BYU fans, please ignore Ute trolls hedgie and chrissy. Just don't respond to
them. They are only here to rises out of BYU fans. Don't feed them.That said: Hard fought tough game. Sometimes I think Jimmer tries to do a
little too much. But, many times his shots don't go in because he get hammered.
At least tonight many of the fouls were called and made the free throws. Bring on the Aztecs. Should be epic. Go Cougars.
Congratulations Cougars on another great win!
Bring on SDSU! Too many turnovers tonite so lets hope that won't happen
Saturday. Jimmer looked good to go.Go Cougars!
I would suggest Fredette not go down any dark alleys at this time. He is
getting mugged on every corner as it is. I don't know where his three point
shot went either, maybe one of the muggers took it.He is playing out of
control now since he is being treated differently and he is playing outside the
style he set in the first half of the season. He does better in the away games.
Hope he puts it together for San Diego State. If not I hope San Diego ignores
the rest of the Cougars and the Y will win it.An enjoyable game
nonetheless watching the team effort. Jackson Emery is the hidden wonder of
this team. His quickness is phenomenal.On to San Diego. Go Cougars
The Rams played hard and gave the Cougars their best effort, but Jimmer and
Brandon played great. Brandon, another double-double, and Jimmer, 30+ points on
an off-shooting night.Jimmer is averaging 27.4 and only need 169
points to break Danny Ainge's all-time BYU scoring mark. At his current pace,
Jimmer will break Ainge's record in 7 games, or the first game of the NCAA
tournament if BYU plays in the final of the MWC tourney.Now we can
turn our attention to the next biggest game in the history of the MWC, the #7
BYU at #4 SDSU rematch.
I thought for the most part the refs did a good job tonite. CSU played very well
and I was happy to see so many BYU fans shaking Tim Miles hand before the game.
Jimmer rarily gets an uncontested 3-point shot anymore, so it's important when
he drives and kicks it out to a wide open teammate, that Jimmer's teammates bury
those open 3's. That will take a lot of pressure off of Jimmer who is such a
competitor that he's pressing a little too much lately.Still, it was
another gutsy effort by Jimmer, a stellar performance by Brandon, and another
great all-around game by Jackson.The Cougars will have to have their
best game of the season to pull off the upset at SDSU!
I was listening online, and gWrubell mentioned that at the beginning of the 2nd
half, it looked like Coach Rose was taking the refs to task about how they
continue to not call fouls. It seemed to help. But I'm positive that in San
Diego on Saturday, with the current jewel and darling of the MWC playing the
team on the way out the door who the conference poobahs view as the villian, the
MWC refs will be more one-sided than ever. I think Rose ought to
consider & plan a scenario where he climbs on them as soon as the bias
begins to be obvious, and with enough vehemence that he risks getting ejected.
It would be very risky, but nothing less may be enough. It would fire up the
team, hopefully serve to shame the shameless, and may put them on notice for the
remainder of the season and the tournament. With the assistant coaches on
board, Rice and company can keep the team on track with Rose in the locker room.
How many games have the cougars played this year, where Jimmer wasn't the top
scorer on the floor?
Jimmer gets hammered pretty much EVERY time he drives the lane. If the refs
called every foul players committed against Jimmer, Fredette would shout 30 free
throws a night.It's funny how a little bump against just about any
other player on the court will be called every time, but Jimmer can be knocked
to the floor with the refs swallowing their whistles half the time.I
guess consistency is way too much to expect from MWC officials.
34 points and we are complaining??Jimmer is getting so many shots
because the offense runs like he is an option QB. He starts up high as a threat
for the bomb. If that's not available, he drives. If there is a lane, he takes
it to the goal. If not, he dishes. Personally, I like that he takes many shots
to the hoop. He's putting a lot of pressure on the defense drawing lots of
fouls. Add to the fact that he's a 90 free throw shooter, he's a difficult
weapon to stop.
Over the past several games now, when he is pressing for his points he turns the
ball over more often than not. With the way other teams are defending Jimmmer,
he should be getting 15 assists a game.
Great hard fought game. That one was fun to watch. If Rogers and Jimmer shoot
like that against SDSU though, SDSU is going to win.go cougars
If the Rams don't get a bid to the bid dance from a conference ranked as high as
the MWC is ranked, it will be a disappointment. They are a talented team. BYU continues to find ways to win. Not only was Jimmer having an off
night, but Rogers was cold as ice. But somehow we took care of business.The one thing I really like about this years team is the involvement.
Last year the team would stand around in awe and watch Jimmer. This year
everyone is moving, cutting, screening and being aggressive.I can't
wait for Saturday.
I think Jimmer tried a little too hard tonight with the 3's but I can see a need
to shoot out of a slump with SDSU coming up Saturday. I wasn't impressed with
his drives as much as normal but he got alot of free throws out of it. He should
have passed it out a few more times. Sloppy play let to too many turnovers. The
rest of team did not shoot well but they stepped up in every other way. Great
teams find a way to win. They are going to need a better shooting game to beat
My favorite shot of the night was the trey Jimmer knocked down from about five
feet beyond the arc. 34 points while getting banged around all over the court
and the big man Davies nailing his free throws. Gotta feel good about the
Cougars chances in SD on Sat.
