If I thought ALL our foreign freeloaders and criminals would relocate to Utah,
and Utah wouldn't receive federal funding for their welfare, free educations,
free health care, etc., I'd say, "Yipee!"
The federal government already has guest worker programs, H2-A and B, for
unskilled labor. The former is for unskilled seasonal agricultural labor (no
caps) and the latter for unskilled labor in other fields. Guess what?
Employers don't want to use these programs as long as they can get illegal
aliens for less and without any accountability. Illegal aliens don't like to
use them either. Why would they want a record of their presence here, and to
have to pay taxes?
For the last couple of years I've been thinking of moving out of the state; this
just seals the deal for me.
this bill will not stand... or Herbert will not stand in 2012 ... one or the
other ... maybe both will go down in flames. People simply will not stand for a
bill that grants amnesty to illegals. It doesn't matter how much window dressing
is applied to the bill to spin things - it is still an amnesty bill and it will
not stand. This isn't about being charitable - this is about being
constitutional and lawful and protecting the real citizens of Utah and the
United States. Herbert is walking on politically dangerous ground by toying with
amnesty and this single issue could be his undoing.
Utah has entered into an agreement with a foreign country in direct opposition
to its constitutional right to do so with Obama's blessing while Arizona gets
sued for defending national laws? This is surreal.
If the Legislature's attorneys says the programs are unconstitutional, here's an
idea: DON'T DO IT! How hard is that to understand? The Utah Republican Party
should take any mention of the Constitution out of their platform, because its
obvious they just don't care.Also, the article doesn't mention why
Bishop Burton was there. Does anyone know what he said?
Well, HB116 has been signed.The law that will never go into
effect.It's on record now for people to start planning toward for 2
years from now.Some current provisions are in direct opposition to
federal law. These require the federal government to change its laws before this
bill could go into effect. And if the federal government does change its laws,
then the legislature will have to adjust some of the language in the bill to
reflect whatever changes are made to the federal laws.If it were to
go into effect as it is, then many illegals would sign up for a guest worker
permit, only to have the federal government gain access to the list so that they
could deport these illegals more easily under federal guidelines.What a strange law.
This will cost the Governor his seat, unless the bills grant voting rights to
(sent thru email)Governor Herbert,Goodbye to 2012
re-election. HB 116 is abominable. How you even sign that bill is a poor excuse,
what with unemployment rate in the state of Utah. Signing the bill 116 indicates
you DO NOT care about the unemployment and underemployed in the state.It's your job as a governor to be COMPASSIONATE for the legal citizen and
resident who is unemployed or underemployed, rather than do a backroom deal with
the proponents for illegal aliens to hire and exploit, while depriving the
citizens and legal residents of the potential relief by mitigating unemployment
crisis related to the pandemic of illegal immigration.You will
expect to hear from the delegates who will remove you at Utah Republican
Convention, or face the loss at the voting poll.At least I made the
right choice in voting for Farley Anderson for Governor, because he was honest
and bullish on illegal immigration.You sold out, Governor Herbert.
You lack courage and foresight, not to mention callous towards the legal
people's plight of unemployment (especially among the disabled) here in Utah
Why wait UT for 2012? recall now and take the AG with him.
attentive,Have fun in Wisconsin or California or Arizona or wherever
it is you want to go. Herbert will survive because the Church Leaders, Mormon
and Catholic, support him. He has already counted the votes.
Bishop David Burton was their because the church supports the legislation. The
church is for compassion. Read 3 Nephi 11- 4 Nephi and read lds churches
responsiblity to our neighbors to the south.This is the reason
Bishop Burton was there.
I applaud the governor in this. I am tired of all the "this is
just amnesty" rhetoric. This is a solution. I don't agree with everything
in the bill, but its nice to see taht they were able to get something done. I will be voting for Governor Herbert come re-election time.
Herbert is done in my book. I will do everything in my power to ensure he does
not get re-elected.
Congratulations Utah citizens!You now get to provide free
healthcare, WIC, welfare, education, (and don't forget food bank), to 110,000
illegal aliens in Utah for at least another year!A BIG victory for
illegal trespassers and their unethical employers!
Thank you to some on this board. Good to know that there are some sensible
people in Utah who are for a solution! The mix of legislation allowing
Enforcement of the laws against criminals and those with criminal intents, and
allowing a guest-worker program for those who have the desire to work here with
appropriate, is a good mix. I applaud our leaders in Utah. It's
time states stood up and told the Feds how we want them to operate!
Regardless of what one may think of these two bills. Governor Herbert is to be
admired for doing what he belives is right given the threats he has recieved.Utah is lucky to have such a Governor of principal.(and now
I will add my own editorial) ... and wisdom
Sorry, Gary, if you fail to realize that illegal immigration is the most
important issue facing our state today, you should not be nominated for another
term as governor. I guess we need to post a Wanted ad in the
newspaper:Wanted: A truly conservative candidate who will enforce
the laws to protect our state from the invasion of illegal aliens. Apply to any
Republican convention delegate prior to March 2012 caucuses.
For those of us who agree with Governor Herbert, we need to vote in the
primaries, thats where he is vulnerable. Most Utahn's are in favor of the
immigration bills he signed. However those against plan to fight him in the
primaries.I for one will register to be a Republican so I can vote
for him there and dilute the tea party influence.
@ Cowboy Joe Thanks for the answer to my question. I'm also for compassion
towards illegal immigrants. But what about the Constitution? I know Church
leaders support that as well, and the Legislature's lawyers say this package of
bills has two unconstitutional programs.
"utesovertide" so you don't mind giving up your job to an illegal
trespasser I assume?Or are illegal trespassers o.k. only as long as
they take SOMEONE ELSE'S job?
Today is a day that will down in infamy !!!!!!!! My discuss with those that
supported this atrocity (HB 116)is enormous. I will do all in my power to
outseat the governor, Robles, Bramble and Wright! My disappontment with the
churches is also beyond words!
I am an active Mormon, serve on a High Council and I must say I am disappointed
with the Church's stand on this issue. I have a teen age daughter and a college
age daughter thinking of serving a mission who cannot find employment because
the market has been flooded with immigrants, legal and illegal, who have snapped
up everything available. Where is the aid to my children? I work in an
industry filled with illegal's, who have mastered the art of driving down wages
simultaneously leeching off the welfare system. Don't we have enough Utahn's to
take care of before we molly coddle everyone from Nayarit, Sinaloa, Chihuahua,
and Jalisco? Give me a break. Governor Herbert and the sponsors of this bill
will not be getting my vote next year.
Guess what- there is already a guess worker program. I do not see the federal
government giving us a "federal waiver" to provide workpermits to
illegal aliens when its the federal government has the authoritative power. The
governmental officials are out of their league when trying to resolve
immigration. why dont they try working and pushing the federal government when
its the federal problem and definately not a state problem. Oh by the
way-illegals do not get WIC or any state assistance only their USC children do.
So whoever things so needs to read the rules again. I work in immigration law
and see what happens on a first at hand basis. This law is a joke. The state
officials need to focus on state matters and push O'bama to get to work on the
immigration matters of this country.
