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Was BYU student fired from campus job for swearing?

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  • Cactus Pete Centerville, UT
    March 31, 2011 10:28 a.m.

    People who attend and work at BYU don't want to, and don't have to, listen to the F-bomb being thrown around. Additionally, it is naive to assume that this swear word came out of his mouth spontaneously for the first time ever in the heat of the moment.

    I find it refreshing that a school of higher learning has high standards and insists that they are followed.

  • NewInUtah Layton, UT
    March 27, 2011 3:38 p.m.

    @Worf
    Someone once told me that BYU has the highest dropout rate of any college in the United States. I also read someplace taht Elvis was spotted in a local mall the other day.
    Just because something is heard or read doesn't make it accurate. Please check your sources or try to verify information before making it up.

  • K Mchenry, IL
    March 27, 2011 2:28 p.m.

    If it was for more serious issue why would he still be invited or encouraged to apply again?

  • very concerned Sandy, UT
    March 27, 2011 7:43 a.m.

    I worked at BYU for several years and found them to be fair. An important point is that while the student may be free to tell his side of the story and justify it however and whenever he wants, the school will not do so, out of privacy policies that benefit the school and the student.

    It is kind of like the "horror" stories I've heard about some church leaders who have done something "unfair" to someone. I'm not saying that this has never happened. But generally the individual has the prerogative to make public any information he/she wants to, however limited or complete, honest or biased it may be. However, the norm is that the bishop will not reveal the facts of the case and will take them to the grave due to the (wise) private nature of interactions between him and his congregation members. He will keep the matter private.

    If I broke the rules of an organization to which I belonged, and were sanctioned, I certainly wouldn't want that organization to go out and publicly state all the details. Please remember, we usually only hear one side, whether at BYU or not.

  • Mormoncowboy Provo, Ut
    March 27, 2011 2:57 a.m.

    Just caught MajMarine's comment:

    Perhaps my comment was too widely applied. I'm not suggesting that life or institutions should not have rules or consequences, just that they ought to be relevant. A school should not tolerate those who "lie, cheat, or steal". BYU's honor is much different from this. Though, comparing BYU to military academy is quite a fair comparison. Attending Westpoint for example, is much more than "going to college". It also includes concurrent and post graduation, armed services commitments. Likewise, attending BYU is far more than "college". I could accept the military responsibility, but I have no interest in being a "company man" for the Mormon Church. People who resent the corporate lifestyle of BYU often surprise me, and that was my whole point. Why would you attend school there, if you don't like the parochial atmosphere?

  • jayelynn Provo, UT
    March 24, 2011 9:30 p.m.

    I don't work at BYU, but I daresay I would probably be fired for using that profanity on the job. It has more to do with being a responsible adult than it has to do with being at BYU. Seems to me that they can't win. If they don't hold their employees (and athletes) to the standard they have agreed to live, they are called hypocrites. If they do hold them to this standard they are called judgemental and self righteous.

  • ih8bella West Jordan, Utah
    March 24, 2011 8:34 a.m.

    Ooops! I mean YOU'RE destined to be a disappointed humane being. :'(

  • ih8bella West Jordan, Utah
    March 24, 2011 8:31 a.m.

    I have been a department manager for 20 years and that experience tells me that the student wasn't fired simply for the drop of one swear word. Terminations are NEVER that simple and only the manager and the employee know the complete story. The student was probably already on short time for other reasons. Having said that, this goes to the person who complained to the department manager. Are you serious? Do you live in a bubble? I truly feel sorry for anyone rotating through your universe who doesn't live up to your expectations. Your destined to be a very disappointed human being.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    March 23, 2011 10:31 p.m.

    Kami,

    I've read about BYU applications a couple times but didn't keep the sources. For what it's worth, during one of the recent BYU basketball games on CBS, the announcer mentioned that BYU ranked highest with turning away applicants because there were so many wanting to get in. It was during a discussion of Branden Davies. They were mentioning the honor code not discouraging students from applying. Maybe someone heard that also. There was also another article about how many students are turned away for every one accepted. It was pretty high. I never thought of defending the high amount of applications so I didn't keep the sources. I've heard Utah Valley College will enroll close to forty thousand students this coming fall and is just a few miles from BYU. Many of these students were denied enrollment at BYU. Also,if you call the administration office, they can verify the high amount of applications coming in.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 23, 2011 9:03 p.m.

    Brian Devine should enjoy his brief moment of fame and glory. In 3 days the world will have forgotten about him and moved on, and Mr. Devine will find new employment where there is no honor code.

    One thing is for certain, and that is that faculty, students, and employees at BYU don't tolerate those who break the honor code.

  • Kami Bountiful, Utah
    March 23, 2011 7:30 p.m.