I noticed Jimmer pass the ball and then the ball would be passed again for an
assist on a made basket. It is the team that is winning these games, and BYU's
depth will show up and outlast the Aztecs on Saturday. Jimmer's turnovers were
outright muggings that were not called by the three blind mice.
Roger's missed his first few shots and was then limited in his minutes.This was a mistake.Repeat, this was a mistake.Roger's
is a shooter and shooters have to keep shooting. Can't do that from the bench.
We should stick with him.
Gutsy performance by the Cougars and a quality win. CSU is a terrific team with
I wish I could suggest to Jimmer to lower his dribble when he drives the middle
or splits defenders. A low dribble, using the body to cover the ball will cut
his turnovers big time. I agree with some of you that he is forcing things a
bit. I didn't notice that until he became a cult phenomena after the SDSU game.
I think the pressure is getting to him.
SDSU is not a good offensive club. They are a great defensive club and
offensive rebounders. BYU will DOMINATE SDSU if they limit
turnovers and hit 40% of there three point shots.
Congratulations Cougars on a hard fought win in a not so pretty game. Lot's of
turnovers and fouls, but you did what you had to do to win. Gotta clean it up
by Saturday though.
12 free throws down the stretch on Davies. Wow, keep on practicing before
Saturday game and good luck. Great game Cougars.
Thanks Mormon Ute for the kind words.The Aztecs will be the
favorites Saturday, as they should be playing at home, but Jimmer seems to save
his best games for the most hostile environments, so this going to be a very
interesting game.Let's hope the Aztec students keep it clean and
don't embarrass themselves on national television.
SammyB | 11:23 p.m. Feb. 23, 2011 Provo, UTI wish I could suggest to
Jimmer to lower his dribble when he drives the middle or splits defenders. A low
dribble, using the body to cover the ball will cut his turnovers big time. -------Wow, Sammy, it's too bad Jimmer didn't have your advice
earlier in his career. He might have had a chance to become a pretty good
"When your defense is extended, you're vulnerable to fouls and to offensive
rebounds, and that's what happened. But it was worth the risk, I think."Apparently, Coach Miles didn't spend enough time watching video on the
kewgs. Time and again, especially on the road (the reason for their high RPI),
tds showed that if you "Hack a Shaq" Jimmer or dbl/trpl team him, the
other players will step up - or Jimmer will burn you at the charity stripe. He's
ice cold at the line.Backfired on you, coach. Pyrrhic victory at
best in not giving him his field goals. Your strategy was doomed. Any other
team? Might have worked. Not this one. You got Jimmered - again.
9for26, 3for8. looks like the long season is showing on Jim.
Our rebounding, steals and free throw shooting have carried us lately. We will
need a higher shooting percentage vs. SDSU to win and in the tournaments to
follow. I love Jimmer but he is forcing too many shots and has lost his focus
somewhat (at 34 points!). He had a few open shots including one drive last night
that just weren't even close.
Congratulations, BYU, on a terrific win in spite of the officials. We attended
the game and saw the physical attack and mugging against Jimmer go unnoticed in
the first half of play. This was the worst game for officiating yet. I agree that Coach Dave Rose needs to get on this bias early in the SDSU game
Saturday to support his team if the same thing happens . He talked to the Refs
when it continued after halftime. The slamming and pushing against Jimmer was
soooooo noticable from the first possession! When CSU could see that they could
physically punish Jimmer and have it go unnoticed, they stepped up the pace.
Unbelievable! It could have been stopped in the first two minutes had it been
handled correctly by unbiased officials. Please just call it the same at both
ends of the court!!!We agree that it was hard fought, and commend
CSU's fine Coach Miles for his class and determination. Brandon Davies and
Jackson Emery were outstanding in this game. Jackson brings so much passion and
drive to the game. Every opposing coach seems to comment on him. He should be an
All-American for his playing style.Go Cougars!
Re: Tom in CA "Gutsy performance by the Cougars and a quality win. CSU is a
terrific team with talented players." I agree; however, also a performance
that if they do the same at the Viejas Arena on Saturday, they will get
dominated and lose to the Aztecs. For once, Hartsock hits double figures, but
what about Emery? Is this guy ever going to hit 20 points again? In stead of
barely hitting double figures, Davies, Emery and Hatsock have got to be in the
15-20 point range to win Saturday. Come on, Cougs!!! All the Aztecs, sports talk
and papers are talking about the 1-Trick pony of Jimmer. They think that you
"control" him by putting fresh bodies on him to slow him down, and
they have this game in the bag. The other 3 have got to play their game of the
season. Let's put the Aztecs in their place .... in their own house!
