Comments about ‘Utah rally advances 'We Are One' events supporting labor and civil rights on Monday’

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Published: Saturday, April 2 2011 11:49 p.m. MDT

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Where's Stockton ???
Bowling Green, OH

Carpenter's Local 1138 Toledo Ohio....we're with you as well...Now Everyone go to Walmart...get a cart...pull all that cheaply made Chinese stuff off the shelf and let them know that we want our American Companies back here on our own soil and their store filled with American made products manufactured by American citizens here in our own communities. Fill them carts and leave everyone of them at the cash registers. Keep doing it til they either get the message or close their doors. This is where we have to start if we are ever going to get our country back. Right now the Chinese own us and Walmart is the bigest single reason as to why.
United we Stand

CougarClassic
Orem, UT

I hope the d-news will allow my comment: I am a employee who is being harassed, hassled and forced to work with a boss who is bullying me because I would not go out on a date.

The problem is I have no real proof, save my word only and accusations always need to be documented and witnessed. I have a witness, but she is afraid to come forth and lose her job as well.

Can the Union help me?

Rifleman
Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Where's Stockton ??? | 8:07 p.m. April 2, 2011

Your suggestion just won't work here in Utah. We have the right to chose whether or not we want to belong to a union and have them take dues out of our paychecks.

English is a second language for Walmart's biggest customers in our community and they do their shopping where prices are competitive.

What in Tucket?
Provo, UT

Unions are dinosaurs. There are plenty of protective labor laws. Public unions yep we want to break them. They have a strangle hold on state legislatures and Congress. Democrats do not want to give up their bribes. The poor tax payer is being strangled by public unions. I don't object to fair pay, but an average $130,000 a year for Federal employees is fair?

El Chango Supremo
Rexburg, ID

Not sure why public employees need to be unionized...

Ryan20
Provo, UT

If you think labor unions contribute anything positive to society, you need to take an introductory economics course. Unions purposefully create labor market inefficiencies by driving up wages beyond their natural equilibrium. When firms, or state governments, are forced to pay more per worker, they hire fewer workers, driving up unemployment. This isn't my opinion, it's an economic law. If you look at unemployment rates and unionization rates between countries, the correlation is stunning. Despite the AFL-CIO's hand wringing about state governments slashing middle-class wages, its very existence has helped prolong every recession in the United States since its founding.

Moreover, artificially driving up wages in the public sector doesn't actually help most middle class families, it increases their taxes; not everyone can suckle at the government utter. In every other industry, wage increases are tied to productivity gains, giving workers incentives to get more education, specialized skills, and become more efficient. None of those productive force are operative in heavily unionized state governments. The result is a bloated, ineffective state, and the creation of a permanent special interest that will fight tooth and nail to keep things that way.

Lone Star Cougar
Plano, TX

Right to work states are growing at twice the rate as states that make the worker forced to belong to a union. Those union states are suffering badly while right to work states are getting along much better. Unions were once needed but not anymore. Unions are corrupt and many times tied up with organized crime. They also force their members to donate to political parties that the union member may not want to donate. You want to kill jobs and companies? Unionize it!

DN Subscriber
Cottonwood Heights, UT

So, all the usual left wing suspects showed up again, with their customary demands that taxpayers fork over more money and that union workers should be immune from the laws of economics.

This is merely part of a carefully orchestrated national campaign trying to defy the reality that governments at all levels are broke, and that greedy unions have played a major role in driving costs up past productivity. Taxpayers can no longer afford to waste money on union demands, and they need to accept that.

No public employee should be allowed to be in a union. None!

SLars
Provo, UT

The union lost my support when they supported amnesty and stopped protecting American jobs. The union's played a vital part in getting the immigration laws enforced, and being the watchdogs of bad business until the 1980's. That's when it fell apart.

CHS 85
Sandy, UT

@What in Tucket?

Whose study are you using to determine that federal workers AVERAGE $130K per year?

I am a federal employee earning way above average, and my salary is $80,276 per year (GS-12, step 6). I also do highly technical work that should earn above minimum wage.

I guess if you take the top salary and averge it with the bottom salary, you could come up with that amount. Kinda like a large multi-national corporation where the preseident earns $20,000,000 per year, and the guy sweeping the floor earns $18,000 per year. The average salary in that company would be over $10,000,000 per year.

Is that how you came up with your conclusion, or was it from the oh-so-impartial Heritage Foundation?

Oh, and I also belong to a union - a union with NO bargaining power and isn't tied to organized crime. That's my right and my money to contribute as I see fit.

Johnadams1776
Provo, UT

It is so interesting to see the hypocritical unions say that they are merely standing up to big corporation donations to political campaigns. In reality, unions far outspend corporate and personal donations to political candidates, particularly Dems. It is no wonder the unions are worried because the writing is in plain sight and it doesn't look good for these fools unions who have the mistaken belief that they merit treatment higher than a private sector employee.

ER in EUR
Belgrade, Serbia

To "What in Tucket?"

You quote a figure that is being pushed around, but is not even close to being true. Feds do not make $130K average. Not even close. A high estimate from the Bureau of Economic Analysis is around $81K.

Now $81K is pretty good, right?

That averages all workers even SanFran, NYC, DC and other high cost locales.

The average Fed vs. avg US worker are made up of different peoples. The fed is predominately more white-collar, more educated and of a higher age (higher pay for more experience).

Lower-skilled jobs are contracted out, thus skewing the average. Blue collar jobs make up only 9.9% of the direct-hire USG workforce.

Now competition for these higher educated, older (those focused on retirement) and more skilled and management focused workers can be fierce. Here is where the workers' wages diverge. The pay for these workers, these specific workers is lower in the USG (apples to apples), so the USG gives them better benefits. So the comparison should not be to the average private worker, but against their apples to apples counterparts in Private. Result? Higher pay than avg private, lower than similar in private industry.

