Watch these geniuses alter it slightly and call it good while you Auto-R voters
clap in agreement.
There will be a drive-by signing of the Citizens Petition to repeal HB477 from
9:00 a.m. to noon TOMORROW (Wednesday, March 23) in front of KSL broadcast house
in downtown Salt Lake City. Since the State doesn't want to recognize
electronic signatures, it might be best to sign the petition in person so that
they can't disallow your signature.
It's State Government That Scares Me!Stop organized crime.Re-elect
"(The governor) talks about process. This is not process," Waddoups
said. "There's no reason to rush this like that."From
watching this whole business about HB477 unfold, I didn't get the impression
that there was any other way to Legislate than to rush and hurry.
No problem the legislature will just blame it on teachers..
This ought to boost your confidence in your state government even more: much of
the government secrecy language in HB477 is included redundantly as a
"stowaway" in HB116, the guest worker bill. Yes that's right, it was
tacked on to HB116 at the last minute. Check it out for yourself: HB116 Third
Substitution (HB0116S03) Section 1 and Section 2, which is applicable not only
to matters pertaining to the guest worker bill, but to any legislation and any
legislator. No wonder the governor and Becky Lockhart are so willing to repeal
"Herbert said Monday a replacement for HB477 should align with three
principles: the public's right to know..."These people don't
get it do they? It's not about our "right" to know. It's about our
DEMAND to know. You see Governor and legislators, we need to remind over and
again. You're in public service for OUR benefit. I know you don't like to hear
this, but get it straight. We are YOUR BOSS. Sneak around and don't tell the
truth or do things behind our backs; we will find out and summarily fire you.
We used to be lackadaisical and ignorant in our duty to police you.
Not anymore. We are proactive and now watch your every move. Local and federal
government have proven time and again that if left alone, cannot be trusted to
do what is right enough of the time. Right now, we just don't trust you, but it
is your fault for listening too much to lobbyist and not enough to those that
elected you. Now, if we have to watch you like a hawk, so be it.We
DEMAND that you now be an open book.
There is a ground swell movement agaisnt the illegal amnesty so if you call a
special session you may as well nuke both of these bad pieces of legislation or
else the taxpayers can pay for another special session. However the second
special session may not be so forgiving.Try to get it right this
time, there are still thinking people out here who are interested in what you
Since he is trying to correct some mistakes maybe he should look at vetoing
HB116 also. What a circus.
Sen Waddoups says it cost about $30,000 for a special sessions. Sen. Waddoups
where was your concern about the millions for the extra illegals that will come
because of your support of 116? I wonder how many pockets Herbert is in? I know
of one for sure!
Everyone take note - it is apparent that the Utah Senate has not felt the same
pressure that the House and the governor have in the last couple of weeks. The
Senate is now saying that they will stop the repeal of 477 on Friday. Everyone,
everyone needs to contact their senator today and let them know that you are
counting on them to repeal 477 - better yet, you are counting on them to sponsor
the bill to repeal 477. We, the citizens, cannot relax now and think that this
fight for transparent government is over. Contact your senator and spread the
I'm getting a little encouraged by this thread. I predict in the next election,
every Republican legislature who voted for this bill, including the Governor,
will only garner 70% of the vote! Progress! There won't be an automatic 80% of
Utah voters who just hit the straight party button! It's too bad
things in Utah will never change, at least for the better. We were on the right
track with a more progressive leader like Huntsman, who wasn't just a puppet for
the Wimmers/Waddoups/Buttars in the Legislature, yet have taken a u-turn back
the other direction with the "leadership?" of Herbert. Just imagine if this bill had been passed by Democrats! The Republicans on
the board, and across the state, would be up in arms, gathering their pickforks
ready to march on the Capital building. Yet because this awful bill was passed
by Republicans, the typical conservative commentators to the board are in
It is time to repeal the guest worker program in Utah. You did not listen to the
people at all on that one guv.
Every existing legislator that is running for Buttars Senate district 10 seat
voted for GRAMA. Are you awake delegates?
