Re: Bill | 1:28 p.m. March 1, 2011DeChristopher is no patriot. If
convicted he will just be another felon who may be surprised to find out there
is no parole in the federal prison system.DeChristopher's defense is
that he didn't know what he was doing was wrong .... and I doubt the jury is
going to buy it.
I read what I thought was an interesting quote in one of the many blogs this
morning.In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man,
brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him.
For then it costs nothing to be a patriot.-Mark Twain
Why is everybody giving Daryl Hannah such a hard time? So she flew in to
protest the oil leases on a JET (that burned thousands of pounds of fossil fuel
and put thousands of pounds of C02 into the atmosphere)... WHO CARES!!!She IS a true believer.She said in an interview a few years
ago that she believes in conservation of resources so much... she even re-uses
her toilet paper (EEEW!)But that's dedication. If she believes it
THAT much... I gotta give it to her. She's a true believer.I wonder
if any of the rest of these protesters re-use their toilet paper... or are they
Emajor;You said;Um, no he doesn't. I still gassed up my car and
heated my house just fine when he tied those leases up. How much power do you
think one idealistic college kid has?If society fails to make an
example of this "idealist", we are encouraging many others to do the
same types of things. People like this tend to go "one more step"
beyond what the previous person did. That WILL eventually lead to adverse
affects for society as a whole. As I stated before. Put him in prison under the
maximum punishment for fraud and make him pay back every cent of tax money that
was / has been used on him.
I am looking carefully at the photos accompanying the story. I see one
gentleman carrying a sign that says "Prosecute Obama not
DeCristopher". Is it possible we can find some common ground with these
people? Then I am seeing signs with a closed fist that say Joy and Resolve.
What's up with a closed fist--are we dealing with communists/socialists here?
Next I read that the actress will be reporting back to CNN on the trial and I
remembered why so many people tune in to the network for objective reporting on
the events of the day. Finally, thank you so much for the chuckle this morning.
I laughed outloud when I read the admonition from a poster here to brush up on
"comprehensive reading skills". What would those be? Do you mean
reading comprehension skills? Ha Ha Ha. That's funny.
The question isn't whether or not he broke the law, he clearly and knowingly
did, in interviews with DeChrostopher he stated that he knew he could go to jail
and was willing to pay the price for his actions. The real question is whether
or not his civil disobedience was the right thing to do. Rosa parks
knew that by not giving up her seat to a white man she was breaking the law, but
sometimes it is our job as Americans to stand up to our government and fight
injustices.One thing that people forget is that our country was
founded by law breakers, and even though they might not approve of
DeChristopher's cause they would applaud his patriotism.True
patriots are willing to make sacrifices to protect their country.
Arguments against the development of Utahs minerals are inane. The trial of a
lying conman is a side issue. May he be sentenced to pick up beer cans in our
national parks. The real conflict is the heavy-handed control of Utahs natural
resources by an oppressive federal government. Elitist environmentalists dont
care about people desperate for jobs in Utah. The aging hippies chanting
time-warped protest songs at the federal courthouse dont have show up for work
every day. To the enemies of job creation and economic growth: Give us back the
resources of our state. Give us freedom to drill for oil and gas and to mine
for coal responsibly. The deadline has passed for the descendents of Johnsons
army to get out of Utah for good. Bob Valentine, Highland, UT
The civil disobedience practiced by DeChristopher does not begin to compare to
bombing a clinic. That is an absurd comparison. DeChristopher's action was
non-violent and he stood up to take the consequences. HE is a soft-spoken,
effective advocate of peace. In contrast, the government's
prosecution is political. There have been others who have intentionally bid on
oil leases in the past without following up and paying for the leases in order
to keep competitors from winning the bids. But they were not charged or
prosecuted. In addition. there wewre many ATV riders, including a member of the
state legislature, who knowingly rode illegally intgo Paria Canyon a couple
years ago- none were charged or prosecuted- and I doubt they were willing to
stand for there beliefs and peacefully accept arrest and prison. DeChristopher,
in contrast, is a real man. DeChristopher did not go into the
bidding room planning to bid, but did so after he was asked at the door whether
he was a bidder. They should have prescreened all bidders and required
preregistration- and probably would have if they weren't in such a hurry to get
the leases out before Bush left Washington.
