"Somewhat supporting" is twisting that statistic until it screams what
Interestingly, many of us may support the Utah Compact, but the Utah Compact has
absolutely nothing to do with addressing the issues brought to us via illegal
immigration. The Utah Compact is completely independent from illegal
immigration.The argument that most of us support the Utah Compact
and therefore support some kind of pathway for illegal immigrants is absolutely
It is gratifying to see that Utahns mostly support the Pact. Now, for some
questions. Why is it that the a minority of Utahns oppose the Compact, but a
majority of these posts support it? Why is it that Utah legislators seem to
listen mostly to the minority, hate crowd that oppose the Compact? Why is it
tht much of the opposition cite the 12th Article of Faith, but ignore the fact
that the LDS Church supports the Compact?
@ Ajax,Two issues with your argument. 1. Mormons were U.S. Citizens,
not illegals. 2. This issue has nothing to do with discrimination or racism, as
much as the pro amnesty crowd would like it to be so.There may be a
fringe element that is racist but lets not try to condemn the majority of
Americans who would just like to see our immigration laws enforced. A
much more viable solution would be to enforce existing laws by punishing the
employers of illegals. The Utah Compact holds the signatures of many of those.
Take away the employment incentive and illegals will self deport.
Utah, and the LDS Church, need to reconsider their positions on this HUGE issue.
Illegal Immigration is against the LAW. As citizens of the United States we
are bound to these Federal Laws and our State Leaders have a responsibility to
UPHOLD these laws. If they disagree with a law there are proper avenues to
pursue a change.Illegal Immigration is a safety, security, economic
and cultural issue. Illegal Immigrants are rarely ever the people we WANT in
the United States, they are typically without skill, education and often fleeing
Mexico to avoid criminal prosecution. They then REFUSE to learn English,
instead creating cultural divides among Americans for issues we should not even
have to address.More disappointing is the Churches stance - what
happened to "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and
magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." There is NO
GRAY area here - not CONDEMNING illegal immigration is in conflict with the 12th
Article of Faith.
"And just as curious is their angry rejection of what everyone should know
by now: that the assumption that undocumented immigrants come to rob and to
plunder and that any gain on their part must come at our expense is demonstrably
false."I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and
assume that you just haven't done your homework. The fact is that identity
theft (the robbing part) and fraud (the plundering part) are common amongst the
illegal population. In fact, in some studies it is suggested that upwards of 70
percent have committed at least some sort of fraud. The kicker here is the fact
that they generally look to steal the identity of Children and preferably
children of hispanic decent.
Forgive me for repeating myself, but there was a time in Idaho when it was
illegal for Mormons to vote, hold government office or even serve on a jury.
Other discriminatory laws against Mormons remained part of the Idaho
constitution until all were rescinded in 1982.Lucky for we Mormons
in Idaho at the time there was no stiff opposition stuck on the absolutism of
past legalities: no taunting like "What is it you don't understand about
the law?" Nor was there defiant resistance to fully inclusive civil rights
such as by Alabama governor George Wallace who in the early 1960s proclaimed,
"Segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever." He
later apologized.Truth be told, a workable and beneficial
immigration policy for 12 million or so undocumented immigrants without room for
any measure of amnesty is not possible. To blindly insist otherwise is to
effectively close the door on any chance of meaningful immigration reform and,
judging from recent polling, an insult to most Utahns.
Tp Halach: some illegals come to rob and plunder, but that is not the point. The
point is that ALL illegals are here... illegally! The question is, why do some
people demand special treatment for them? Legal immigrants like myself followed
the rules - waited for years for an immigrant visa to become available and paid
thousands in legal and immigration fees to remain legally in the US. Why should
they be treated differently? Just because they are already here? I don't think
so. By treating them differently, we are sending the wrong message to all future
immigrants: there is no point in following the rules - if you cheat, you will
still get a green card or citizenship. That is absolutely wrong.
To Ajax, so if I interpret you right, you refer to the harm caused by illegal
immigration is what is harming our society? Likewise if immigration
is done legally then we all benefit. I agree with that logic. Doing
things the right way is always best.
I agree with the comment of Halach Huinic that the well-being of others and
ourselves are inextricably linked. One of life's secret's is that the success
of others is likewise our success and that when we harm others we harm
Wouldn't it be more politically correct to have an "All Human Day"?