Can you imagine the screaming and complaining by these same conservative
lawmakers if President Obama and Nancy Pelosi did the same thing?Everyone that voted (or signed) this bill should be kicked out!
It's great to see the outrage about HB 477, but you're crazy if you think the
solution is to replace these Republicans with Tea Party extremists. These guys
*already are* the Tea Party extremists. It's precisely their sense of
sanctimonious idealogical untouchability that makes them think they can pull off
this nonsense.Who were the pols that opposed HB 477 from the get-go?
Yup. The Democrats.
There are more than a few education bills that need "tweaking" as
Post the comments D-News, quit the bias please!
At this point it is painfully obvious that: 1) the governor and a majority of
the legislature got their vote on HB477 completely wrong, 2) they did not
represent the people, who were against this bill, 3) they are now trying to save
their jobs. Look, serving in government is a privilege that most
often should be short term. Too many politicians think they are smart,
powerful, and only they can run government. It is not a bad thing to have
turnover in the legislature and governor's office.Most of our
legislators, and our governor, completely misjudged this. They are obviously
out of touch with the people of Utah. It will be a good thing for them, and for
us, to send them home and get a new bunch to represent us.I am with
many others who will vote against incumbents in the legislature and the
Chickenchaser wrote:'And better news is that the U.S. Supreme Court has
ruled that banks cannot hide financial transactions subsequent to Obama's sleazy
bailouts.' - WHAT? TARP was a George W. Bush program, signed
before the 2008 Presidential elections.We're not that stupid.
We're tired of Utahns making stuff up, lying, trying to be "patriots",
mis-stating the Constitution -- and voting (R) by (R)ote.
@PeanutGalleryYou say "It seems wrong that their email,
voicemail, text messages, etc., should all be presumed public records."Why?IF those communications are via a taxpayer-supplied
phone, computer, internet access -- they belong to US!If they want
to keep their privacy, then don't misuse the resources provided by the
taxpayers. Certainly, they can use their own.In fact, if they ARE
truly part-time, then they should only have access for that part-time they are
I agree with most of you about regarding 477, however there must also be a limit
as to what and where the media may walk. The media just to inform some of you
that apparently don't know are another very "big business" that has
their own selfish interests in all of this law. The downfall of this country and
economy can be placed right at the very feet of numerous big businesses like
media, energy(oil), wall street, banks, insurance, pharmaceutical Co's, lawyers,
and crooked on the take politcians, ect. We need to be informed of our elected
representatives bills, voting, backgrounds and such but at the same time be
careful of giving full rein to broadcast and print media. Just look how the
media robs advertisors and in truth we the citizens with their sleezy half truth
reporting all to stir the pot and bring attention to daily news so they can get
viewership up and thus more money from advertising with their teasing,
sensationalism, spin and hyping. Hold all of their feet to the fire voters, and
don't trust any of them!
In an effort to make "governing" easier - The legislators have now
created a nightmare for themselves. Instead of being "watched" they
now find themselves under a microscope. Anytime you have to do something in
corner in a fast track way you should take pause - chances are it doesn't meet
any test honest open and transparent government.
Oh my!! The DN moderator is really thin-skinned tonight.Oh, we must
play nice with anything to do with those ill-guided politicians for fear that
the PC police will come and get us!So I will play nice and just
remind people not to EVER, EVER forget what your elected officials tried to do
to take away your freedoms.Isn't it funny to see them tripping over
each other in their haste to back-track away from that terrible HB477!!! Too
late, people, because we will not forget.Next election that they
stand for:Gov. Herbert----goneSenate Speaker
Waddoups----goneHouse Speaker Lockhart----goneWe don't need
people leading this state that think they know better than anyone else what is
best for us. What IS best for us is to get rid of them at the next available
election.All of the above came up with the most lame excuses and
explanations that I have ever heard. I would not accept those excuses and
explantions from a 5 year old!!
Major, major, major egg on every Republican face!And rightly so.Have any idea what these elected lawmakers talked about in their 3-hour
meeting?I'll tell ya, "How are we going to get our voters
back?"Well, Guv, and all the rest of you, ya ain't got mine!No matter how much face-saving you try to do!!!
