If swearing got you disciplined at BYU there would be no athletes to play
basketball or football.
Foul language, especially one slip, should never cost you your job at BYU. Let's
get some higher-ups, and I mean general authorities, involved in this. I know
plenty of BYU employees, and I know plenty that have uttered foul language. I
love BYU, but some students are far, far to judgmental. They are too quick to
cast stones from inside their bubble. It's a foul word. Not a big deal. As far
as I know BYU won't do a THING if you swear once. So this is preposterous.
Shouldn't get fired for such things.
Careful, big brother is watching.
The tattletale who got him fired will surely be expecting a better spot in
heaven for doing so. And I'm sure the tattletale will also tattle on me for
There had to be something else to it...OrOh my gosh BYU,
really, I can point to professors that would have to be fired too.
This story reminds me of the one last week about the pregnant student in Logan
who felt forced to drop her class instead of risking a bad score on a test.
What on earth makes these tales of petty student grievances headline news?
DesNews, you're bigger than this, right? Or trying to be. Leave the student
grievance stories for the student newspapers.
You know, been there - done that.Not the slipping and letting a
curse word out (well, okay, that too) but had to make a tough, confidential
decision, based on a number of factors, then been criticized in public for only
part of the story with no way to answer back.Maybe he was let go for
one slip of the tongue. I'm not saying that doesn't happen at BYU. But I'm
willing to wager we're not hearing the full story. BYU can't tell it, and the
boy doesn't have to. Too bad for everyone.
I heard his interview on Doug Wright's show today....it sounded like there were
previous "coaching" or disciplinary meetings for performance and
coupled with BYU's statement; he wasn't fired just for swearing. That was simply
the last straw.
I think the person who turned the guy in for swearing should come out publicly
and say why he/she decided to be a tattle tale. So self-righteous.
even the lord for gives us we are not perfect and neither is the school
Am I reading Daily Universe? Why on Earth this story got to this Deseret News
seciton? Come on.
Since when is swearing against the honor code? I know its discouraged, but I've
never seen anything that makes it a violation of the code.
A friend once said, "When your kid comes home from school in trouble, the
first thing out of their mouth is a lie, but if you let them keep talking, the
truth comes out."Let the kid keep talking...
There is more to this story. There has to be. I once cussed at a brand new
professor while working and didn't get fired for it (the guy was in the wrong,
but I should have showed better judgment). I just can't believe that somebody
would be fired for this one offense. Bosses usually will go out of their way to
keep people who are good workers.
Funny how many naive commenters there are on here who actually believe the
student was fired for a single swear word and nothing else. Some of you must
lay awake at nights waiting to pounce on any article that suggests (with or
without any facts) that BYU might have wronged yet another student. Get a life
people. Isn't there a "Jimmer is a ball hog" or "BYU will be one
and done - 'mark it down'" or "Utah's basketball program has a bright
future" fantasy bandwagon article you can go jump on with your silly
display of ignorance? Not that a lot of you haven't done that already today.
I guess that means there won't be a J Golden Kimball building erected any time
Get kicked out for having a normal girlfriend. Get fired for swearing.Hey, there's a kid without a part in his hair! Get him!
It's ironic how quick to judge people are about being too quick to judge. We
don't know the whole story as to why he got fired.
How is this a sports article?!
Kind of funny really. I recall a good saint cussing when the enemy almost
killed him in neat little battle. I guess we should have kicked him out of the
unit. Straightened that boy up.How utterly silly. My goodness.I once told my son that he was allowed really swear if he saw a car full
of nuns go off a cliff. That was enough grief to cry out. If there was no car
full of nuns, then don't cuss. Save it for the horrible things.
I am afraid we are becoming a church full of Pharisees.
@Say No to BO: There is a J Golden Kimball building--it's in Wymount (married
student housing). Not a joke.
Silly me, I thought a church was a hospital for sinners, not a museum of the
perfected. If those who swore or had impure thoughts were dismissed from BYU, or
a ward filled with temple workers, the pews and classrooms would be empty. "All have sinner and fallen short of the glory" Rom 12.