That seems less discriminatory than having a faux Latino Day celebration. We
already have Cinco de Mayo that celebrates latinos military defeat in Mexico.Maybe we should throw big celebrations on the anniversaries when
California, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas etc were liberated from the
tyranny of Mexico....Just an idea.
Why the Sandstrom crowd wants to believe that a pound of flesh is the answer to
the problem of undocumented immigration is suspicious. And just as
curious is their angry rejection of what everyone should know by now: that the
assumption that undocumented immigrants come to rob and to plunder and that any
gain on their part must come at our expense is demonstrably false. So why the need to compound the suffering of the undocumented with pharisaic
quibbling over crime and punishment?Difficult to understand but true
is that the the well-being of others and ourselves are intertwined.
Let it go Deseret news, no one is buying the propaganda. The compact is a cry
for amnesty like the one we gave in 1986. An attempt to open borders between the
US and Mexico, destroying our Constitution. It's saying bank robbers
are doing nothing different than people who make a legal withdrawal from their
@Ajax, Frankly your insults wrapped in a wordy post leads one to assume that
you have spent very little time looking at the real problems related to illegal
immigration and a whole lot of time drinking the media elites cool aid. You call Sandstrom's plan a punitive one designed to purge us of "all
undocumented foreign 'devils'". Devils? Really? Those are your words,
not his nor anyone else who has posted on this topic. To try to lay that
racially charged term at his or anyones feet is a shameful and despicable
tactic. You also attempt to claim the higher ground of compassion. Lawlessness and compassion can never coexist. Compassion for lawlessness is
usually self serving and only employed in an attempt to maintain the status quo
(the real point of the Utah Compact). To show true compassion would mean
acknowledging all the damage illegal immigration does to Legal Citizens.
27% agree with it, the rest question it. That sounds about right. Somewhat favor
does not mean they are in favor, but may agree with certain parts. The title is misleading.
@Hardknocks: I am in the same place with the same thought process.
"We" the people have a better outlet to voice our thoughts now.The issue still holds true It was wrong then, it's wrong today. The compact is nothing you claim it to be. It skirts the issue, makes
obeying the law a matter of choice. It try's to convey a tone of respect, while
really doing nothing to help. Immigration is not about countries, it's about
people. States are the place where the people are governed. Most people who have
read the compact and understand what it says are baffled by its empty
rhetoric!If it is wrong today it was wrong then!
Where were all you "law and order fanatics" over the last 50 years
when this country consciously decided not to enforce our immigration laws? In
fact through the 70s, 80s, and 90s we basically hung up a big sign on the
boarder saying "Help Wanted" It was incredibly hypocritical of our
country to leave the door open, turn our heads, then profit from their
service.Now decades later, after millions of them have established
their lives here, are raising families, and don't even remember their homeland-
a segment of our society wants to send them all back. How cruel! I
say secure the boarder. Send back new comers in the last 2-3 years. then the
majority who are law abiding contributers to our society should be given a path
to legal residency.The Utah Compact is logical, compassionate, just
the right thing to do. and the great majority of Utahans DO support it!
Mary: Once again, bad law according to whom? You cite several other examples,
but fail to explain why our current immigration law is bad. Please enlighten us.
@legalimmigrant American History is replete with examples of changing bad law.
In 1773 bad law was resisted in the Boston Tea Party. And in 1776 our founders
declared their independence from this bad law. And in 1777 Vermont did away
with bad law in their state by ending slavery. As a nation we did the same with
the 13th Amendment. You can find other bad laws that no longer exist in America
because people of good will compassionately and directly worked to institute
good law, eliminating bad law. We need to do the same with bad immigration law.
Samuel Adams, Florence Kelley, Martin Luther King and others in our
history have led out in compassion against wrongs that were supported by
"legal bad law." Current law must be changed to good law that
reflects our humanity; protecting people of good will and promoting freedom,
economic prosperity and public safety in Utah. I do not believe "Off with
their heads" is the right way to solve bad law. I believe the Utah Compact
is the right way to develop and institute good law for Utah.
Polls can be designed to get the results you desire by the way questions are
worded or the sample used. It is like the old saying "figures lie, and
liars figure". I don't support the Utah Compact and I wasn't polled.