    To Worf? Where did you get the data that BYU receives more student applications each year than any other college in the country? You've got to be kidding me!! BYU may be a great school to attend, but there is no need to spread false rumors about how popular it is. Do a search on the internet for the facts listing which colleges receive the most student applications!

  • idablu Idaho Falls, ID
    March 23, 2011 6:26 p.m.

    So many judgmental people piping in here.
    So willing to make sweeping generalizations based on the action of one or a few and without hearing both sides of the story.
    The self righteous attitude may rear is ugly head at BYU, but it is is the exception, not the rule. And to believe that BYU officials fire an employee on the basis of one swearword is just plain ridiculous. Trust me, it didn't happen that way and wouldn't happen that way. Those who say otherwise are just among the masses who are aggressively looking to find any fault in a really fine (not perfect) University.

  • Sarah B SLC, UT
    March 23, 2011 5:17 p.m.

    Swearing as a reaction to pain really is understandable. It's quite different than vulgar language just for the @$%&$^ of it. There's more to this story. I can't imagine someone swearing from pain and another student just walking past and not helping and then making sure to report their offensive, but understandable human reaction.

  • Sarah B SLC, UT
    March 23, 2011 5:04 p.m.

    I honestly don't think they'd fire him over this one incident. Especially in light of the fact that someone else reported it and he was let go at the end of his shift. If someone reports an honor code violation, it is investigated, since sadly, there are false reports made in retaliation for a broken heart. It happened to my son's roomate. His ex falsely reported some bad behavior and thankfully he was finally cleared of any wrongdoing.

  • BobP Port Alice, B.C.
    March 23, 2011 4:06 p.m.

    During a week at Aspen Grove Alumni Camp some years ago my plain spoken wife, in a Seminar monitored by a General Authority, used the "bull droppings" word.

    The BYU professor that was giving the seminar was horrified. Outside a few minutes later, he came to her, she tried to apologize and he just said he had heard a lot worse. He then told her that the point she had made was right on.

  • Just Clint SLC, UT
    March 23, 2011 3:56 p.m.

    Most applicants? Nine of the top ten are California schools, actually. BYU doesn't ring in until #195.

  • bobosmom small town, Nebraska
    March 23, 2011 3:32 p.m.

    There had to be way more to it than the employee swearing. Where I work it is very common place. Im surprised that this made Deseret News oops I forgot its Utah. The swearing probably just put the straw on that broke the camels back, meaning there is more to the story and this probably was the accumulation of many different factors.

  • Stenar Salt Lake City, UT
    March 23, 2011 2:56 p.m.

    worf said: "More students apply to BYU than any college in the country. Must be something appealing about the school. People who keep finding fault, go somewhere else. You don't need to post daily complaints. It's a free country."
    ============
    Uhhh... that's not true at all. More students apply to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Berkeley and a hundred other schools than apply to BYU.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    March 23, 2011 2:54 p.m.

    '...with the hyper-sensitive flocking to BYU's defense for its role my invented scenario, and the shrunken-hearted buzzing around like flies, condemning BYU for a hypocrisy that never happened.' - agkcrbs | 2:40 p.m.

    And if your wrong?

    If BYU DID fire this man for swearing?

    What then?

    You would have to apologize to all those 'shrunken-hearted.'

    I'm not saying he, or BYU did, or did NOT do anthing wrong.

    The picture, is incomplete.

    Yes, BYU has to adhere to privacy laws.

    But the fact that they cannot, or will not give out the 'other details' of this situation...

    does not mean anything. That they are right, or wrong.

    Since a BYU student was also sidelined for having relations outside of marriage though...

    this would fit in line with those 'high standards.'

    And give people more reason to look elswhere for college.

    FYI, the Deseret News is owned by the same group that owns BYU. So claims of the 'lame stream media' using an 'agenda' here are kind of moot.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    March 23, 2011 2:50 p.m.

    More students apply to BYU than any college in the country. Must be something appealing about the school. People who keep finding fault, go somewhere else. You don't need to post daily complaints. It's a free country.

  • agkcrbs Holladay, UT
    March 23, 2011 2:40 p.m.

    Reading these comments, I get the distinct feeling I could say anything at all against BYU -- I could make up whatever offended accusation I wanted because of some personal failure, and write it up and send it to some editor -- and Deseret News would blaze it across the land, with the hyper-sensitive flocking to BYU's defense for its role my invented scenario, and the shrunken-hearted buzzing around like flies, condemning BYU for a hypocrisy that never happened.

    Anybody who doesn't see right through the retaliatory mood of that poor employee has been let down by our educational system.

  • Hey It's Me Salt Lake City, UT
    March 23, 2011 2:16 p.m.

