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Hundreds walk out of class to rally for football coach charged with child abuse

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  • DeltaFoxtrot West Valley, UT
    March 21, 2011 11:01 a.m.

    I hope every single one of these students is disciplined. Under the laws dictating formation and operation of public schools the rights of Freedom of Expression and Freedom to Assemble are NOT granted to students on school grounds during school hours.

  • ouisc Farmington, UT
    March 21, 2011 11:02 a.m.

    This is a very impressive show of support and solidarity among the students at Wasatch, especially the eye-witnesses to the alleged "abuse!" I'm in awe.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    March 21, 2011 11:14 a.m.

    This show of support really won't change a thing. It is up to the UEA and this teacher's lawyers to protect him. The students can do more to make sure to tell their parents not to reduce teachers and the teacher union's rights.

  • bleeding purple Santa Ana, CA
    March 21, 2011 11:15 a.m.

    DeltaFoxtrot - I really hope you are being sarcastic! Why do we always let the instigator triumph and punish the one who is trying to set a situation right? Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.

  • Considering Stockton, UT
    March 21, 2011 11:18 a.m.

    From what has been reported here (and we should always take that with a grain of salt), it sounds like the charges are improper on at least two fronts.

    First of all, a teacher should be allowed to maintain discipline in his classroom. If that requires some minimal amount of physical contact or force, so be it. Schools had a lot fewer problems when teachers were allowed to use a paddle. In the absence of any real injury inflicted on the student, for a teacher to put a 17 year old male student against a wall while explaining the facts of life should not be considered criminal.

    Secondly, if there is a crime, "child abuse" sounds like the wrong charge. I should think simple assault is far more appropriate than anything involving "abuse."

    I think allowing teachers to maintain discipline in the classroom is FAR more important and will do far more to improve both working conditions and education for all students than will pay raises, better benefits, etc.

  • SLC gal Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2011 11:23 a.m.

    GO KIDS!!!!!! I hope these students see a very positive outcome from thier walkout.

    When I was in 6th grade, I had a teacher who would literally kick students in the rear, and no one batted an eye (and this was in the days after corporal punishment in classrooms was frowned upon).

    I wouldn't have handled the situation the same way that teacher did, but the fact that it caused the teacher to be terminated is just ridiculous.

  • attentive Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2011 11:24 a.m.

    A lot of students stood up for Pratt, too. Remember him?

  • Joggle Clearfield, UT
    March 21, 2011 11:27 a.m.

    When I was in school this kind of treatment toward a disruptive student was NOT considered to be "child abuse". It was called getting the students attention and controlling the class. I recall a teacher taking a disruptive student by the shirt collar and pushing him up against the wall and warning him to cease his behavior or be sent to the principal's office. Being sent to the principals for further disciplinary action was called corporal punishment which involved pain, not designed to cause injury....usually with a spanking board. While I don't condone child abuse....I do think the constraints placed on teachers to be able control their class rooms has tied their hands which has lead to students to use it to their own advantage. In this case the teacher/coach may have lost control of his frustration with this student somewhat, but child abuse...it isn't! What next....the parents suing the school or coach/teacher?

  • M&Ms Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2011 11:27 a.m.

    Probably 99% of these kids have nothing to do with football, don't know the coach, and don't care. All they see is a chance to get out of class. Some will make fools of themselves to the TV cameras, and the rest will wander off to the nearest 7-11.

  • EgbertThrockmorton Layton, UT
    March 21, 2011 11:29 a.m.

    @attentive-
    Pratt's situation is entirely different. HE was the disruptive influence. Not his victim.
    Personally, I think more students need to meet "The Board of Education"in the Vice-Principals Office, while in Junior High and High School. Too many "think" they can behave in any manner they choose with few if any real consequences for their actions.(suspension isn't a consequence to a disruptive little jerk)
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with a teacher maintaining respect from a student, and it's sounding more and more like this teacher needed to engage the student exactly as he did. sometimes, Mommy and Daddy, your little angel is anything but, and needs a course correction, since most parents now are too afraid of their children to teach them respect for others in the first place.Political correctness is moral cowardice.

  • Y Ask Y Provo, UT
    March 21, 2011 11:32 a.m.

    Kids will sometimes be "unruly". That is no excuse for an adult to violate the law. Violence is not the answer. Short of self-defense, this coach had no business being violent with this student.

    If this coach lacked enough training and self-control that he couldn't be the adult, and behave professionally, then he does not deserve to be a coach or a teacher.

    If the coach does not take personal responsibility for his bad behavior, and pay the price, suffer the consequences, then he is not the man of character and integrity everyone is claiming him to be. And he is setting a horrible example for the students he claims to be trying to teach.

    Coach, I call on you to take responsibility for your actions. Don't try to minimize what you have done, or blame your actions on this "kid", or excuse yourself.

    Practice what you preach and take responsibility.

  • DeltaFoxtrot West Valley, UT
    March 21, 2011 11:34 a.m.

    It doesn't matter whether or not the students think it was justified or not. rules created for student protection specifically forbid teachers touching students in that manner. By walking out in protest the students are just breaking more rules, the ones governing attendance.

    The Rule of Law protects the good people as well as the bad. Mr. North will have his day in court before a jury of his peers. They will determine whether his actions constituted abuse or not.

    I am all for corporal punishment of children. However, over the years parents and child advocacy groups have successfully campaigned against it. So now we have rules against it. Mr. North knew his actions were forbidden and will be punished for them. If you don't like that, go start a committee to return corporal punishment to schools.

  • Hoops Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2011 11:39 a.m.

    M&Ms, I don't think you understand the dynamics of a school in such a small community. Not only do most of the students know this coach, odds are they've taken a class from him at some point. He doesn't just coach football--he also coached girls' basketball. He teaches PE, and Drivers' Ed. And, there's even a strong possibility that some of the students' parents were also taught/coached by this man. While it may be that some students joined in as an excuse to get out of class, the majority of these students know Coach North, respect him, and want to demonstrate their support.

  • Hunt Spanish Fork, UT
    March 21, 2011 11:46 a.m.

    It looks like to me that the only child abuse is in this kids home where he is not being taught proper social skills and the importance of respect.

  • sjgf South Jordan, UT
    March 21, 2011 11:47 a.m.

