Dumb and Dumber. The state is going to send a fixed amount of cash to a
university (through the Regents). The amount is the same whether the university
has 15,000 students or 15,030 students. The marginal costs are so minuscule,
it's not worth discussing. So, if you have 30 extra students willing to pay the
university $5,000 in tuition, why not let them? Is it better to accept nothing
than to accept $150,000? Oh, and heaven forbid we have more educated people in
our state, regardless of their immigration status.And the line about
having to commit identity theft is complete crap.
Christy said: "They aren't 'illegal aliens', they are our fellow human
beings.... Stop all the hate. It's counter-productive."Where
is the hate? Is it hate because they disagree with your opinion? In the purest
sense of the term, these people are illegal aliens, just as much as you would be
if you were living in another country without the country's authirization. You
seem to have a disconnect in civil discourse there.Just because
people want the law enforced doesn't mean they are "haters." If I
criticize the President, that doesn't automatically make me a racist - at least
not with rational-thinking individuals. Since the LDS Church does
not allow unworthy individuals to enter its temples, should the Church be
labelled as a hater? Certainly not! Anyone can enter if they follow the rules.
This is by far a "sad" situation. I went to BYU and paid out of state
tuition. I wasn't coddled with a minority scholarship or any scholarship for
that matter (beyond the tithing-tution reduction). I worked each summer in
construction to pay for my tuition out of pocket. I suggest Reyna and the rest
of his friends do the same.
So we will not collect taxes from them, too, right? No income, sales, use, etc.
TexasMom | 9:06 p.m. Feb. 18, 2011 Flower Mound, TX Justice
says make them follow the laws of the land like everyone else. We can't pick and
choose which laws should be enforced and still have an orderly society.The "million dollar question" is how do you balance mercy and
justice in this situation? Is it even possible or can it only be one way or the
other? I pray somebody out there has the wisdom to find that balance and make
things "right". ==="I will give you a talisman.
Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the
following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may
have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any
use to him... Will it restore him to a control over his own life and destiny? In
other words, will it lead to swaraj (freedom) for the hungry and spiritually
starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt
away."Gandhi wrote this note just before his death in January
A legal resident from another state in the United States pays more than an
illegal. Makes no sense!
It's interesting reading these comments. People say it will ruin their lives,
others point out to them that they still can attend school. But will have to pay
what legal foreign students on visas pay. Others say there is no way
they can get legal, and others keep pointing out that they can, by returning
home before their 18 1/2 birthday, and wait for residency or a student visa
(they are expedited, moved to the front of the list). It's been the
same old arguments for years by those who support illegal immigrants breaking
our laws. Rationalization does not make them innocent. One time we
need to say no and mean it. Otherwise it will be yes until we lose our country.
@Janet, your wrong. A child(18 year old adult) can go back and return on a
student visa or apply for residency. Saying there is no way is
incorrect and misleading. Once they receive a masters degree they are eligible
for a special work visa that leads to citizenship. This does not
take away the right to attend school, it only making things equal between
illegal immigrants and those who come back legally on legal visas. We must make things equal for all people who want to come here from around the
world. The only way to do that is by enforcing the laws.
How come ICE or other law enforcement was not on the seen picking up these
I would like to reply to Reyna, the student who said she wanted to repay for all
we had given her. No we have NOT given you ANYTHING. You, your family, and the
others here ILLEGALLY, have stolen it all from us.
Casca - you speak of our fellow human beings as if they were cockroaches. What's that saying? Pride cometh before the fall?
By demanding immigration policing laws Utah has saved itself from further
bombardment of economic illegal aliens. By the hundreds and thousands they will
leave as they did in the Great State of Arizona, where these people had depleted
of public entitlements. Now they have diverting their attention to Colorado plus
other pliable State welfare cash to pillage Look to the Sanctuary State of
California that is still suffering from a $24 Billion dollar treasury loss, that
has is still being sacked by illegal alien settlement.. Taxpayer can investigate
truthful illegal alien welfare costs, population statistics and your chance to
fax for free the leadership in Washington at NumbersUSA
Wish n' wish we could find a way to make this work for the immigrant. Further
oppressing the oppressed, I hope, is not what we choose to do. If we have a
class of people coming here wanting to work and wanting to be educated, those
are good things. Instead of finding ways to stand in their way, saying they lack
the paperwork, by all means, let's look for ways to make it happen. If all of
our society were so inclined, we'd be a better off. Let's not seek for ways to
punish such a people. A poor class of people wanting to work? Let's not seek to
cast them out from among us. -- John Jackson
@ Janet,Are you suggesting that people cannot succeed and become
educated in other countries? I strongly disagree.Also, what do you
think happens to foreign countries as the number of good, hard-working citizens
decreases and the proportion of criminals in society increases (I assume that
you support the deportation of illegal immigrant who have committed additional,
crimes to their country of origin)? Reason would dictate that poverty rates
increases for those abroad in such a case. We should not turn a blind eye to
the effects that our choices have on those abroad.An educator who
focuses on helping only a few students in the class to learn would be considered
a failure by most standards. Choosing to help those who can afford to pay human
smugglers to sneak them into the U.S. while leaving their struggling countrymen
to deteriorating conditions is no different. In each case, helping the few at
the expense of the many makes little sense.