    Let's all jump on this kids bandwagon! NOT. He can say what ever he wants and BYU is held to privacy laws. . . be reallistic, he diden't get fired just for swearing there is a whole lot more to this story. He seems to be liking the attention though.

  • nottyou Riverton, UT
    March 23, 2011 1:46 p.m.

    If you disruptive in the work place you deserve to be fired.

  • jasonlivy Orem, UT
    March 23, 2011 1:18 p.m.

    Come on! This is so ridiculous that BYU would fire someone over swearing! I think everyone wants to sensationalize BYU's honor code saying that it takes things too far and it's way too over the top in it's enforcement.

    The fact is this kid did more than just swear. I feel they were looking for an excuse to fire him due to other issues, whatever they could be. I would like to ask, Was he lazy? Late to work habitually? Harassed other workers? Dressed inappropriately? Obnoxious? This kid obviously thinks the only thing he did wrong was swear, but I would bet that's not the case.

    How often do we live in our own reality? I think this guy needs a wake up call and I wish he would have humbled himself, looked at the situation, sat down and had a candid talk with his former boss. Then and only then would he get the real truth.

    I would like to see a follow up story about the real reason why he was fired...

  • FLAKE Springville, UT
    March 23, 2011 12:22 p.m.

    There is no way that anyone actually believes that the student got fired for saying one swear word. I work for BYU and sometimes people let them slip. Never has anyone that I know of been fired for that. He obviously wasn't a great employee so they used his swearing (probably happened more than once) as an excuse to get rid of him. It was a smart move by his supervisor.

  • EgbertThrockmorton Layton, UT
    March 23, 2011 12:17 p.m.

    While our four Military Academies do have their Honor Code, the main difference, is that our military cadets are expected to self-report Honor Code violations. At the school in this article, there IS a huge reliance of self-appointed tattle-tales, to regulate the schools reputation. BYU in Provo seems to have a penchant for wanting to provide a reputation that belies reality in terms of student behavior. We as parents, can't even get a viable reporting of crimes on campus from the school, not to worry, we choose to not support the Provo location at all for a variety of reasons. They sure beat a path to our door for contributions though, relentlessly.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 23, 2011 12:08 p.m.

    @Pagan

    BYU expects students and employees to obey their honor code as any unshaven student with a beard who was turned away from taking an exam will tell you.

    NO one is forced to work or attend BYU and it is refreshing so see an institution that expects their people to follow the rules.

  • rlsintx Plano, TX
    March 23, 2011 11:21 a.m.

    After 30 years in managment (all outside UT I might add...) - you can be sure you're never hearing the full story when something like this is given by the dismissed as a reason for dismissal from employment. There's a bigger story. That may have been the last straw... btw, you can be fired almost anywhere for cursing in the workplace, and you don't need to be warned either.

  • Big_Ben SLC, UT
    March 23, 2011 11:15 a.m.

    There has to be more to the story................

  • PAC 12 loves U Sandy, Utah
    March 23, 2011 11:11 a.m.

    Only at BYU!

  • EgbertThrockmorton Layton, UT
    March 23, 2011 10:50 a.m.

    Who cares if BYU fired somebody for something that was the "tipping-point" OR, the "only point"? There are plenty of people at BYU as students and employees that have suffered at the hands of tattle-tales and self-anointed Saducees. Tattling should be part of the Honor Code as well. The difference between the four main "Cadet Honor Codes" and the BYU honor code, is that our military cadets are expected to have the moral courage to "self-report". At BYU, they have to depend on tattlers. That's a huge difference,encouraging tattling, is morally reprehensible. Seems the "culture" has infected a once great academic institution, and that is a shame.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    March 23, 2011 10:36 a.m.

    I guess they should have fired J. Golden Kimball for his language too. Wow I thought I had heard of everything. I guess not.

  • Brettski2024 Concord, CA
    March 23, 2011 10:34 a.m.

    The worst part of it is the comments on the article at the Daily Universe or whatever the BYU paper is called. "You signed up for the honor code" and "you'll be forgiven eventually" wow.

    And they wonder why people don't like them.

    My bet is that the Dnews won't publish this comment......

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    March 23, 2011 10:34 a.m.

    Trying to claim there is some 'other, mysterious and as yet unconfirmed' reason for this termination is silly.

    If the 'moral standards' of BYU are SO high, than stand by them!

    Lying about it does not make you moral.

  • bigv56 Cottonwood, CA
    March 23, 2011 10:28 a.m.

    why is it always BYU that has to "lighten up".? How about student responsibility. It is not the school's fault. There is probably more to the story. Maybe he is late, incompetent,rude or anything else.

  • MajMarine Salt Lake City, UT
    March 23, 2011 10:21 a.m.