My point - if there are BYU students writing in condemning kids for swearing,
they need to really stop. We have plenty of students at BYU who are struggling
and/or striving to be better people. My main issue is with kids writing in and
sitting on their high horse, saying that someone who was hypothetically fired
for foul language had it coming. I worked in a BYU office for a year, and with
probably over 200 individual student volunteers, and I gotta say, some students
haven't seen much of what another university is like. And while I love BYU and
its student body, they need to be careful in their accusations. We're all trying
to do our best here. And a few curse words won't break your ears. Not that foul
language should be encouraged, but it is common in the world around us, even in
Utah, and learning to deal with it without getting offended is probably a safe
BYU spokesman: "I can say the account being given is inaccurate and
incomplete."As is the case in most people being fired, there's
usually a lot more to the story than one minor breach of "company"
policy.Sure, he might have been late to work on the day he was
fired, but that wasn't the primary reason he was fired.Sure, he
might have been heard swearing on the day he was fired, but that wasn't the
primary reason he was fired.I'll bet if you talked to his
co-workers, you'd find out there were numerous other issues. Swearing on the job
was simply the tipping point.
As has already been pointed out, there is more to this story than meets the eye.
You have to be incredibly stupid or naïve to think a good worker would be
let go because of a slip of the tongue (even at BYU). You can pick out the BYU
haters and rationalists by their inane comments. None of us is
aware of the entire truth, so we can judge neither the boy, the university, nor
the person who overheard the offensive remark. Let it be.
Lol @Gentile. I like your kid-raising style.To me, this isn't about
the practicality of the honor code, it's about (1) a terrifically terrible act
of judgment on the behalf of the management that decided to fire the student,
(2) a poor act of judgment on behalf of the student that felt the need to report
the behavior to management and (3) another poor act of judgment on behalf of the
student who let out the expletive. In that order too.I'm a BYU
student and I stand by the honor code, I agree with it and try my best to live
by it. But when other students, student employees and faculty members mistake
the BYU Honor Code for a code of perfection by which all must measure up to,
thats when it gets ugly. I really hope that this situation (along with the
Brandon Davies situation) can help all of us at BYU to use the Honor Code
constructively, and not as a bar of perfection that all persons must live up to
or be shunned.
In My Humble Opinion I LOVE that. I'm sharing that one with my
hubby. He used to be a Juvenile Probation Officer and is now a father, so he
will definitely appreciate that as well!
BYU being BYU.If this is really so extreme why do so many people
believe it? I hope there are other reasons but they might also be fairly
benign to most people.
I personally appreciate a profanity free environment. I wouldn't fire anybody
over infrequent use of profanity. I work in the Pacific North West in a large
engineering office and a group next to me got into the habit of dropping the
F-bomb and several less offensive words. I emailed the manager and he shut it
down quickly. This behavior is unprofessional anywhere.BYU can get
a bit overzealous in enforcing the rules. Neither Orem or Provo enforced their
laws requiring bicycle licenses, but BYU did. I got a couple of warnings for
not having a license. I just started using different bike rakes so they wouldn't
put one of their locks on my bike. (I would have cut it off with bolt cutters or
a welding torch if necessary).I even heard that they gave a ticket
to a guy for walking through a stop sign. This is the kind of thing
that makes BYU look petty and foolish. These are the exceptions, not the
rule.I love and support BYU and would not want to attend college
anywhere else. BYU just is not perfect yet!
If he can apply for and get another BYU job then one incidence of swearing was
not the reason for his firing. The bigger problem is sending a
letter to the paper to make it a public issue. That is more likely to prevent
him from getting hired than a minor mistake.
I would prefer the company of one who swears than a weasel who goes behind their
fellow human beings back and tells their boss they swore and causes them to lose
Don't go off calling BYU judgemental, Devine hasn't told the full story. He's
just lashing out hoping to get public sympathy. BYU doesn't fire
people for saying "one" swear word. Come on folks, common sense here.
To quote a very famous guy, "He that is without sin among you, let him
first cast a stone...". Last time that I looked, this famous guy's name
was part of the name of the Church. The self rightous Pharisee that turned this
guy in would be better served living in Nazi Germany or Communist Russia.They need to lighten up at the Y and finally bury Ernie Wilkinson, the
father of it all. I'm totally in favor of the honor code, but I know
Bishops and Stake Presidents that would get fired from a job at the Y due to
their potty mouths. It's time to use a little disgression.
We're reading a one sided story. I worked part time at BYU for four years and
never heard of this kind of action.