Hey Utah Blue Devil - When our family immigrated to the USA, we had to have a
sponsor family in the US to take on that responsibility. They agreed to provide
housing, food and any other expenses entailed until we found jobs. My dad owned
a furniture store in Germany - he was happy to help provide for his family by
working as a dishwasher at Bratton's. I was 14 years old and found a job
washing dishes. It took us 3 years to reimburse our sponsor, but then we agreed
to sponsor another family that was trying to immigrate to the US.We were
not able to afford travel costs for our entire family, so 2 or us came with our
parents and the older two came later. No gov involvement.And
speaking of how cruel we are to divide illegal families when a parent has to
return to their own country and leave their families behind. It's so not true -
that was one of the risks they took when they decided to come illegally to
America. And most important, the family members do not have to stay behind-they
can return to their country WITH their parents.
Note to self: Do not post when exhausted. I meant "discouragement leads
to desperation." See children? This is why we proofread *before* we post.
@Rebel-Aggie: Right on! As an educator, I know that people have to be able to
see a way out before they will put forth great effort. "You can't succeed.
You don't deserve to succed." These messages just lead to despair, and
despair leads to desperation, and desperation quickly leads to a breaking of the
rules. It is short-sighted even for the most self-centered society not to help
people out of the cycle of poverty and hopelessness that so often leads to
crime. I am weary of explaining this, but for the child who was born in Mexico
or Central America, in particular, and brought to the U.S. during his or her
developmental years, going "back" would mean exile, not repatriation.
Such a child has little-to-no way of "becoming legal" in the present
system, little chance of getting more than a high-school education (regardless
of academic performance), and almost no chance of becoming legally employed. If
that doesn't lead to desperation, I don't know what does.
Unless you marry a citizen, chances are you won't get a legal status here: visa,
work, don't even think about green card. It is unfortunate they came with no
visa at all (crossing the border) or with tourist visas and not coming back to
their countries. But they did it because in the past people not only ignore the
problem but actually encourage it (remember giving ss#s to everybody when
requesting a utah driver license?) Now, we are all living the consequences.
Thanks to all those legislators who voted to repeal this act. Even the original
co-sponsor of the Dream Act is having second thoughts (as he nears re-election
time) about it so it is time to repeal it. Doesn't make sense that a US citizen
from Preston, Idaho who goes to Logan a few miles away has to pay out of state
tuition while someone from Tapachula, Mexico pays in-state tuition. Tuition in
Mexico is much cheaper than here so why not go to school there?
Although I feel sorry for children when their parents commit crimes it does not
rise to the extent that the crimes can be rewarded.When someone breaks
into a house and steals things theyy should not be rewarded with keeping the
things just because they "need" it. It encourages others to break into
houses and the end game is chaos and no more property rights. It perplexes
me that big picture is missed by some. There is no justice or mercy
if chaos is permitted to be the law of the land.
Bottom line . . . . the bill passed it is now the law, debate over! This bill
does not deny a college education to anyone all it says is that if you are not
a legal Utah resident and are not in this country legally you pay out of state
tuition a perfectly reasonable requirement. The fact that one was brought here
by ones criminal parents without ones consent is an issue one needs to take up
with ones criminal parents not with society at large.
My parents immigrated, paid the price to become citizens, found work, learned
the language, and have been responsible Americans ever since. I don't look at
them as foreigners, but as full blooded Americans, adopted legally into this
great country. I will be forever indebted to them for their sacrifice and due
diligence in coming here legally. My parents actions and example gave me more
than my citizenship, they taught me to quit making excuses, to quit looking for
ways around the law, any law. Learn the law to live by it and thrive under its
protective umbrella. This land is a land of opportunity, not entitlement.
With each passing moment, technological advance and outsourcing renders another
job category obsolete.Given this inexorable process, it is insane to
import immigrants en masse, thereby importing brutal competition for the
dwindling amount of jobs not yet devoured by automation or globalism.
The greatest tragedy of all is how those who are unable to pay human smugglers
are impacted when our nation turns a blind eye toward illegal immigration.
Hunger, oppression, and suffering abroad only increase as our nation drains less
fortunate nations of their "good, hard-working citizens." Poor
nations will continue to get worse as long as rich nations allow illegal
immigration to go unchecked.In this case, by helping the few, our
nation is condemning the many.
This is a disgrace to dismantle the bird feeder. Not!
Isn't it amusing when the gravy train stops running!Those who want others
to pay for their well being cry like babies when the spicket is turned off. It
is called redistribution of wealth and I am tired of paying. Many of those
illegals come here just to suck of the public and it is finally catching up with
them! Go legislature!
This young man can go to college in another country, it may cost more but he can
still find a way if he wants to. We can't tell out of state students who are
citizens that they have to pay more but an illegal from Mexico doesn't. Bleeding
heart liberals need to tackle that one instead of crying about illegals all the
time. Wait until it is your kid who pays up while an illegal takes a spot for
If Elder Holland came out in support for Illegal Immigrants to be able to pay
in-state-tuition, opens up my mind and thoughts of where I should stand on this
This law encouraged illegal activity. A child brought here illegally has 180
days after his/her 18th birthday to return home and come back on a student visa.