ER in EUR
Belgrade, Serbia

So let's look at real life.

$81K for white collar, high educated, experienced management. AVERAGE.

In Utah we are "Rest of US" locality pay (the plan to equalize pay from higher cost locales to lower cost areas). It is 14.15% of base pay. So we are $81k / 1.1415 = $70,950.

$70K is sky high for a white collar, BA, MA, Phd holder in management in a large corp in Salt Lake? I don't think so. Above a construction worker? Yes, but they will not get the job, or be able to do it.

In San Fran its 35% locality pay scale. So the pay would be $81K X 1.35 = $109,350.

Sky high for a high educated, management person with BA, MA or Phd? no.

So please understand this is not comparing a security guard with a security guard. The real comparison is the head of security for a corp to the guy at the gate. The avg USG worker is higher paid than the avg us private worker.

For reasons that can be understood if explained rather than hidden. There is no better way to lie than to use statistics.

ER in EUR
Belgrade, Serbia

OK last comment.

Remeber the $70K high educated white-collar worker in utah? And the $109K guy in San Fran?

Well the 109K in SF is actually a cut in pay from $70K in Utah because the cost of living in SF is 74% higher so in agregate 109K in SF is $62K in SLC.

That is why USG workers hate to go to NYC, LA, SF and the like.

Is that becasue $70K or $62K is low? No, not if you are asking about a construction job there. But it is lower then thier apples to apples counterparts in those same cities.

All I'm sayin.

My2Cents
Kearns, UT

@Rifleman, you misunderstand the Right to Work laws in Utah. They do not grant or have anything to do with Unions. The state Right to Work law, if you bother to read it, is a 'shield law' for business that defines it as "Business Right to Fire" law. It's to protect businesses FROM any workers rights, its not even listed as a Utah labor law.

This Right to Work law encourages employers to fire and dismiss individuals and its entire workforce wanting better working conditions or safety standards. The right to work laws prevents employees from organizing and going to OSHA, EEO, or any federal labor department without retaliation (fired). Complaining about chemical and physical endangerment of yourself or other co-workers. You get fired for their violation of your health risks.

Workers spill their blood, lose their lives, and devote their soul to a company and deserve a share of the company. Is that really an unreasonable expectation? Some workers can't wait every christmas for that bonus check, but what happens when it stops too? Is that all your life and pain and suffering for a company is worth to you, $100 a year?

NeilT
Clearfield, UT

Proud member Amalgamated Transit Union. Utah Transit Authority offered a terrible contract, voted down 99% against. Uta made no effort to engage in collective bargaining in violation of federal labor law. The union filed a lawsuit and won. I used to vote republican until the right wing tea party took over and is taking the party down a road to ruin. At one time the CEO was compensated about 20 times more than labor. Now it is 800% more. That is a recipe for class warfare as we see happening now. You can not have true
prosperity when a few citizens control all the wealth. I for one am sick and tired of hard working public employees taking the brunt of the blame for our economic woes. To the person who made the post about federal employees earning $130,000 a year I would sure like to see your source. Started with the state of Utah in 1984 in the $6.00 range. That was with a bachelors. Left in 96 in the $14.00 range after completing a graduate level certificate. Everyone I know working in the private sector is doing far better than I am.

Where's Stockton ???
Bowling Green, OH

Meanwhile...if you watched last weeks 60 minutes Large corporations and not the middle class workers are allowed to send every penny of profit to Banks in Switzerland and avoid paying taxes to the Federal government. GE was the prime example used. They would have owed only 3.7% but they were given a tax credit over a Billion dollars and now owe the Federal government nothing. Thier earnings if that money had stayed here would have been taxed at the 35% rate. It's not employee wages that are forcing companies to move overseas. It's taking advantage of the Bush related tax cuts. Yes Uthan's have the right to chose whether to join a union or not. Being a Right to work State works for big Corporations really well. They bring a dozen doghnuts to the table...keep 11 of them and then tell the non union workers that that's their doughnut left on the table but your union friend there is going to take it away from you. You people are so gullible it isn't funny. The corps have everything to their favor...even ring side seats to watch Union-vs-nonUnion fighting.

KM
Cedar Hills, UT

"Workers of the world unite. Its not just a slogan anymore."

Isn't it great that we hired a community organizer to be President? Now we can organize revolutions throughout the world and "fundamentally transform" the way things are.

Right or Wrong
Happy Valley, Utah

Union are part of the problem with our society, aside from making a safer work place, they are corrupt and work against the national good.

One only has to look at the auto industry to see how UNIONS destroyed that segment. As was stated above, look at right to work states, there you will find the more successful option.

Down with unions, every one of them!

Where's Stockton ???
Bowling Green, OH

@LONE Star Cougar
Ahhh yes...here we go. Must live in Houston... the home of the shell game corporation scheme that has been part of the Bush tax cuts for years now. I just mentioned this briefly in a previous post to this article. the one that was on on CBS's 60 minutes last Sunday. 60 minutes went to dozens of corporatins whose World Headquarters were supposedly located in a small Swiss Banking community of 25,000 people that is home to Billions of 2010 profit dollars that will either be taxed at a much smaller % rate or pay no taxes at all. Many of these so called Corporate Headquarters only had P.O. Boxes. Some had rented office spaces in existing buildings and had only a receptionist to refer anyone looking or calling for Corporate officers to contact them...guess where...in Houston of all places...at the company's quote...Field Headqurters...unquote. There was even a group mentioned including Haliburton and it's conglomerate subsideraries which were even more creative. They bought a bunch of Luxury Condominiums and assigned one to each of their Major subsiderie. For obvious reasons they got no intervies there either.

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