    Mormoncowboy | 9:30 a.m. March 23, 2011
    Provo, Ut - "don't attend schools with honor codes" "College ought to be an experience where young adults become self-governing individuals who learn to make wise choices"

    By your reasoning, it certainly rules out the military academies, doesn't it?

    They have stringent honor codes, and no one, to my recollection, has ever questioned the integrity of such code when they have kicked someone out of school (with NO chance of getting back in) for an honor code violation. The Cadet Honor Code at West Point is defined as "A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do." The Honor Code expresses four succinct prohibitions. On a behavioral level, the Code represents a simple standard for all cadets. On a developmental plane, West Point expects that all cadets will strive to live far above the minimum standard of behavior and develop a commitment to ethical principles guiding moral actions. While the expectations of the BYU Honor Code are more exacting, the behavioral and developmental aspects are much the same.

  • amst plano, tx
    March 23, 2011 10:19 a.m.

    Almost everyone at college has had or does have issues on and off with swearing. If the kid hurt himself by accident and swore forgive him if he isn't doing it consistently their really shouldn't be a problem swearing all the time is one thing but swearing when you get hurt it happens. That's my take.

  • In My Humble Opinion South Jordan, UT
    March 23, 2011 10:14 a.m.

    Where's Paul Harvey when you need him?

  • Louisiana Cougar Pineville, LA
    March 23, 2011 10:04 a.m.

    BYU follows the employment-at-will doctrine -- a morally bankrupt doctrine that pales in comparison with the "just cause" rule.

    Rather than firing the guy, why not help him? The answer: the BWC rule.

    What does BWC mean? Because We Can.

  • fresnogirl Fresno, CA
    March 23, 2011 10:02 a.m.

    I think DesNews just posts these stories (pointless, one-sided stories such as this one and yesterday's speculation piece of where Rose would stay) just to get comments.

    Why else would they post this article on the BYU sports board? Was this kid an athlete? Did he work for the athletic department? Nope. They just know that folks who love and hate the University read and comment on those boards.

    This seems like some pathetic (and sadly effective) bid to get people talking about what they read in the Des. Silly. Why don't they just start a rumor mill/gossip column and get it over with?

  • DonP Sainte Genevieve, MO
    March 23, 2011 10:02 a.m.

    When I was attending broadcast school in the military there was a rule. One expletive in the studio and you were gone. Even if the microphones were off. That was back in 1971 when a station could get its license yanked if a listener heard an expletive on the air. Of course it's different today, though I would imagine in this small community I live and work in (yup I am still in radio) an expletive undeleted could get you booted out the door.

  • UtahResident Lehi, UT
    March 23, 2011 9:55 a.m.

    What people need to remember is this. How many times have you listened to someone that was fired tell his/her story and only got half of the details. I would bet that 90% of the time you get the story that portrays the fired as getting the raw end of the deal from the employer. I know people who were fired from my place of employment who told common acquaintances a completely different story from what I knew personally. I know of one person that said he got fired because his manager didn't like him. But in reality, he got fired because he didn't know how do things that he should have, he lied on his resume, and he was always napping on the job.

    So don't always believe everything a fired person tells you.

  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 23, 2011 9:51 a.m.

    I don't think we have all the facts to the full story. But if you choose to work for someone you have to be able to put up with their rules. (However strange or unforgiving they may be)How hard could it be to find a job like this one? My advise time to move on and find a better job.

  • Kami Bountiful, Utah
    March 23, 2011 9:44 a.m.

    Of course we don't know the whole story about the firing, but hearing one swear word out of someone's mouth and turning them in for that? Any member of the church knows we had a Prophet who had a problem with profanity. God didn't fire him.

  • Brian the engineer Columbus, OH
    March 23, 2011 9:41 a.m.

    I find it amusing seeing all of the comments condemning BYU for being too judgmental. (irony)

    Rhetorical question- if you were a manager that fired someone, would you expect the recently unemployed to give an accurate account of why they were let go?

  • Mormoncowboy Provo, Ut
    March 23, 2011 9:30 a.m.

    I think the moral of this story - along with other recent stories - don't attend schools with honor codes. The honor standard abroad should be honesty and integrity, but BYU is also concerned with an image or brand to portray. College ought to be an experience where young adults become self-governing individuals who learn to make wise choices. BYU is too parochial for that type of experience.

  • BYU#1 California, CA
    March 23, 2011 9:26 a.m.

    There must be more to this story.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 23, 2011 9:23 a.m.

    @delasalle
    "Students at BYU are expected to be perfect"

    No, students (and employees) are not expected to be perfect, but they are expected to obey the honor code.

    It is interesting how many people are ready to judge BYU based solely on the word of a disgruntled fired employee. Is there any chance whatsoever that there is another side to the story?

  • Laser Iowa City, IA
    March 23, 2011 9:16 a.m.