Most of these comments are hateful and mean-spirited. The man is
trying to correct a wrong. Have you ever tried to correct an error that you
wanted to change in your life or are you so perfect? Put away the guilotine and
start acting civil!
They also need to repeal these other bills that promote government secrecy by
denying GRAMA requests: HB 84HB 116HB 185SB 85SB 314It shouldn't just be about HB 477.
Herbert signed HB 477 into law with the caveat that there would be more time for
discussion. Does this make sense to anyone? That is like signing a divorce
agreement with the expectations or hope, but no legal requirement, to alter the
details of the divorce at a later time. Nobody in their right minds would do
this, yet the legislature and the governor did just that with HB 477.
"This is not process," (Senate President Michael) Waddoups said.
"There's no reason to rush this like that."Yeah, I mean,
it's not like you guys, ya know, rushed through the law in the first place.We should definitely take a much more cautious approach to repealing
it...*sigh*Utahns, please please PLEASE come election
time remember how "your" legislators, particularly the Republicans,
treat and regard you with disdain and derision.
'And better news is that the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that banks cannot hide
financial transactions subsequent to Obama's sleazy bailouts.' - Chickenchaser |
5:06 p.m. You mean the Wall Street bailouts? The ones
that cost the taxpayer $700 billion dollars? The one that George W.
Bush signed on 10/04/2008?? *'Bailout is law' - By Jeanne Sahadi -
CNN Money - 10/04/08 'President Bush signs historic $700 billion plan
aimed at stemming credit crisis.' Wow. Blame Obama for the wall
street bailout that Bush signed? Maybe you should stop watching Faux
News now and get the facts CORRECT.
Waddoups says, "There's no reason to rush this like that."I wonder if he could explain the reason for rushing to pass the bill in the
"We will not accept doing nothing on GRAMA," House Majority Leader
Brad Dee said.It sounds to me like we need a new House Majority Leader.Supposedly, part of passing HB477 was to cut costs, by not spending
taxpayer money to make public records available. Well, $30,000 is being spent
in one day to call a special session about HB477. Doesn't sound very frugal to
While you are at it how about a veto or a repeal of HB116. Really do what the
Mr. Brad Dee. Your tone simply exemplifies the entire problem. Based on the
numbers I'm aware of, your constituency is overwhelmingly against you doing much
of anything to GRAMA.
And better news is that the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that banks cannot hide
financial transactions subsequent to Obama's sleazy bailouts
@benlistening - others who belong on that list (especially if you're in Cedar
City) are Reps Evan Vickers and Mike Noel, and Sen Dennis Stowell. Noel had the
sense to vote against it the second time, but Vickers voted for 477 both times -
then called for its repeal a week later.
HB477 was a badly drafted, badly written, badly presented bill with good
intentions and should be repealed. It violated Amendment IV of the constitution
which guarantees the people (including legislators) to be "secure in their
persons, houses, papers, and effects . . . ." etc. This is an inalienable
right, legislators have the right to expect that their private conversations
(including texts and emails) will remain private until you figure out a way to
insure that their electronic communications should inviolate. Perhaps the real
answer is government issued cell phones and laptops that are government property
and not subject to Amendment IV on which all legislative business MUST be
discussed on with heavy financial penalties for discussions on private
electronics (if and when discovered).Now Mr. Governor, how about
something that has a more direct impact on the people of Utah . . . . Repeal HB
116 and the eviction of illegal aliens from our state which has potential of
$450 million in savings.
I would propose that the Legislative Branch allowed the media to control the
public debate, simply because our representatives refused to participate in the
discussion. I dont want my representatives to do anything that would affect my
Federal and State governments without there being a very public and formal
debate. There wasnt one. The way this has developed could easily be compared
to the sign and fix mentality of the Federal Healthcare. In my
opinion, the greatness in our county isnt that we make the "right"
decisions, but that the State and Federal Constitutions require that competing
interests are injected into the debate and are represented. A lively debate is
more important than the outcome. Overall, more right decisions are
Governor Herbert lost my vote when he signed this. Should have vetoed it
outright. Our legislators are a bunch of snooty know it all's and this never
should have reached his desk, but it did and he should have rejected it. The
public was clearly outraged.I will vote for someone else next
I'm glad there are lots of angry people who see through the politicking of the
governor. I miss a good leader like Jon Huntsman who wasn't just a republican
puppet but had his own ideas and values and pushed away from the legislature. I
guarantee he would have vetoied this faster than you can say "Repeal."