Storm clouds are on the horizion for the kittens."jacker"
actually dropped to 34% shooting with a 9 of 26 sizziling performance...bwhaaa
haaa haaa haaa ha.And it will only get worse as the competition gets
better.Better get your Chapter 11 paper work together because the
business model is broken. GIMMICK LLC. is about to go out of business.Saturday:SDST 87tds 71MWC tourney:soul
crushing lose in first round.NCAA Tourney: 1st roundMSU
58tds 43* "jacker" will shoot 26% for the remaining
3 gamesMARK IT DOWN!
@Hedgie,Funny how even with Jimmers off night of shooting he himself
scored as many points in the first half as the entire Utes team! Something to
think about. Also, SDSU is ranked higher, playing at home, and are
the favorites, so even if the cougs lose it was expected, right? Personally, I
think the cougs will get the win even though they are the underdog. You really
have no where to go on this one since BYU is predicted to lose.
Only 2 Assists and 7 turnovers and shooting 33% on 26 shots and you all call it
another great game by Jimmer?Those kind of stats translate to end of
the bench status in the NBA and a first round loss in NCAA. Good thing he got to
the foul line 16 times.I think SDSU is going to win the next one I'm
tTe defensive sets against Jimmer are getting better. Teams know that they
have to help inside and post a big man almost under the basket to try and draw a
charging foul. Jimmer needs to fake driving to the middle more for pull up
jumpers or jump lobs to open shooters. Can't wait to see what Fisher comes up
with this time. This game sets the winner up for a top seed in the tourney. SDST
has the edge but we've got Jimmer, Jackson, Noah, Charles, Brandon, Kyle,
Stephen, et al to give a great chance for an upset. After we win the pundits
will start running down how bad the loser was and we really don't deserve a
number 1 seed.
JazzManTne NBA won't be able to double- and triple-team Jimmer like
MWC teams are doing because even role players in the NBA are too good to be left
unguarded.Jimmer got to the foul line about half what he should have
considering the hack-a-Jimmer strategy the Rams were using to slow Jimmer down.
I would expect a top ranked team with the player of the year to easily handle a
team like CSU, especially at home. BYU will be exposed in the second round of
the NCAA tourney.
Peter Lemon"I would expect a top ranked team with the player of
the year to easily handle a team like CSU, especially at home."Then you don't know much about CSU or college basketball.
Lonestar,Yeah I really don't have any interest in college
basketball. As of late I have heard a lot of hype around the office about this
BYU team and Jimmer. That sparked my curiosity so I'm keeping an eye on how they
do from here on out. So far I'm not all that impressed. It seems like it is more
hype than real substance. But we will see how far they go in the big dance. I
say they get knocked out by a more physical and athletic team in the second
"So far I'm not all that impressed. It seems like it is more hype than real
substance. But we will see how far they go in the big dance."Peter lemon,A very fair assessment from the casual basketball fan.
Outside of the bubble of delusion, the handful of people who as seen
the jimer show come away flat. I have yet to hear the media use words like
"great team" or "physical" or "multi demensional"
ect..No, what you see is what you get. A gimmick shooter, who when
guarded will have an accuracy of around 30%.
Peter LemonLike you said (by inference), you don't know much about
college basketball.BYU has been doing just fine against more
physical and athletic teams all year.
Another great win for the Cougars. CSU is a pretty good team and even with the
sloppy play and poor shooting we still pull out another win.Glad
Jimmer got that one out of his system.I'm still laughing at 30+
points and trolls are trying to come up with something.Hilarious
stuff.Thanks for the laugh this morning.Saturday is
going to be a great game.
Peter LemonSDSU needed a buzzer beater 3 to beat CSU. Im assuming
you think SDSU will be exposed as well?Great teams dont ALWAYS blow
out their opponent. BYU has done a great job this year of putting teams away,
but thats not going to happen every time. Just ask Duke and Tx and Pitt and Ohio
St. Poor shooting night + 3rd best team in conference + win by eight
= very good win. No matter how you slice it, BYU did what they needed to do.
"the bubble of delusion" hangs heavy over a little troll hole in
Michigan this morning.
I agree, the Cougars looked a bit sloppy last night. Way too many turnovers and
fouls. Play like that in San Diego, and we'll have little chance of winning.I wish Abouo had had more playing time. And that Rogers had hit
something! Oh well. Jimmer, Jackson and Brandon carried the team again, and Noah
contributed nicely. These games are not for the faint of heart.
sports-junkie,Yes, SDSU will most likely be exposed as well. That
being said I hope both BYU and SDSU make a great run in the tournament. That
would be a great story and a lot of fun to watch.
Coach Dave Rose famously stated that the best way to defend Jimmer is to foul
him.It now appears that the other teams were listening and the
referees, just to make it fair, are not calling those fouls.There
needs to be a means available to make officials accountable. They clearly treat
Jimmer different than they do other players.I wish we could bring a
law suit against the offending officials, but that would clog up the courts and
cause a multitude of other problems.I am open to suggestions...