    The only ones guilty of being self righteous or judgemental are the folks on this board condeming BYU without knowing the full story.

    I guarantee this employee was not fired for one bad word. A story like this does expose the haters though. Amazing to see how many people are anxious to find fault with BYU, i.e. the church.

  • MajMarine Salt Lake City, UT
    March 23, 2011 9:10 a.m.

    Flashback | 12:03 a.m. March 23, 2011
    Kearns, UT
    "I know Bishops and Stake Presidents that would get fired from a job at the Y due to their potty mouths."

    Yes. Of course. I'm sure you do.

    Interesting that so many of the comments on here are just as judgmental as they accuse the Y, or the 'fellow employee' of being, without even knowing the full story. No rush to judgment here, eh? Methinks the scribes and pharisees are alive and well on the DesNews comment boards.

  • emp1 Provo, UT
    March 23, 2011 8:40 a.m.

    We won't hear the other side of the story because it violates employer/employee confidentiality. I do have to say that I doubt that BYU will fire an employee for saying a single bad word.

  • Vince Clortho S_SPRINGS, UT
    March 23, 2011 7:56 a.m.

    I imagine there is more to the story than Devine reveals. However, I think this is one aspect of LDS culture where from a young age the emphasis is mis-placed or mis-read.
    Maybe as humans we just like to simplify, but for some reason its easier to condemn for a swear word than for anger. When I was growing up I wasnt supposed to fight with my brother and if I did my parents would get after me, but if I swore about something then there was a bigger reaction and a greater fear on my side. So as kids when Id hear someone swear the association was bad person, as if our angry euphemisms are more justified than any casual cursing (You caca -mouthed jerks!).
    My main point is that the principle that should be emphasized is the higher commandment of loving ones neighbor as ones self, not tithe their mint and anise by allowing our children to simplify people (e.g. smoker=bad person, drinker=bad person, cusser=bad person). Kids need to be taught understanding and empathy towards those with different backgrounds and upbringing.

  • SL Rexburg, ID
    March 23, 2011 7:46 a.m.

    There probably IS more to the story. I've seen many cases where the "reason" someone gets fired is not the reason they got fired.

    Having said this, it is disturbing that other students would be such busybodies as to complain about this kid's slip up. Reminds me of that cartoon where a BYU student is lying pummeled in a pile of rocks with the caption "All I said was 'he who is without sin cast the first stone.'

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    March 23, 2011 7:36 a.m.

    I can see it now... a second "Devine Mistake" at BYU... when the national media picks up on this rediculous story. The first happened when one of the networks did a documentary on Jim McMahon which was titled "The Devine Mistake" in retrospect to Notre Dame's Head football coach not wanting anything to do with McMahon when he found out Jim was blind in one eye. If I remember right it was CBS on 60 minutes.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    March 23, 2011 7:25 a.m.

    This non story is just going to be picked up and go global and once again the Deseret news will have made a mountain out of ....aaaaa... a grain of sand. Not even molehill worthy. And of course BYU will once again have to endure all the national pile on deroggatory comments. Thank goodness Devine wasn't on the Basketball or Football team.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    March 23, 2011 7:15 a.m.

    Maybe both Frank Arnold and Roger Reid might be good sources about there being a little more to this kid's story than he's telling. Of course in both Frank's and Roger's cases during many a game... I'm not so sure that they were'nt justified with a few choice words. And if LaVel Edwards didn't voice one or two on National TV...He had to a least thought of a couple of good ones while having a friendly chat with the zebras.

    Deseret News...Come on guys... I know the next game's not until tomorrow night. But really...Is this really something you want to chase in the meantime.???

  • delasalle Sandy, UT
    March 23, 2011 7:03 a.m.

    I have no problem with the firing. Students at BYU are expected to be perfect; if they are not, punishment is in order. I think he should receive several lashings and be sent to bed without dinner. Perhaps somebody can also wash his mouth with soap. He can then start a multi-session counseling program with the honor code office to eliminate the evil spirits that have taken over his body. When he is finally cleansed, he can return to live with the other perfect students at the university.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    March 23, 2011 7:01 a.m.

    Having worked on Campus and having had a few run ins with people including spervisors... I know that there definitely has to have been other previous incidents...and more than likely worse than a kneejerk exclaimation slipping out. They don't just run people off over a simple slip of the tongue. They have checks and means in counceling and rating reports as well when they have someone with a disciplinary history...which being a private institution they also don't have to publish. Time to move on Deseret News....there's nothing out of the ordinary here so don't go starting a witch hunt. It's all about spilt milk...and nothing more.

  • arsphd Provo, UT
    March 23, 2011 6:38 a.m.

    If this kid plays any golf then his penchant for cursing is well-founded and perfectly defendable.

  • Rod Provo, UT
    March 23, 2011 6:32 a.m.