But alas as others point out, two things will happen now: 1. this is first of
all a ploy to get people to stop supporting the repeal drive. They will act like
they are repealing the bill in a legislature session and either not do it or
just repeal one or two things and hope the referendum drive stops, and 2. even
if it just remained as is, you would still have over 50% of the public vote
straight republican tickets and elect the same people back into office. If the
legislature didn't know that already, why would they have even passed such a
terrible piece of legislation?
Why on earth did you sign it in the first place, Governor. That loss of public
confidence extends to you! I wish you had the courage of Rep. Powell and had
recognized the bill, and the process by which it was passed, as unethical.
Is there any part of HB 477 that deserves to be preserved? If private
communications are already protected by current GRAMA law and if agencies
already able to charge for the larger requests, what's wrong with it as it is?
Perhaps we should go the other way and not allow the Republican
caucus to deliberate privately when there are enough of them present to
constitute a majority of the entire House. Any time that happens they become
the de facto legislature and can make all their decisions in private, as they
obviously have already been doing. Don't just repeal HB 477, put it in reverse
and remove existing secrecy.
Then why did he sign it?!??!?!?!
This is why I will always be an independent, both sides are only in it for
themselves and they no longer serve the people only their career aspirations.
Governor, a True Leader would have vetoed this bill, despite it being veto
proof. A True Leader would have said this is wrong and challenged the
legislature to override his veto. Then the public's wrath would have been
solely placed on the legislature. No this wrath is also directed at you. You
must suffer the consequences, and that may be that you not make through the next
convention.Every single legislator who wrote this bill, supported it
or voted for it, regardless of pressure put on them should be voted out during
the next convention and if they make it through the convention the voters should
step in again and vote them out. George Washington said it so well
in his final adddress upon leaving the Presidency. "When party wins, the
people lose." These legislators are more interested in keeping their party
positions and power and are not really interested in the people. They speak
with their lips, but there hearts are far from us.
BAGHDAD, Iraq With U.S. tanks rolling into central Baghdad, Iraq's information
minister denied in a rooftop news conference Monday that the Americans were in
the city, declaring: "Be assured Baghdad is safe, secure and
great.""They are sick in their minds. They say they
brought 65 tanks into center of city. I say to you this talk is not true. This
is part of their sick mind," Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf said. "There is
no presence of American infidels in the city of Baghdad at all."======================= I love watching guys uber-conservatives
like Mike Richards, RedShirt, PeanutGallery, KM....etc. STILL trying to defend
HB477.It reminds me of Saddam Hussein's Minister of Information,
Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf.It's not so bad.You didn't even read
it.You're over-blowing all out of proportion.the Liberals this, the "drive by Liberal media" that, Just Man-up, admit
you're wrong, and that your extremeist ideology is out of touch with the
majority of the State (including Republicans).orcontinue
to look silly trying to defend it.....
Herbie went to the Obama school of leadership: Lead by following.
@ PeanutGallery:"It seems wrong that their email, voicemail,
text messages, etc., should all be presumed public records."It
is our business if they are conducting public business or their communication is
on a Blackberry provided to them at taxpayers' expense.
When I read the full statement from the Governor: "I expect all
stakeholders to engage as honest brokers in good faith-putting aside personal
bias and cynicism-for deliberative, open discussion. The media has committed to
finding the right outcome. The Legislature has committed to the same. I expect
the public to engage and protect their rights." He forgot
already he wasn't open with us in his process. He said he had concerns about the
bill and then signed it almost immediately. He has a lot of bills he hasn't
signed. He considered a veto why did he sign it immediately. Where was his
deliberation? It was "limited" also as he chose to make everything
private and not public in relation to the State, County, City, School and other
governmental agency process in Utah. He does not have my confidence as the
Governor. The black hole award continues, even in this statement as he does not
trust citizens to be a valid part of the process. Just because some of us
believe in open and frank discussion does not mean that we are cynical and have
"PeanutGallery | 12:59 p.m. March 21, 2011 Salt Lake City, UTConcern about 477 is way overblown, and much of the media coverage has been
very biased. It's basically a good bill (but maybe it could use a few tweaks for
clarification)."The Communist Party in China would LOVE you as
a subject er citizen.