This would cost him/her double, since they would return as a foreign
student and have to pay out of state tuition. Giving in state tuition encourages
people to stay illegally, and get tuition at a taxpayer subsided discount.
Many many people tried to make their American Dream legally. Therefore, they
work hard, pay out -of-state-tuition, and work even harder try to land a job,
with a legal H visa. Then they have to wait, work even harder, pay tax, to gain
their green card. Then they have to keep waiting, fulfill all the citizen's
duty, pay tax, obey the laws, and to become an American citizen. That is the
American Dream, and that is the spirit of freedom. Trying to take a short cut
by committing illegal activities is not the spirit of American dream.
He is from Argentina!! for all those that don't know that Argentina doesn't
belong to Mexico. "is just a matter of waiting. Sooner or
later they will be arrested for a small infraction and sent back to
Mexico." said Tom_e.hardware | 10:54 a.m. Feb. 18, 2011Erda, Ut wrote: "When I hear this I put the shoe on the other foot.
Mexico would never let us go to school free....CASE CLOSED." hahaha
@Heidi71 - you are obviously disconnected with what is being taught today in
schools. We do not teach kids to revere Al Gore. We teach them the basics and
way beyond, as well, we place huge importance on being safe, respectful, and
responsible in their behavior. We want our kids to grow up to be great
citizens!@Belching Cow - 'illegal aliens' cannot vote. They cannot
work here legally, they cannot contribute to our society by paying income taxes,
and they surely cannot vote. I don't understand people like you continuing to
promote this idea.Look again at that picture of Daniel Reyna. He
doesn't look much different than my own son who grew up here - through no
'legal' thing he, nor I, ever did, but rather through some sweet serendipity.
Both boys went to school, learned how to read, learned how to count, discovered
what they were interested in. And the both of them want nothing more than to go
to college and come out the other side as productive citizens. They want to go
out into the world and contribute. "Get in line", just
This is real immigration reform. You do not encourage illegal activity.
Mercy says give them citizenship and all its benefits. It's not the children's
fault and worse, they know nothing but living here and it would be cruel to send
them back to their "mother" country where they know nobody and may not
even speak the language. Plus, many may very well become productive members of
the society. Compassion is a nobel trait.Justice says make them
follow the laws of the land like everyone else. We can't pick and choose which
laws should be enforced and still have an orderly society. Many
"legal" children in the US are also at a disadvantage due soley to
choices of their parents. Why should "illegals" get special
considerations? Plus, giving special treatment to "illegals" only
encourages more illegal immigration.The "million dollar
question" is how do you balance mercy and justice in this situation? Is it
even possible or can it only be one way or the other? I pray somebody out there
has the wisdom to find that balance and make things "right".
@Heidi71, you wrote: "I can't think of anyone who was born in the U.S. who
would illegally enter another country and expect entitlement for themselves or
their children."Of course not. That's because people born in
the U.S. have citizenship in the land of boundless opportunity. By accident of
birth, people born in the US get to live in comfortable homes with electricity,
running water, refrigerators, telephones, and other conveniences we're
accustomed to think of as necessities. Manage to be born in the United States
and you can pretty much count on a minimum of a 12th grade education (in
comparison, if you're born in Mexico, statistics say you'll top out in 8th
grade; if you're born in Guatemala, you aren't likely to complete 4th grade).Of course you wouldn't trade your standard of living for theirs. But
given the disparity, surely you can understand why someone might go to desperate
measures so their children could have a life like yours. I'm not saying it's
"right" (but then, who gets to make that determination, anyway?), but
surely you can imagine where they're coming from.
So, can someone championing the subsidy of these children please explain to me
why the children of military members, ordered here for duty are not eligible for
in-state tuition? They are here legally, by order of the US Government. The
military parents buy homes, pay taxes on those homes, contribute to the
community in many ways, yet they cannot get the in-state tuition because they
aren't residents. So, why do you want to give that same in-state tuition to
illegals who are not here legally and as such are not residents?Somebody? Anybody have that answer?
If they don't come here the right way they definately aren't entitled to my tax
dollar.Thank you all in SLC on your hard work to get it repealed.
I think it's funny they listed the number of 'non-citizen' students. There are
many who are non-citizens and legal... lol. Illegal does not equal non-citizen.
@Midwest Mom,The lamp is lit beside the golden door, not near the
back fence or a window. The only way in which our immigration laws are broken
is that they are not enforced. Just think through things:-The U.S.
is incapable of supporting every person in the world who wants to come here, so
limits must be placed on the number allowed to immigrate.-It is
sensible for those who want to come here to be screened for criminal history,
terrorist ties and deadly and contagious diseases, therefore our nation should
not reward those who circumvent such a screening process, especially with
benefits that not all citizens enjoy (like in-state tuition).-In any
attempt to register those who are here, those who know they will not pass a
background check will choose to remain in the shadows anyway.
Well Daniel Reyna and others like him, BECOME LEGAL CITIZENS OF THE U.S. or
become "DOCUMENTED", it's pretty simple! It's not our fault your
parents came here ilegally, IT'S THEIRS! They OWE YOU THE EDUCATION, Not the
United States! It is very unfortunate, I don't disagree with that, but you can't
expect to punish U.S. citizens for your parents breaking the law! It's pretty
sad the state didn't escort you home to pick them up and send them back to
Argentina! I feel badly, I really do, but there are LEGAL WAYS TO DO THINGS and
NOT SO LEGAL ways to do things. Become a citizen or move to California, they
will help you out!