    Gimme a break. First of all I'm not LDS. Second, the comments on this board are all over the place either supporting the school or condemning it. No one outside of the employee and the employer knows what the real reasons are for this employees termination. I'm not so sure that I would condemn the school based on the accusations of a disgruntled ex-employee. The ex-employee is probably very embarrassed about what it was that caused him to lose his job. I also feel comfortable in saying that he probably is a nice person that made a mistake (and I don't think that it was about the swearing). That is unfair of me to even say that because I don't know the real reason that he was let go.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 23, 2011 6:32 a.m.

    @SJ Bobkins
    Yes, you are correct. A church is a hospital for sinners. When, however, you choose to attend or work at BYU you are required to agree to their code of honor.

    BYU spokeswoman Carri Jenkins said "I can say the account being given is inaccurate and incomplete". Could it be possible that the fired employee didn't tell the whole story?

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    March 23, 2011 6:29 a.m.

    Mistakes and less than near "perfection" on the outside have no place. We throw out the "sinners" at a drop of a hat. The church, and BYU, are to help us be better, but I think things are backwards. Now we would get mad because Jesus was hanging out with the wrong crowd. @ BobP is close when he says "we are becoming a church full of Pharisees." Becoming? We are there.

  • DBeck Eagle Mountain, UT
    March 23, 2011 6:26 a.m.

    Why is this news? With so much going on in our communities and state, nation and world, why does this get any coverage? Between swearing and other issues, someone lost a part-time job that will make buying Top Ramen a bit tougher this month. But we have Dads and Moms out here in the real world who have lost their jobs for no fault of their own except they hired on to a company that simply did not weather the financial fall-out caused by greed and dishonest business practices on a global scale. As I'm no fan of self-righteousness (or BYU) which sometimes seems to be a core value of the school, I still don't buy one swear word ending this kids job there. As a prolific cusser myself, I'd suggest he understand it is unprofessional to do so in a work setting regardless of where it is and why. I have done it and reaped the consequences. Great learning experience, so man up!

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    March 23, 2011 4:51 a.m.

    This isn't another example of BYU's Honor Code run amok. It's an example of the D-News not really reporting on NEWS. There's a nuclear reactor blowing up in Japan, Civil War in Libya, wars in Afghanistan, Sudan, Ivory Coast, etc. When Penrod et al stop telling us about stray dogs and BYU employees with bad language, they just might sell some newspapers and educate people about what is going on in the world. We need to demand more out of our Church-owned newspaper, which is not just here to talk about what goes on in the Wasatch Front.

  • CJ Miles Dallas, TX
    March 23, 2011 1:24 a.m.

    You know what I love about people in general?

    They all sin..........

    You know what makes me laugh?

    People who think their sin isn't as bad as someone else's sin and think they are better than someone else.

    Bottom line acccording to Mormon Doctrine:

    All sin keeps you from exaltation..

    The employee who turned the other one in should look in the mirror and turn himself in!!

  • The NIT Draper, UT
    March 23, 2011 1:02 a.m.

    If there is even one shred of truth in the story it's enough to make one want BYU to lose every game they ever play. Come on self righteous university - lighten up.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    March 23, 2011 12:43 a.m.

    We're reading a one sided story. I worked part time at BYU for four years and never heard of this kind of action.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    March 23, 2011 12:03 a.m.

    To quote a very famous guy, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone...". Last time that I looked, this famous guy's name was part of the name of the Church. The self rightous Pharisee that turned this guy in would be better served living in Nazi Germany or Communist Russia.

    They need to lighten up at the Y and finally bury Ernie Wilkinson, the father of it all.

    I'm totally in favor of the honor code, but I know Bishops and Stake Presidents that would get fired from a job at the Y due to their potty mouths. It's time to use a little disgression.

  • Laser Iowa City, IA
    March 22, 2011 11:07 p.m.

    Don't go off calling BYU judgemental, Devine hasn't told the full story. He's just lashing out hoping to get public sympathy.

    BYU doesn't fire people for saying "one" swear word. Come on folks, common sense here.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    March 22, 2011 11:05 p.m.

    I would prefer the company of one who swears than a weasel who goes behind their fellow human beings back and tells their boss they swore and causes them to lose their job.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    March 22, 2011 10:51 p.m.

    If he can apply for and get another BYU job then one incidence of swearing was not the reason for his firing.

    The bigger problem is sending a letter to the paper to make it a public issue. That is more likely to prevent him from getting hired than a minor mistake.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    March 22, 2011 10:42 p.m.

    I personally appreciate a profanity free environment. I wouldn't fire anybody over infrequent use of profanity. I work in the Pacific North West in a large engineering office and a group next to me got into the habit of dropping the F-bomb and several less offensive words. I emailed the manager and he shut it down quickly. This behavior is unprofessional anywhere.