The Utah GOP is heading in the wrong direction.First the attempt to put
tax on food in the middle of a recession.Then the importing of low-skilled
workers into a weak economy.Plus legalizing others who are here
already.And then you hide the work of the people through GRAMA.Which
of those actions reflects the will of the conservative Utahns? None of the
above.Remember Bob Bennett?
PeanutGallery:Well, it's the media's job to be biased about
legislation that restricts the media's access to public documents. Public
information belongs to the people, not legislators.There are already
procedures in place to protect private information contained in public
communications. A transcript of a GRAMA-requested voicemail, for example, would
have any non-public, non-pertinent information blacked out. If you start
protecting certain kinds of communication from public scrutiny, you're simply
inviting corrupt practices to gravitate towards those kinds of communication.And the process didn't "seem" rushed to the public. It *was*
rushed, deliberately, to avoid scrutiny. We're not just talking about "bad
optics" or bad PR here. We're talking about a bad, bad bill. It wasn't the
way it was done that was the problem, it was the bill itself. The Republican
leadership new this. That's why they tried to push it through before it, as they
described it, "festered."Likewise, all these fake
apologies from the Governor and legislatures are infuriating. They're not saying
"I'm sorry I supported this bill," they're saying "I'm sorry I
The Spectrum stated that they will remind us before the elections, who voted for
HB477. I already have my list, and will remember to remind all of my friends
and neighbors to VOTE AGAINST Representative David Clark (R), Senator Urquhart
(R), Washington County, and Gov. Herbert (R). Enough is enough.
'@ Pagan - you are so out of touch.' - Hey It's Me | 12:36 p.m.
Maybe. But at least I know what the topic is instead of resorting to adhominem
attacks. Perhaps if we could talk about the bill like adults,
instead of trying to distract from the subject? Or is that too much
Flip-flop, flip-flop, flip-flop...Ladies and gentlemen, I believe we
have a flip-flopper!
Concern about 477 is way overblown, and much of the media coverage has been very
biased. It's basically a good bill (but maybe it could use a few tweaks for
clarification).We have a part-time legislature, and for 10-1/2
months of the year they work regular jobs. It seems wrong that their email,
voicemail, text messages, etc., should all be presumed public records. 477
seeks to bring some reasonable boundaries into the issue, especially with the
greatly expanded use of newer communication technologies.I don't
think there was any nefarious intent with 477. The main problem, as I see it,
is perception: the legislature should have considered that this issue would be
important to the public, so they should have brought the bill forward a lot
sooner. Then the process wouldn't have seemed so rushed, and there would have
been more time for public input. They probably still would have ended with a
bill that was very similar to the current version, but the public perception
would have been much less negative.
@ Pagan - you are so out of touch.
Why not create a law that takes all those old and new public record documents
and create electronic copies of the all. Give someone a job, and make it a lot
less expensive to comply to a request for records?
BEWARE! Herbert's intent is to take the air out of the sails of the Citizens'
Initiative to Repeal HB477. I saw this kind of thing happen with the PetCoke
plant in Woods Cross/West Bountiful a couple years ago. The citizens were
organized in an effort against the extra pollution this plant would bring. Rep.
Roger Barrus said that if they would call off the dogs, he would put forth a
bill in their behalf. The bill was lame and watered down and didn't go
anywhere, but he succeeded in making the people think he would represent them
and took the wind out of their sails. If the governor claims he is planning to
repeal HB477 "soon," then no one will feel the urgency to support a
petition drive and those who favor closed government will win.