If there is even one shred of truth in the story it's enough to make one want
BYU to lose every game they ever play. Come on self righteous university -
You know what I love about people in general?They all
sin..........You know what makes me laugh?People who
think their sin isn't as bad as someone else's sin and think they are better
than someone else.Bottom line acccording to Mormon Doctrine:All sin keeps you from exaltation..The employee who turned
the other one in should look in the mirror and turn himself in!!
This isn't another example of BYU's Honor Code run amok. It's an example of the
D-News not really reporting on NEWS. There's a nuclear reactor blowing up in
Japan, Civil War in Libya, wars in Afghanistan, Sudan, Ivory Coast, etc. When
Penrod et al stop telling us about stray dogs and BYU employees with bad
language, they just might sell some newspapers and educate people about what is
going on in the world. We need to demand more out of our Church-owned newspaper,
which is not just here to talk about what goes on in the Wasatch Front.
Why is this news? With so much going on in our communities and state, nation
and world, why does this get any coverage? Between swearing and other issues,
someone lost a part-time job that will make buying Top Ramen a bit tougher this
month. But we have Dads and Moms out here in the real world who have lost their
jobs for no fault of their own except they hired on to a company that simply did
not weather the financial fall-out caused by greed and dishonest business
practices on a global scale. As I'm no fan of self-righteousness (or BYU) which
sometimes seems to be a core value of the school, I still don't buy one swear
word ending this kids job there. As a prolific cusser myself, I'd suggest he
understand it is unprofessional to do so in a work setting regardless of where
it is and why. I have done it and reaped the consequences. Great learning
experience, so man up!
Mistakes and less than near "perfection" on the outside have no place.
We throw out the "sinners" at a drop of a hat. The church, and BYU,
are to help us be better, but I think things are backwards. Now we would get
mad because Jesus was hanging out with the wrong crowd. @ BobP is close when he
says "we are becoming a church full of Pharisees." Becoming? We are
@SJ BobkinsYes, you are correct. A church is a hospital for sinners.
When, however, you choose to attend or work at BYU you are required to agree to
their code of honor.BYU spokeswoman Carri Jenkins said "I can
say the account being given is inaccurate and incomplete". Could it be
possible that the fired employee didn't tell the whole story?
Gimme a break. First of all I'm not LDS. Second, the comments on this board are
all over the place either supporting the school or condemning it. No one outside
of the employee and the employer knows what the real reasons are for this
employees termination. I'm not so sure that I would condemn the school based on
the accusations of a disgruntled ex-employee. The ex-employee is probably very
embarrassed about what it was that caused him to lose his job. I also feel
comfortable in saying that he probably is a nice person that made a mistake (and
I don't think that it was about the swearing). That is unfair of me to even say
that because I don't know the real reason that he was let go.
If this kid plays any golf then his penchant for cursing is well-founded and
Having worked on Campus and having had a few run ins with people including
spervisors... I know that there definitely has to have been other previous
incidents...and more than likely worse than a kneejerk exclaimation slipping
out. They don't just run people off over a simple slip of the tongue. They
have checks and means in counceling and rating reports as well when they have
someone with a disciplinary history...which being a private institution they
also don't have to publish. Time to move on Deseret News....there's nothing out
of the ordinary here so don't go starting a witch hunt. It's all about spilt
milk...and nothing more.
I have no problem with the firing. Students at BYU are expected to be perfect;
if they are not, punishment is in order. I think he should receive several
lashings and be sent to bed without dinner. Perhaps somebody can also wash his
mouth with soap. He can then start a multi-session counseling program with the
honor code office to eliminate the evil spirits that have taken over his body.
When he is finally cleansed, he can return to live with the other perfect
students at the university.
Maybe both Frank Arnold and Roger Reid might be good sources about there being
a little more to this kid's story than he's telling. Of course in both Frank's
and Roger's cases during many a game... I'm not so sure that they were'nt
justified with a few choice words. And if LaVel Edwards didn't voice one or
two on National TV...He had to a least thought of a couple of good ones while
having a friendly chat with the zebras.Deseret News...Come on
guys... I know the next game's not until tomorrow night. But really...Is this
really something you want to chase in the meantime.???
This non story is just going to be picked up and go global and once again the
Deseret news will have made a mountain out of ....aaaaa... a grain of sand. Not
even molehill worthy. And of course BYU will once again have to endure all the
national pile on deroggatory comments. Thank goodness Devine wasn't on the
Basketball or Football team.