In another report of today's bill signing, Bishop Burton was quoted as saying:
"...our presence here justifies the fact that we are appreciative of what
has happened in the Legislature this session."I would like to
know how Bishop Burton would reconcile the above statement -- presumably in
support of HB116 -- with the 12th Article of Faith, and with an official
statement released by the Church on November 11th, 2010, which reads, in part:
"We acknowledge that every nation has the right to enforce its
laws and secure its borders. All persons subject to a nations laws are
accountable for their acts in relation to them."Fair enough,
I feel for this state I live in, the govermor is unable to do his job, the
churches have him and the lobbyist have him in thier pocket, this state needs to
pass a bill that enforces the seperation of church and state, and makes it
against the law for them to interfere with state government business, but until
then this state is doomed, this bill does nothing to deter illegals, this man
has no clue what he has done,and I hope he is recalled for this act.What
is the purpose of e-verify when you have guest worker, you have to have a social
security number to to verify. I guess those want a recall will have to get a
petion out to get the votes needed to recall the governor, and get this bill
floored as well, start writing yor state congressman today, or say hello to all
your new neighbors, and your home equity.
Oh, Utah, Utah....YOU have no idea what your Governor has done. I live in
Arizona and I can tell you.....this welcome mat will inevitably EXPLODE on your
state. If you believe that your LEO will be able to keep up with the
"criminal" element that is on it's way to your state....IT WILL NOT.
Arizona has special units JUST for the criminal element of illegal alien
human/drug smugglers and can't keep up...not even close. The costs and demands
that will be imposed on your state WILL overwhelm you. Not if, but when. And
thanks Governor for now encouraging even more illegal crossers into Arizona on
their way to Utah. The ONLY up side to this disgrace is that illegal aliens in
Arizona may now move to Utah....and good luck with that. Your are going to need
it like you have never imagined.
From the article: ""Doing nothing is not an option," Herbert
said"The brazenness of this red herring is appalling, even for
a politician. Somehting is worse than nothing when something represents giving
official approval to invasion, U.S. worker displacement, and wage
suppression.Herbert casts his decision as rebellion against business
as usual, when in fact it is the opposite: invaders are advantaged in the near
term (until their wages are driven down by the next wave of immigrants) and
their employers/exploiters are advantaged in the long term, benefiting from a
compliant, docile workforce who will remain so as long as they fear deportation.
I love this legislation. Thank you Governor Herbert for doing something positive
for Utah and sending a positive message to all states in America and to the
world.Americans support Free Trade with our brothers down south. We
know it is good for our economy and Mexico, Central and South America or else we
would fight to get rid of it. Free Trade means jobs for Americans everywhere and
a more robust economy.Parallel to Free Trade, an open door guest
worker policy to all of our brothers and sisters of Hispanic America to come to
the United States will certainly be just as effective as our Free Trade policy
has been. So kudos to Governor Herbert and to everyone in Utah that
supports Free Trade because I know that you will now welcome those coming here
with guest worker permits with open arms! I love you citizens of Utah!
Big Ben, good luck voting for Herbert. If the delegates have their way, he'll
never make it that far.
I already knew this was coming, what do we need to do now to impeach the
Governor and get this bill revoked? I already signed the petition to fight this
bill, what else can we do?
I hope this motivates Utah voters to identity quality candidates to replace the
members of the legislature who refuse to listen to constituents/delegates when
it comes to giving amnesty to illegals. From the Governor, Attorney General,
Senators and Legislators, there are plenty of people who need to be replaced.The only positive thing is maybe the crime rates in neighboring states
will go down as the illegals learn about Utah's sanctuary status and migrate
Fitness Freak,They're not illegal if they pay a fine and are given a
permit to be here. That is what HB116 does. If they don't register with us and
pay a fine, they'll run a greater risk of being deported. I call it
"documenting the undocumented".You and others on this
board are complaining about legislation that BOTH steps up enforcement AND
documents the workers. Waiting for an Enforcement only legislation is a
right-wing form of amnesty; it allows the illegals to remain here until the end
of time because that type of legislation will never be passed on its own.The fact is, the illegals are already here, already took the jobs you
are worried about, and already burden our governments... so, given that fact,
no, I am not worried about what market forces that are allowed to work will do
in regards to my job.
This is the best news all day. Great job Herbert, finally a solution to a
perplexing problem. Don't hate but be great!
"patriot | 12:43" wrote that the people will not stand for this. Some
may not, but many will. In fact a majority will likely support this type of
comprehensive solution, or amnesty, as many call it. We live in a
democratic republic. The legislature and governor have represented us. And I
believe they have represented the majority.Notice I haven't said
which side I support. It doesn't matter in the bigger picture. What matters is
that the representatives represent the majority.
This is legislation we can all live with. Everyone in Utah has emphatically
stated that this issue is about the LAW and not about RACE. I agree, this is
true. We should be grateful for this bill that we can now prove this out. Now,
people of other races can come here and work without breaking any laws. And we
can show them that as long as they are obeying the law, they are all welcome
There is ample proof in the public record that our current laws are constantly
abused and human trafficking is the result. Once our local, Made in USA crime
organizations have the kind of power we've been giving them for 20 years, they
go after our own children. This is only a small step, but we have to be ever
vigilant. I hope it works, but enforcement and inspection have to be high level
if it is to work. We see rebellions, wars and riots overseas, and
blame it on religion, ignorance, or Al Queda. We have got to see to business,
and quit using denial as our only coping mechanism or we will be facing a
breakdown in the facbric of our own society. "You hear of wars and rumors
of war in far places, and say, soon there will be wars in far places, but you
know not the hearts of men in your own land."
The end justifies the means.I thought we were better than that.
Governor and Legislature: You have done the right thing. It is what you were
elected to do. You listened to the majority and followed their wishes.There are many who do not like this legislation, but they are in the minority.
The VERY VOCAL minority.The less vocal majority want fairness, and
even compassion, in our treatment of each other. This includes out-of-staters,
immigrants, those that are different.This is what the LDS Church has
called for. Thanks you for listening!
@Johathan Eddy: You said, "people of other races can come here and work
without breaking any laws."You apparently didn't read the bill.
It specifically states that you HAVE to be breaking the law to apply for a work
permit. This bill is not for honest, law abiding people, it is for dishonest
people who have broken the law!And as soon as a law-breaking illegal
person signs up to get a worker permit, the federal authorities will have caught
up with such a person and immediately deport the person and his/her family. This
bill is all about hood-winking law-breaking non-Americans into declaring
themselves, so that the federal government can more easily deport them.
I will do all I can to remove those lawmakers that voted in favor of giving work
permits to illegal aliens, and to remove Herbert in 2012 or sooner. As for the
LDS church position on this issue, I will have a serious talk with my bishop
Passing the immigration bills was the right thing to do. For too long, no one
has done anything, and socially, legally, and financially the situation has just
gotten worse. I will be supporting Gov. Herbert and the legislators who voted
for this, even if the Federal government obstructs its success.
Well, after reading this and another story this morning about republicans crying
about this bill. I have to wonder, why did they pass it. This is Utah, home of
the Republican only club. Now the people need to get off there backsides and let
the Governor know this welcome mat for law breakers doesn't work for Law abiding
The Mormon contingent on these boards are extremely naive, to put it mildly. We
have opened ourselves Pandora's box. You may think you are being
"compassionate" to our illegal immigrants, but you have just played
into the hands of big business and their lap dogs, the politicians. Thank you
for taking my hard earned tax dollar and giving it to people who, by definition,
have broken the law and are not worthy of my assistance, especially when the
working poor of Utah could make much better use of it. The current resident of
the White House has already initiated a series of steps to take my money and
redistribute it to those who didn't work for it. Didn't think we'd be iditotic
enough to do the same.