I say if our legislature favors Illegals over the Citizens of Utah we all need
to unite and vote them out of office...Our founding fathers fought to give us
the great America, we've had! Let's fight to keep our great country, that these
brave souls left us. We don't want the compact or any other watered down Illegal
To Mary E Petty: Of course our immigration laws are 'bad,' but they are 'bad'
for those who do not qualify for immigration! The US cannot afford a massive
influx of immigrants each year. This is why there are requirements and yearly
quotas for immigrant visas. You want our elected officials to change those laws?
Go for it. In the meantime, please don't try to justify breaking our laws. You
talk about compassion, yet you forget about all those people who suffer because
of illegal immigration.
Implicit in the Sandstrom campaign are a lack of empathy for others, a paranoia
expressed as a need to protect oneself at all costs in a world viewed as hostile
and threatening, a blurring of the distinction between fantasy and objective
reality, an unawareness of the meaning of deceit and a certain shamelessness.
Not by chance are these qualities also attributes of an Egocentric consciousness
noted at the maturation level of a ten-year-old child. In adults they appear as
arrested development, often tied to cultural factors.Sandstrom's
punitive plan to purge our society of all undocumented foreign
"devils" is counterproductive in every way to jointly resolving our
immigration problems while meeting our immigration needs. Far better suited to
the task is a more maturely inclusive and honestly informed approach firmly set
on the principles of compassion.
Let's take this a little bit further. I fully support Sanstrom's bill on ILLEGAL
immigration. But I would also like to see the State of Utah pass a bill that
gets rid of the Spanish option at banks, when calling local businesses, etc. This is America, and immigrants are welcome here if they go through the
proper channels to get here. But if you are coming to join this great country,
then learn the language and assimilate into our culture. The Utah
Compact is a total farce! It has nothing to do with illegal immigration, so why
do you guys keep printing it in the articles as part of the ILLEGAL immigration
debate? It has NOTHING to do with it!
We have bad immigration law that must be changed. It is not reasonable or
practical and harms people of good will. Utah must do something as a sovereign
state to enhance the freedom, economic prosperity, and public safety of all
peoples of good will who live and work within her borders. The Utah
Compact is an excellent legislative tool that people of good will can use and
come together,reaching across the aisle, to do more than just create new law to
enforce the current bad law and lop off one another's heads. Together, we can
institute good law in Utah for Utah's public safety, freedom and economic
prosperity. Let's be true to our belief in the brotherhood of man and love thy
neighbor as thyself.
Funny, everyone I talk to is against it and for an Arizona type law . . . .
guess if you take your polls in left-wing, liberal Salt Lake City and
extrapolate that to the rest of the population you can say that a majority of
Utahans are in favour.
@Jazz Bass ManIf the results had been the opposite, would you also
criticize the poll, or is it only a bad poll because you don't like the results?
danasic-leer-jim 1-Dan Walters-orcaone. Good comments and you are right on!
Please everyone, write and support Sandstrom and Herrod. Don't listen to the
DMN, Chamber, LaRaza, Sutherland, etc., they all have ulterior motives. Viva
LEGAL immigration. Viva the laws of the USA.
I know I wasn't polled on this joke of a poll. This is just more DN/KSL left
wing propaganda trying to make us all think that it's ok to give amnesty to
illegals, and that this is something we all want. Utahns overwhelmingly OPPOSE
any form of amnesty for lawbreakers, regardless of what liberal propaganda the
liberal media throws at us. If the pro-reconquista LA RAZA (the
race) group supports the Utah Compact, then it just proves that the compact is
not in the best interests of we the citizens.
I wonder if we started up a 'White Day' and recognize white business owners,
teachers, leaders etc, if it wouldn't be protested and groups like the latinos
would demand to be a part of it.Since people complain about
celebrating our founding fathers, the greatness of the United States, even
pioneer day they get their underwear in a bunch and demand that they are
recongized, minorities demanded that the statue depicting the fire fighters
raising the flag over ground zero should include a black man and a latino man to
make it "accurate"-when in fact it was white men that raised it.It's funny how they want to rewrite history and try to include
themselves. If they want to be a part of history, they need to drop their flag
and pick up the US flag and become part of the nation.