I can see it now... a second "Devine Mistake" at BYU... when the
national media picks up on this rediculous story. The first happened when one
of the networks did a documentary on Jim McMahon which was titled "The
Devine Mistake" in retrospect to Notre Dame's Head football coach not
wanting anything to do with McMahon when he found out Jim was blind in one eye.
If I remember right it was CBS on 60 minutes.
There probably IS more to the story. I've seen many cases where the
"reason" someone gets fired is not the reason they got fired.Having said this, it is disturbing that other students would be such
busybodies as to complain about this kid's slip up. Reminds me of that cartoon
where a BYU student is lying pummeled in a pile of rocks with the caption
"All I said was 'he who is without sin cast the first stone.'
I imagine there is more to the story than Devine reveals. However, I think this
is one aspect of LDS culture where from a young age the emphasis is mis-placed
or mis-read.Maybe as humans we just like to simplify, but for some reason
its easier to condemn for a swear word than for anger. When I was growing up I
wasnt supposed to fight with my brother and if I did my parents would get after
me, but if I swore about something then there was a bigger reaction and a
greater fear on my side. So as kids when Id hear someone swear the association
was bad person, as if our angry euphemisms are more justified than any casual
cursing (You caca -mouthed jerks!).My main point is that the principle
that should be emphasized is the higher commandment of loving ones neighbor as
ones self, not tithe their mint and anise by allowing our children to simplify
people (e.g. smoker=bad person, drinker=bad person, cusser=bad person). Kids
need to be taught understanding and empathy towards those with different
backgrounds and upbringing.
We won't hear the other side of the story because it violates employer/employee
confidentiality. I do have to say that I doubt that BYU will fire an employee
for saying a single bad word.
Flashback | 12:03 a.m. March 23, 2011 Kearns, UT "I know
Bishops and Stake Presidents that would get fired from a job at the Y due to
their potty mouths."Yes. Of course. I'm sure you do. Interesting that so many of the comments on here are just as judgmental as
they accuse the Y, or the 'fellow employee' of being, without even knowing the
full story. No rush to judgment here, eh? Methinks the scribes and pharisees are
alive and well on the DesNews comment boards.
The only ones guilty of being self righteous or judgemental are the folks on
this board condeming BYU without knowing the full story. I guarantee
this employee was not fired for one bad word. A story like this does expose the
haters though. Amazing to see how many people are anxious to find fault with
BYU, i.e. the church.
@delasalle"Students at BYU are expected to be perfect"No, students (and employees) are not expected to be perfect, but they are
expected to obey the honor code.It is interesting how many people
are ready to judge BYU based solely on the word of a disgruntled fired employee.
Is there any chance whatsoever that there is another side to the story?
There must be more to this story.
I think the moral of this story - along with other recent stories - don't
attend schools with honor codes. The honor standard abroad should be honesty and
integrity, but BYU is also concerned with an image or brand to portray. College
ought to be an experience where young adults become self-governing individuals
who learn to make wise choices. BYU is too parochial for that type of
I find it amusing seeing all of the comments condemning BYU for being too
judgmental. (irony)Rhetorical question- if you were a manager that
fired someone, would you expect the recently unemployed to give an accurate
account of why they were let go?
Of course we don't know the whole story about the firing, but hearing one swear
word out of someone's mouth and turning them in for that? Any member of the
church knows we had a Prophet who had a problem with profanity. God didn't fire
I don't think we have all the facts to the full story. But if you choose to work
for someone you have to be able to put up with their rules. (However strange or
unforgiving they may be)How hard could it be to find a job like this one? My
advise time to move on and find a better job.
What people need to remember is this. How many times have you listened to
someone that was fired tell his/her story and only got half of the details. I
would bet that 90% of the time you get the story that portrays the fired as
getting the raw end of the deal from the employer. I know people who were fired
from my place of employment who told common acquaintances a completely different
story from what I knew personally. I know of one person that said he got fired
because his manager didn't like him. But in reality, he got fired because he
didn't know how do things that he should have, he lied on his resume, and he was
always napping on the job.So don't always believe everything a fired
person tells you.
When I was attending broadcast school in the military there was a rule. One
expletive in the studio and you were gone. Even if the microphones were off.
That was back in 1971 when a station could get its license yanked if a listener
heard an expletive on the air. Of course it's different today, though I would
imagine in this small community I live and work in (yup I am still in radio) an
expletive undeleted could get you booted out the door.