The Utah educational system and Reynas parents have both failed to teach him
common sense. I can't think of anyone who was born in the U.S. who would
illegally enter another country and expect entitlement for themselves or their
children. Since his parents have been living here illegally for so many years,
I wouldn't expect them to teach him not to expect entitlements for being
illegal. Unfortunately, our public school system doesn't teach
"good citizenship" anymore. They teach that "diversity" is
good (diversity means to embrace illegal immigrants and learn their language)
and that because of man-made global warming, we need to bankcrupt the coal and
oil drilling industries. That nonsense passes as Social Studies nowadays.The Reynas and others like them need to get in line and do what needs to
be done to be legal and stop expecting more ridiculous entitlements that only
illegal aliens get from our tax funds.
gee I was brought by my parents to another state, and my kids are from another
state but to send my son to uvu it was 4000 00. vs 1300 for in state. These guys
should pay out of country tuition, since they are here illegally. They won't
even talk about why that is wrong.
@Christy"I find the utter lack of compassion by the majority of these
posters appalling."It isn't lack of compassion it is common
sense. Why does a US citizen from another state have to pay higher tuition that
someone who is here illegally? Where is your compassion for those who work hard
to come here legally only to get shafted by those coming in the back door? Why
are we rewarding criminal behavior? Yes our immigration laws need overhauled
but that should not be an excuse to reward those breaking our laws. The real
reason illegal aliens are getting hand outs is to buy votes. The bottom line is
it's all about votes and power. Where is your compassion for US citizens
scraping make ends meet while all their money is going to support entitlement
programs exploited by illegals? Your the one who has no compassion.
Oh my, I can't believe I wrote fill instead of feel. I think I must need more
I've heard some impassioned please from Doug Wright and others regarding this
subject. They fill that paying for college for these kids is the "right
thing to do." That's great that you feel that way, folks, so start a
foundation and pay for these kids to go to college. Get donations from
like-minded people, and help these kids along.Why take my money, and the
money from others to fund your pet projects. I'd rather spend my money to help
my adult daughter get through college.
I see where the boy is with his illegal standing, but seriously - if it were any
other country, the country would also make the same decision and not reward the
illegal status and give the money away. How about making it easier
for the illegal immigrants to actually become citizens? Why not pave the road
first, before traveling on it?
Well there's an easy way to keep BYU and the Church from allowing them to do
this. One of the Articles of Faith tells us we have to obey the law of the land.
That includes the LDS Church and BYU. If they are there illegally then both the
Church and BYU have a responsibility by law to report them to ICE. Sorry LDS
Church, but you can't have it both ways.
This is great. Now, stop educating them at any level and this tiny part of the
system will be fixed! Want smaller class size? Deport an illegal!
Ohhhhh, I am so in the minority...If you are hard-core
anti-immigrant, send back those that are problems. The hard-working, honest,
amnisty-made citizens are harder on the "chollos", law breaking
illegals than you.But kids that want to stay, to produce, that want
to pay taxes on what they earn, that want to be, and are college educated...
Come on.I have many friends from CA that were illegal, that are now
teachers, principals, that are producing.Why deny those that want to
learn, get a degree, and pay taxes the right to gaining citizenship?A knee-jerk decision, and a bad one.Now, dump on me, but I say
give the ones that want to pay back to the community a chance....
No subsidies for illegal aliens and their children. That should be the
consequence for those who ignore the laws of our land and enter illegally. We
owe them nothing. They should just be grateful we don't go to the bother to
deport them all.
I appreciate Daniel Reyna's situation and wonder about the K-12 educational
process in Utah. How long has Daniel, his parents, teachers, and perhaps
spiritual leaders known that he was here in the United States illegally, even if
he was brought here when he was too young to remember? Someone should have
worked with him and other students in his situation to start the process to
become citizens of the United States. if that process has been ongoing, then I
would support students like him to receive in-state tuition. Does anyone know
at what age a child or teen can begin the citizenship process?
Thank you, Midwest Mom. I find the utter lack of compassion by the majority of
these posters appalling.Our immigration laws are broken and need
fixing. We need to start with common sense and compassion because most of our
fellow human beings streaming in from the south are good, hardworking people.
Someone said, "well, wooopdeedoo!" that all they pay is
sales tax. So why don't we fix that by creating a pathway to citizenship, by
allowing them to work legally and actually pay taxes! But we can't
do that, right? That just makes too much sense. And DO NOT reply
to me by comparing them with bank robbers and murderers. Were YOUR ancestors
who came to this country thieves and killers?
NO! NO! NO! Illegal, is illegal, is illegal. Whatever happened to obeying the
laws of the land? Maybe education would be better if we weren't spending our
money on illegals.
It's sad to see so many hate-filled comments aimed against a powerless group of
children who know no other home than this. Such closed-minded hatred is hard to
witness.Do we really think that denying a break to 643 students is going
to solve the immigration problem? If anything, the state's schools are going to
lose out because rather than pay the added tuition, the students will just drop
out and the state won't even get in-state tuition. Lighten up. There are
bigger problems to worry about.