The Utah Con Pact is a joke. As a legal immigrant, I feel insulted when they
throw us in the same boat as the illegals. If our elected officials do not put
the interests of the American people (citizens and legal immigrants) before
those of the illegal aliens and the business mafias that support them, let's
booted them out!
The idea that immigration is solely under federal jurisdiction is not supported,
in fact the US Supreme court, in the 1836-37 case of New York VS Miln absolutely
rejects the notion that the Federal government has jurisdiction over the Laws of
the States in regards to immigration. The case centered around New
York's law requiring all immigrants to be registered and found capable of
supporting themselves or be supported by others or they would not be allowed to
reside in NY. Miln, the captain of the merchant/passenger ship Emily rejected NY
State law on the grounds of the US Constitutions Commerce Clause.In
that I cannot post URL's on this comment board, feel to google NY vs Miln and
carefully read the opinions of Justices Phillip Barbour and Henry Baldwin. Just because those who support this Compact say its the Feds
jurisdiction over immigration, please don't take it at face value. IT IS THE
RIGHT OF THE SEVERAL STATES to regulate immigration.
To the DN and our elected representatives, Do you hear us?
The "Utah compact" is not what the majority of Utahns want. It is a
subtle sidetract to the real problem; illegal immigration. The polls are
twisted to make it look like it is popular, but everybody I talk to is disgusted
with it. Legislators, do your duty and pass the toughest illegal immigration
reforms in the country. It will send a message to stay out of Utah if you are
If Utah appears as though they have become soft on Illegal Immigration the
message will quickly spread to newly arriving Illegal Immigrants and those
already residing Illegally in other states. It is evident that talk is being
frequently heard in Arizona that many Illegal Immigrants have decided to move to
Utah to escape the new Arizona law. There would be little to stop tens of
thousands to hundreds of thousands of Illegal Immigrants looking for greener
pastures from making Utah their choice destination for residence. The guarantee
for Utah is if you are weak on Illegal Immigration you will likely be a
recipient of mass Illegal Immigration like you have never seen. Choose
wisely...It will change your state and it will change your future and not
necessarily for the good.
To use the honorable service of the fine men and women honored at this ceremony
to promote the twisted logic and hidden agenda of the "Utah Compact"
is disgusting! They deserve better.Maybe we need a "Legal
Resident and Citizen Day" to balance "Latino Day" if they are
going to try to combine legals and illegals into a single group.
Awarding the Utah Compact a prize: a propaganda love fest. Glad Zions Bank
subsidized Latino Day and not the taxpayers of Utah...but wondering much like
JanSan, how come no Chinese Day? Armenian Day? Native American Day? Seriously,
Dan Jones, Utahns are smarter than you think. I am very happy and proud of
ANYONE who supports their country by enlisting in the U.S. military, Latino or
otherwise, but this type of event, conducted at the Capitol during session is
just not appropriate.
We have a bunch of politicians up on the hill that really have no regard for the
middle class families that are out of work. Construction now belongs to the
illegal and not the citizen. Fast food jobs belong to the illegal and not the
legal high school kids looking for part time work or legal mothers trying toto help the family. In this state if you notice being an illegal Latino gives
you benefits that we pay for and respect they don't deserve for breaking into
our country. Only the voters can rid capital hill of those that disrespect the
legal middle class.
What poll? Most legal Utah citizens want illegal immigration stopped, period.
Latino day and self serving polls do not change the facts.
"KSL/Des. News poll shows Utahn's receptive to Utah Compact" Exactly
whom did you poll? I also read the document. The whole thing is a farce. Someone
must be getting payed off to makeup this stuff up. The American people, the
people of the State of Utah are sick and fed up with politicians, the buisness
community and the news media ignoring the will of the people so they can put
money in their pockets. The problem of illegal immigration is an issue that if
it had been delt with decades ago as the people of this country requested would
not be something that is helping drag "our" country into chaos today.
Let's ignore immigration. Fine, that can stay between the Feds and other
nations. It is State business to give out business licenses and regulate
businesses. We need to support Herrod's bill to require (none of this 'may'
stuff) all employers to verify that their employees are US citizens or legal
residents. At present, about 1 in 3 hispanics in Utah are illegals, according
to the Census and the Pew statistics of 110,000 illegals in Utah. There is
obviously a big problem here, but the Chamber of Commerce and the Legislature
don't want to fix it, since it will cost them cheap labor.