The floodgates are about to open and we are going to be overrun thanks to our
Governor and his sellout on 116. Herbert is done, he may as well sign his
resignation. As a registered Republican and delegate I can tell you that I will
work overtime to get him recalled or booted in the next election. This is the
worst day in Utah history, it will change the state forever and not for the
better. The Utah TEA party said it best Gary, game on!! You are going out,
sooner rather than later. See if all your illegals can save you now.
Goodbye Herbert.....Welcome Governor Sandstrom~~
My neighbors are legal immigrants who spent many many years and a lot of blood,
sweat and tears and money to come here legally - - through the front door. I
would hafta side with them that these bills are a slap in their face. Where is
the compassion for them? ...and for the rest of us who grew up here not worrying
about our native language seeming more and more like a foreign language?
Hmmmm very interesting indeed. Not even sure if I could come up with an
intelligent argument for either side. This will be interesting to see what
happens in two years.
At least those who voted for this bill has showed us their hand. Maybe this is a
good thing. Lets clean up Capital Hill and vote those in who value our
Oh boy...where to begin. One can certainly find logic in a state enforcing laws
the Fed simply chooses not to, until such a time as the fed can make changes to
the Law on the books, it simply must be enforced. It is not Usurping anything
to simply prop up the Fed. Now, because the AG with the current
administration is a little confused about what his job is, we get some pretty
whacky messages out of DC. The Man is incompetent...not news to anyone.Bring in the gang in Salt Lake. You all could have simply put measures
in place to enforce the laws on the books. Nope...we will re-write the laws
because they aren't enforced. Uhm...so how are you better? You choose to
ignore standing law in a different way. That does not make you hero's, that
makes you co-conspirators with an administration that is headed for legal
problems.Mr. Governor, Mr. AG, just what vision for Utah could you
possibly have? Four Words for Ya...Supreme Court Beat DownAnbody
else see a trait here in these "Solution" bills and HB477...We are
Audacious here in Utah.
DN's scared to post this truth, and their moderator will block this truth. MY
VIEW. I am an active Mormon, serve the LDS Church well, for over 50 years, and
I must say I am disappointed with the Church's stand on this Utah flooded with
illegal immigrants issue. KSL ran the Hannity program just to annoy the
masses with his verbal abuse of those who didn't see things his way. Well, now
it appears that Utah has been "Hannitized" - the Utah voters are
becoming mindless masses who spend more time being "anti-everything"
than "pro-anything." I am sick and tired of the endless knocking down,
with an absolute lack of building up anything. Don't Utah have enough Utahn's
to take care of before they molly coddle everyone from Nayarit, Sinaloa,
Chihuahua, Mexico and Jalisco?. We acknowledge that every nation has the right
to enforce its laws and secure its borders. All persons subject to a nations
laws are accountable for their acts in relation to them. Perhaps the Tea Party
then needs to pass a bill that enforces the seperation of church and state.
Then demand that Utah's Governor Herbert step down.
@sjgf"You apparently didn't read the bill. It specifically
states that you HAVE to be breaking the law to apply for a work permit. This
bill is not for honest, law abiding people, it is for dishonest people who have
broken the law!And as soon as a law-breaking illegal person signs up
to get a worker permit, the federal authorities will have caught up with such a
person and immediately deport the person and his/her family. This bill is all
about hood-winking law-breaking non-Americans into declaring themselves, so that
the federal government can more easily deport them."I did read
the bill, both in letter and in spirit. You are angry because some fellow humans
are here without documentation, therefore are law breakers and you want them out
no matter the cost. I get that. I suggest we follow our elected Governor and
implement a more subtle, humanitarian compassionate approach. Let's allow the
new law to fix things so humans can live in compliance with the law and so
families can be together forever; here in Utah. Let's share. Let's be kind and
giving to all.
I am active LDS.I think that Bishop Burton was there on his own behalf and
not the church.That kind of statement would have to come from the First
Presidency.Bishop Burton have the right and agency to feel as he choose to
do so, as do I!I have often wondered at how the prophecy that the street
of Salt Lake will run with blood will happen, now I wonder no longer.I
scares me the the goverment is looking at this.. maybe this governor will go
down as not only selling out the citizens on the state of Utah but the whole US
if the federal goverment gets on board with this also.I use to love coming
to Salt Lake... not anymore! I will watch conference gladly now on TV and not be
wishing that I was there.I am soo... etc.. disappointed in this happening
that words cannot even begin to tell. I DON"T think he went with the wish
of the majority as some have posted, but I believe that he has turned his back
on the majority..and caved into the minority. He must be following the example
of our President.
For years we have heard it's unconstitutional for states to enforce the laws,
and court costs are an unfunded mandate. Hypocrites. Herbert is
gone. Open records, strip mines in central Utah, UDOT payoffs, HB116(a slap in
the face to Utahns, and a backstabbing to those here illegally who sign up)
HB469, a bill to provide servants for the rich. He's not going to get
re-elected. This state has lost compassion for the worker.
Taxation without representation. These fools are for foreign interests and are
not for the interest of U.S. citizens.
Maybe it's time for a real tea party. I am not paying taxes to support a guest
worker program for businessmen.
Well, here is the first step write the Governor a email. If the law abiding
people of Utah flood his in box, maybe he will get a clue. Please note I said
maybe. If you write him please keep it civil, but let your position be known.
Next step is to get a new Governor and State Congress, dump everyone who voted
for this mess, it is time Americans stood up for America.
Congratulation to Gov. Herbert for signing the bill. To all of you who hates
"illegals", I just want to ask you if american indian owners of all
the land there was, where ever ask if they wanted to live in a reservation? If
they were asked if they want your ancestors to come and abuse them and take
everything from them? Didn´t all your ancestor came from overseas wanting
freedom and opportunities? Lucky and blessed all of you who came first and took
by gun point what belong to others. There was a lawless nation so your ancestor
felt free to do what they did. BRAVO for them and all of you who thinks that
illegals get everything for free. God Bless Gov. Herbert for having the guts to
do the right thing.
I and my husband are state delegates and I pledge here and now to do all that we
can to out this worthless Governor that would put people that are not citizens
and NOT LEGALLY in this country above the well being of LEGAL citizens and legal
immigrants of the state. HB116 goes against Federal laws....and had a note
attached that it was not a constitutional law....why would this bill even see
the light of day let alone the signature of the governor? I feel sold out by my
Once again, this is not an ecclesiastical issue--it's a matter of national
security, national sovereignty, and national survival. Anyone who voted for or
signed legislation allowing or encouraging the transfer of taxpaid assets to
invaders of the country has no business being in a representative role for
anyone who actually pays taxes. This activity is a wake-up call to the people
of Utah, and actually serves as a revelation as to how much these people
actually serve those who voted for them. Last fall many Americans demonstrated
that they've indeed awakened somewhat regarding who sits in Congress. Now they
need to do the same thing to cleanse Capitol Hill in Utah. Sometimes people
don't realize how amazingly dangerous these people are until something really
meaningful hits the docket. This one is extremely meaningful, and it's clear
that the ball has been dropped big-time. Let's WAKE UP Utah, and move forward
to get some real representatives in office!