    This situation highlights a lot of what is wrong in America today. The pendulum has swung too far.

    Children by nature are testing limits. They need to be shown societal limits, yet it is politically correct to let them get away with just about anything. Having not been an eye-witness to this event, all I can go on is the reports. The reports tell me that this child was WAY out of line, and needed to be put in his place. It sounds like the teacher did that effectively, and that the student was not injured.

    This type of discipline by a teacher should be:

    1) Allowed by law
    2) Encouraged
    3) Supported
    4) Emulated

    Our society will be much better if students learn to respect authority at an early age rather than to rebel against it at every turn.

  • Poqui Murray, UT
    March 21, 2011 11:47 a.m.

    Case law is against the teacher on this one. To physically punish a student (and a shove against the wall is considered physical punishment) will cost him his job and career. And it is considered child abuse because the victim (however loud-mouthed and obnoxious) was under age. As a teacher I can understand his frustration but I can't condone his behavior. The teacher was out of line. The students who marched out in his support need to be taught about the law and how the law protects the student in this case. They may not like the law but it is the law and no amount of marching and protesting can change it.

    I was kicked by one of my teachers when I was in high school. He got frustrated at the class and tried to throw a desk from the front row against the blackboard (like he usually did when he was mad) but this time my foot was in the book holder under the desk. I couldn't get it out in time and he kicked me. He was a beloved teacher but was also fired after that incident.

  • ako Oxon Hill, MD
    March 21, 2011 11:49 a.m.

    @Y Ask Y - I don't know that I would make such a bold call for responsibility when all you know of the situation is the paragraph in the newspaper. Perhaps the fact that the entire community is outraged at the treatment of Mr. North would be a clue that he may not be a reckless jerk, after all...Maybe the parents of the child could take responsibility for their child's insolent behavior? Or maybe even the child himself...

    @DeltaFoxtrot - the rule of law protects good people...after their reputation has been trampled, their credibility ruined, and they've developed ulcers worrying about their future. And what is the consequence to someone who falsely accuses?

    This whole ridiculous situation has me so hopping mad that if my kids were at the high school, I would tell them to walk out, and join them myself!

  • Kyle loves BYU/Jazz Provo, UT
    March 21, 2011 12:26 p.m.

    Those who were there and know him best obviously believe he was mistreated. Good for them for standing up and making their voices be heard.

    Suggesting this is similar to those supporting the seminary teacher is absurd. In this case many students were witnesses and know exactly what happened. They are eye witnesses not character witnesses.

  • Pa. Reader Harrisburg, PA
    March 21, 2011 12:30 p.m.

    These students have the courage to speak out even if it means being punished for breaking attendance rules. They seem to understand, better than their critics on this board, the inappropriate response by adults to the actions of this teacher. Whatever the teacher did, by all accounts it was clearly not child abuse, except in a world where letter of the law enforcement trumps common sense and decency. Since this is not a "hands on" school, teachers must be held accountable when they break the rules. But criminalizing this incident is a major overreach. The students who demonstrated will likely face some form of punishment, but they obviously understand that standing up for principle and defending a friend is more important than remaining silent in the face of injustice. Wrongs committed by those in authority are seldom made right without acts of civil disobedience. Good for the kids!

  • Jax Bountiful, UT
    March 21, 2011 12:34 p.m.

    So all these students that are misbehaving by walking out of class, I assume they would be fine with a teacher coming out and shoving them all into a wall as a response to their behavior?

  • mecr Bountiful, UT
    March 21, 2011 12:43 p.m.

    Oh, and I hope the judge sentences the teacher to some community service and gives the kid and his parents a good lecture for being so enabling to the fruit of their loins.

  • Hoops Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2011 12:48 p.m.

    Jax, do you really think that all of these kids would be marching to support Coach North if he was a jerk and subjected kids to abusive treatment? They all appear to have a bit more ability than you to distinguish between behavior that would be out of line in comparison to the offense. So no, I doubt that the students who were protesting on behalf of Coach North would expect to be pushed against a wall in response. However, the students that were in the room with Coach North when this incident happened have nearly unanimously indicated that the student deserved the treatment he received, and that Coach North's actions were appropriate in the context in which they occurred.

  • Jax Bountiful, UT
    March 21, 2011 12:55 p.m.

    I'm sure North is great guy and coach. He screwed up. It is never okay for a teacher touch a student like that in response to backtalk. Let's not excuse his behavior. It was out of line. And no I don't think that these students understand that it is not okay for a teacher to treat a student like that. They like him and that's why they are supporting him.

  • VB Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2011 12:55 p.m.

    Personally I am fed up with certain kids and their parents. Thinking the world should bow down to them. Story on the news of the boy being bullied for YEARS even contemplating suicide because of said bully and he FINALLY stood up to the bully who would BEAT him. He grabbed the bully and threw him to the ground telling him to leave him alone. The parents of the bully now want an apology from the family... Shouldnt the parents be teaching their kid how to treat ppl with respect??? We teach anti bullying at our HS and we teach respect for others yet I have seen teachers ran out of here in the same manner coach north is getting it. I just WISH all parents would teach their kids respect rather than disrespect. Then again, some parents don't know respect... I agree with Bleeding Purple: Evil Triumphs when good ppl do nothing. Too true!!!

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    March 21, 2011 1:01 p.m.

    We live in a society where kids are taught via music, movies and YouTube videos that respect for authority is something they don't need to have. They can be just as rebellious as they want to be, and in many instances their spineless parents who care more about being their child's buddy than being their mom or dad, often give the green light to this behavior.

    I'm surprised situations like this don't happen more often.

    My wife's cousin teaches school and every year she has to deal with at least one or two kids who show her no respect, refuse to follow classroom rules and often the parent or parents blame her when the kid gets into trouble.

    Of course, we don't want teachers beating up kids in the classroom, and personally I feel Coach North should get some kind of disciple. But when kids continually hear the message, "Disrespect adults," or "Don't let anyone tell you what to do," situations like this are going to keep happening.

  • Jordan Lynchburg, VA
    March 21, 2011 1:05 p.m.

    Heck, I hope my kids will be able to go to a school in the future where they will be punished if they do something wrong. I will give the school permission if I have to, my kids are going to know respect.

  • yankees27 Heber, Utah
    March 21, 2011 1:24 p.m.