Funny how the state has no problem coming up with funds to incarcerate. If
there is no perk in being a good, hardworking kid, then why bother?I
know, I know. Most of you had pioneer ancestors who busted their backsides to
get you and yours comfy in Zion, but that was their sacrifice, not yours. These kids are the pioneers of today. It is UN-AMERICAN to turn them
away, especially the ones who try so hard.Give me your tired, your
poor,Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,The wretched
refuse of your teeming shore.Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to
me,I lift my lamp beside the golden door!But not in Utah? Not
for those south of the border?Shame.
@NP, was the 2002 legislature also "the enemy within," traitors to our
country? They passed the law in the first place.Regarding
"CHOICES", why don't you explain to my Aleut friends from St. George
Island, Alaska how their own bad choices led to their evacuation "for their
own safety" during World War II to squalid internment camps where many died
and many more got sick. Explain what bad choices led to American soldiers
trashing their homes in their absence. Then explain how, in spite of the
apparent threat to their safety, the US government brought several of the young
men back in the middle of the war and forced them to do the backbreaking work of
harvesting, butchering, and blubbering seals. Explain how it's the Aleuts'
fault that the federal government governed (read: micromanaged) the Pribilof
Islands and owned virtually everything on those islands up until the 1980s.
Explain the bad choices that led to the whites punishing Aleuts for speaking
their language, which is now moribund (which I'm sure is the Aleuts' fault).
Yep, all that "oppression" is nothing more than the natural
consequences of Aleuts' bad choices--lots of them, apparently.Yeah,
Sad situation for the children, but blame the parents and make THEM pay the
extra tuition. That was their choice when they came here illegally. Giving
them a break is not fair. Besides, as it was mentioned in the article, they
still have to commit identity theft to get a job here with that degree, so how
does that benefit Utah tax payers that are subsidizing them?
I truly feel bad for these young people, but as the saying goes, the sins of the
parents on the heads of the children. I have made mistakes in my life and it
affected my child. Trials help us to grow, I know that this is hard for these
young people to go through this disappointment, but they can use this as a
growing experience. I have a son in law, and four step sons that did not get
any college and they make far more then their father was making when he retired
having four years of college, but no degree.
This is a no-brainer...pretty sad that it even had to be considered.
The immigration system is not broken. I've witnessed dozens of people have
virtually no problems. We have student VISAs, work VISAs, temporary VISAs
especially for migrant workers. We have what illegal immigrants are looking
for--they just need to apply!Sure it takes awhile to process. It
takes me several weeks/months to get a passport, just so I can VISIT other
countries. We're not asking too much, here, to expect potential immigrants to
register with our country. All legal citizens are registered!Today
is a great first step to discourage illegal immigration. We are condoning
criminal activity by extending taxpayer handouts through college.
I hope that this does not pass. It doesn't make sense to punish the children of
immigrants as they try to get an education to better themselves and their
families. Chances are that their children will also go to college as well.
The right thing to do would be to create a path to citizenship for these kids as
for many of them this is the only home they have known. But so long as we stay
polarized on this issue, there won't be a reasonable answer.The last
thing we need to do if flush out all the ones here that are trying to gain a
peace of the American dream and leave behind only those who have disregard for
the law. Create a way for those who are willing to go through the process. But
as it stands now, the cost for citizenship is about $14,000 - and don't go off
telling me your great grandparents had to come up with that large sum of money
to become citizens - because they didn't.We need reasonable
solutions - not this petty pandering type of legislation.
Illegal is illegal. I suppose when drugs come over the border, they're not
illegal drugs, but, prescriptions for suffering human beings. That tends to be
the logic here.It's not young girls that are being forced into
prostitution against their will. These are human beings that are doing jobs
americans don't want.It's not illegal immigrants, they're people who
want a better life picking vegetables, living in shanty towns on the farm, being
paid under the table.They contribute to our tax base very heavily!
they're not paying property taxes, California doesn't have a food tax, if they
get an illegal car without insurance to drive then they'll pay tax on gas, they
don't have to pay for healthcare we provide it free of charge, and they get a
tax return for stealing a ssn and sending in their "taxes" which is
below the standard earnings and with the child tax deduction they make another
2-3 k thanks to re-distribution of wealth.But they deserve it more
than those that actually pay taxes and work.
So instead of thanking Utah citizens for subsidizing their K-12 education, the
shadow people want MORE.
I came to USU from out of the country. Guess what I had to do? They required me
to get a student visa. Once I had a student visa, I was able to attend. But I
wasn't a resident of Utah. So, I had to pay out of state tuition. I really don't
get why illegal immigrants seem to get more rights than those people that are
trying to do the right thing. If they think they can't pay for the
tuition, then get a job. There are plenty of students, that work while they go
to school and find ways. Why do people always want the easy way out of their
problems and get baby'd so much? And illegal is still illegal. Get a
student visa first. It's not that difficult.
Way to go Rep. Wimmer! You have proved that you don't need to be educated to be
a well-rounded citizen.