"I wish we could bring a law suit against the offending officials, but that
would clog up the courts and cause a multitude of other problems."The Rock,At first I thought this must be a Utah troll, but as a
reread the post I suspect this type of "victim" thinking is pretty
common.Only in the bubble.
hedge,Does this bubble you speak of include national media types
like Digger Phelps, Jay Bilas, Dick Vitale, Scott Van Pelt and Gary Parrish,
just to name a few? That's one heck of a bubble then because they've all drank
heavily from Jimmer's Kool Aid!
The shooting was off, but eighty four points is pretty good. Most teams would
like scoring that many.
Naked Truth Don't confuse hedgy with the reality outside his little
troll bubble. Hedgy would be delirious with joy if the Utes had a
player who could score 34 points on an off-night shooting. Heck,
he'd be delirious with joy if the Utes had a player who could score 34 points on
a career night.
Naked Truth,Unless you can prove otherwise the media you mention
only speak of on player - jimer. As far as positive words about the
"team"? well, keep crawling the web...I'm sure you'll find some
You ought to hear/read the local sports talk shows and articles. All they're
talking about is shutting Jimmer down-- or "slowing" him down quite a
bit. There's little, if any, talk about the rest of the team. Come on, remaining
starting 4 and bench, don't let this SDSU alumn, who long ago began to
"bleed Cougs blue", down! Please, oh please, oh please!!
Did you catch the half time show on the MTN during the game?Andrea
Lloyd and co analysts actually recommended getting more physical with Jimmer to
the point of throwing him elbows and shoulders to impede and wear him down. To make matter worse they pounded their fists into there hands and looked as
though they themselves would like the opportunity to pound on Jimmer for a
Jimmer and the Cougars are one and the same hedgehog.Chicago and the
Bulls.Bird and the Celtics.Magic and the Lakers.Kobe and the
Lakers.Dr. J and the 76ers.Great teams are usually led by
great players. The media always dwells on the great players, but everyone who
knows anything about basketball knows that great teams, include great, but
seldom talked about, supporting casts.Davies, Hartsock, and Emery
would be starters on every other team in the MWC.
Hedgie is right! What does BYU know about being physical. They let Athletic,
phyical teams from the Pac12 like Utah (HAHA) and #10 AZ push them around and
also other teams like #4 San Diego or #24 Utah State. What would a team with
the #1 RPI in the nation know about being physical and athletic.Hedgie makes sence here. If you would just think logically you would see why
he is right........(That was complete sarcasim if you couldn't tell)And by the way, every night when ESPN talks about BYU they say the word
I watched the game last night. Great win for the cougs. Because of the way
Utah got treated at SDSU by some hooligan fans I hope the cougs beat the pants
of the Aztecs. I was interested in a comment made last night by Blaine Fowler
former BYU football player. He was commenting on the rabid atmosphere in the
Marriott Center and how the CSU players were adjusting to it and then said that
any athlete worth his salt wants to play on the road before thousands of fans,
the more the better. I totally agree with Fowler. Then I thought of next year
when BYU goes on the road in the WCC and plays before maybe 3,000-4,000 fans in
tiny gyms. What a disappointment that will be. What would it have hurt for
Holmoe to stay in the MWC for one more year while he took more time to assess
the situation? With Hawaii coming in the MWC as a football only member it seems
to me that BYU could have worked something out with the presidents to leave all
sports except football in the MWC while Hawaii came in with football.
"What would it have hurt for Holmoe to stay in the MWC for one more year
while he took more time to assess the situation?"Dutchman,Homoe threw a baby tantrum..simple as that. He saw an athletic director
(Hill) and a University (Utah) out fox him for 10 years and then win the beauty
contest (pac 12 invite). Knee jerk reations of a jilted little brother will
often lead to playing in gyms similar to what you see in an elementary
school.Cooler heads would have gotten BYU independence for football
and MWC for everything else. Talk about amatuer hour. Dr. Hill
is still laughing.
"If not I hope San Diego ignores the rest of the Cougars and the Y will win
it." You won't be playing San Diego until next year in the
WCC. Try to be consistent, it's SDSU!
DutchmanThe MWC teams and arenas weren't the issues. Craig
Thompson's horrible television contract and all of the broken promises made to
BYU about access rights were the main issues.Dispite years of
complaints from BYU, CT had done NOTHING to address those complaints and it was
obvious he wasn't ever going to.It wasn't going to matter who joined
the MWC, the only way BYU could escape the MTN was to leave the MWC.btw, did you bother watching the Utah State-Saint Mary's game last Saturday.
McKeon Arena may not be as big as arenas in the PAC 10 and MWC, but it was every
bit as loud and raucous.Besides, why do you care what happens with
BYU and the MWC? The Utes' decision to abandon the MWC removed the
last "brotherly obligation" the Cougars had for staying in the MWC.
hedgyFor an example of throwing a baby tantrum, see mirror every
time BYU wins another game or schedules another big name opponent.The Utah trolls are green with jealousy of the prospects of BYU's move to
independence completely overshadowing Utah's move to the PAC 12.BYU
vs TCU in the Jerry DomeBYU vs Texas on ESPNBYU vs Ol' Miss in a
game that, by itself, will generate more revenue for BYU than Utah will get in
its entire first year in the PAC 12BYU vs West Virginia in Washington
DCJust a sample of the types of games independence has already
opened the doors to BYU playing in.And BYU is still 6 months away
from playing their first game as an independent.