DeChristopher broke the law.. he is a criminal. His supporters therefore support
criminal activity. It is obvious their views are skewed and out of sync with the
general public. Criminal behavior deserves a just reward. I, for
one, hopes it is sufficient to stop future criminal activities by these leftist
Maybe someone can send DeChristopher some postcards of the non-National
Monument-quality lands he broke the law to protect. Some land God gave us for
it's beauty and some He gave for us to USE!
I hope Tim and his compatriots enjoy paying $4.00 per gallon for gasoline until
we can begin tapping our own oil once more. Their arguments that all the leases
have not, yet, been fully developed are specious. In the final analysis, it is
only logical to drill for oil in fields where oil is known to exist.
The greater good = progressive. Progressive = less freedoms. Less freedoms =
Wow, the DN people are asleep at the wheel here. I thought you guys were
supposed to screen comments where people acted like 14-year-olds and called each
You know why they want to drill on those parcels of land? because that is where
the oil is. It is not in downtown Salt Lake City or even on my farm. You can't
find it where it is not.I wish there were not so many hypocrites! Not one of those protestors were naked and I bet not one of them live in a
cave. Nor do they eat just wild grass. I am sure they drove to the protest
in a car and or flew in a plane.If I profess to believe a certain way, I
do all I can to live that way. They all look like the rest of us so the
don't practice what they preach.If you really believe it live it.
Flashback,Nowhere did I say that DeChristopher didn't break the law.
I said he didn't use violence and therefore should not be lumped in with those
that do. Brush up on your comprehensive reading skills.Civil
disobedience does not include violence, so your example of punching him in the
nose isn't civil disobedience. It's assault. You going to be nice
and talk like an adult now? Or have you got more childish names to call me. This
is my fourth post, so have at it.
There's no question this guy (with help from his lemmings, of course) will have
to pay a lot of money to the State of Utah for not only the lost payments we
never received on account of his bidding stunt, but also for the wages of
employees who had to invest their time into dealing with this case. If the
Timmy & Lemming club pays, let him stay out of prison. If they don't pay,
then let him hang with the other dull tools in prison.
It's a shame that in order to prove a point, he chose to break the law. There
are PLENTY of other great ways to try and help the environmental cause, but
breaking the law is never the most productive (though it may be flashy and
garner the most attention by the media). However, he probably doesn't deserve
10 years in prison for what he did. Some kind of punishment, yes, but there are
much worse crimes committed that get less of a sentence than that.
They should have required a down payment in order to bid.
People need to see what he was doing BEFORE that fateful day in December of
2008..NOTHING..he has done nothing since except write grants, pose for pictures
with "celebrities" and hold fund raisers to promote his being a
victim. What a phony. He did nothing for the environment before and will
do nothing after unless it greases his pockets. (He is praying that he goes to
prison so he can publish all of the letters he has already been writing showing
what a martyr he is.All of the people now in lock step behind his dog and
pony show are the same as those who ran behind Forrest Gump: no idea why, but
there must be a good reason.Also none of them knew him before his being
charged. It is no coincidence that Redford, SUWA, Utah Wilderness and every
other environmental group in the state has not supported his game.
@LDS Mom"Has any reporter asked MS. Hannah how she arrived in Utah?
Did she flap her arms and fly herself into the SLC airport or did she fly in on
a jet?"I'm not sure but as much as she hates fossil fuels I'm
quite certain she must have rode a horse or walked. Maybe the out of state
protesters got together and formed a wagon train to come here.@jmstoker"When gas reachs $5.00 a gallon it wont be the rich who
will suffer.... "However I'm sure it will be the rich who are
Daryl Hannah, huh? I wondered whose "collagened" lips those were
E major, you are a first class dork. I could commit civil disobedience on
DeChristopher by punching him in the nose. No one would get hurt, but I'd still
go to jail.He committed fraud. Last time I checked, fraud is still
against the law. He did hurt me because I have some stock in some of those
dastardly oil companies bidding on those leases. My stock took a loss which
hurt me financially. So his fraud did hurt someone. By the way, I'm not rich,
I'm one of those lower middle class folks that the airheads like Darryl Hanna
claim to be trying to help with their gross stupidity. My retirement fund
counts on profits of these companies.
Here's the main thing that drives me totally nuts about all this. The First Unitarian Church of Salt Lake is the group who spearheaded most
these protests. This is the same church which, lead my Rev. Tom Goldsmith, has
in the past repeatedly blasted the LDS Church for getting involved in political
matters such as same-sex marriage. Yet whenever there's a left-wing political
protest of any kind (anti-war, anti-death penalty, Obamacare) the Unitarians are
right there, usually the ones planning the whole thing.I don't hold
any personal malice towards Rev. Goldsmith or his church members, but it seems
to me there is a blatant dishonesty coming from many liberal church
congregations. They publicly attack conservative churches for violating our
nation's separation of church and state, while at the same time engaging in the
very behavior they're condemning in others.