    Deltafoxtrot, the assembling of students only started on school grounds because that's where they usually meet in the mornings(duh), the actual protest was at the court house and on main street (off school grounds) AND everyone I knew called in and excused our student so the attendance issue is moot.

    Jax, students never went to class, so they weren't being disruptive leaving class, and to be honest, if my kids acted the way this kid did, I would expect the teacher to handle it, not send them down to the pricipals office for a "time out". Call me old fashioned, but we had way less problems in our schools when teachers could discipline! Obviously there are those who go to far and actually injure someone, but that did not happen here.

    M&Ms, you're wrong. Actually 99% of these students have either been coached, taught in class, or been to church with Steve North. It's still a small town and we all know each other for the most part. It's OK if you don't understand that, just try not to judge what you don't understand.

  • RyKayMama2 Heber, Ut
    March 21, 2011 1:41 p.m.

    Ok so i dont usually do things like this! but im putting my 2 cents in seeing as none of you are from Heber. First off thanky ou to everyone who supports what we all did today. Ive been out of school for 2 years now but you best believe i was there supporting our coach. Being such a small town everyone knows everyone! The child thats accusing him of "abuse" is a punk! i know thats harsh but i know the kid. Coach would never literally abuse someone...and if he was going to dont you think itd be the kid that almost got him killed in the drivers ed car? I think the kid had it comin! you need to treat your teachers and classrooms with respect which is not what this kid was doing!

  • theodoreable Heber City, UT
    March 21, 2011 1:41 p.m.

    Too Bad these students don't even know their Primary Colors. I almost ran over 15 of them as they crossed against a RED LIGHT in Heber City. The UHP had to get out of their car and stop the color blind students from getting killed. Then when four of them came back to the parking lot where I have an office...one of the boys was fighting with {holding back with force} on of the girls from getting in the car first. Is that no different than Coach North?

  • hymn to the silent Holladay, UT
    March 21, 2011 2:06 p.m.

    Proud of the students taking a stand. Good people should never stand by and do nothing when an injustice has occurred. But first, you have to be sure of the injustice. My entire high school studentry walked out in the early 70s as a sign of solidarity for the teachers low pay. It did make a scene, made the news, made the community start to talk about the issue. Pay remains too low, but it did make a jump as a result of all the walkouts and protests...a very valuable civics lesson. And I don't have any problem with a teacher disciplining a student who is making it impossible for my kid to learn something that I, as a taxpayer, pay for. I want my money's worth. Find a place for the disruptive kid or leave it to the teacher to handle; but you can't expect him to teach and babysit. Every student in the state should walk out as a protest against disruptive students who are not culled from the herd.

  • altahoops Provo, UT
    March 21, 2011 2:07 p.m.

    Parents who defend their kids at all costs, even when they are totally in the wrong, instead of correcting them and allowing the consequences for their actions to play out will watch their kids struggle terribly when they grow up. I've seen it time and time again. The best thing these parents could do for their son is take him down to the school and meet with the principal and teacher, have their son apologize for his actions and accept the teacher's apology for getting carried away a little.

  • Demosthenes Rexburg, ID
    March 21, 2011 2:12 p.m.

    Perhaps the student should be charged as well. His classroom behavior was evidently wrong, and likely occurred on a regular basis. That should not go unpunished.

    I agree with the previous comment that the student's parents share blame in this. I'd like to see a legal precedent set in which parents are held responsible for consistent outrageous behavior (to be carefully defined) by their children.

  • no fit in SG St.George, Utah
    March 21, 2011 2:21 p.m.

    Yes, a teacher should not touch a student........
    Spend a day or two in a Utah Special Education class. Watch those "students" kick, bite and punch the teachers. Teachers should not touch a student.
    While you are at the school, visit the Regular Ed classes. Catch a few of those sound bites from the out of control jokesters who like to add colorful words to their outbursts. This continues on and on DAILY while Utah teachers are trying to assist YOUR children in getting an education.
    Listen up people!
    In case you were not aware, discipline at a public school is different than it was forty years ago.
    The out of control students know this and take advantage of this common knowledge.
    Want to take another, positive look at why Educators value the UEA?
    Yes, the teacher should not touch a student.....

  • RyKayMama2 Heber, Ut
    March 21, 2011 2:22 p.m.

    theodoreable- Not cool! just sayin we arent colorblind! and im sure the girl and that boy were just playin around! all highschool students do it and how many kids and ADULTS j walk all the time! come on really?

  • lex101 Logan, UT
    March 21, 2011 2:34 p.m.

    Being a former student of Coach North's, I can acclaim that he is a fantastic person and father. The kids that I went to school and took his classes with me were athletes and even the rowdier kids. He has always been level headed with them and when it came to discipline, they listened. If this kid pushed him to this point, he had it coming. Yes, there should be concequences for his actions should happen. However, this is ridiculous! This kid obviously needs to be disciplined. If I acted out in such a way that caused this sort of action, then my parents would say that I needed to learn my lesson. As for the kids "just trying to get school off", yes there are some kids that do that, but Wasatch is a small school. I guarantee that most of those kids know him. I don't care what the state legislature says about kids in school not having those rights. Thats not what the founders of this country would have wanted while signing the Constitution. Everyone has a voice.

  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    March 21, 2011 2:46 p.m.

    Wow, what a teaching moment! If someone in the school district doesn't step up and use this opportunity to help these students and teacher and parents then this moment will be gone and no one will learn a thing. The kid who disrupted the class should pay (somehow) for all the time he wasted for all the other students in the class throughout the year(s).

    I believe that most students will not support a teacher unless he(she) is a great teacher or the student is a total jerk and is really disrepective.

  • sjgf South Jordan, UT
    March 21, 2011 2:49 p.m.

    @ ClarkHippo:

    You said, "kids are taught via music, movies and YouTube videos that respect for authority is something they don't need to have."

    Let me fist say that I agree with most of your comments, but let me take the quoted comment a bit further.

    Kids are not taught to reject authority primarily by the music, movies and videos, but I believe the biggest contributor to their disdain for authority is the political atmosphere that creates rules which outlaw discipline from the classroom. This news story epitomizes the root of the problem in our society. Not the teachers, but the rules put on them by policy makers that tie the teacher's hands and encourage bad behavior in the students.