"You won't be playing San Diego until next year in the WCC."You're correct.Utah is the only Utah team to play San Diego this
year -- and it wasn't pretty, for Utah.
Fishtec"You won't be playing San Diego until next year in the
WCC."Not entirely true.The #2-ranked BYU men's
volleyball team will be playing #13-ranked San Diego tonight and tomorrow night
in the Smith Fieldhouse.Both matches will be aired live on BYUtv.A preview of things to come for BYU football and basketball when they're
not playing on ESPN.btw, BYU and San Diego both play volleyball in
the same conference as UCLA, USC and Stanford.
Old Gregg | 1:53 p.m. Feb. 24, 2011Alpine, UTHedgie is right! What
does BYU know about being physical. They let Athletic, physical teams from the
Pac12 like Utah (HAHA) and #10 AZ push them around and also other teams like #4
San Diego or #24 Utah State. What would a team with the #1 RPI in the nation
know about being physical and athletic.Gregg, last time I looked San
Diego was not ranked #4, SDSU was! San Diego is that WCC team that is unranked
& most likely perched in the lower half of the WCC, you play them next year!
@ Jazzman aka HedgieYou do realize that if Jimmer is hammered, and
consequently misses his shot, and a foul is then called (which is not always the
case) he makes up for the missed shot by hitting 2 free throws. Right?He made 14 free throws on 16 attempts. Most of those were 2 shot fouls,
therefore the missed shots were mitigated.Now, if he was not stellar
from the line, then you would have a point. Only a ute would
consider a 34 point and a Victory, subpar.We'll take a missed shot
every time, if Jimmer can get to the line. He's being doubled and
tripled teamed, I think he is a Warrior. Great players adapt to every situation
and help their team any way they can.How many of the Jimmers critics
ever scored even 10 points in County/rec?Give us a break.
Wow hedgie wedgiekins,You've eclipsed how many times you have commented on
ANY Utesies article, how many comments does that make on this one BYU article?
Geez, your love affair with Jimmer and BYU is becoming quite consuming.
Hope you "Mark it down" in your little Jimmer journal how many
points he scores at SDSU.
@DutchmanRemember BYU will only have 16 WCC games, and only 8 of
those will be on the road.That leaves 8 of those WCC games at the
22,700 seat Marriott Center.It also leaves another 14-16 open dates,
to be scheduled against teams all over the Country. ESPN owns the rights to
BYU's home B-ball games, there will be many great games and experiences in
storied arenas for the Cougars to compete in.I suggest the Utes just
worry about how their teams can even get local TV deals.Arizona
right now, Arizona! is complaining about how they are never on TV. Arizona! a
storied program.Chew on that.
FishtecAs Utah proved this year when the Utes played San Diego, the
Utes wouldn't even be competitive in the WCC.If finishing at the
bottom of the PAC 12 makes U feel better than finishing at the bottom of the WCC
is what floats your boat, enjoy!Regardless of which conference the
Cougars are in, MWC or WCC, Coach Rose will have BYU winning 20+ games and
playing in the Big Dance every year.
It's funny how the haters are out in force predicting a loss to SDSU after a
hard-fought game against the Rams. Kinda sounds like the rumors and promises of
a pending Cougar collapse against the Aztecs last month after a tough match-up
in Ft. Collins? But we all know how that game turned out don't we?
I actually really like hedgie and chrissy or any ute fan passionately disliking
and hoping for the Cougs to lose....I say that because I feel just as passionate
towards BSU, it seems the more I want them to fall flat and lose, the more they
win. So hedgie, chrissy, lemon ade or any ute fan...keep wishing passionately
that they lose.....It's nice to see it finally benefiting a team I actually
LonestarRunner and Bluto,You didn't answer the question. Yes, I
have a legitimate interest in what happens at BYU because I have a degree from
BYU. Again, what would have been the problem to wait at least one more year as
a member of the MWC while cooler heads prevailed and more analysis was put into
the matter? Please don't give me the bad TV deal line. We all understand that.
Again, with Hawaii as a football only member it seems to me that over time as
the MWC presidents and BYU considered the situation in more depth and civility
that they could have agreed to allow BYU to go independent in football and leave
the rest of the sports in the MWC. Yes, I did watch the Utah St. vs St Mary's
game last saturday from McKeon Pavilion and what a joke. Eight road games in
gyms like that. Blaine Fowler's comments from last night ring true. Cottonwood
High School and Salt Lake Community College have better basketball facilities
than the Wcc. I read where BYU's swimming and diving team is challenging for
another conference title. Where are they going to do that?
