is false? That we shouldn't study the scriptures as
Frederickson suggests? Or is he just pointing out that The Book of Mormon has
some things he doesn't like? I am also intrigued by Calvinists who
want Latter-day Saints to stop being Latter-day Saints and start being
Calvinists. We accept Calvinists as Christians, and since we agree with them
that Christ is the Son of God and the Author of our salvation, we join with them
in being Christians. That does not, however, mean that we need to join them in
their brand of Christianity.Finally, I anm intrigued by the
accusation that the only people who are Latter-day Saints are people that don't
know anything of the Church's history or people who don't think for themselves.
I might recommend to those who think something like this that they get to know
more Latter-day Saints. They've been misled by an inadequate sample.
The problem with many of you is that you feel all your sins are forgiven for
just taking Christ name upon you. Really, then when do you repent. When does
the atonement take place in you? One must be baptized by one with authority to
be able to even have a chance of entering into the kingdom. If anyone could
have done the Baptism Christ wouldn't have had to go to John the Baptist.Sin came into the world at the time of the fall of Adam. Before that we
were all spirit children of our Heavenly Father. We kept our first estate by
accepting our Father's plan. We keep our second by keeping and obeying his
commandments. From the time of Adam until today, Father has spoken only through
his prophets. Many of you cite the greek translation but with any translation
there are faults and misconceptions. There are many who have taken the King
James and versed it against some of the Greek and found the King James
translation to be more correct. Joseph Smith did a translation of the Bible
strickly by revelation. In many ways his translation has been called more
correct than Greek.
First to Mormoncowboy: Korihor was an antichrist. Secondly, he never went
amoung the Lamanites. He tried first amoung the Nephites and obtained some
followers. When he went amoung the people of Ammon who were quite a bit wiser
in the teachings of Christ and followed them he could gain no foothold. They
then took him before Alma who challenged him at every point. Korihor does the
same as many do today and demand a sign. The sign is given as he is struck
dumb. In the end he is killed because of his condition. All Alma did is to
testify of the things of Christ as taught by the brass plates taken from Laban
and the revelations received through Nephi and others. Again you look at what
man sees not what is revealed by the Lord. To the others: Adam was
given to commandments in the Garden of Eden, to multiply and replenish the
Earth; not to partake of the tree of Good and Evil. He couldn't do one with
disobeying the other. Upon partaking of the tree of Good and Evil, life changed
from immortality to mortality. Death entered the world at that time. Sin came
Serenity wrote: "we can attain eternal life by being obedient" My dear
Serenity, have you kept ALL the laws and ordinances of His Gospel, because that
is what is required by the statement in Galatains 3: 10 "Cursed is every
one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law
to do them." Now you may well say that refers to the Law God gave by Moses,
but as sharrona would be quick to go to the Greek, so the next verse does NOT
have "the" before "law" therefore meaning any kind of list
of rules and ends with "The just shall live by faith." Meaning those
who have been justified by faith, and I might emphasize: faith alone, continue
their living by faith (believing) which is obeying the Gospel (2 Thessalonians
1: 8). Dear Serenity, being a just one comes by God counting you righteous
simply because you believe: see Romans 4: 3 quote of Genesis 15: 6. How
righteous? "that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2
Corinthians 5: 21 "Him" is Christ. Once you get "in Him" you
get God's (Jesus') righteousness written on your account.
Cephas,The disciples believed that a man could have acted (for good or for bad)
prior to life on earth."The Rabbis falsely taught that the soul
sinned in a pre-existent state. They also held that a terrible punishment came
some people from the sin of their parents. Jesus plainly contradicts these
beliefs in(John 9:3).And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed
art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but
my Father which is in heaven.(Mt 16:17 KJV) God is Spirit (John 4:24).Moroni 7:47 . "But charity(love)is the pure love of Christ . Makes no
sense in the original Greek. Charity, mid-12c.,benevolence for the poor,"
caritas from the Latin Vulgate often used as translation of Greek, agape
"love". Charity is the Latin translation of agape(love).
I knew people that called commercials just to bash the missionaries. Thing is
they tell missionaries they beleive things they never heard of. The Lord will
go through proper channels to get his point across not enemeis of the faith.
And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his
parents, that he was born blind?Jesus answered, Neither hath this
man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest
in him.The disciples believed that a man could have acted (for good
or for bad) prior to life on earth. Jesus did not challenge that belief. Only
that this was not the cause of this man's blindness.
Seeingblind: Paul writes "as in Adam all have sinned, so in Christ all
shall be made alive" 1 Corinthians 15:22. You are quoting Psalms from the
Old Testament, which was written before the Atonement of the Savior Jesus
Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead, thus purchasing us through His
sacrifice. Prior to that, we were all alienated from God. Mankind was without
hope. Through the sacrifice of the Holy One of Israel, the only begotten Son of
God, we are no longer in the state of sinfulness at birth. This was a state of
not having any recourse to God because of Adams transgression. Through Christ
we can attain eternal life by being obedient to the laws and ordinances of His
Gospel. Adam's sin, or original sin, has been taken away through the shedding
of blood of our Savior. Thus man can again approach God and be held accountable
only for his own sins, but not for Adams disobedience to God. That quote from
Romans was talking about men's sins, not Adams'. That's where repentence comes
in. You are blessed if you truly repent, God will forgive you.