  • SS Cedar City, Utah
    March 21, 2011 3:07 p.m.

    So my last comment was denied, I may have gotten a little carried away! I think that it is ridiculous that the Coach has been pinned as the bad guy. Those who would support a kid, or kids, that are disruptive are the reason the kids are disruptive in the first place. I graduated four years ago in a small town. If I was out of line on different occasions I was sometimes physically disciplined and if my parents found out that the teacher had physically disciplined me they would physically discipline me as well because they supported the teachers and their judgements. They were more concerned with respect then anal rules. There is a fine line between abuse and discipline. Discipline produces respect, and it is something that is really being missed in schools and society today.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    March 21, 2011 3:53 p.m.

    I'm glad these kids are standing up for something and voicing an opinion. Expressing and forming opinions have been replaced by preparations of standardized testing. Students recognizing and responding to student misbehavior was more than what the administration had done. The misbehaved student should be punished, not the teacher. What are we teaching by punishing a teacher in a case like this?

    Students should also protest for more teaching and less testing. Put the pencils down! Isn't thinking and forming opinions part of education?

  • skitarghee Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 21, 2011 4:27 p.m.

    Is the prosecutor an elected position? If so Mr. Sweat looks like he has something to sweat about. He is about to join the ranks of the prosecutor of the Duke Lacrosse team.

    Doesn't sound like child abuse to me unless you are talking about the abuse an unruly delinquent can make.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    March 21, 2011 4:33 p.m.

    What's really sad is that the "victim's" mother has turned her son into the least popular kid in school. I don't think that's what that kid wanted. According to reports, the kid didn't even think the discipline was any big deal.

    This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. The coach/teacher is now a victim of ridiculous excess in the court system and the kid is a victim of an over-protective parent who obviously didn't teach her son how to behave in school.

  • Kami Bountiful, Utah
    March 21, 2011 4:38 p.m.

    Abuse is abuse. It doesn't matter how popular the abuser is. If pushing a student against a wall is considered abusive, then so be it. I remember something similiar happening to a kid when I was in school. The teacher completely lost his temper and grabbed a boy and pushed him against the well. I still remember to this day how shocked I was and how frightened I became of that teacher. I don't know what happened. I'm not in either side's court. But popularity doesn't negate abuse, if that is what occurred.

  • Considering Stockton, UT
    March 21, 2011 4:39 p.m.

    In my day in school (not all that long ago), if a student had been subjected to any kind of physical discipline from a teacher the kid would likely keep his mouth shut about it lest he get the same or worse from his parents when he got home.

    The very fact that our laws and rules no longer allow any form of physical punishment from a teacher is why we have discipline problems in schools. Not only do kids learn that teachers are powerless to enforce discipline, but the laws reflect social values and the lack of real discipline in the homes.

    Nobody is going to defend child abuse.

    But reasonable physical discipline is not abuse, it is not assault. It should not be the first recourse. But sometimes it is necessary as part of teaching respect and enforcing discipline.

    Ironically, I have no doubt that this and every other coach enforces far more harsh physical punishments on his football team than this misbehaving student received. On the field it is running ladders or doing push ups or something similar. But touch a kid with your finger and it is a crime?

    No wonder schools are a mess.

  • gb13 Herriman, Utah
    March 21, 2011 5:14 p.m.

    First of all, the "child protection" law was established principally to protect the "innocent" child. God fearing and responsible parents were the primary supporters of this law - that promotes education (properly and safely).

    However, by the same token, "those" same parents supported this law and expected an overall healthy environment for their children. As this law was so drafted and approved, these parents demanded the overall welfare of their children (in a "healthy environment") - enforced by all those within the education system. Therefore (as limited reporting is provided in this case), there are (at least) three (or four) culprits that may have violated this demand for a healthy environment. 1) The student (himself), 2) the teacher, and/or 3) the school (and district). (The four responsible is the parent/or parents).

    Now, the facts must come forward in order for anyone to make a final decision in this matter, but obviously accountability has to be fully accepted "in all directions." Meaning that, if Coach North is fired, it sounds like he has a "fairly reasonable case" against the other parties.

    If I were one of those parties, I would think very carefully about how to proceed in this case!

  • suzyk#1 Mount Pleasant, UT
    March 21, 2011 5:18 p.m.

    This is a very disturbing story in that when I was in the 8th grade some of the students in class chided me to act like I was speaking to the teacher(he had hearing aids) but just made mouth movements. When the teacher realized what we were doing he came over, took me by the hair and smacked my head on the desk. I was ashamed I had listened to the students...I was easily intimidated back then and felt what the teacher did was wrong and hurtful but I had brought it on. I believe that teachers need to be able to protect themselves from students today who are out of control. They will not learn or grow if they are allowed to get away with that type of behavior. I also believe they should be able to carry a gun to protect themselves as well as their students if the occasion rises.

  • bigv56 Cottonwood, CA
    March 21, 2011 5:18 p.m.

    kick the punk out of school. Kids used to be suspended or expelled for behavior like that so it was know to be unacceptable. Everything is on the side of the punk, and he needs a good beat down and it is up to him to change.delta fox trot why don't you curl up with the "bureaucrats guide to life", and just go away

  • WeberCatBasketballFan Midway, UT
    March 21, 2011 5:26 p.m.

    @JAX What a foolish, foolish comment! Yes, if these protesting kids, did not return to class if/when asked, if they mouthed off, if they became willfully defiant, they should have been severely disciplined. But to ask, that with no warning or instruction, would they be OK with a teacher walking out there and shoving them? No, of course not, what a silly and foolish question! See, it is liberal, paint it how I want to see it manipulators like this that have the system so messed up.

    @SLC gal I agree, if I have been kicked in the rear for this kind of behavior when I was in school, I my father would have done it a second time when I got home and told me "this better never happen again young man!"

    Mark my words, if our culture had appropriate values and integrity, accountability and respect for authority that would have allowed for "correct" addressing of this behavior issue early on, this incident would never have happened.

  • No name Provo, UT
    March 21, 2011 5:29 p.m.

    I bet most of the baby boomers think this article is ridiculous. Most of our elders aren't too impressed with the lack of respect we have these days and probably wish a push to the wall was the worst they had to deal with when they were disciplined. just saying. I've seen some pretty bratty kids that could use a boot camp

  • Let's be real Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2011 5:29 p.m.