I think the troll in these comments is a 6th grader. Just my
DutchmanIf you don't want to hear about the bad TV deal, then you
obviously haven't been paying any attention, because the bad TV deal was the
overriding factor to BYU leaving the MWC.Waiting a year wasn't going
to change that.Adding certain teams wasn't going to change that.Even getting rid of Craig Thompson as MWC commissioner wasn't going to
change that.Leaving the MWC was the only thing that was going to get
BYU out of that bad TV deal which will exist long after BYU leaves the MWC.Boise State fans are in for a rude awakening when they find out just how
bad the MTN is.The fact is, the MWC had signed over all of their
television rights to the Comcast and the MTN, for peanuts, and the MTN wasn't
interested making any concessions.You've obviously been drinking
hedgy's red koolaid if you believe BYU leaving the MTN was a knee-jerk reaction
to Utah joining the PAC 12.BYU had been discussing and planning for
this possibility for years, long before Utah was even a glimmer in the PAC 10's
"BYU had been discussing and planning for this possibility for years, long
before Utah was even a glimmer in the PAC 10's eye."THesnortsauthority,hmmm,And so holmoe decides to make
such a haphazard decesion only days after Utah was invited to the PAC? I don't
buy it.Planning? which included two weeks of hiding under the bed
and avoiding the media while attempting desperate posion pill deals with WAC
teams? Only to be regected once again?Just admit that in the game of
musical chairs you landed on your ...
I will go ahead and say what almost all BYU fans are too stubborn or afraid to
say, Holmoe messed up. He acted too quickly. Yes, the TV deal was bad and is a
good reason to leave the MWC, but by the Deseret News own analysis the BYU
athletic dept is not in dire straights, has no red ink and is making money. So,
Holmoe's move does look like a knee jerk reaction. He could have stayed in the
MWC another year, again BYU was not losing money, while President Samuelson
worked with the other MWC presidents including U of U President Young who is a
BYU grad and still a member of the MWC to fashion an exit for BYU's football
program to independence while keeping its strong minor sports including
basketball in the MWC. The mtn. channel does not deliver exposure for football
but it does an adequate job exposure wise for the minor sports. This added time
would have allowed the MWC presidents to come together in a civil manner and
tell Craig Thompson "Stop prepping your hair and make it happen, BYU
football to independence, Hawaii football in, BYU sports to remain".
Dutchman your BYU degree was obviously not an MBA.BYU tried for 5
years to alter this TV Deal, that is on the record.They also already
proposed Independence for Football while remaining in the MWC. It was
rejected.If you call messing up, taking your TV reveunes from 1.5
million a year to 12 million, then we'll live with that mess up.If
you call being on National TV, for every game, Football and Basketball, and
having ESPN help to set your schedules, then dito to that.If you
have been around the LDS Chruch or BYU then you should know that they always
have contingency plans.They prepare....If you think they
woke up after Utah joined the Pac-12, and in 6 months, without forethought....
*forged a multimillion dollar deal with ESPN*hard wiredHD all
venues on BYU campus *built and completed a 50 million dollar state of the
art BroadcastFacility*Bought a multimillion dollar HD Truck*And got
BYU-TV into 60 million homes, basic tier, and Internationally as well Then you are beyond naive.Hedgie needs to believe BYU dances to
Utah's drummer.Reality....BYU has trumped Utah in every way.
DutchmanSpijt me, but you don't speak for any BYU fans that I know
of, and certainly not the vast majority of BYU fans who are thrilled to escape
the MTN!You and hedgehog a much alike; one a disgruntled juvenile
who hates all things BYU, and one a pretend, jilted BYU fan, who wants people to
think he was once a BYU fan, but never was, not even when he was a BYU
student.Holmoe is doing a fantastic job at BYU given the cards he's
been dealt.The sad fact is jealous, BYU haters are scared to death
that if BYU is even somewhat successful as an independent, BYU's move to
independence will steal all of Utah's PAC 12 thunder.EIGHT months
after Utah SUPPOSEDLY left BYU in their PAC 12 dust, those same Utah fans are
still here obsessing about BYU.
@HedgieTom Holmoe has 5 Super Bowl rings...He cowers to
no man or situation.What are your achievements? Seriously, you of
all people are questioning Tom Holmoe's honor?Rest assured, he
doesn't pay any attention to guys like you anonymous "nattering nabobs of
"And so holmoe decides to make such a haphazard decesion only days after
Utah was invited to the PAC? I don't buy it."I have it from
very credible sources that the decision to go independent was made about 4 or 5
years ago. The only question was when. When Utah left, the answer seemd
obvious. BYU was looking for an excuse to leave the MWC and Utah provided them
the opportunity. Unless you are in the committee that made the decision, I
doubt you know BYU's true intentions for any sports decisions they make. I only
say this because it comes from credible sources.Hope that clears up
any misconceptions about Holmoe.
byu wins by 8 because they are better on the charity stripe. they are better on
offense. their D is underated. their speed is underated,(just watch emery). one
thing that worries me is making sure they out rebound sdsu. they play a lot of
zone so rebounding could be an issue. no worries though, jimmer will get his way
Bluto / Sports authority I agree with your sentiments and I would
add the most important ingredient to the timing of BYU's departure was that BYU
stayed in the MWC because of their loyalty to Utah. BYU stayed and
protected Utah's interest, all the while subsidizing Utah's financial viability.