If only we could harness all this Republican backpedaling as a source of
public confidence? ..Governor, you have lost my vote over HB 116....enjoy your
Why wouldn't Herbert think he could get away with this bill? You (R)epublicans
voted for him after the 13 Million $ payout to the contractor. All he had to do
was run with an R by his name and now the R lawmakers feel ENTITLED to hide
their legislative business under the disguise of "protecting
children"Guess what, you Republicans will do it again because
they know you would never vote for anything that doesn't have the auto R next to
it.After this blows over the alleged anti big government Republicans
will add more bills adding more government and taking away your rights. The
state will just keep voting R.
Dear Governor, Oops again...just not a good political move, you need some new
advisors, they ones you have just aren't cutting it. You see, this blunder just
might cost you your job...just who is pushing your buttons?
Repeal HB477. Period.
Dear Guv. Too Little to late, you could have been a hero with a veto. Watch as
the rest of the Republicans crawl out from under the hb477 rock. Those looking
at the new fourth Congressional seat will be the first out.
Flip flop? First, he votes it into law. Now, he
'supports' repealing it. This is what you get when the enitre state
only votes for one party. You deserve what you get Utah.
Now he needs to urge the repeal of the guest worker program. He must have liked
the bill to sign it, or did he sign it to find out what was in it, following the
leadership of Pelosi?
First he was for it, now that he knows what's in it, he's against it. Time for
mandatory term limits and no retirement freebies for legislators and Governors
of Utah. This back-door cabal of sneakiness is what is so frustrating about the
Utah "culture". Too many seem to think being honest and forthright is
not important at all. Our state(and Federal) elected representatives SHOULD have
character and integrity, instead we get back-room deals, campaign donors who get
awarded huge contracts, legislators frolicking with minors, legislators thinking
they are above the law and religious interference in the work of the people.
Even the people of Utah County sheeple that they are deserve better than those
who have been selected by the "caucus" (crony corp) to run for
office.Time to end the caucus plan for a plan of salvation to save this state
before it's too late, and we become the Western version of Illinois.
If Governor Herbert TRULY didn't like the bill and felt it was veto proof, he
would have let it go into law WITHOUT signing it. He's playing games with
us now thinking we are stupid.Governor Herbert and the Legislature have no
respect for you or me. For them this is a huge power trip and they
"were" loving it till they stepped too far.I wish the press
would pay as much attention to what the Legislature is doing to education as
they are HB 477.
Gov you better get some butter and syrup for that big waffle you just cooked up.
I voted for Herbert but I won't again. Yes, I will. No, I won't. Yes, I will.
No, I won't. Yes, I will. NO, I WON'T!
It would be nice if the law was repealed, but I still don't trust any of them.
For all we know, the Governor and the Legislature are hoping that the public's
outrage will now be tamed and the public will back off of their petition drive
expecting the law to be repealed, and then in turn our elected officials will do
nothing about repealing 477 and come July 1st it will go into law as is now. I
don't trust them. Everyone should still do all they can to sign the petition
and to gather more signatures.
You already made the mistake and have shown your true colors Governor. Calling
for a repeal at this point won't help you regain any semblance of public
confidence. Your lack of leadership is disturbing. This legislative
session has been a complete failure with bills such as HB477 supporting self
interest and HB116 supporting special interest. We know where you and the
legislatures loyalties lie and no effort on your part to back peddle is going to
Repeal those amnesty bills too! Let's keep the pressure on them.
Lets do the same thing at the federal level with Obamacare.
Governor Herbert, or should I call you The Republican Legislature's pool dude,
DO NOT replace this bill with anything similar or sneaky.
Is he really advocating "repeal" or just planning to "amend"
HB477 still? When he uses the word "reconsider," it still sounds
pretty wishy-washy to me. I hope this isn't just a ploy to get the public to be
lulled into thinking everything will be okay and then they still go ahead with
previous plans when they think no one is watching anymore. This seems to be a
slippery bunch of politicians we are dealing with here.
Duh Governor Herbert! Why didn't you realize that before you signed the bill?
Don't bother. The citizens we'll handle it while we show that we're a democracy.