@leni10Look, I Know how "The West was Won"...some lessons
in there for everybody...But allowing unabashed immigration means we have no
nation...and no matter the ill done in the past, this Nation has made up for it
10 thousand times over in good will. Can't apologize to the Native Americans,
...it wouldn't be good enough, but I wasn't here when it happened, and I am here
now, and I see a nation and a way of life worth fighting for.
They say even the very elect will be deceieved in the last days......I would say
that based on this very public display on the part of the Bishop that he could
be percieved as a wolf in sheeps clothing amongst his own flock and those who
live here outside of the church membership....What kind of compassionate message
are we delivering to those who believe in honoring and sustaining the law when
we look the other way at those who come here illegally through the back
door....and what kind of message are we sending to the illegals who have to sell
their souls to come here even at the expense of coyotes, child molesters and
those who abandon men women and children in the middle ofthe desert for money!
It is truely a sad day in Mormon history today is......deplorable!
Dutchman: As your comment was directly at me - I couldn't care less if Herbert
has support or not. I WON'T BE HERE!
leni10, we have legal ways to immigrate here. Some of my family came from
Mexico, we honored the country by coming legally. HB116 has a
loophole that makes it toxic to those here illegally. Once they become guest
workers, they have to take jobs that Americans won't do, and be paid a fair
wage. People working construction will no longer be eligible, since Americans
work construction. So the guest workers will be looking for work that pays less,
or go home. A person would be foolish to sign up for it. Utah's
citizens can take the state to court anytime a company hires them for non
agriculture work. This is a glorified mess that was never thought
out. The greed of the business community just did them in. Herberts
gone. He will find out how big of a joke Dan Jones polls are.
We need a clarification, was Bishop Burton there representing the LDS church, or
as an individual supporting something he believes in?
Hooray for Gov. Herbert!! He has my support.
since when is it compassionate to support law breakers? There are thousands of
legal Hispanic imigrants in Utah who came into the state the right way - became
a legal citizen by following the rules and the law. For those who
"snuck" into the state illegally it is certainly not imcompassionate
of me to ask that you obey the law of the United States and go back to Mexico...
then make the effort to become a citizen the right way. I will welcome you to
the state if you do but to falsely suggest I should somehow open the door and
let you come in and grab all the free healthcare and education and jobs because
that shows I am compassionate.... I say NONSENSE!!! What about the thousands of
legal residents of UTah who don't get free healthcare or education and can't
find a job because companies will only hire illegals who will work for cheap?
Well let's just sort of ignore those poor folks. I will do EVERYTHING possible
to make sure Gary Herbert is NOT re-elected to governor in 2012!! Yes I am a
conservative , LDS too!!!
HB116 has a loophole that makes it toxic to those here illegally. Once they
become guest workers, they have to take jobs that Americans won't do, and be
paid a fair wage. People working construction will no longer be eligible, since
Americans work construction. So the guest workers will be looking for work that
pays less, or go home. A person would be foolish to sign up for it. Utah's citizens can take the state to court anytime a company hires them for
non agriculture work. This is a glorified mess that was never
thought out. The greed of the business community just did them in. Herberts gone.
Utah needs a "real" conservative governor like Jan Brewer of Arizona
who will pass a "real" immigration law that helps solve the real
problem of illegal immigration. Look at the stat's that show crime in Arizona
dropping since the passage of immigration law. The reason?? All the illegals are
leaving Arizona and coming to Utah..... and now more than ever thanks to
Herbert. The United States is a nation of law - I am surprised the LDS Church
supports these bills which encourage illegal immigration to our state. These
bills are wrong and Herbert will lose his job in 2012 because of it.
"Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and
ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and
ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure,
pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your
bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you
again...And why holdest thou the mote that is in thy brothers eye, but
perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" (Luke 6: 36-38, 41)I'm LDS and proud of it, and I have to say, based on what I'm hearing
from my brothers and sisters, there is much repentance that needs to take place.
This is the true church, and the fact is, the Gospel of Jesus Christ balances
between obeying the law and compassion. I support this law and feel sorry for
those who'd question their testimonies over being compassionate? Really? Look,
Tea Party thinking has nothing to do with the Gospel. Time to decide who you
follow? I follow Christ, what about you?
This "Utah Solution" is nothing more than political fluff that tries
(vainly) to have it both ways - i.e. being "compassionate" and
observing the law at the same time. It fails miserably in that attempt, as a
"man cannot serve two masters." (Gee, I wonder who said that?) Either
illegal immigration is against the law or it is not. If it is, than Utah CANNOT,
in any moral sense of the word, get around the problem by using compassionate
Christian teachings as cover. The LDS Church's "official stance" is
much better, and actually acknowledges that governments have a legal right and
obligation to maintain their borders, something the last few administrations
have failed miserably at. Nevertheless, it, too, is basically political fluff
designed more not to offend anyone than to offer any nitty-gritty guidance;
that's not the role of the church. Which is, after all, the proper stance to
take I think.
Anyone who says that they wouldn't break the immigration laws to save their
families from the poverty and corruption of our southern neighbors is either
lying or ignorant of the very real troubles immigrants face. Coming to this
country, legally or illegally, is not easy. In our rural area, migrant workers
are well respected and admired for their phenomenal work ethic and strong
families. There labor is needed and they need the work. I applaud those who
worked to find a solution that tempers justice with mercy. Kudos.
Let us all remember who did the signing, and when it comes time to vote for new
ideas, let us remember the Governor and his cronnie buddies and their caving in
to the wishes of Washington DC...This is an insult to american's both born and
raised, and to those who have gone thru the legal maze to become an american
citizen...WE WONT FORGET...NOT ON MY WATCH.
@milojthatchI totally respect your approach...I just wouldn't ever
vote for you. Don't get me wrong, you probably are of the fiber we could use in
office...But...I want elected officials who choose the well being of the
state/nation first and foremost...if, in doing that bidding, your faith guides
your hand such that you do that work in a legal and ethical manner...I would
thank God for you...however, we part ways my friend, when your faith overrides
the well being of the state/nation. That was NEVER the intent of the framers of
this nation. You also need to look at it this way...you CANNOT do
what you are suggesting. If you accept office, and allow public policy to be
guided by your faith, especially to the detriment of the State/Nation, you broke
a vow/Oath...You Lied. To avoid such a conflict (pesky Church and state thing),
the only honorable path is to ammend the constitution, or don't hold public
office...to do otherwise is intentionally misleading voters who assume you abide
by the rules, and thus not endearing you to God, I assure you.
Utah the Sanctuary State.Organized Crime is already established in
Utah. Migrant smuggling, Human Trafficking will now increase. Human
suffering and deaths will also increase. All with a false promise of
a job.Our Secure Strike Force is to underfunded and undermanned. It
will soon be overwhelmed.
From what's been done and subsequently commented on here, it's obvious that many
people are woefully naive when it comes to understanding what it takes to form
and maintain a nation. A nation without borders soon ceases to be a nation, and
that's what we see happening here. Not only that, but all the elements of the
welfare state dictate that we in fact have to subsidize and support the very
forces that are destined to be our eventual demise! I only wish some of those
who are so eager to give the state away could spend some time trying to surive
in a place like Southern California, where anarchy and chaos are now the rule
rather than the exception. Of course until they actually experience it, they'll
find a way to endorse those who almost never really act in the interest of their
own constituents. And then we wonder why we have so many problems.