With full credit going to Utah for 2 BCS wins, the fact cannot be
disputed that aside from those 2 events, BYU sheltered, clothed, and fed little
No one yet has made a case why staying one more year in the MWC and working out
a soft landing for the minor sports to stay in the MWC while the football
program made an exit to independence would have been detrimental to BYU. Money
was not an issue as proven by Deseret News reports on the financial condition of
BYU athletics. Exposure for the football program is an issue but waiting one
year in the MWC while the presidents could civily discuss and resolve the matter
would have been advantageous to all parties. I am sorry that my honest
discussion of this matter resorts to calling me names and questioning my
motivations. You can call me all the names you want but you do not know me but
you are a little quick to judge my character.If Holmoe had studied
the issue for years as you claim and I do not doubt your claims then how would
taking more time and articulating the finding from those studies to the MWC
presidents have hurt the cause? Sometimes taking a step back and working things
out results in a better outcome.
"BYU stayed and protected Utah's interest, all the while subsidizing Utah's
financial viability"JDL,And then put a gun to the
head of Utah St. Nevada and Fresno - classy. Actions speak louder than words
and these actions will not be forgotten by the MWC and WAC programs.I suppose the good part about byu picking up their toys and going home is that
they'll never need to form meaningful relationships with other programs. It's
been proven to be your achilles heel.
Bluto,I'm at all worried about the Utes getting on TV. Remember,
we've been dealing with the mtn debacle as well and joined with BYU in hiring an
attorney to try to get out of that awful situation. So, any deal is better than
what we have. The situation looking for local coverage of our games is only for
one season. By the next season we will be fully integrated into the PAC-12 tv
coverage schedule and that TV coverage is due to improve by leaps and bounds as
the PAC-12 renogiates it's deal. I anticipate seeing a combo package including
a PAC-12 channel with Fox or another large network as a partner picking up
marquee games for more wide distribution. We can argue all day over who got the
better TV deal, but the bottom line is both schools have improved their
situation over what they had before.
Bluto,"Reality....BYU has trumped Utah in every way." Not
hardly.Let's break it down:Money - the Utes share of the
TV revenue from the new PAC-12 conference championship football game is enough
to compensate for the mtn revenue we got each year. In 2012 when we get a full
share of the seasons TV revenue and the bowl revenue BYU will not be able to
touch that figure even if you add up all the revenue from your basketball and TV
deals combined. Then you add to that our share of the TV revenue from
basketball....you're in dream land Bluto. Get your head out of the clouds.Competition - The Utes are in a conference with built in top 25 competition in
both football and basketball. No need to go out stumping every year to fill the
schedule. I think they Utes win out here too. Our track and gymnastics teams
aren't going to have a problem either.Running out of room....to be
JDL,"BYU stayed and protected Utah's interest, all the while
subsidizing Utah's financial viability"When U president Michael
Young, a BYU grad, and Chris Hill, the long time AD at Utah who has cultivated
great relations with many BYU administrators, were in discussions over a long
period of time with the PAC 10 presidents and new commissioner Larry Scott and
former commissioner Tom Hansen, regarding PAC 10 expansion issues how do you
know that Young and Hill were not advocating and pushing for BYU to be included
in the expanding membership? You don't, so your snide remark rings hollow. I
firmly believe and bet that Young and Hill pushed for BYU to be included, after
all the two schools have been in the same conference together since about 1920.
I believe they were disappointed that they couldn't make it happen.
Continuing on Bluto,You said BYU has the Utes trumped in every way.
I say no way.Fan interest - this may be about equal. I know BYU
fans are thrilled with the enhanced TV coverage and the new football schedules.
Basketball, not so much, but there is an improvement over what was going on with
the mtn and the MWC for both schools.TV coverage - yes, BYU will be
on ESPN more than the Utes, but ESPN doesn't control everything in college
sports. As long as we're on TV where our core fan bases are, that's what
counts. You have a more wide spread fan base due to the Church affiliation.
Ours is more regional, because it is more centered around our alumni. So a
regional TV deal suits us just fine where a national deal helps you more. I
think this is about equal.Exposure - I think we've got you here. We
will be playing top 25 teams in our conference schedules for BB and FB every
season.Recruiting - we've got you here and it is already showing.
Just look at this years classes.No you don't have us trumped in
JDL,Don't make me laugh. The bowl revenue alone from our two BCS
bowls not to mention the longest streak of bowl wins in the nation that sadly
ended this year, more than compensated for any money BYU brought to the
conference and shared with the Utes (and every other conference member). I do
agree that without adding more schools the conference could not survive without
both of us. I am also sad that the PAC-12 chose not to invite BYU. I truly
believe the PAC-12 was short sited and would have been much more enhanced by
bringing in the rivalry than trying to create one between Utah and Colorado.