@Christy"They aren't 'illegal aliens', they are our fellow human
beings. "They are 'illegal aliens' and that is a fact. Yes
they are our fellow human beings but the are also 'illegal aliens'. They have
broken our laws."They purchase things like clothing, furniture,
and food, so they do pay taxes."Well wooopdeeeedoooo. They
extract a lot more money that they put in."Stop all the hate.
It's counter-productive."Maybe you should start with yourself.
I've seen quite a few hateful comments that you have posted. Just the other day
you spouted off calling members of the predominant Utah religion 'hypocrites'.
I found that very hurtful. We are not hypocrites but your fellow human beings.
On the other hand: "your European ancestors made no attempt to learn the
language and culture of the Americas"I will not attempt to
condone what was done to the American Indians.But I will learn from
history. And it is clear that when two incompatible cultures
collide, one of them is going to lose. And the losers tend not to fair very
well at the hands of the winners.Maybe you think the latino culture
currently growing in this nation is inherently more benevolent than was/is the
European culture of 300 years ago. But I won't bet my or my children's future
on it.I will not sign myself or my posterity up to be the losers in
the next great cultural war. I'd prefer to avoid that war. US culture north of
the river, latin culture south. Good fences and all that.If you
come here, assimilate. If you won't want to assimilate, don't emigrate.Tragic that parents would put their kids in such a spot. But we simply
cannot continue to provide incentives for coming and staying here illegally. It
isn't 1492 anymore. Deal with reality.
Shame on Utah.
It just blows my mind this is even being discussed. Give illegal aliens in
state tuition when legal US citizens can't even get this deal? Really!?!? Are
there people dumb enough to believe this is ok?
Liberal Ted writes, "The LDS church encourages people to learn the culture
and language of the country they reside in. Something illegals refuse to do
here."Daniel Reyna would be surprised to get that little news
flash. This whole time he thought he was speaking perfect American English and
integrating into American culture.Here's one more news flash: your
European ancestors made no attempt to learn the language and culture of the
Americas. Instead, they herded off the natives like cattle. But I'm sure
that's okay because you're special and Daniel Reyna isn't.
@Eliot 12:50 p.m.: "I am wondering how you can pay into social security
without a social security number. If an illegal alien has a social security
number it must belong to someone else."There's alotta children
out there racking up allota SS credits unbeknownst to them. They won't know
about it until they ask the SS Administration for a printout of their SS wages
or get ready to retire and find they've put in 80 to 90 years of work.If there are any illegals out there who needs a SS number give me a jingle.
I need a few more quarters to get my minimum forty quarters to qualify for
benefits when I reach retirement age.---------------@Halach Huinic 11:41 a.m.: "Restricting educational opportunities for
anyone under any circumstance strikes at the heart of community life."Not everyone needs to go to college... especially illegals. If they
want to go to college let them return to their country of origin and attend
colleges there. I'm sure there are colleges in other countries. And tuition is
more likely much cheaper.
A few things...They aren't 'illegal aliens', they are our fellow
human beings. They purchase things like clothing, furniture, and
food, so they do pay taxes.They're here. They're not leaving.
Their children are innocent and want only to better themselves. And when they
do, it benefits us all.Stop all the hate. It's counter-productive.
@Madden: "US immigration is broken."It's only broken to
those who are here illegally and want amnesty to stay. We have a perfectly good
and reasonable immigration system for those who do it right. We take in
approximately 1 million immigrants per year, legally.And, by the way
if the system is broken it is because we take too many immigrants in. We have
no work for them. We are already spending billions on unemployment benefits
paid out to non working Americans.---------@Rebel-Aggie:
"So instead of helping young people to exit the cycle of crime and
poverty, we are going to keep them out of our colleges..."What?? Are you joking?? We don't need criminals in our colleges. There are
plenty of American citizens who would like to go to college and can't. They
don't need more competition from foreigners. They are already competing for
Americans' jobs.---------------@Considering: "We
cannot afford to encourage the next two generations of law breakers to enter or
remain in our nation illegally by refusing to make the hard choices
now."You got that right. And the only way to discourage
illegal immigration is to get tough.
As a member of the church and alumni, I will continue to pay tithing regardless
the Church Educational System allows illegals to get a college education. These
are kids who were brought here by their parents. I think it's not ethical to
deny them that opportunity neither I think that our Savior would approve it.
Parents are another matter, but the kids can't be punish especially if they are
doing their part to keep themselves out of trouble and outstanding citizens.
I used to work for a big restaurant chain here in Utah as a payroll clerk.
Everybody had a ssn, everybody paid social security and taxes (most of them M-5
to M-7). When January came, what a surprise to see a box full of W2s. I asked
about it and I was told those were returned W2s. Now, when reporting to the
Social Security, the company sends the list of "employees" with their
"SSn" and the amount to transfer. Social Security gets the list, the
money and everybody happy. They don't check the ssn, they just get the money no
questions asked. Same happens with IRS. So, when somebody says illegals keep SS
afloat, that is not far from the truth. And just if you are
wondering, I was terminated after asking too much about those W2s. But I do know
for sure, the money did go to SS.
"If HB191 were to pass, my being able to go to college would be nearly
impossible.."Why on earth do you think you need to go to
college? There are beds to make and fruit to pick. Did you forget that
illegals are here to do the work that American workers won't do? That's what we
are told, anyway... by George Bush no less.We have 15 million
unemployed Americans with valid citizenship papers. We don't need you to go to
college or even take a job. My advise to you is to go to your country of
origin, get some citizenship papers, fill the papers out, and get in line.