I think DesNews just posts these stories (pointless, one-sided stories such as
this one and yesterday's speculation piece of where Rose would stay) just to get
comments. Why else would they post this article on the BYU sports
board? Was this kid an athlete? Did he work for the athletic department? Nope.
They just know that folks who love and hate the University read and comment on
those boards. This seems like some pathetic (and sadly effective)
bid to get people talking about what they read in the Des. Silly. Why don't they
just start a rumor mill/gossip column and get it over with?
BYU follows the employment-at-will doctrine -- a morally bankrupt doctrine that
pales in comparison with the "just cause" rule.Rather than
firing the guy, why not help him? The answer: the BWC rule.What
does BWC mean? Because We Can.
Where's Paul Harvey when you need him?
Almost everyone at college has had or does have issues on and off with swearing.
If the kid hurt himself by accident and swore forgive him if he isn't doing it
consistently their really shouldn't be a problem swearing all the time is one
thing but swearing when you get hurt it happens. That's my take.
Mormoncowboy | 9:30 a.m. March 23, 2011 Provo, Ut - "don't attend
schools with honor codes" "College ought to be an experience where
young adults become self-governing individuals who learn to make wise
choices"By your reasoning, it certainly rules out the military
academies, doesn't it? They have stringent honor codes, and no one,
to my recollection, has ever questioned the integrity of such code when they
have kicked someone out of school (with NO chance of getting back in) for an
honor code violation. The Cadet Honor Code at West Point is defined as "A
cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do." The Honor Code
expresses four succinct prohibitions. On a behavioral level, the Code represents
a simple standard for all cadets. On a developmental plane, West Point expects
that all cadets will strive to live far above the minimum standard of behavior
and develop a commitment to ethical principles guiding moral actions. While the
expectations of the BYU Honor Code are more exacting, the behavioral and
developmental aspects are much the same.
why is it always BYU that has to "lighten up".? How about student
responsibility. It is not the school's fault. There is probably more to the
story. Maybe he is late, incompetent,rude or anything else.
Trying to claim there is some 'other, mysterious and as yet unconfirmed' reason
for this termination is silly. If the 'moral standards' of BYU are
SO high, than stand by them! Lying about it does not make you moral.
The worst part of it is the comments on the article at the Daily Universe or
whatever the BYU paper is called. "You signed up for the honor code"
and "you'll be forgiven eventually" wow. And they wonder
why people don't like them. My bet is that the Dnews won't publish
I guess they should have fired J. Golden Kimball for his language too. Wow I
thought I had heard of everything. I guess not.
Who cares if BYU fired somebody for something that was the
"tipping-point" OR, the "only point"? There are plenty of
people at BYU as students and employees that have suffered at the hands of
tattle-tales and self-anointed Saducees. Tattling should be part of the Honor
Code as well. The difference between the four main "Cadet Honor Codes"
and the BYU honor code, is that our military cadets are expected to have the
moral courage to "self-report". At BYU, they have to depend on
tattlers. That's a huge difference,encouraging tattling, is morally
reprehensible. Seems the "culture" has infected a once great academic
institution, and that is a shame.
Only at BYU!
There has to be more to the story................
After 30 years in managment (all outside UT I might add...) - you can be sure
you're never hearing the full story when something like this is given by the
dismissed as a reason for dismissal from employment. There's a bigger story.
That may have been the last straw... btw, you can be fired almost anywhere for
cursing in the workplace, and you don't need to be warned either.
@PaganBYU expects students and employees to obey their honor code as
any unshaven student with a beard who was turned away from taking an exam will
tell you.NO one is forced to work or attend BYU and it is refreshing
so see an institution that expects their people to follow the rules.
While our four Military Academies do have their Honor Code, the main difference,
is that our military cadets are expected to self-report Honor Code violations.
At the school in this article, there IS a huge reliance of self-appointed
tattle-tales, to regulate the schools reputation. BYU in Provo seems to have a
penchant for wanting to provide a reputation that belies reality in terms of
student behavior. We as parents, can't even get a viable reporting of crimes on
campus from the school, not to worry, we choose to not support the Provo
location at all for a variety of reasons. They sure beat a path to our door for
contributions though, relentlessly.
There is no way that anyone actually believes that the student got fired for
saying one swear word. I work for BYU and sometimes people let them slip. Never
has anyone that I know of been fired for that. He obviously wasn't a great
employee so they used his swearing (probably happened more than once) as an
excuse to get rid of him. It was a smart move by his supervisor.