HB 116 had nothing to do with compassion. Herbert blew it. I will work to remove
him and Shurtleff in the next election. The arrogance demonstrated by our
politicians in the Governors Mansion and the AGs office is just stunning.
If Canada had a financial and cultural crisis the size of the Mexico crisis, and
the Canadian exiles inundated the USA, I doubt -- seriously -- Utah would have
any moral issues in accepting the Canadians, legal or not. Would Utah's
legislature create a guest worker program for Alberta?The only real
difference between a legal alien and an illegal alien and a citizen of Utah is
governmental paper work. So the real question here is -- why are federal forms
so expensive and so complicated to get guest or guest worker status?
The American citizens are saying no to amnesty and Utah keeps shoving it in our
faces. Read our lips no amnesty, even the legitimate immigrants are saying that,
wake up and support your legal citizens we made you and our country.
@Midwest Mom:"Anyone who says that they wouldn't break the
immigration laws to save their families from the poverty and corruption of our
southern neighbors is either lying or ignorant of the very real troubles
immigrants face."Well, we can either have poverty of our
southern neighbors or poverty of our own people. The US currently has 15
million unemployed Americans and about that any illegals in this country taking
jobs. Would you rather have unemployed Americans or unemployed foreigners?"In our rural area, migrant workers are well respected and admired
for their phenomenal work ethic..."That's an interesting
comment. If these immigrants from our southern neighbor were so hard working
and ambitious they would stay home and use their work ethic to foster economic
growth there rather than spending their effort in moving out country forward.
Which isn't moving the us forward at all since we are spending billions in
unemployment benefits on our own unemployed... money we don't have but have to
borrow from China and elsewhere.
Mexico has a 5.5% unemployment rate, and the 12th best economy in the world.
They are not in crisis. American business is still moving there. And other than
Juarez, Mexico has a lower murder rate than New Orleans. This is a
well planned marketing ploy to keep the drivers privilege card, and kill the
requirement of E-verify for business to check illegal status. SB81 required all
business to use it, but Utah never enforced it, now it's gone. See how clever
they are? The Federal government is not going to write new labor and
immigration laws for Utah. It would open the doors for all states to pass and
use enforcement laws.
If the Bishop was there, the illegals plan to go to their Bishops and tell sad
stories so they could get amnesty is working. They said they would do so after
the amnesty bill failed. They are also using the same tactics on politicians and
it's gladly working for politicians who need their votes.Illegals
have no fear of getting aid if they are injured, they have no fear of reporting
crimes, they use these stories as points to get their way. Just look at
Medicaid, illegals on welfare and having babies by the millions. Does this look
like they are shy? In WA state they go door to door asking people to vote for
their politician so they can get amnesty.I don't know how much
political power Bishops carry, but, if the religious listen to pitiful stories
to play on their heartstrings, they are being used falsely. The faithful need to
realize they are abetting people who don't belong here and should stand up for
the love of their country not sad stories or people who came here to take
advantage of us and our forefathers.
This is an attempt to circumvent the laws of our country, by claiming we are
changing them. They know full well that the guest worker programs are run by the
federal government and already exist.
This is not about helping those here. It's an open door to anyone who moves here
in the next two months. Proof that it's not about helping illegal immigrants
here, but providing business with workers, at a time we face 7.5% unemployment.
What's wrong here.
There is another wrinkle to this issue. The 1986 amnesty solved nothing. It
was a temporary relief valve.Millions of people from the third world want
to come here. Pew estimates that 36 million Mexicans want to come here. Gallup
says 160 million world-wide would come here if they could.But this isn't
1986. Cell phones, the Internet and cheap air travel make the world even
smaller now. And our chain migration policies of the past have given increasing
numbers of illegal aliens a destination when they get here.So Gov
Herbert...how ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm?
How sad. How truly sad. The Founding Fathers have turned over in their
graves.Wish I lived in Utah so I could work to get Herbert and his
cronies thrown out of office.Why wait until elections? YOU, the
LEGAL CITIZENS, of Utah have the right to remove him from office now. Exercise
your right, if that is truly how you feel.
I wonder if Herbert will sue the DN for publishing a bogus poll on support for
amnesty after he fails to get out of the repub convention.Cjb,Herbert wont make it out of the convention, you wont be able to vote for him
in the primaryUtesovertide,They will still be illegal since
they will still be in violation of federal lawleni10,the
natives never claimed ownership of the land, such a concept is not in their
I walked outside my house this morning, and looked at the side of my barn.
Something looked out of place, then I realized that the 13 articles of faith
painted on the side had been changed to 12. There was an article of faith
missing. The day a man walked across the border illegally and lied
about it, started a chain of lying and compromised morals across the country.
If the churches are for compassion, then why are the cops in Utah throwing
everyone in jail for unpaid traffic violations?
I'm willing to wait and see what happens. Maybe the enforcement part will crack
down on employers and make it harder for illegals to be here while the guest
worker bill will give good people a way out of their predicament. I don't like
that someone here legally on a student visa cannot qualify for the guest worker
permit unless they let their visa expire, becoming illegal. I don't like that
people waiting to come legally will wonder why they didn't just come the illegal
way.But maybe this will spur the federal government to get to work.
I'm skeptical, but I think Gov. Herbert is a good governor. I agree with most
of what he has done. Perhaps this really will help. We'll see.
What about the 12th Article of Faith, Bishop Burton??And what about
the Church's official statement, issued November 11, 2010, which reads, in part:
"We acknowledge that every nation has the right to enforce its
laws and secure its borders. All persons subject to a nations laws are
accountable for their acts in relation to them."What of it,
Wonderful legislation. H.B. 116 reflects the values of Utahns. We support the
Utah Compact and we support elected officials who are willing to stand up to the
vocal minority to make sound policy. Excellent job legislature and governor.
We appreciate your courage. Just know that reasonable Utahns will stand by you
and won't let you get bullied by a small minority.
These Bills are not perfect but they are headed in the right direction. I am
proud of Gov. Herbert. He is a great American. I am proud to be from Utah. It is
good to see that most people can look at the issues and not be cloud by emotion
and irrational fears.
I can tell you right now that if the economy were booming and unemployment were
down, those who are so against this bill would be silent, yet they scream that
this is about all those greedy business people. Please, give me a break, its all
about greed for you people as well. Your anger has nothing to do with obeying or
disobeying the law.
The May cutoff date shows the intention of bringing more people here illegally.
This is not a solution to illegal immigration, it's an advertisement to lure
people here illegally, which violates Federal law.
That sound you heard was the forming of glaciers in the infernal regions. The
Utah Legislature has unaccountably passed a bill that is innovative, just, and
compassionate. I never thought it possible. Now Congress should look at Utah's
solution and imitate it. Meanwhile, the little fascists on this thread ought to
take their tantrums and move elsewhere -- I suggest Somalia.
People is so blind. They let their emotions go their heads and can't think
clearly.First, the guest worker program will take about 2 years to
work, we don't know if it will pass the federal courts. They even have to figure
out now how they are going to implement it. That will take a while if it ever
works.On the other hand, the bill requesting companies to check
their legal status of their employees is in effect NOW. It doesn't need anything
or anybody to enforce it. We will soon see companies getting in troubles for
hiring illegals.People think illegals will come here because they
think Utah is the oasis. It is not. The guest worker bill was signed out of
compassion but there are no sure signs it will be working in the near future.