When gas reachs $5.00 a gallon it wont be the rich who will suffer....
Has any reporter asked MS. Hannah how she arrived in Utah? Did she flap her arms
and fly herself into the SLC airport or did she fly in on a jet? One that uses
FUEL. What about the other protesters. Did they drive gas powered cars to arrive
in down town Salt Lake? The leases were legal, Mr. DeChristophers actions
were not. End of story.
To be an imposter and a liar is a bad thing. And may get one put in the pokey.
Give him a little time for his wrong-doing, put a figure on the amount of time
and resources he wasted and make him pay pay that amount. And if he is anywhere
close to being a MAN...he will say he is sorry.
I wonder how many of these dimwitted protesters are on some form of Government
welfare, Students of a tax supported school or from out of state.
2 bits,Forgive me for overlooking your non-provocative examples from your
first comment. And I really liked the comment you made at 11:29. The
examples you gave of zealotry are absolutely true. But they represent a very
small fraction of people on either side. There really is a difference between
nonviolent civil disobedience and violent retaliation. Many of you may hate his
ideology, but DeChristopher falls into the former, not the latter. I consider
myself an environmentalist. But I'm not going to break the law to express it.
And I certainly wouldn't torch a car dealership or support ALF's wacko stunts.
And I'm pretty sure neither would 99% of those at the DeChristopher rally. Just
as 99% of those picketing an abortion clinic would never bomb the place or
threaten the life of the doctors.@ Neanderthal,"He
threatens Americans' ability to heat their homes and get to work in their
vehicles"Um, no he doesn't. I still gassed up my car and
heated my house just fine when he tied those leases up. How much power do you
think one idealistic college kid has?
@Emajor: "Did DeChristopher... threaten anyone's physical safety?"He threatens Americans' ability to heat their homes and get to work in
their vehicles. How does this guy expect people to get to and from work and to
the grocery store? There's not enough horses or hay in the state to feed them
to get to work on horseback.What does Tim think we should use for
Emajor | 11:22 a.m.I included a right-wing-protester/zealot causing
financial damages in my earlier list of hypothetical situations. You may have
missed that because I included some more provocative examples as well.---You act as if the examples I gave were obsurd... and yet they
are known to have happened (by Zealots on both sides).Some Hints to
help your memory... -The Weather_Underground (a leftist organization)
bombed buildings and killed people as part of their protests in the 60's. -Remember SDS (a Socialist organization) and the protest they organized in
Chicago called "The_Days_of_Rage"??? Their own slogan was "Bring
the war home"... and they did... resulting in extensive property_damage and
injuries and many Weatherman and SDS leaders being arrested_and_Jailed?-Remember Timothy McVeigh?-Remember the Abortion Clinic bombings?-Remember the ALF house burnings-The Animal Rights guy here in Utah
who's on trial for burning businesses here in Utah?-The ALF guy who burned
all those cars in California?---Obviously the examples I
gave are not hallucinations or made_up. They were based_on_real_incidentsWhen Zealots (on both sides) decide their cause is above the law... it's
not a good thing.... McCristopher included.
The guy should go to jail for ten years. And all his supporter friends should
get rid of their gas burning vehicles and walk to work. If they don't want the
state's natural resources developed they can show their sincerity by stopping
their use of it. Otherwise shut up and go home.
I agreeTree Tim, Tree Tim
Minimum 5 years in prison and I want him to pay back every cent he has cost the
taxpayers with his publicity stunt. What a total waste of everyones time and
Funny how these dupes come in and support DeCristopher, yet they probably drove
their energy eating vehicles and came from their nice warm homes. Prices are
going to necessarily skyrocket because of these near sited people. They will be
screaming for energy and there will be less because of their politcal activism.
I wonder how they feel about Van Jones and the rest?
These clowns are able to protest because it's legal in this country to protest.