    You go kids! Hey Jax. The situation of them WALKING out of class and the misbehaved student with beligerent, foul mouthed, boisterous etc. behaviors is so different, I cannot even take you as an informed person. Study your facts then get back to the paper and post.

  • mornixuur Layton, UT
    March 21, 2011 6:07 p.m.

    Poqui wrote: "They may not like the law but it is the law and no amount of marching and protesting can change it."

    Really?

    History abounds with examples of how public protest changed poor laws. If what you say is true, then apparently the civil rights era never happened, and we would all still be living in a segregated society.

    Closer to home, and more recently: Public protest is on the verge of destroying the abominable HB477.

    How can you seriously tell the youth of today not to stand up for what they feel is right?

  • Lauri Vernal, UT
    March 21, 2011 6:31 p.m.

    So now an incident of bullying has turned into mass bullying? Good job Utah.

  • readAbook Provo, UT
    March 21, 2011 7:01 p.m.

    sjgf and others of your ilk. You honestly think that hitting a kid is going to teach them respect?! Perhaps you should inform your boss that he can beat you whenever he feels you are lacking in motivation and respect.

    The real issue is parents need to take more responsibility for their kids. If they did, the teachers wouldn't have any issues with discipline. If parents taught their kids that doing honest/ethical work, such as homework, mattered more than extra-curricular or church activities then perhaps these kids wouldn't cheat, lie, and disrespect the very nature of education; which includes respecting all the other kids in the classroom. But when given a choice between bad parenting or the teacher being at fault which do you think every parent is going to choose?

    This guy stepped over a line and will pay for it, but the parents are just as responsible for the incident.

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    March 21, 2011 7:09 p.m.

    Lauri - payback time for bullies can never come soon enough, but you just mollycoddle the bullies in your life and see it that works for you. I guarantee you that if the insolent kid and his parents apologized, withdrew any charges, and committed to better personal conduct, the entire community would welcome them back with open arms.

    Absolutely good job, Utah!

  • joseywales Park City, UT
    March 21, 2011 7:46 p.m.

    Funny how many posters have stated on here that the vast majority of the students (99%) actually know Coach North, yet M&M's foolish comment on page 1 actually had 11 recommedations, does that mean 11 people can't read more than one page of the comments? This may be hard for some of the lower valley readers to believe, but in small towns everyone knows one another.

    YaskY, did you cut and paste your comment from another article to this one? couldn't think of anything original to say this time huh?

    mornixuur, awesome! I was actually just thinking the same thing! I truly believe that this little protest was the best education of the week for the students. Not to demean the kid or the situation, but rather to learn that the reason we have a United States of America, is because our forefathers felt the need to stand up against injustice! To stand up for what they feel is not fair! It's happening all over the world right now, for better or worse. I hope the kids will know better how to fight for what they believe in. Awesome!!!

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    March 21, 2011 7:46 p.m.

    How shamefully dishonest to characterize this incident as the teacher "hitting" the student, or to equate it with your boss "beating" you at work. That a shove against the wall for a seriously disrespectful 17-year-old is considered abuse or assault speaks volumes about the misdirected overprotection of near-adults that ultimately leads to entitled "grownups" with no self control.

    And, I know a lot of great parents who have very well-behaved children despite their involvement in extra-curricular and church activities. How one can conclude that those things lead to cheating, lying, and disrespectful conduct is really beyond my comprehension. Sounds like the ridiculous, unfounded rantings of someone who's bitter about something unrelated to the subject of the article.

  • Nan BW ELder, CO
    March 21, 2011 7:53 p.m.

    I doubt that the people who consider the teacher/coach's actions to be "abuse" or "over-reacting" have spent much time being school teachers. I recall once being so exasperated by a student that I removed him from class by dragging him out by his arm. I suppose nothing happened because I was a skinny female teacher and he was a large high school guy, and he was embarrassed that he had tested the rules so blatantly. As a retired teacher, my support goes to the coach and his backers.

  • MJF Somewhere in Time, UT
    March 21, 2011 8:05 p.m.

    I am a retired career teacher. When I started in l969 the kind of thing we have seen play out in Heber would have been laughable. Kids who asked for trouble in those days got it. Not child abuse...but discipline. When a bully who thinks his agenda is more important than the teacher's, and especially his fellow students, he needs to be advised that he has a choice. Early in my tenure, doing what Mr. North did would have have hardly raised an eyebrow except to the offender who got disciplined. These days, if a teacher does anything to preserve sanity in the classroom he/she may be subjected to the kind of over-reactive nonsense that we see in this instance.

    Making things so much harder for teachers goes a long way in keeping the best and the brightest out of becoming teachers in the first place. The demise of public education is a dirct result of this kind of childish insanity by a mother of a child who needs some attention. And the saddest of all, our system allows it!

  • little miss swiss Midway, UT
    March 21, 2011 8:06 p.m.

    Okay enough is enough!

    First of all, all of this is on tape I would sure like to see it!

    Second of all the kids shouldn't of skipped class to protest they should of organized A LOT better with the rest of the community and held it after school it would of looked A LOT better.

    Third of all Steve North is a GREAT person and I truly hope he doesn't lose his job!

    And last but not least is Mr. North and the rest of the teachers know the rules Steve probably over reacted and had a really bad 10 sec. moment unfortunately the facts are he will more than likely lose his job, hopefully other teachers will learn from this and send the kid to the office, if handled properly the admin. would document each time sent to the office and implement a policy like 3 strikes and your out that sounds like an easy solution to me. But for now Steve will have to pay for them not having something like this in place!

    Good luck Coach everyone supports you but you know like us support doesn't do any good right now.

  • libertarian Cedar City, UT
    March 21, 2011 8:15 p.m.

    As usual, in our present society of the "offended", we go to the insane degree of actually filing charges against a teacher for enforcing discipline against a class troublemaker while at the same time coddling and defending said troublemaker. No wonder our society has degraded to such a degree. Good for these kids for supporting their teacher, and shame on the cry-babys that filed charges. Maybe there's hope for us yet! Back in the day, the unruly kid would have received a proper butt whippin' and sent home, and class order would have been maintained. We all expected it.

  • CDog Somewhere, USA
    March 21, 2011 8:40 p.m.