Gov Herbert and the Legislature need to listen up, the people have spoken, we
want GRAMA back, just as it was before they rammed HB477 down our throats.
Yes, the existing GRAMA law already exempted personal communications. Yet, even
last week I spoke with a key senior member of the Legislature who strongly
supported HB477. His number one reason? Because he didn't want his personal
communications subjected to records requests. Proof that these guys often don't
even read the laws they try to amend, let alone the new bills proposed. It's all
largely based on unfounded rhetoric and ideology. Great use of precious state
resources, guys! I would propose a bill that 'considering the collateral damage
these guys routinely inflict upon Utahns and our state image, we simply
eliminate the Utah Legislature until we actually see 50/50 R/D split."
How does this guy get Re-Elected? Seriously? Was the $13,000,000 pay out not
enough to maybe consider another candidate? We can all count on
another three and a half years of this kind of leadership.
Good Move! I wish the Governor had not played politics with this one. He could
have avoided a whole lot of bad press, ill-will and embarrassment by not signing
this bill.Transparency in government is right and good. There is a
cost to doing the people's business. The price of such openness is worth it. It
is needed so those who choose to become fully informed, as well as those who
manipulate popular opinion, can both have the facts. With such openness the
fully informed can see the facts in spite of and in the light of the
manipulation and game-playing of politics, and the line between good and evil
becomes all the more clear. Utahns are not a bunch of doofusses
that marketers and pollsters and party politics can manipulate at will.
Thankfully, there are still enough people in Utah who know the difference
between good and evil and support goodness when they see it. We want such
openness in government. Next time the Governor needs to check his good vs evil
meter instead of marketers, pollsters and politicking to make good leadership
The wind is blowing, and as usual Gary is as resolute as a Kleenex.
The article states that lawmakers conversations with constituents are already
protected. So if that was the purpose then there was no reason for HB477. I am
not sure that conversations with constituents should be protected as it provides
an avenue for constituents who are also heavy contributors to receive special
attention which I think is wrong. Which begets the question as to when do heavy
contributers who are also constituents receive the privacy protection already
provided to them as constituents and when should they not receive this
protection? I think they should lose this protection when they are heavy
contributors. What is a heavy contributor one who contributes more than the
amount of the lowest contributor that legislator has in his pool of
A day late, a dollar short. Should have vetoed the bill when it first came
through. Show some backbone.
Pathetic. At least have the guts to stand up for, and behind, the bill your
party snuck through the back door at the last minute to avoid public outcry.
And in the end, this matters not. Utahn's will still step in the
voting booth, select the R - Straight Party option, and every Legislature who
voted for this bill in the first place will skate to re-election. Just the way
politics in Utah work.Can you imagine if this bill in Utah had been
drafted, supported, approved, voted for, and signed off on by Democrats? The
only word you would be hearing was "IMPEACH."
Now just reconsider your other failure (granting amnesty to illegals).
Nearly the last one to jump on the bandwagon. Now that's leadership.
Too little and too late, Governor. You had the chance to veto and instead signed
a bill you now say should be repealed. Diagnosis: Failure to lead.
I hope the Governor has a good orthopedic surgeon. He must be getting whiplash
from the about-face.
"Veto-proof margins"? If he didn't like the bill he shouldn't have
signed it, period. I wish he hadn't. So he signs the thing and now calls for
repeal? Come on Gov. Leaders are supposed to stand up for what they
(supposedly) believe in and do what's right, "veto-proof margins" or
Herbert and every legislator who voted for this deserves to be ousted from
office, regardless of the potential repeal. They wnated, they voted for or
signed it and once the people spoke out, they changed their minds. If they were
really representing the people, it never would have made it out of committee.
Utah's one ideology government is asinine.
This just shows that Herbert is out-of-touch. While the initial vote was
veto-proof, the amended bill wasn't close to that. Plus, he had received plenty
of public input against this bill. All he had to do was veto the bill which
would have strengthened is public support and focused voter wrath on the
legislature, if they attempted to override the veto. Instead,
Herbert has a huge target on him going into next year's convention and will most
likely get the Cannon/Bennett treatment.