Poqui, as an international student who attended BYU, I can tell you with 100%
certainty that BYU does not allow international students to attend BYU without a
student visa. Applicants have to disclose whether they are US citizens,
permanent residents or international students. Illegals who attend BYU lie about
their immigrant status!!
@ "On the other hand" - How can Illegals pay taxes if the
are not employed?How do they get jobs?Law after law is
broken by those coming here illegally!All problems are solved by
having people immigrate legally, but every time and every person that crosses a
border without obeying the law adds 10 fold to the problems of this country.If we are to help our brothers and sisters we must be strong and on
solid ground ourselves. Creating a weak America by allowing ILLEGAL immigration
is a never ending, sad, problem.I choose a strong America, NO to any
benefit for ILLEGALS.
Many thanks to the legislators' who are stepping up to the plate and actually
TRYING to deal with the illegal trespassing problem.Revoking
"driving privilage" cards is another good step that could be taken.Illegal immigrants need to return to their homeland and try to improve
THEIR OWN country instead of continually depleting the resources of Utah and the
rest of the nation.
I guess if my parents steal a Porsche off the lot at Strong's and give it to me
in three years and I didn't know they stole it?....I should be able to keep that
car according to the LIBS!
"In fact, illegal immigrants are credited with keeping social security
afloat, since so many of them pay in and none of them will ever reap any of the
program's benefits."I am wondering how you can pay into social
security without a social security number. If an illegal alien has a social
security number it must belong to someone else. If payments to social security
are made with that number aren't they credited to the person to whom the number
rightfully belongs? How then does payment by the illegal worker keep social
security afloat? Furthermore, this example serves as strong support for taking
care of the illegal problem because not only are legal residents taken advantage
of, but the illegals are exploited as well. I am all for legislation that
discourages illegal behavior.
Poqui | 11:31 a.m. Feb. 18, 2011 Murray, UTWhat makes you
think the LDS church has endorsed for illegals to come here illegaly? They have
never said that. They just asked that whatever happens that it is done
compasionately.So let's lovingly put these people on buses and ship
them back.The LDS church also states that people should follow the
laws of the land. Which illegals violate as soon as they crossed the border, and
now refuse to leave.The LDS church encourages people to learn the
culture and language of the country they reside in. Something illegals refuse to
do here.So, trying to pull the 'LDS card' to make people feel sorry
for you isn't going to work.If you go to byu you have to sign their
honor code. I'm sure it states that you'll live the standards and teaching of
the church. If you're here illegaly then you have violated your honor code.Why is it that illegals have a hard time understanding honesty,
integrity, respect?When I went to foreign countries I learned their
language and respected their law & culture. Just asking for the same here.
So instead of helping young people to exit the cycle of crime and poverty, we
are going to keep them out of our colleges and on our streets, ensuring that
they and their kids join gangs and commit crimes.Great job
In the case of Reyna and others like him, who do not even remember coming here.
It they are good citizens in General. You might have to consider Green Card
Status.Mostly because these folks had no idea what was going on, and
may never had been told.Being mostly about the kids, you also have
to be fair. The lawv is the law but not without common sence.I am
still for deporting the parents.
This is a very simple problem. They are Illegal and do not belong here. They
should Not be accepted by any school of any learning.I am shocked
that the Vote was 10-5, it should have been 15-0.If one of them
comes to register for school, the person doing the paper work should excuse
themselfs and call the police and have them arrested.If they stole
ID then they committed a crime and you can deport them as Crimanals.If found out they should lose all credits and Graduation. In short it does not
count. I also think that if the School in question knows about it
they should be fined.Unless of course you have a 100mph fastball and
pinpoint control.The idea of even setting a charge for illegals is
total dumb and needs to be against the Law.If they Merry an American
an investigation need to be done on the True Status of the the Marriage.The only was you can prove a Marriage is not a shame is to produce a
child and prove bloodline.A lot of guys and girls are promised hope
and nothing more. This also breaks laws.
As a high school educator let me toss this one in. If our state legislature
truly wanted to make a stand against the federal government they would pass a
law prohibiting the enrollment of any student at the K-12 level who could not
show proof of US citizenship thru birth. Let's see how long that one would stand
up in court. Instead they propose laws that do nothing more than pander to their
own reelection interests that play to unfounded fear.
I really think our State has bigger education problems then 648 undocumented
students receiving in-state tuition.
Let us remember that NOBODY in the legislature and virtually nobody else is
calling for anything but compassion. Nobody is suggesting draconian punishment
for violating our immigration laws: we are NOT talking about locking up people
for long terms, forced hard labor, or even future disqualification to enter the
nation legally. All we want is for the current lawbreaking to end.Think of it this way, when you get stopped for speeding and the officer gives
you a warning and tells you slow down, do you think him harsh or
non-compassionate for not letting you continue to speed? Of course not.There is no doubt that our own inaction on immigration since Reagan made
the mistake of amnesty 30 years ago has contributed to the problem. But when
you find yourself in a deep hole, you've got to stop digging. We
cannot afford to encourage the next two generations of law breakers to enter or
remain in our nation illegally by refusing to make the hard choices now.It would have been easier 30 or even 20 years ago. Yes, we messed up.