    Support for Coach is statewide. As an opposing coach, I have firsthand knowledge of Steve's interactions with students and parents. Too often athletics brings the worst out in players (HIGH EMOTIONS) and more often parents. I have watched Coach North have the calmer head and better overall picture on more than a few occasions. I do not have or even hear of similar attitudes expressed regarding other coaches around the state. I do not know (and I have racked my brain) a single coach who does not respect this man.
    Actions:
    1. Please take in to account his many years of service (Teacher, Coach, Dr. Ed., Community)
    2. Do not re-elect this County person you elected to serve your interests
    3. LISTEN to the majority (they are not being forced to side either way)
    4. Correct the victim (I use that term very loosely) AND his parents
    5. Help Coach North recover from this with the least amount of damage
    6. Prevent any future incidents with action plans
    7. STOP sweeping unruly student behavior under the carpet
    My only regret is that I am not from Wasatch County where my voice has a vote.

  • ConradGurch Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 21, 2011 9:05 p.m.

    @ Y ask Y. I'm just wondering where you get your great "professional" wisdom? Is it your extensive experience teaching high school students in the class room? Wondering if you've ever worked with kids or donated any time working with them. Perhaps something in the "professional" field for you.

    Get a clue! Class...Class remember to act professional today...PLEASE! Loosen you bow tie already.

    If you were my teacher and I was a student with today's rules... I'd make you cry on a daily basis.

  • florida gators 22 Heber, Utah
    March 21, 2011 9:47 p.m.

    I am in coach norths p.e class and ever since he left p.e has been complete chaos! We need him back he is such a great guy! I hope what we did today will help him out!

  • It's What I think Denton, TX
    March 21, 2011 10:43 p.m.

    Stockton said, "Ironically, I have no doubt that this and every other coach enforces far more harsh physical punishments on his football team than this misbehaving student received. On the field it is running ladders or doing push ups or something similar."

    Very true. Our high school daughter was bullied several times by a boy from school but not at school. Because of this, our vice principal said he couldn't do anything about it school-wise. However, when he found that the boy was on the football team he said the would let the coach know. He said, "We can't officially do anything since it didn't happen at school but the coach can make him run until he pukes." At least it's something!

  • xxJazzAddict05xx heber, ut
    March 21, 2011 11:17 p.m.

    The whole thing is a lose-lose situation. Coach has been treated unjustly and the kid now has a whole school and community against him. If the administration could have just sat the two down and come up with a solution then both of them could go on with their lives with no bad feelings and a better understanding for one another. Now the lives of both could be changed for the worse.

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    March 21, 2011 11:38 p.m.

    To xxJazzAddict05xx - that would require common sense, and as you are probably aware, there is zero tolerance for common sense in many areas of public education today.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    March 22, 2011 1:13 a.m.

    Here are some tips for teachers with unruly students:

    1. Document student misbehavior. Time, date, and behavior.
    2. Press charges for disorderly conduct. If several teachers would do this, behavior will drastically improve as parents do not like paying fines and will help with behavior. To bad Mr. North didn't do this.
    3. Send a generic letter with a list of infractions checked off. Mail it to the parents without student knowledge. Use this for added documentation.

    Teachers have as much right to press charges as parents.

  • theodoreable Heber City, UT
    March 22, 2011 6:16 a.m.

    RyKayMama2...you didn't understand the point. The car in front of me had already gone. On coming traffic from the other side of Main was coming towards the kids as well...and they were DUMB enough to continue to cross. That is not J Walking. J Walking is crossing outside of a crosswalk. They were not doing this. They were crossing on a RED LIGHT....a RED HAND.

    As I walked into Day's last night and the courtesy clerk had trouble driving the cart, I made a funny and told her she was just like the kids in the protest that didn't know green from red. Boy howdy did I get dirty looks. I am sorry if the truth hurts....but a car is a deadly weapon. If I had not been just starting up from a complete stop and it had been a green light for a bit and a car came through at 30 MPH can you imagine the headline in today's paper? Get real RyKayMama2 and don't blame the drivers of cars that need to also get places. The kids were WRONG and that is the truth! Don't cross on RED

  • Max Syracuse, NY
    March 22, 2011 8:59 a.m.

    And we wonder why so many good people aren't interested in teaching.

  • Expert (in training) Layton, UT
    March 22, 2011 9:28 a.m.

    Ref: Y ask Y

    I and only imagine what you kids turned out like or will turn out like? Always someone else's fault, right? Take no responsibility. This kid should be put in the army and let the other troops teach him a thing or two before he ends up in prison.

  • whatnext Clearfield, Utah
    March 22, 2011 9:38 a.m.

    You know I find it very funny how know one is looking at the behavior of this 17 teen year old student. He was disrupting the class, which everyone knows is unexceptable not to mention disrespectful to the person who is trying to teach the class. Since this was not the first time he has disrupted his classes, we can see this young man has not been influnced by the other types of diciplines used by the administration at that school.
    Maybe what the teacher did is not allowed by policy, law, or whatever regulation you want to quote, but his actions were not abusive or harmful to that student. Besides a 17 year olds are minors not children. They know what is expected of them at that age and understand their are consiquences for their actions, unlike a child.

  • Anonymous Infinity American Fork, UT
    March 22, 2011 9:43 a.m.

    Students don't have a right to demonstrate on school grounds or marching as a group to a courthouse. They just don't. The entire student body should be required to attend another day in classes as a makeup day. What is this, Wisconsin? Who is in charge of the asylum anyway? School teachers and the principal should be disciplined as well. The school district should also be held accountable for this action. This is inappropriate during the school day. The students were truants and the adults contribued to this demonstration. I do think the coach/teacher was inappropriately charged and disciplined in this case. The boy involved should be disciplined for confronting the coach. Schools have the right to control disruptive behavior of any student.

  • Sally in England Crawley, England
    March 22, 2011 10:05 a.m.

    As a teacher myself, who has dealt with and continues to deal with disruptive pupils, I tihnk that this teacher should be sacked and never be allowed to teach again. If that happend in England, he would be gone by the end of the day. We show young people how to behave by the way we behave, by example. Grabbing hold of another person, especially a minor and pinning up against the wall is socially and morally wrong.

  • VB Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    March 22, 2011 10:11 a.m.