Some think 'most Utahan's' are in favor of these bills because the news media
has slanted coverage to influence the process. It is time real Republicans (not
'cjb') start working now for a new candidate to run against Gov. Herbert in the
next elections. Some think you must be a 'tea party' member to believe in the
rule of law. cjb there are many people in this state not affiliated with the
tea party that support the Constitution. As President Reagan said, government
is not the solution to the problem, government IS the problem. The idea that
those elected to government are there to do what 'they believe is right' is the
main problem, those elected to government were sent their by the voters to
represent the people.
JayTee--So many tea party types who HATE illegals, often invoke poor
Southern California in posts to these kinds of stories.I've been to
the San Diego area many times. I see unending miles of beauty, affluence, and
prosperity. I know there must be a darker side as well, just as there is a
darker side in Utah. But threatening Utahns that we will end up like Southern
California is a silly argument.
What a shame.
mecr, I don't think that's correct. E-verify takes effect when the rest of the
bill does. If the bill dies in court, then E-verify dies with it. This bill
removes sb81 which made E-verify mandatory. E-verify is no longer in
effect in the state of Utah.
I see much intolerance in many of these comments. That is so sad -- especially
coming from a people who have experienced so much historical intolerance.
Listen, The Church called the shots on this and that is why Bishop Burton was
there. They may have not been public but believe it they were present. Could
some one explain why the Churches stand on this is not hypocritical. It appears
to be in conflict with the Articles Of Faith.
This is what happens when you have Gov. Herbert who hasnt got a clue, when it
comes to ground zero, regarding illegal immigration and elitist Utah
businessperson lobbyists who could care less about less-skilled Utah citizens
and care only about the almighty dollars, and what cheap labor will hand them
THE MAJORITY IS LEFT IN THE DUST TO DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES! Force the
elitist, the Governor and those of like mind to live in the belly of the beast
for a couple of years.
I seem to remember in the last primary that the Dems where having a melt down
because republicans were re-registering to vote against Matheson. It's cjb
suggesting the same thing?
This shows why Mitt Romney could not make it in a Presidential run. Last
election there were many who were concerned that the LDS church would have to
much influence on him. This to me is proof of that happening. I like others are
ready to give up on Utah and also the Republican Party.
To mohokat, it is not hypocritical and it does not conflict with the Articles of
Faith. This reminds me of the Pharisees throwing stones and accusing Jesus for
breaking the Mosaic law for doing service on a Sabbath and helping others.Helping those in need, even more those that are coming to this country in
order to escape death, threats and provide for a better future for their
children and family, I say it is our duty to help them. Many immigrants migrated
to this country, oh, I forgot, this country was founded by immigrants. It is the
broken system who is at fault and the bureaucracy, as well as Man made politics
that are driving away the hearts and minds of the people and converting those
thoughts into less compassionate causes. The gospel is open arms when it comes
to helping others, even when those that are here illegaly. We are not to pass
judgement as to why they are here, but it is prophecied in the scriptures that
this will happen.
"The Legislature's own attorneys have deemed the guest worker and
immigrants sponsorship programs unconstitutional, meaning the state would need a
waiver from the federal government to put them into practice."If the federal government is able to grant a waiver allowing something which
is unconstitutional then nothing is unconstitutional.
The laws are not broken, they are being broke. Like mixing immigration and
illegal immigration together, it's Orwellian doublespeak. You can't tell the
world your 13 principles you live by, then break one. With 80% of Utah's
legislature LDS, people around the world will question their integrity. We help them in their own country. We can't afford to do both. The President cannot give us a waiver, it will require the laws to be
rewritten by congress. And it would need to survive challenges in court. It's all about the illegal workers for business. That's why they are
giving people all over the world plenty of time to come here. Is
there a reason for citizens to follow the laws anymore? What good does it do us?
The parsing of words for political expediency is reprehensible. Why are certain
state legislators claiming that "the church" wanted them to vote for
this bill, because Mexico was threatening LDS Church "properties" in
Mexico? Seems to "fit" the real reasons for the bills, more than a
"defense of families".I wonder how many Utah fraudsters will use
these bills as an excuse to justify THEIR disregard for "honoring, obeying
and sustaining the law". Political Convenience is never a "good
reason" or excuse. I wonder if the authors of this bill gave a shred of
thought, to the long term financial implications for the taxpayers who elected
them, instead of the "special interests" applying pressure.
Anyone who says that "the people of Utah will not stand for this" are
mistaken. 71% of Utahns favor the bill. The LDS Church supports the bill. The
Utah Compact is a testament to the fact that many people, including leaders, in
many organizations, do stand for this. And we do it emphatically. We are glad
to pass positive legislation.I am a Mormon, and I agree 100% with
the Church's position on immigration reform in Utah. If you are one of the
Mormons that insisted that all other Mormons agree with the Church's position on
Prop 8, then I beg you to do likewise and accept the Church's position here as
Wow I cant believe the things I am hearing. As a member of the church I am
embarrassed and dont know what to think of some of these comments. You are
honestly questioning the church because it showing compassion? Were you honestly
in the church just because it had conservative views? Are you not aware of the
hundreds of congregations in Utah and all over the U.S. who have many illegal
faithful members, who our Heavenly Fathers children. Have you honestly forgotten
what the Gospel of Christ is about. You are starting to sound like the same mobs
the drove out our early members from back east, Missouri and Nauvoo because they
believed Mormons were ruining their states and their cities. Why are you letting
anger control your thoughts and question the church? I am proud that our
church is showing compassion. I have many LDS hispanic friends, this issue
effects their family greatly. We our all brothers and sisters and children of
the same God. Our leaders know what they are doing.
Welcome to the land controlled by business, legislative and religious leaders as
stated early in this article. What citizens want doesn't matter!
So he really did it! Sold out to the groups that support illegals against the
tax paying citizens of Utah who support the rule of law and LEGAL immigration.
All I need to know is who is running against the Gov in the next election. That
person will get my vote.
The immigration bills just signed are beginning the smoke screen effect which
could hide the super secret mandate of bill HB477.Bringing our state
back will take focus and immediate action. Repeal HB477 so that we can act in
freedom. HB477 will be effective in a short 90 days and will hinder, bind,
rebuff, and substantially dilute citizens efforts to participate openly and
freely in our, choose a title, Democracy, Republic, Guns Waivers, Pistol Palace,
Castle Ponzi, Little Mexico, and other options.The immigration bills
can be dealt with secondly, there is more time. The smokescreen technique is
highly effective and can be used to hide HB477 as well as succeed and further
abuse immigration law.
I had great respect for the State of Utah, and hopefully I will in the future.
I am not a resident of Utah, but if I were, I would hope that many like minded
citizens who do what California and now Florida have done: remove a governor
and major from office if they have failed to follow the wishes of their
This is an excellent and HUGE step forward for Utah and the nation. To me, these
bills represent the best in our political system. The bills were well debated,
fine tuned, and ultimately the Legislature came up with something unique and
innovative that responds to the demands of both justice and mercy.I
applaud Gov. Herbert and the Legistlature.Great job!