We HAVE to fix it now by getting serious about enforcement.
@Liberal Ted and others, many illegal immigrants do pay taxes. In fact, illegal
immigrants are credited with keeping social security afloat, since so many of
them pay in and none of them will ever reap any of the program's benefits.@Lost in DC, when we prosecute embezzlers, nothing precludes us from
helping their innocent family members.
It's high time the Utah legislature started passing bills that will discourage
illegals from coming here. Hopefully we will see more in the newar future, with
Sandstrom's bill passing.
I'm glad this bill made it out of committee. There is no reason why tax payers
should be paying for the education of illegal aliens. This only encourages the
parents to come here illegally, and encourages the students to get jobs
illegally when they finish college.
Restricting educational opportunities for anyone under any circumstance strikes
at the heart of community life. Somehow this heartless drive to root out all
illegal immigrants at any cost has got to be reined in. Destroying a village to
save it was wrong in Vietnam, and it is wrong in Utah.
Wow, I never noticed that Rep. Wimmer was Pat Bagley's model for his recurring
Utah Legislator characters. I thought those strange looking little cartoons
were composites, but Mr. Bagley is clearly channelling Rep. Wimmer. I must have
always been unfamiliar with the features of the representative to have never
before noticed this uncanniness.
Wowzers..! Harsh responses to a plea for compassion. The LDS Church plea for
compassion has sure fallen on deaf ears here in Utah.Their best
option is to attend LDSBC and BYU that don't charge out of state tuition. Most
of the illegals I know are planning on taking that route from now on. So I
guess the LDS Church will come through and help the children of illegals by
educating them. So, if you're Mormon, your tithing is helping educate the
children of illegals. Thanks! Keep paying your tithing!
A is just a matter of waiting. Sooner or later they will be arrested for a small
infraction and sent back to Mexico.
A good start to correct an injustice for the taxpaying citizens of Utah.The American born children of illegal parents are being hurt, but the
blame is on their parents, not Utah taxpayers.The true beneficiaries
of the "in state tuition" program have been the illegal parents, since
parents almost always are the real payers for college anyway. Never
reward bad or illegal acts.
PoquiTheir status as ILLEGAL aliens "condemns them to lesser
jobs"But how can they have ANY lega job as illegals?And WE are not the ones doing any condemnation; it was their PARENTS who
condemned them by their illagel act.Does the embezzler's family
suffer because they have to pay restitution and go to prison for embezzling?
yes, but that does not mean we should not prosecute embezzlers.
Madden, the US immigration is not broken. What is broken is the enforcement of
our immigration law.Cats, we already have a guest worker program. It is
called the H visa.Poqui, could you explain why us taxpayers would have to
pay for these babes' parents' short-sightedness?
Wimmer is correct; we should not subsidize illegal behavior.
When I hear this I put the shoe on the other foot. Mexico would never let us go
to school free....CASE CLOSED.
Nothing short sighted here. The univeristy is subsidized through tax payer
dollars. Illegals DO NOT pay taxes. Therefore they shouldn't benefit from the
system. We should give first priority to people who sacrifice working two-three
jobs to put their kids through college. Not for illegals who cross the border,
work illegally, drive down wages, steal identities and do not contribute to the
tax revenue of the state.What they need to do. Is to go home, and
apply to come here legally. Then they can get grants, scholarships, in state
tuition etc.Besides college will be cheaper in their home countries
than in state tuition is here. That will be great for them and they'll speak
their native language to them and they can fly their flag!!Nothing
but ups on this bill!
This is a sad situation and I think we are all conflicted about it. But, it
isn't fair for illegals to get instate tuition when American citizens from other
states have to pay out-of-state tuition. These children are victims
of the fact that their parents chose to bring them here illegally. It's really
sad, but something has to be done to get this situation cleared up. We need to
get a workable guest worker program that makes it possible for people to come
here legally. In the meantime, it's not right for the taxpayers to
subsidize this situation. I hope this will create more pressure to get our
immigration problems resolved.
Poqui...no one is condemned. They will be like the other thousands of out of
state residents who attend school in Utah. Unless you think it would be good to
have all out of state residents pay instate tuition and make us taxpayers
subsidize anyone who comes here for school.
Good. I hope this gets fully repealed this year. When the State is struggling
with a budget deficit and Universities are discussing enrollment caps, it
doesn't make sense to spend millions to subsidize the tuition for illegal aliens
who may not legally utilize that education to obtain work here.
This bill may have come out of committee but will not become law.
Once again condemning children who were brought here illegally as babes in arms
to lesser jobs when they don't know any other culture than the one they were
raised in. How short sighted!
And that is essentially the problem:"In order for them to work they
have to commit identity theft."US immigration is broken. Giving
in-state tuition is such a waste UNTIL they fix the rest of the system. And
granting in-state tuition is certainly a nod to the wink-wink immigration
enforcement we have.Too bad our Congress does not have the
intestinal fortitude to find a way to get these immigrants here legally through
some compromise. Instead they will continue to be either reviled by too many
citizens or abused by too many businesses, immigrant right groups and crooks.