Come on! This is so ridiculous that BYU would fire someone over swearing! I
think everyone wants to sensationalize BYU's honor code saying that it takes
things too far and it's way too over the top in it's enforcement.The
fact is this kid did more than just swear. I feel they were looking for an
excuse to fire him due to other issues, whatever they could be. I would like to
ask, Was he lazy? Late to work habitually? Harassed other workers? Dressed
inappropriately? Obnoxious? This kid obviously thinks the only thing he did
wrong was swear, but I would bet that's not the case.How often do we
live in our own reality? I think this guy needs a wake up call and I wish he
would have humbled himself, looked at the situation, sat down and had a candid
talk with his former boss. Then and only then would he get the real truth. I would like to see a follow up story about the real reason why he was
If you disruptive in the work place you deserve to be fired.
Let's all jump on this kids bandwagon! NOT. He can say what ever he wants and
BYU is held to privacy laws. . . be reallistic, he diden't get fired just for
swearing there is a whole lot more to this story. He seems to be liking the
Reading these comments, I get the distinct feeling I could say anything at all
against BYU -- I could make up whatever offended accusation I wanted because of
some personal failure, and write it up and send it to some editor -- and Deseret
News would blaze it across the land, with the hyper-sensitive flocking to BYU's
defense for its role my invented scenario, and the shrunken-hearted buzzing
around like flies, condemning BYU for a hypocrisy that never happened.Anybody who doesn't see right through the retaliatory mood of that poor
employee has been let down by our educational system.
More students apply to BYU than any college in the country. Must be something
appealing about the school. People who keep finding fault, go somewhere else.
You don't need to post daily complaints. It's a free country.
'...with the hyper-sensitive flocking to BYU's defense for its role my invented
scenario, and the shrunken-hearted buzzing around like flies, condemning BYU for
a hypocrisy that never happened.' - agkcrbs | 2:40 p.m. And if your
wrong? If BYU DID fire this man for swearing? What
then? You would have to apologize to all those 'shrunken-hearted.'
I'm not saying he, or BYU did, or did NOT do anthing wrong. The picture, is incomplete. Yes, BYU has to adhere to
privacy laws. But the fact that they cannot, or will not give out
the 'other details' of this situation... does not mean anything.
That they are right, or wrong. Since a BYU student was also
sidelined for having relations outside of marriage though... this
would fit in line with those 'high standards.' And give people more
reason to look elswhere for college. FYI, the Deseret News is owned
by the same group that owns BYU. So claims of the 'lame stream media' using an
'agenda' here are kind of moot.
worf said: "More students apply to BYU than any college in the country.
Must be something appealing about the school. People who keep finding fault, go
somewhere else. You don't need to post daily complaints. It's a free
country."============Uhhh... that's not true at all. More
students apply to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Berkeley and a hundred other schools
than apply to BYU.
There had to be way more to it than the employee swearing. Where I work it is
very common place. Im surprised that this made Deseret News oops I forgot its
Utah. The swearing probably just put the straw on that broke the camels back,
meaning there is more to the story and this probably was the accumulation of
many different factors.
Most applicants? Nine of the top ten are California schools, actually. BYU
doesn't ring in until #195.
During a week at Aspen Grove Alumni Camp some years ago my plain spoken wife, in
a Seminar monitored by a General Authority, used the "bull droppings"
word.The BYU professor that was giving the seminar was horrified.
Outside a few minutes later, he came to her, she tried to apologize and he just
said he had heard a lot worse. He then told her that the point she had made was
I honestly don't think they'd fire him over this one incident. Especially in
light of the fact that someone else reported it and he was let go at the end of
his shift. If someone reports an honor code violation, it is investigated,
since sadly, there are false reports made in retaliation for a broken heart. It
happened to my son's roomate. His ex falsely reported some bad behavior and
thankfully he was finally cleared of any wrongdoing.
Swearing as a reaction to pain really is understandable. It's quite different
than vulgar language just for the @$%&$^ of it. There's more to this story.
I can't imagine someone swearing from pain and another student just walking
past and not helping and then making sure to report their offensive, but
understandable human reaction.
So many judgmental people piping in here.So willing to make sweeping
generalizations based on the action of one or a few and without hearing both
sides of the story.The self righteous attitude may rear is ugly head at
BYU, but it is is the exception, not the rule. And to believe that BYU
officials fire an employee on the basis of one swearword is just plain
ridiculous. Trust me, it didn't happen that way and wouldn't happen that way.