    BYU can get a bit overzealous in enforcing the rules. Neither Orem or Provo enforced their laws requiring bicycle licenses, but BYU did. I got a couple of warnings for not having a license. I just started using different bike rakes so they wouldn't put one of their locks on my bike. (I would have cut it off with bolt cutters or a welding torch if necessary).

    I even heard that they gave a ticket to a guy for walking through a stop sign.

    This is the kind of thing that makes BYU look petty and foolish. These are the exceptions, not the rule.

    I love and support BYU and would not want to attend college anywhere else. BYU just is not perfect yet!

  • Seattleview Federal Way, WA
    March 22, 2011 10:39 p.m.

    BYU being BYU.

    If this is really so extreme why do so many people believe it? I hope there are other reasons but they might also be fairly benign to most people.

  • fresnogirl Fresno, CA
    March 22, 2011 9:56 p.m.

    In My Humble Opinion

    I LOVE that. I'm sharing that one with my hubby. He used to be a Juvenile Probation Officer and is now a father, so he will definitely appreciate that as well!

  • Kyle_loves_jimmer Provo, Utah
    March 22, 2011 9:37 p.m.

    Lol @Gentile. I like your kid-raising style.

    To me, this isn't about the practicality of the honor code, it's about (1) a terrifically terrible act of judgment on the behalf of the management that decided to fire the student, (2) a poor act of judgment on behalf of the student that felt the need to report the behavior to management and (3) another poor act of judgment on behalf of the student who let out the expletive. In that order too.

    I'm a BYU student and I stand by the honor code, I agree with it and try my best to live by it. But when other students, student employees and faculty members mistake the BYU Honor Code for a code of perfection by which all must measure up to, thats when it gets ugly. I really hope that this situation (along with the Brandon Davies situation) can help all of us at BYU to use the Honor Code constructively, and not as a bar of perfection that all persons must live up to or be shunned.

  • Monsieur le prof Sandy, UT
    March 22, 2011 9:14 p.m.

    As has already been pointed out, there is more to this story than meets the eye. You have to be incredibly stupid or naïve to think a good worker would be let go because of a slip of the tongue (even at BYU). You can pick out the BYU haters and rationalists by their inane comments.

    None of us is aware of the entire truth, so we can judge neither the boy, the university, nor the person who overheard the offensive remark. Let it be.

  • Solomon the Wise Alpine, UT
    March 22, 2011 8:45 p.m.

    BYU spokesman:
    "I can say the account being given is inaccurate and incomplete."

    As is the case in most people being fired, there's usually a lot more to the story than one minor breach of "company" policy.

    Sure, he might have been late to work on the day he was fired, but that wasn't the primary reason he was fired.

    Sure, he might have been heard swearing on the day he was fired, but that wasn't the primary reason he was fired.

    I'll bet if you talked to his co-workers, you'd find out there were numerous other issues. Swearing on the job was simply the tipping point.

  • BYU Student Provo, UT
    March 22, 2011 8:13 p.m.

    My point - if there are BYU students writing in condemning kids for swearing, they need to really stop. We have plenty of students at BYU who are struggling and/or striving to be better people. My main issue is with kids writing in and sitting on their high horse, saying that someone who was hypothetically fired for foul language had it coming. I worked in a BYU office for a year, and with probably over 200 individual student volunteers, and I gotta say, some students haven't seen much of what another university is like. And while I love BYU and its student body, they need to be careful in their accusations. We're all trying to do our best here. And a few curse words won't break your ears. Not that foul language should be encouraged, but it is common in the world around us, even in Utah, and learning to deal with it without getting offended is probably a safe idea.

  • SJ Bobkins Gilbert, AZ
    March 22, 2011 8:02 p.m.

    Silly me, I thought a church was a hospital for sinners, not a museum of the perfected. If those who swore or had impure thoughts were dismissed from BYU, or a ward filled with temple workers, the pews and classrooms would be empty.

    "All have sinner and fallen short of the glory" Rom 12.

  • beetdiggingcougar Provo, UT
    March 22, 2011 7:40 p.m.

    @Say No to BO: There is a J Golden Kimball building--it's in Wymount (married student housing). Not a joke.

  • BobP Port Alice, B.C.
    March 22, 2011 7:38 p.m.

    I am afraid we are becoming a church full of Pharisees.

  • Gentile brookings, SD
    March 22, 2011 7:17 p.m.

    Kind of funny really. I recall a good saint cussing when the enemy almost killed him in neat little battle. I guess we should have kicked him out of the unit. Straightened that boy up.

    How utterly silly. My goodness.