How would they feel if the police or an angry mob broke the law by stopping them
The protesters marching in the streets can say what they want... but they need
to realize that the jury in court room will be advised by the judge to apply the
law, and required to apply the law regardless of their individual biases for or
against the defendant... regardless of what is going on outside.The
judge will not be able to advise the jury to disregard the law for this
defendant. No matter how noble the people outside think he is.---Now sentencing... that is a different story. The
judge has more latitude in sentencing. But protesters should not expect him to
be found "Innocent" (he's already said he intentionally broke the
law... and is proud that he broke the law). So finding him "innocent"
isn't a realistic expectation now.But getting a light sentence...
that is a realistic possibility.---Protesters need to
have realistic_expectations regarding what they demand of the jury. The jury
can't just declare him "innocent"... when he's confessed to
intentionally breaking the law. Even if they agree with his cause.As long as you have realistic_expectations... there's a CHANCE of
satisfaction. If not... satisfaction isn't really possible.
2 bits,Very very poor analogies. Did DeChristopher shoot anyone?
Shoot at anyone? Bomb a building? Beat someone up? Burn down someone's house?
Threaten anyone's physical safety? The discussion of whether or not
it is OK to violate the law in the magnitude and form that DeChristopher did in
order to support a given moral view is a fine discussion to be having. But
don't exaggerate it to make his actions seem equivalent to murder, terrorism,
arson, or assault.
I'm unclear how this case got to be such a big deal. There should have been a
plea deal long ago. I don't know if the prosecutor is out to make a name for
himself, or DeChristopher wants to be a martyr, but let's break the
possibilities down this way:A) The parcels offered for lease
complied with all regulations, and the lease was proper. DeChristopher's
bidding was illegal. The possible effects of that were1) A delay
in the leasing by 3 months until the next auction.2) Somebody else tries
to disrupt future auctions.The delay would be minimal in the total
timeline of producing oil. The second issue is easily addressed by having
future bidders make a deposit before they can bid.B) The parcels
were being leased in violation of federal regulations. In this instance,
DeChristopher's bidding was still illegal. But he actually saved the oil
companies and the federal government substantial money. The lease agreements
would have been completed, and then challenged in court and tied up for
years.Either way, the incident was minor, and should be dealt with
If you are going to break the law for what you consider a just cause, you need
to be willing to face the consequences that accompany breaking that law. Does
this guy deserve his day in court? of course he does. What really concerns me is
the people that feel this guy has done nothing wrong. This is the mentality that
says if a woman dresses sexy, she deserves to be raped. If a bank charges to
high of an interest rate, they deserve to be robbed. This is the mentality that
brought on the Salem witch hunts, the inquisition, and the terrorism that we are
dealing with today. If I pulled a drill rig into the middle of Zions National
Park and drilled a well, because I feel we need to do more drilling in the US, I
wonder if these same people would come out to support me? Probably not, because
only their cause justifies breaking the law.
Wow, a Peter Yarrow sing-in at the Unitarian Church! That's impressive. But I
think I'm more interested in whether DeChristopher broke the law or not.
The essence of civil disobedience is to break the law (and be willing to pay the
price for doing so) for a higher good. Just look at the racial protests of the
1950s -- people were willing to be beaten, maimed and even killed to achieve
racial equality and the defeat of racially discriminatory laws and practices.DeCrhistopher's goals were good (there are already an abundance of oil
and gas leases which have been purchased but are lying fallow -- develop them
first or have them fail before putting any more leases up for bid), but I don't
see that he had the courage or dedication to accept the price for his actions
Sometimes idiocy really is a crime.
If he is the true believer he claims to be, he will be delighted to go to prison
for his beliefs.
I guess it is ok to break the law as long as you do it to advance some leftist
cause. Next thing you know they will be wanting to exterminate all belching
cows. I'm afraid.
Finally... the article on the DeChristopher supporters and their loony
statements I've been waiting for this morning.I just wanted to point
out the hypocrisy of these people. They advocate selective obedience to the
law... and feel the law often doesn't apply to THEM... or THEIR_CAUSE. But they
aren't so understanding when people they don't agree with disregard the law to
protest THEIR cause.That's where the problem starts. What if an abortion protester thinks HIS CAUSE is more important than the
law... and decides his act of civil_disobedience will be to bomb a clinic?What if an illegal immigration protester thinks HIS CAUSE is more
important than the law and decides to setup a sniper-rifle on the border and
pick off people crossing the border illegally? Or beat up somebody who
represents the cause he opposes? Or burn down their house (because he thinks
it's too big) or burn a lot full of cars (because they transport illegal
aliens)... or even just decides to break the law and cause his opposition
monetary damages? Then it's not so OK.Just be
consistent....Consistently support rule_of_law or consistently