Those who say otherwise are just among the masses who are aggressively looking
to find any fault in a really fine (not perfect) University.
To Worf? Where did you get the data that BYU receives more student applications
each year than any other college in the country? You've got to be kidding me!!
BYU may be a great school to attend, but there is no need to spread false rumors
about how popular it is. Do a search on the internet for the facts listing
which colleges receive the most student applications!
Brian Devine should enjoy his brief moment of fame and glory. In 3 days the
world will have forgotten about him and moved on, and Mr. Devine will find new
employment where there is no honor code.One thing is for certain,
and that is that faculty, students, and employees at BYU don't tolerate those
who break the honor code.
Kami,I've read about BYU applications a couple times but didn't keep
the sources. For what it's worth, during one of the recent BYU basketball games
on CBS, the announcer mentioned that BYU ranked highest with turning away
applicants because there were so many wanting to get in. It was during a
discussion of Branden Davies. They were mentioning the honor code not
discouraging students from applying. Maybe someone heard that also. There was
also another article about how many students are turned away for every one
accepted. It was pretty high. I never thought of defending the high amount of
applications so I didn't keep the sources. I've heard Utah Valley College will
enroll close to forty thousand students this coming fall and is just a few miles
from BYU. Many of these students were denied enrollment at BYU. Also,if you
call the administration office, they can verify the high amount of applications
I have been a department manager for 20 years and that experience tells me that
the student wasn't fired simply for the drop of one swear word. Terminations are
NEVER that simple and only the manager and the employee know the complete story.
The student was probably already on short time for other reasons. Having said
that, this goes to the person who complained to the department manager. Are you
serious? Do you live in a bubble? I truly feel sorry for anyone rotating through
your universe who doesn't live up to your expectations. Your destined to be a
very disappointed human being.
Ooops! I mean YOU'RE destined to be a disappointed humane being. :'(
I don't work at BYU, but I daresay I would probably be fired for using that
profanity on the job. It has more to do with being a responsible adult than it
has to do with being at BYU. Seems to me that they can't win. If they don't
hold their employees (and athletes) to the standard they have agreed to live,
they are called hypocrites. If they do hold them to this standard they are
called judgemental and self righteous.
Just caught MajMarine's comment:Perhaps my comment was too widely
applied. I'm not suggesting that life or institutions should not have rules or
consequences, just that they ought to be relevant. A school should not tolerate
those who "lie, cheat, or steal". BYU's honor is much different from
this. Though, comparing BYU to military academy is quite a fair comparison.
Attending Westpoint for example, is much more than "going to college".
It also includes concurrent and post graduation, armed services commitments.
Likewise, attending BYU is far more than "college". I could accept the
military responsibility, but I have no interest in being a "company
man" for the Mormon Church. People who resent the corporate lifestyle of
BYU often surprise me, and that was my whole point. Why would you attend school
there, if you don't like the parochial atmosphere?
I worked at BYU for several years and found them to be fair. An important point
is that while the student may be free to tell his side of the story and justify
it however and whenever he wants, the school will not do so, out of privacy
policies that benefit the school and the student.It is kind of like
the "horror" stories I've heard about some church leaders who have
done something "unfair" to someone. I'm not saying that this has
never happened. But generally the individual has the prerogative to make
public any information he/she wants to, however limited or complete, honest or
biased it may be. However, the norm is that the bishop will not reveal the
facts of the case and will take them to the grave due to the (wise) private
nature of interactions between him and his congregation members. He will keep
the matter private. If I broke the rules of an organization to
which I belonged, and were sanctioned, I certainly wouldn't want that
organization to go out and publicly state all the details. Please remember, we
usually only hear one side, whether at BYU or not.
If it was for more serious issue why would he still be invited or encouraged to
@WorfSomeone once told me that BYU has the highest dropout rate of any
college in the United States. I also read someplace taht Elvis was spotted in a
local mall the other day. Just because something is heard or read doesn't
make it accurate. Please check your sources or try to verify information before
making it up.
People who attend and work at BYU don't want to, and don't have to, listen to
the F-bomb being thrown around. Additionally, it is naive to assume that this
swear word came out of his mouth spontaneously for the first time ever in the
heat of the moment.I find it refreshing that a school of higher
learning has high standards and insists that they are followed.