    The people who come on here and are DISAPPOINTED that the kids banned together and had a "walk out" like Mr Anonymous Infinity from American Fork, CONFUSE THE HECK OUT OF ME! This is an actual REAL thing that people have REAL emotions over and it is an actual REAL teaching moment! Talk about Current Events. This is not something that will soon be forgotten at Wasatch High School. I only wish my children were of that age because I would want them to know that they always have the right to stand up for what they believe to be right! TOO many times the BAD ppl or the LIES are the only things we hear because they are not afraid to run their mouths, they have an agenda. But here you have kids 100's of kids who KNOW what is right!!! If it were divided then I might side with the "Abused child" but if EVERYONE see's it 1 way and only 1 or 2 families see it another... Isn't it obvious? I say, if your kid is ALWAYS in trouble for something, it can't ALWAYS be everyone elses fault!!!

  • Bears Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    March 22, 2011 10:16 a.m.

    Sally- We live in Utah... We don't care what England thinks. Just sayin.

  • G-Force Washington, UT
    March 22, 2011 10:17 a.m.

    Now, some legal wrangling between the school district and the county attorney will ensue. It will be interesting to see if nonaccidental physical or mental injury can be proven. Maybe a counter suit should be filed against the minor. Utah Code 76-9-102 states that a person is guilty of disorderly conduct if he engages in threatening behavior, makes unreasonable noise in public or intends to cause overall public inconvenience or annoyance. Seems fair.

    Definition of child abuse in Utah: Causing harm or threatened harm to a child's health or welfare through neglect or abuse including nonaccidental physical or mental injury, incest, sexual abuse/exploitation, molestation, or repeated negligent treatment. This must be reported by: Physicians, nurses, other licensed health care professionals, other officials and institutions, any person (except priest/clergy unless person making confession consents).

    Utah, without the benefit of corporal punishment, like Idaho, Wyoming and Arizona gets to deal with this type of teenage/student behavior at taxpayer expense.

  • Sarah B SLC, UT
    March 22, 2011 10:34 a.m.

    This coach has now been judged by a jury of his peers, as evidenced by this support. Drop the charges and let this man and his family get on with their lives.

  • Sally in England Crawley, England
    March 22, 2011 10:52 a.m.

    Bears Fan: how rude.

    you should care. What if a student didn't like the way a teacher was shouting at him and he pushed the teacher up against the wall, what would people say then? This is 2011, we need to behave in a civilised way. What message does this teacher give to everyone else, it's O.K to act aggressively to others if you don't like what they say or how they say it? This sort of backchat happens everyday in classrooms all over the world, what would happen if we all lost our temper and threw students up against the wall? THere would chaos. It is an appalling way to behave. He may be a good teacher, but he needs to go, just as a student would if they behaved this way. What are you saying, it's alright for Mr. Whoever to behave like this because we like him, however we don't like Mr Whatever so he can't? We lead by example.

  • Conservative Cedar City, UT
    March 22, 2011 10:52 a.m.

    What would happen if a big student grabbed a teacher by the shirt and pushed her against the wall? Would it be assault? Would he be charged? Would he be evicted from school?

  • yankees27 Heber, Utah
    March 22, 2011 10:52 a.m.

    53A-11-802. Prohibition of corporal punishment -- Use of reasonable and necessary physical restraint or force.
    (1) A school employee may not inflict or cause the infliction of corporal punishment upon a child who is receiving services from the school, unless written permission has been given by the student's parent or guardian to do so.
    (2) This section does not prohibit the use of reasonable and necessary physical restraint or force in self defense or otherwise appropriate to the circumstances to:
    (a) obtain possession of a weapon or other dangerous object in the possession or under the control of a child;
    (b) protect the child or another person from physical injury;
    (c) remove from a situation a child who is violent or disruptive; or
    (d) protect property from being damaged.

    There is a little more to the code, you can look it up. But, I believe that (2), b,c,d all apply here. The student is out of control, the coach couldn't tell what was coming next with him, so he acted accordingly, and guess what? The situation was under control in mere seconds.

    SallyEngland, teach by example? So that's where the soccer Hooligans came from?

  • DC Fan Layton, UT
    March 22, 2011 12:00 p.m.

    @Sally in England,

    Bear's Fan is right, who really cares what England thinks, they and the rest of the world are born followers and we need to lead out on his too! One of our own in Heber Utah, England who? Come on now.

  • joseywales Park City, UT
    March 22, 2011 12:09 p.m.

    anoninfinity; so you've never heard of the 1st Amendment? well, in US Supreme Court case Tinker vs. DesMoines School District, the court said, "students don't shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech and expression at the school house gates" That said, I honor the students for protesting peacefully OFF school grounds, and then returning to school. A great civics lesson in my opinion.

    SallyinEngland, I actually agree with the BearsFan, we don't have to do things here like you guys do there anymore. We took care of that in the American Revolution! We stood up to England's oppression and tyranny and now we have rights and freedoms that many others only wished they had. If you want to keep putting up with disruptive pupils like you said, then go for it! I agree with Yankees, you guys have many bombings a year, high crime rates, Hooligans at your sporting events! Certainly sounds like that hands off policy is working great over there! Keep it up!

  • Sally in England Crawley, England
    March 22, 2011 12:13 p.m.

    Of course there are football hooligans in England, however the problem is a lot better than it was 30 years ago when there was physical punishment in schools. I have 3 children myself, I can honestly say that my husband and I never use any physical violence on them, they have never been hit and rarely shouted at, we were not the perfect parents, but we tried to sort everything out with discussion and compromise. They have all grown up to be responsible citizens. They were never rude at school and never in any kind of serious trouble. My eldest son is a teacher himself. We have always tried to model the behaviour we expect. You shout at a child and they wiil learn to shout back, you hit a child or a young person and they will hit others. As professional people, we should model the behaviour we want. There is no place for violence in the classrom.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    March 22, 2011 12:40 p.m.

    this is so dumb. Why is this coach even being charged? In the old days the parents and the coach would just meet and sort things out... no big deal. These days everything ends up in a law suit.

  • Jazzguru Provo, UT
    March 22, 2011 12:42 p.m.

    We love and support you Coach North! God Bless you. I hope this does not get even further out of hand on the punishment side of things. I hope you get through this with a positive outcome and all involved learn from the situation.