But the fact that we got invited to the PAC-12 without BYU speaks volumes about
our ability to stand on our own.
Once Utah left the MWC there was no reason for BYU to stay any longer. The
reason for BYU leaving was not about money, was not about shooting any other
program in the head, it was not about picking up the toys and going home; it was
about exposure for the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints. After years of trying to play nice with Mr. Thompson and the MWC,
Independence was the natural option.
"Once Utah left the MWC there was no reason for BYU to stay any
longer"JDL,So what powerful force did Utah possess
that kept the kewgs in the MWC for so long?Could it be that BYU was
hoping to piggy back on Utah for access to the PAC? Utah was BYU's backdoor
ticket. That my friend was the "natural option".Clearly
the tds was waiting for the invitation that never came.What followed
was a series of "irrational actions" stirred by fear, jealousy and
Mormon Ute:I gave Utah credit for the two BCS bowl games but beside
those 2 games, BYU carried the conference including Utah for 3+ decades and
there shouldn't be much debate about it.I have no clue as to who sat
in on what negotiations in Utah's invitation to join the PAC 12. Had BYU been
asked to join (in my opinion) they would have, with one of many reasons, to keep
the partnership with Utah alive.They were not invited (I'm not going
to debate here, why not) so they pursued other options which included
independence. As stated in other posts, BYU was not forced or intimidated into
independence but rather kept that option open for close to a decade and all the
while developed their broadcast facilities with that plan in mind. I'm happy for Utah and the PAC 12 but what I don't understand is why all the
negative about BYU Independence.
JDL,"BYU carried the conference including Utah for 3+ decades
and there shouldn't be much debate about it."I wish both BYU
and Utah well. I believe BYU will do well as an independent. I just wish the
MWC would have allowed BYU to keep the minor sports in the conference and allow
football its independence and I wish BYU would have stuck it out a while longer
to persuade the MWC presidents in that direction. I am not trying to nit pick
here but your comment above ignores all the NCAA basketball tourney runs that
Utah made including one to the championship game that made boat loads of money
for the WAC and the MWC. I think you need to temper your beliefs that BYU has
been the sole financial provider for the league(s).
JDL,I've never said anything negative about BYU independence (you
may be confusing me with others). I only defend against those who claim BYU's
choice is so much better than Utah's and will pay so much more in dividends to
BYU than Utah will get. I have always maintained I am sad to see the schools go
different directions, because I think they are natural partners and excellent
rivals. The PAC-10 made a huge mistake, but that was beyond our control.Prior to the past decade, I agree BYU had much more success in football
than Utah. However, look at the season and bowl records for the past decade and
it's a different story. Also, Utah has more than held it's own in basketball
going all the way back to the beggining of the rivalry/partnership. So to say
BYU is the big brother who always carried Utah along is not fair or accurate.BYU's move to independence in football will be good, but unfortunately
as a result of the WAC deal falling apart the other sports will suffer.
Just a few facts:1. Officials are accountable to the board of
coaches in a conference.2. A coach can bar an official from officiating at
his teams games if he feels the official is bias. I believe they can do this to
up to three officials.3. The coaches in the MWC can fire poor
officials.4. Coaches get fired if they lose too many games.Jimmer is getting mugged on the floor.Because the poor officiating
is in the favor of the other coaches and BYU is leaving the MWC, Coach Rose has
zero recourse against the offending referees. They are going to allow Jimmer to
get killed, if that is what it takes, to "get even" with BYU (the
class of the conference) for moving on to greener pastures.
The Rock,A couple of problems with your comments:On the
officiating - against CSU even BYU's own radio comentators stated that Jimmer
plays like a football linebacker. He initiates as much or more contact than is
thrown at him. That being the case, he runs the risk of having as many fouls
called on him as would be called on the opposing players, if he insists on equal
calls.On greener pastures - for football, yes I can see that. For
basketball? I would hardly call the WCC greener pastures. As I said earlier,
BYU threw the other sports under the bus when they went independent in football.
I don't think any of the other basketball teams are out to get BYU for anything
other than their ranking. I hope they are able to eventually get their other
sports into a better conference.
Mormon Ute,I'd have to disagree with most of your analysis of who
trumps who. You listed BYU and Utah equal for fan interest, exposure, and
recruiting? That's not a very objective view. For one, Utah only beat BYU in
recruiting just this year, and that was because of many outside factors (RMs
aren't included in the ranking, Utah's needs vs BYU's needs, BYU is young while
Utah graduated a lot of important players, etc.). With thousands of nationwide
BYU fans it's difficult to claim that there would be more national interest in a
Utah-USC game than a BYU-TCU game in Cowboy stadium or BYU-Texas in Texas,
especially considering Texas and USC will likely moniter BYU's success as an
independent.I wish Utah success in the future, as well as BYU, but I
think it will take quite a few seasons before we can fully analyze the impact
these decisions had. I am positive they were both for the better-- how much
good it will do is up to how well the teams do. If Utah and/or BYU goes 6-6,
the situation isn't much better.