    I once told my son that he was allowed really swear if he saw a car full of nuns go off a cliff. That was enough grief to cry out. If there was no car full of nuns, then don't cuss. Save it for the horrible things.

  • fresnogirl Fresno, CA
    March 22, 2011 7:16 p.m.

    How is this a sports article?!

  • gb97 American Fork, UT
    March 22, 2011 7:16 p.m.

    It's ironic how quick to judge people are about being too quick to judge. We don't know the whole story as to why he got fired.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 22, 2011 7:07 p.m.

    Get kicked out for having a normal girlfriend. Get fired for swearing.

    Hey, there's a kid without a part in his hair! Get him!

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    March 22, 2011 6:54 p.m.

    I guess that means there won't be a J Golden Kimball building erected any time soon.

  • That's A Good One Meridian, ID
    March 22, 2011 6:51 p.m.

    Funny how many naive commenters there are on here who actually believe the student was fired for a single swear word and nothing else. Some of you must lay awake at nights waiting to pounce on any article that suggests (with or without any facts) that BYU might have wronged yet another student. Get a life people. Isn't there a "Jimmer is a ball hog" or "BYU will be one and done - 'mark it down'" or "Utah's basketball program has a bright future" fantasy bandwagon article you can go jump on with your silly display of ignorance? Not that a lot of you haven't done that already today.

  • NevadaCoug Overton, NV
    March 22, 2011 6:33 p.m.

    There is more to this story. There has to be. I once cussed at a brand new professor while working and didn't get fired for it (the guy was in the wrong, but I should have showed better judgment). I just can't believe that somebody would be fired for this one offense. Bosses usually will go out of their way to keep people who are good workers.

  • In My Humble Opinion South Jordan, UT
    March 22, 2011 6:20 p.m.

    A friend once said, "When your kid comes home from school in trouble, the first thing out of their mouth is a lie, but if you let them keep talking, the truth comes out."

    Let the kid keep talking...

  • JK in S Portland, OR
    March 22, 2011 6:17 p.m.

    Since when is swearing against the honor code? I know its discouraged, but I've never seen anything that makes it a violation of the code.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    March 22, 2011 6:11 p.m.

    Am I reading Daily Universe? Why on Earth this story got to this Deseret News seciton? Come on.

  • overitnow murray, utah
    March 22, 2011 6:01 p.m.

    even the lord for gives us we are not perfect and neither is the school

  • ShuffleHead Riverton, UT
    March 22, 2011 5:44 p.m.

    I think the person who turned the guy in for swearing should come out publicly and say why he/she decided to be a tattle tale. So self-righteous.

  • thelogicalone salt lake city, UT
    March 22, 2011 5:41 p.m.

    I heard his interview on Doug Wright's show today....it sounded like there were previous "coaching" or disciplinary meetings for performance and coupled with BYU's statement; he wasn't fired just for swearing. That was simply the last straw.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    March 22, 2011 5:29 p.m.

    You know, been there - done that.

    Not the slipping and letting a curse word out (well, okay, that too) but had to make a tough, confidential decision, based on a number of factors, then been criticized in public for only part of the story with no way to answer back.

    Maybe he was let go for one slip of the tongue. I'm not saying that doesn't happen at BYU. But I'm willing to wager we're not hearing the full story. BYU can't tell it, and the boy doesn't have to.

    Too bad for everyone.

  • Sandy Salt Lake City, UT
    March 22, 2011 5:29 p.m.

    This story reminds me of the one last week about the pregnant student in Logan who felt forced to drop her class instead of risking a bad score on a test. What on earth makes these tales of petty student grievances headline news? DesNews, you're bigger than this, right? Or trying to be. Leave the student grievance stories for the student newspapers.

  • CWEB Orem, UT
    March 22, 2011 5:28 p.m.

    There had to be something else to it...

    Or

    Oh my gosh BYU, really, I can point to professors that would have to be fired too.

  • MenaceToSociety Draper, UT
    March 22, 2011 5:12 p.m.

    The tattletale who got him fired will surely be expecting a better spot in heaven for doing so. And I'm sure the tattletale will also tattle on me for this comment.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    March 22, 2011 5:10 p.m.

    Careful, big brother is watching.

  • BYU Student Provo, UT
    March 22, 2011 5:09 p.m.

    Foul language, especially one slip, should never cost you your job at BYU. Let's get some higher-ups, and I mean general authorities, involved in this. I know plenty of BYU employees, and I know plenty that have uttered foul language. I love BYU, but some students are far, far to judgmental. They are too quick to cast stones from inside their bubble. It's a foul word. Not a big deal. As far as I know BYU won't do a THING if you swear once. So this is preposterous. Shouldn't get fired for such things.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    March 22, 2011 5:09 p.m.

    If swearing got you disciplined at BYU there would be no athletes to play basketball or football.