I'm floored that a pro public education staffed and ran UEG can waste state
money with a frivolous lawsuit. It's all show folks and especially on the wake
of such a controversial session which was in large part due to some media hype.
The fact is if your life depended on signatures being accurate, you would take
electronic signatures either! And the money it would take to verify those
signatures? Please. We need to get rational here not so easily
spurred on by mob mentality. We were lucky to fund growth in the
schools this year. With frivolous lawsuits like this, we may not be so lucky
'Wouldn't' take them..... we all make mistakes. Maybe UEG will be big enough to
immediately come out and admit theirs as well.
I'm amazed by "Freedom |Huntsville, UT" tying ethics reform with an
insult to public education. I guess because people stood up to the legislature
and used the law to overturn vouchers "Freedom" feels that it's OK to
change the law to diminish the voice of the people. I believe it's in the best
interest of all the people, not just suporters of public education, to have
ethics reform in our state government. Just look at the uproar over HB477. Just
because the Lt. Governor keeps changing the rules of how he wants to listen to
the people doesn't mean the voices of the people will be silenced. It's sad to
me that in a state that should be known for having the highest moral standards
has in place in the legislature a system of rules for itself that allow for
corruption. Other states have seen the light and reformed themselves. It's time
for Utah to catch up and again set an example of ethical government.
Once again Bramble finds himself on the side of self interest instead of public
The problem is not in counting. They know the results but don't like them. Now
to hatch a plan to get around it, that is the problem.
Utah law has NEVER allowed electronic "signatures" to be used on
petition drives. If we want to allow electronic signing of petitions, it should
be the legislature that sets standards for what constitutes a valid, accepted,
verified "signature" NOT some petition group. I
personally went to the web page that was gathering so-called
"signatures" for this petition. To get a "signature" they
were only asking for the user to input data that is readily available from
multiple public sources including voting rolls. There was NOTHING to prevent
fraud.Furthermore Utah law has always required that petition
signatures be public information. In the case of someone trying to use
electronic, on-line "signatures" this becomes even more crucial than
it normally is so that I can verify my name has not been signed fraudulently.
But the petition people have sued to keep their "signature" names
secret; so I can't even make sure my name isn't being used fraudulently.At the end of the day, this "ethics" petition has nothing to
do with ethics. It is all about a power grab by a political minority. It is
about the educrats punishing the legislature.Real ethics. Not this.
@ Instereo - I'm not interested in fighting. I'll assume your position is
sincere. Kim Burningham is on the State Board of Education and has been
involved in Education for quite some time. If you go to the Gov. site and their
site, you can verify board members. Most if not all are public education past
and present affiliates and UEA members and a past UEA lobbyist. Surely, they
(he) are painfully aware of our States shortage on revenue resulting in
restricted education funding over the past two years. (This year being the
first to fund growth in two years) Well, who is going to pay for this law suit?
Revenue that otherwise could be used to fund education and other needs as well.
In addition, there was a joint (almost 100% agreement) agreement
that was voted on and passed in the last election that makes UEG's petition
obsolete. This is nothing more than a smear campaign. It's a sham
and a shame.
13 million to losing bidder?Money to defend Message laws?Secret
closed door meetings?Instereo is correct.This is more limiting
of Utah's Citizens voices. (see caucus shenanigans) Of course there's no history
of electronic petitions because Utah refuses to grow-up and enter this
century.If banks and retailers can conduct business online (with
huge amounts of info and money) why can't the local gov figure out how to make
it easier on voters? Oh that's right our legislators don't want to hear from
their citizens they know what's best and the only thing they want easier is to
be able to hide their wicked ways.
The only ethics reform our legislators want is what they choose for themselves.
See what's wrong with that. On this issue the legislature is at odds with the
majority of Utah's voters. The initiative is the only remedy for legislators
who refuse to respond to voter wishes. Utah usually prefers
Republicans because of other issues, not one. Ethics reform were the only issue
we would have elected Utah Democrats. This petition will let Utahns remind the
legislators that being elected on the strength of some issues does not give them
the right to ignore our wishes on all the other issues. If this lawsuit
succeeds, the people will be able to vote on it without having to decide if its
a Democratic or Republican issue.And the majority of the voters is
not a "mob."
I find it interesting that electronic signatures are not allowed... The State of
Utah acknowledges an electronic signature as good enough to get my tax number
and collect money from my efforts to make a living, but not good enough for a
petition. How ironic...
The Governor and his Lieutenant Governor definitely didn't want ethics reform,
that is why they signed the controversial HB477 into law to help keep ethics or
lack thereof quiet in their efforts. I took the ethics tests that both the
lobbyists and the legislators are supposed to take and it is so straight forward
and simple to accomplish without a problem. It does remind one about the
procedures and techniques required by the law. I still find it hard to believe
that legislators would jeopardize or have people question why they wouldn't
complete such a simple task prior to the deadline. The lobbyists make money by
their job and if you don't have the test taken, that is basically the same as
driving without a license or being in the country illegally. They make the laws
and should be held "accountable for their acts in relation to them, both in
making laws and administering them, for the good and safety of society."
If these legislators and governor would not violate the principles, we could
probably have more peace in the governmental process and freedoms of the
Constitution of Utah and the United States. Agency.
The citizens of Utah need to have a petition to clarify how the petitions should
be done. We need to take back our rights
We already have ethics remedies, they are called elections, prosecution, recall
elections, reprimand and impeachment. This so called "ethics reform"
is nothing of the sort. It is a way for the minority party to avoid winning in
the arena of ideas, and to instead, leverage influence by a committee.Any intellectually honest person who takes even a quick read of this grossly
misnamed proposal can only come to one conclusion. This will be misused. A
small committee could hold a threat of sanction against a legislator, in a
guilty till you prove your innocence boot to the throat. This is the wrong way
to govern. We all want high ethics in our representation, and when
those ethics are broken, the media and our existing checks and balances have
always proven sufficient.