@ Irony GuyMy thought is that accountability rules the day. To
expect exisitng laws be abided, and to be angry that Utah is making up its own
rules...thats fascist?IMHO its acceptable for states to enforce
federal law if the Fed cannot or will not. In the scheme of things the state is
doing the people's bidding, and that will always be given deference, i.e. in the
end, that wins in the Supreme court...Just my opinion. To do something
"innovative" in this situation...that will not..and really cannot be
allowed to win....sorry.Why do think our AG was lobbying so hard in
DC? He knows what is coming, and he is hoping to get D.C. legislative action
before the Supreme Court Clobbers him...we can't even get a budget out of that
circus...talk about Glacial Sounds...BTW...name calling and adding
nothing but vitriol to a discussion...well you decide.
Tell me I can forge a degree in medicine and start working as a doctor because
"I'm trying to better my situation for my children". Email
the Governor and tell him how this affects you and your family or friends
personally. Construction has gone to those using illegals. What kind
of enforcement will be seen towards those breaking the laws and causing all the
legal citizens to go without work and pay at the hands of illegals. I've watched friends, family and my self loose out on work due to illegals. To
me this is theft. If someone enters your property (Our Country) and takes
something that is not theirs to take (our jobs/income) that is theft. The guest
worker program slaps them on the hand with a fine and then empowers them with
the legal right to continue the practice. How is that compassion towards those
who are being effected in our state by law breakers? A drywaller who
does it legal has to hang the drywall for free to compete with the prices those
who use illegals can do it for. One business in AF is a prime example. IFS
Does anyone know how to get a list of who voted for and who voted against this
If Gov. Herbert, his fellow congressmen, the Church and all Catholic Bishops,
feel charitable toward illegals, they should take it upon themselves to get
their wallets out, and support them. Our own President requested Americans take
charity into their own hands and not depend on our social system, because all
entitlements are being taken away and jobs scarce. I personally fear the cuts
being made have tightened my pursestrings to the point I make no personal
purchases, am extremely frugal and barely survived a sever, cold winter to keep
my heating down. It's isn't right to put the extra burden on our own citizens to
harbor those who are breaking our laws and robbing our loved ones. Remember,
charity belongs at home. Not all people agree with our religions, it's isn't
right to ask taxpayers to sacrifice for the beliefs of others or political
greed. Mexico is not that poor, they have free hospitals, a growing
infrastructure and economy, wonderful schools, and free colleges. Illegals
should stay in their own country, since their president said there were many
jobs. Thank you, Mr Hood
Bishop Burton said the church had endorsed the Utah Compact. "We feel that
the Legislature has done an incredible job on a very complex issue," Burton
said.Question:Whose side are you on?
Big mistake....he won't last long now. Any of my fellow Californians who have
watched the state be fleeced by illegals and watched the welfare systems in
place for Americans be used up by politicians extending itchy palms for the
Hispanic vote, know it's only a matter of time before your state will be over
run by gangs, drugs and trafficking. Governor Herbert made a huge mistake.
Mark my words.
So let's see the LDS Church, the Salt Lake Chamber, the media and the
legislators all meet in secret to set up these bills. I read somewhere you
should avoid secret combinations.
Separating wheat from chaff is simple. Just add some hot air.
I am so very sickened that the church would support this bill . I have been a
active member for over 40 years and do not agree with the church or you on this
. I also feel the church should NO longer be free from paying taxes if they are
going to help pass bills like these or be so involved in politics . I have
NEVER been upset with the church or so tick at any Governor as i am now . Gov.
Herbert and the church leaders have for the first time lost my vote . I am
sorry i ever voted for you for Gov.Herbert , it was a BIG mistake and will
never happen again . RobK.
''Congratulations Utah citizens!You now get to provide free
healthcare, WIC, welfare, education, (and don't forget food bank), to 110,000
illegal aliens in Utah for at least another year!A BIG victory for
illegal trespassers and their unethical employers! ''i agree 100 %
The Church, media, S L chamber, and legislators are so proud of themselves.
Well pride goeth before the fall. I think it is so sad the business side of the
Church trumped the ecclesiastical side of the Church.
If the bill attracts illegal immigrants it will prove to be a bad choice for
Utah citizens. Go to California and see for yourself how illegal immigration has
ruined that state. Also if immigration is good for the economy then why is
California in such economic collapse with all of its millions of illegal
These bills address the real issues. These immigrants are part of our society,
as one - very conservative - legislator who sponsored the bill said. No one
making negative comments about this legislation is will price of deporting them
- you are too cheap to fund the agencies responsible to do it. I support the
Church's position 100 percent. I would rather place my faith in the Prophet then
so called patriots.
Quote ' 'If the bill attracts illegal immigrants it will prove to be a bad
choice for Utah citizens. Go to California and see for yourself how illegal
immigration has ruined that state. Also if immigration is good for the economy
then why is California in such economic collapse with all of its millions of
illegal immigrants? ''I just moved here for a better life and to get
away from the ghettos . i lived in California 45 years (too long ) and now look
what happens . Its going to be another California soon !!
WARNING! Remember this the next time someone spouts open border lobby talking
points about they are only here to do the work you won't do,remember that the
open border promoting drug cartels use Illegal Immigrants by the thousands to
cultivate, smuggle, transport and distribute huge amounts of life destroying
drugs to Americas unfortunate victims. It could be your son or your daughter who
is the next target of the open border drug pushers. This a serious problem.
Don't end up the victim. Stop Illegal immigration Now.
@hoopsgirl - too bad we cannot post links, so google Utah HB 116 Third
Substitute, when you get to the bill site, click the link 'Bill Status/Votes.'
On the 'Vote' column, click 19 5 5 for the Senate vote, or 41 32 2 for the House
vote. Good luck!
Re: Utah H.B. 116; Funny, one would have thought that at least 29 GOP
Representatives (43-28-4) and 15 GOP Senators (21-7-1) in the Utah State
Legislature, and GOP Governor Herbert would have learned from President Ronald
Reagan's 1986 folly of granting amnesty, while ignoring the 'promise' of
immigration enforcement. Perhaps they're simply young, naive and unaware or most
likely, ignoring the lessons of history and repeating the 'same old mistakes.'
Had my Representative voted "yea" for H.B. 116, he'd be
off my list in 2012, as Governor Herbert and my Democrat Senator will be.
Without honoring the 'promise,' we are once again victims of betrayal and the
perpetual cycle of exploited illegal foreign workers will continue.
"Yea" Votes for H.B. 116: USL House; Anderson, Arent, Barrus, Bird,
Biskupski, Briscoe, D. Brown, Butterfield, Christensen, Cosgrove, Daw, Dee,
Draxler, S. Duckworth, Edwards, Janice Fisher, Julie Fisher, Galvez, Handy,
Harper, Hemingway, Hendrickson, Hutchings, Kiser, Litvack, McIff, Menlove, Moss,
Painter, Perry, J. Peterson, V. Peterson, Poulson, Powell, Richardson, Sagars,
Seelig, Vickers, Webb, Wheatley, Wiley, Wright & Lockhart; USL Senate;
Adams, Bramble, Buttars, Christensen, Davis, Hillyard, Jenkins, Jones, Knudson,
Mayne, McAdams, Morgan, Neiderhauser, Okerlund, Reid, Robles, H. Stephenson, J.
Stevenson, Valentine, Van Tassell & Waddoups.
So just write a new law if you can't uphold the old one! Hope that works
out well for you all! America is for Americans. Too bad we have
officials that don't understand that.At least you know your neighboring
states are going to love you, Utah is setting itself up to take care of some of
their problems. THANK YOU!All those that want so badly to be of good
service for immigrants need to march themselves right down and sign up to become
a sponsor for an immigrant family. That is how it done. If you can't walk your
talk maybe you should just sit down and be quiet.