    -Robbie Farr

  • Sally in England Crawley, England
    March 22, 2011 12:52 p.m.

    joseywales: well as long as you are open minded and can take another persons opinion that is the main thing. I don't think that you need to be so rude about England, were we not the ones who supported you in your pointless war? Hum..... you cared about our opinion then.

  • Bears Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    March 22, 2011 1:35 p.m.

    Sally in England... For a teacher who teaches by example... You sure spend a lot of time BLOGGING on the internet during class time...

  • get'er done Layton, UT
    March 22, 2011 1:57 p.m.

    Sally, (from over there)

    please, no more help, we'll deal with this one.. I think we saved your butts a few times and yes you were behind us, way behind. Now we'll lead out on this one too, and you can be there to support us. We do things different here have for some 200 years, we cut the cord and are doing fine mommy, so please let it go. We really can handle this, just wait and see. The young man needs to respect his elders, we teach that and when it doesn't happen we support the grown-up.

  • CDog Somewhere, USA
    March 22, 2011 3:18 p.m.

    This is Coach Christiansen in Morgan. I don't know the student, or care to from what I hear. I do however know Coach North very well and respect him more than any other coach that I coach against. I teach sixth grade at a middle school and am afraid that our society has become so "sue happy" that if a student were to walk into a school with a weapon; that nobody could do anything about it. Heaven forbid you disarm or tackle a student with a weapon. You may get sued by the student's parents for abuse. What is being done to the student for the way that he acted? I don't want my children to hear those words in front of the whole class. It is not a case of maybe my child needs repremanded, but how can I fill my pockets from a school district. I would say the apple apparently doesn't fall far from the tree. Give the kid a hug or something.

  • Hoops Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    March 22, 2011 3:37 p.m.

    Sally, not to speak for the others that have already posted, but my own reaction to those comments is to wonder why you find it necessary to speak out about a man you don't know, and a situation you know nothing about other than what you've apparently read in a news story. I think this particular story speaks loud and clear that our students believe that Coach North is being unfairly prosecuted, and they're the ones who have to sit under his authority on a daily basis. They are in a much better position to make a judgment about his character and teaching ability than you are from across the pond, not to mention they are the ones who are already being impacted by his absence from the classroom. As a result, I think it's appropriate to give their opinion more weight than yours. While we certainly support the right to free speech in this great country of ours, we also have the freedom to disregard that speech when we think it's off base. I'm proud of Wasatch's students for standing up and trying to make a difference.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    March 22, 2011 4:38 p.m.

    Coach North is as innocent as the Wal-Mart employees disarming a shop lifter. It's a shame our justice system is losing common sense.

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    March 22, 2011 5:01 p.m.

    To Sally - I think most of us (most, apparently not all), don't hold your nationality against you. Your opinion certainly mirrors that of some people on this side of the pond, even some right here in Utah.

    The problem is that ideological purists such as yourself see the incident as hitting, abuse, throwing against the wall, criminal, violent, beating, etc., etc. That's horribly dishonest and embarrassingly overdramatic. For one incident, wherein NO ONE was remotely injured, you think the Coach should be banished from educational halls for life despite a lifetime of stellar public service in an often very frustrating setting. What a pile of smelly feces.

    It's in the same vein of insanity as zero tolerance policies that result in a kindergardner being suspended for bringing a tiny clear plastic squirt gun to school, and a model high schooler being suspended for having a butter knife in his car in the parking lot.

    A belligerent, constantly disruptive 17-year-old male got shoved against a wall???? Boo fricken Hoo!!!!!

    In the wise words of Kenny Rogers, sometimes ya gotta fight, when you're a man. And this was far from fighting, by any reasonable standard.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    March 22, 2011 5:33 p.m.

    Glad to see that there is a new generation that is willing to standup and be counted for normal and traditional values instead of jumping on a politically correct bandwagon of psyhcological minority hokus pokus and lawyer oriented highway robbery. A little out behind the barn discipline never hurt any kid...and it didn't cost anybody a lifetime of hard work either.

  • Charles History Tooele, UT
    March 22, 2011 6:17 p.m.

    Re: "Bears Fan" 12:13

    You speak like a true Utah Conservative, (very ignorant).

    I do not agree with "Sally in England" but I believe I know what a time Zone is. Do you?
    Also, in her post of of 12:13 she said her eldest son was a teacher, I must of missed when she said she was a teacher?

    But why would you a Utah conservative that believes ignorant is being bliss care about any facts. Just another chance to dig at those teachers that are trying to do a job.

    Sorry "Sally in England" for the ignorant masses in Utah. I do agree with your post of 12:52.

  • byufootballrocks Herndon, VA
    March 22, 2011 8:31 p.m.

    DeltaFoxtrot I disagree with your premise. As Ghandi said, "There are unjust laws." The idea that they would take this good teacher and put him in front a court for child abuse for something like this - that 30 years ago would have been seen as maintaining discipline with an unruly student - is patently absurd.

    And if the students who know him recognize the ridiculousness of it and want to show solidarity to the coach by walking out of class, more power to them. Sometimes it takes an action like this to get the attention of the "lawmakers" so they can begin to see that they have gone too far.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    March 23, 2011 1:19 a.m.

    At what age do we stop being a child? It seems a seventeen year could be a young adult. With the rude behavior, Mr North was simply defending himself. The "child abuse" title sent the wrong connotation.

  • SS Cedar City, Utah
    March 23, 2011 5:02 p.m.

    Sally-I think its pretty obvious in our country when physical discipline left the schools, so did respect! It can't just be a coinsidence.

  • WeberCatBasketballFan Midway, UT
    March 23, 2011 9:53 p.m.

    Cedar City: Well said, spot on!

  • Rock Calgary, Alberta
    March 24, 2011 3:11 a.m.

    Too many of you commenters have never been teachers. You have never tried to calmly get a disruptive student to stop out of control behavior. The teacher totally loses control of a classroom of 30 or more kids when one of them flies off the handle. Rudeness, entertainment, or whatever the motivation, the student needs to stop, or get out. Ssometimes they need to do it right NOW. The teacher was probably just trying to get the student out the door after being challenged and verbally abused. I've seen it happen many times.
    Who is the one going to be permitted to control the atmosphere in the classroom, a student or a teacher?