Cephas, please think, man, think. Haven't you read 1 Corinthians 15: 46
"Howbeit, that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural;
and afterward that which is spiritual." Your church doctrine teaches a pre-
existence of spiritual elements while the Holy Bible declares first comes the
natural physical universe and afterwards comes the spiritual. So who are you
going to believe: the Holy Bible (God's word) or your "prophets?"
I came from a background where I had never heard of Joseph Smith or the Book of
Mormon. My automatic presumption was certainly not that the Book of Mormon was
true, that Joseph was a prophet, or that the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ
could be found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.I
looked at everything critically and several times. I read everything I could
about it. My conclusion (and that of many other converts like myself) after
decades of study and prayer?Joseph experienced what he claimed, the
scriptures he received are true, and the keys he was given reside now with
Thomas Monson..Reference Charity. Moroni 7:47 says it best.
"But charity is the pure love of Christ, and it endureth forever; and whoso
is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him."
sharrona, I know of a preacher who claimed you must have four years of college
level Greek studies before you can adequately understand the Holy Bible. I'm not
convinced that's true, but it certainly helps and especially the verb tenses,
whereby we can know with certainty that we are saved and garranteed.The point of this article is that scripture, Scripture itself is the only sure
foundation for faith and salvation, BUT the problem with the article is that it
doesn't separate out all false scripture, so we are insisting that Scripture
means only the Holy Bible. Are you with me?
Thinkman, Bible,scripture study(Greek) to avoid deception.The Love
chapter, 1 Corinthians 13, Examples, Charity(love)never fails(1Cor 13:8) or
Faith hope and charity(love)(1 Corinthians 13:13). The Greek word agape is often
translated "love" in the New Testament. How is "agape love"
different from other types of love? The essence of agape love is self-sacrifice.
Unlike our English word love, agape is not used in the Bible to refer to
romantic or sexual love. Nor does it refer to close friendship or brotherly
love, for which the Greek word philia is used. Nor does agape mean charity, a
term which the King James translators carried over from the Latin. Agape love is
unique and is distinguished by its nature and character. Agape is love which is
of and from God, whose very nature is love itself.
The doctrine of original sin is clearly rejected in Christs church.Thinkman, I'm glad you're a thinker and encouraging Mormons to think for
themselves about how unsound the claims of Joseph Smith are.Psalm
58: 3 "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as
they be born, speaking lies."Psalm 51: 5 "Behold, I was
shapened in iniquity: and in sin did my mother conceive me."Both of these verses clearly state we are sinners before we were born and
continue that life style the moment we leave the womb. Now either Christ's
church believes the Holy Bible like Christ did or it is not Christ's church.Coleman51 writes: "The scriptures should indeed be the foundation
of truth when one is enlightened by the Holy Ghost." Well, it can only be,
but which scriptures? Jesus quoted the Psalms and we can be absolutely sure they
are correct as His words and He said they'd not pass away and that He'd preserve
them (Psalm 12: 7) until all be fulfilled.Solution: Romans 4: 8
"Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." Psalm 32: 2
The LDS church leaders, both local and general teach its members to study the
Bible and other LDS scriptures so that the members will have reinforced in their
minds that the scriptures are "true" and that the church is
"true." I have found after studying them very sincerely
and for many years and even "teaching" from them that I have actually
been deceived into believing the LDS church is "true." If you
continually study, read and "testify" of the scriptures and not look
with a critical eye at the validity of the claims of the LDS church and it's
claimed divinity, then you will likely continue to be deceived into believing
the Book of Mormon is "scripture" and not a work of fiction. If you
instead use your mind and question the claims of "truth" by Joseph
Smith, Thomas Monson, et.al., and be honestly open to the possibility that it is
all a lie, then may find out that the LDS church isn't God's "true"
church.I'm not a child of hell or a fallen angel but instead someone
who chooses to think rather than just bow my head and say yes.
Very good article and well thought out. The scriptures should indeed be the
foundation of truth when one is enlightened by the Holy Ghost. One will avoid
deception if one subscribes to what the article is trying to convey.
The story of Korihor presents the problems that religious thinkers have in
defending their positions. Conveniently The Book of Mormon, in these instances
(Alma 30) presents its defense as a binary argument on God (Paschals Wager). In
response to Korihors request for evidence, Alma notes "all things denote
there is a God", even the planets he says. Great! Now what if the issue was
multi-variate, or in other words - sectarian. What would Alma's response have
been to "which of all these Church's are true", and how can any one of
them prove it? Yes, in the "story" Alma is able to
pronounce a punishment and Korihor is made aware - yet then the story get's real
puzzling. Korihor admits that he was decieved by Satan, posing as an angel of
light, into to preaching against God? Perhaps seeing an angel should have been
clue for Korihor? It seems rather illogical as a "true" story.Another startling lesson is the undertones against religious tolerance.
The chapter speaks quite negatively of the Nephites who had no laws against
belief. They are contrasted against the wiser Lamanites who quickly arrest and
try Korihor in their courts, strictly for preaching.