I wonder if I will no longer be required to declare that I am "totally
honest" at my next Temple Recommend interview. Perhaps not being honest
with the government (e.g. not paying taxes or being here illegally} is
acceptable so long as I am honest in "dealing with my fellow men."
@ hagar | 12:56 a.m. March 18, 2011 That is a valid question.
Apparently, there are two different standards in being worthy of a temple
recommend--one for citizens and one for illegal aliens. If God is truly no
respector of persons (Acts 10:34; Romans 2:11; D&C 1:35; D&C 38:16),
then how is this possible?Here in South Florida, an
"experiment" is currently being conducted in a our stake. The English
speaking members (the majority) are expected to wear headphones and listen to
sacrament meeting being translated from Spanish into English. It
makes me feel like a foreigner in my own country.Certainly, I
believe in compassion, but I also believe in "choice and
accountability." So at what point is the line drawn where mercy can rob
Just met a new resident on one of our walking trails who moved here from
California. After talking to her and reading the posts from those in California
I have come to the conclusion that pandering to the illegals isn't such a good
idea. Will we (and our legislators) learn before it is too late?.... I wonder!
Please remember those on the list noted in the post above who voted for HB116
and include Herbert and vote them out at the next election day.
Why is it that people on this board so love to pile on CA?CA is not
the state with the biggest financial crisis as a percentage of GDP or
population. CA is extremely diverse in race and politics, in stark
contrast to Utah which is overwhelmingly white and Republican. I feel like I'm
in Stepford every time I visit Utah. It also surprises me that with a Church
which sends young people as missionaries around the world for 2 yrs so many
Utahns appear uninformed and narrow in their views. CA does have
significant budget issues and difficulty addressing them as a result of numerous
ballot propositions which restrict flexibility and laws which require(d) 2/3 to
pass a budget and/or raise taxes. Currently, Gov. Jerry Brown wants to put a
measure on the ballot for a temporary tax increase but Republicans are trying to
block the measure. Why not let citizens vote? Frankly, I believe it would be
voted down anyway as similar measures have.It isn't the diversity of
the state I don't like, it is the traffic and congestion of the big cities.
The U.S. needs comprehensive immigration reform which Republicans oppose. H-2B visas for temporary, NON-AGRIGCULTURAL workers is limited to 66,000
per/year. H-1B visas are limited to 65,000 per year and priority
given to highly skilled/highly educated workers. H-2A visas are for
temporary, seasonal agricultural workers about 30,000/yr. I would
guess this immigration bill is a bitter pill for Gov. Herbert to swallow and
were it not for LDS Church leaders working behind the scene it wouldn't have
passed and ended up with his signature.
The Church is prohibited by its own scriptures from mingling religious influence
with civil government to advance their own interests (D&C134).What is going on among the Brethren?
Notice that the Utah Compact' text does not actually use the word
"illegal."This leads me to a few conclusions1) Isn't
this confusing? When most people read this, as I can see in the comments, they
are thinking it's referring to illegals..2) This is a huge omission. You
can't draft an entire document about immigration and not talk about Legal v.
Illegal Status. There is a huge difference.3) @jray and others, I think
you should not assume the church is supporting "illegal" immigration,
considering it's not even in the text.
Giving away American jobs in this country is the act of traitors. Business needs to stay out of the immigration issue. They are going to force a
confrontation with labor that will put everyone here illegally in the middle.
Other than groceries, most everything we buy can be purchased
cheaper on the Internet from companies outside Utah.
H-2A visas are for agriculture and have no cap, farmers can apply for them any
time they want. Why don't they use them? To many people here illegally. Illegal
immigration has killed the visa programs. H-2b visas have a cap,
this is to protect our workers the same as other countries protect theirs. They
are issued according to need, not demand. More could be issued, if there wasn't
12-20 million people here illegally. H-1b visas and H-1C, are for
specific fields that we require more workers in. The caps are set by congress.
This is why a guest worker program will not be implemented by Utah.
They are either capped because of the large illegal immigration problem, or they
are not being used because it's easier just to hire someone here illegally. Utahn's have a right to their jobs. No man has a right to take away the
ability of another man to feed and house his family when he does it legally.
Thank you JBrady for the info. I'm guessing employers find it easier to hire
anybody (including illegals) than comply with the H-2A process. Specifically employers must:1. Undertake specific recruitment efforts to
hire U.S. citizens including contacting farm labor boards, advertise acc. to
Dept of Labor guidelines and also use existing federal and state employment
agencies etc. 2. Employers must establish employment of the alien
will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of workers in the
United States similarly employed.3. Employers must: a. Provide
free housing for those not able to return home each day;b. Transportation
from and back to the country of origin;c. Low-cost meals (if the customary
practice); andd. Guaranteed employment for seventy-five percent of the
period specified in the work contract.4. Finally, employers
seeking labor certification must assureDOL that they will replace an H-2A
visa-holder with any qualified U.S. workerwilling to do the same job at
the same rate of pay if that U.S. worker presentshimself or herself for
employment within the first 50 percent of the H-2A visaholderscontract
I am a retired immigration inspector and a member of the Church for the last 45
years who just published "10 Years On the Line: My War On the Border".
There is an amazing degree of ethnocentric naivete' being displayed regarding
this "Compact" similar to the Church's efforts to solve the
"homeless children of Brazil" non-existent issue. 1)Illegal entry into
the U.S. is NOT a "civil" offense. It is a violation of 10 USC
212(A)(6)(C)(ii) and is a felony. 2)What happened to: "Blossom where
you're planted?; "Strengthen the stakes of Zion, and "We teach them
correct principles and the GOVERN themselves? I feel like I've been stabbed in
Well, at least someone is "trying" to figure out a "solution"
instead of ignoring it an hoping it will go away. For my money I am willing to
see those that are not lazy, indolent, live off the system, have an opportunity
at success. Further, I have worked with the "illegals" in many
conditions, and have had them work for me. (they produced the necessary required
information and cards (green and sos) which turned out after 2 years to be
false) However during that 2 years, they paid all the required taxes (because I
sent it in) and those tax payments do them absolutely no good. So considering
this for the so-called millions that are paying into the system they are not
eligible to draw from, where does that money reside now, and why is social
security broke? After all that system has been being paid into for decades by
illegals that cannot draw from it so what "slush fund" has that money
gone into? Give 'em a number that way the government cannot hide or misuse
the money they pay in.
Another thought: It wasn't your governor who wrote the bill (s), it was
your legislature, so perhaps if you have a complaint in regards to the bill
contact them. Further, it looks like a pretty sensible blueprint to work from.
Third, no state law can supersede federal law, however it can equal federal law.
Each state however can mandate certain laws as a test to federal law. Is this
one of those? Fourth, I don't believe those that are working, whether legal
or not, will be smothering the health and social services with needs as most of
them know how to ration their finances, usually pay cash for what they get and
try to stay out of the public eye. The same cannot be said for the trouble
makers. And last, I believe those of you that are against immigration and
immigration reform that are LDS in particular. need to take a look at how Mexico
accepted the LDS Church into their country without a lot of problem. In 1912 (I
think) they were given the opportunity to return to the U.S. pretty much in
safety. Treat them as you would want to be treated.