I don't believe the Dan Jones poll either. And I demand a Welsh Day. I also
believe that the solution is enforcement, which has never been done when passing
amnesty bills, and adhering to the laws. Viva LEGAL immigration.
How can people support anything that does not address the problem, nor offer any
solutions? Get off the compact wagon DN, it's not relevant when dealing with
Sorry, but this is getting VERY old. Honoring themselves and taking the
military as a smoke screen is out of line. Yes, these people did serve their
country, but come on there is NO connection here.. Really. It
sounds like Tony Y's work again. Does the Utah Bar approve of his support of
the illegal's Utah Compact? Where does he draw the line? I agree
with the comments that there are no Chinese Days, etc. Every day there is
something about this Ut Compact. Get over yourselves. Please. Polls can be biased, so I don't take the opinion of a few "selected"
unscientific or random sample. I know what I am talking about, but the general
public is smarter then these trumped up results. So transparent.
The last comment by Anti-Liar says is all and is right on!!BTW. My
ancestors came from Mexico legally 95 years ago, my father served in the
military, as did my uncles, and own son. Pardon me if I am defensive of the
More DN propaganda, real polls show Utahns want the law enforced and illegals
thrown out of here in big numbers.
The Utah compact starts off telling us that immigration is between the Federal
government and foreign governments. I believe this is Senator Robles idea of
helping out her old employer. Immigration in this country has always
been about the Government and the people. There is no place in immigration law
where it says that our country sets our quotas or enforcement according to the
wishes of another country. That statement scares me. It should scare everyone in
this country also. The compact never address illegal immigration,
just immigration. I've never seen another attempt that tried to protect
lawbreakers, by mixing them in with those who obey the law, ans claiming they
are the same.
Who did they poll? All the Mexican illegals neighborhoods? The compact is
unconstitutional and illegal and illegal Latino's do not have rights, civil or
criminal or constitutional. Their rights ended at the border.This
compact is an corporate Utah agreement to make sure illegal aliens can get jobs
with the companies endorsing it. Any business endorsing the pact should be
boycotted and left to die a slow death. Eduction cannot endorse this pact, the
state legislators cannot endorse this pact, any who do so is criminally aiding
and abetting illegal aliens and Mexicans in this state. This cleverly written
document proposes to allow illegal mexicans to loot and pilfer from the poor and
keep americans out of jobs.Businesses in this state should all be
charged with criminal employment of illegal aliens by violating the Federal and
state labor laws that profoundly makes it criminal to employ them. It is time we
stop making illegal criminals feel welcome to loot our state and country and
The only thing you need to know about the Utah Compact is that it makes no
attempt to differentiate between legal and illegal immigration. Pertaining to
legal immigration, I can support it. I do not support nor do I feel that as a
Legal U.S. Citizen should I in anyway have to support illegal activity of any
kind. I'm sure the Dan Jones Poll made no attempt to differentiate between
legal and illegal and therefore it represents skewed numbers. I cannot
find anyone amongst those I talk to on a daily basis that in anyway condone
illegal immigration nor the illegal activities, such as identity theft, that
shortly follows their arrival into our country.
I don't care about the poll in regard to the Utah Compact. I know that the
purpose of the Utah Compact was to deceive. Not surprisingly, it apparently
has. It very cunningly, purposely and knowingly seeks to convince the reader
that there is, in fact, NO legal, moral nor Constitutional difference between
legal immigration and illegal immigration, when they know perfectly well not
only that there is, but that this difference is precisely the crux of the matter
I do not believe Dan Jones poll. Just depends on who and where you call. Dan
Jones wife is a demo on the hill. Make your own conclusions. We do not need a
guest worker program. We need more jobs for americans. A guest in someone who
is invited, not someone who came in the back door without knocking.The american people are tired of illegal immigration and they want it fixed.
I will watch closely how my representatives vote and i will work hard to get rid
of those who support the illegals.
I took a document to the office, describing all my good intentions, but
justifying that I really didn't have to accomplish anything. I didn't receive
I know that this may sound prejudice.. I don't mean for it to.. but I am
wondering why they have a "Latino Day"? Tell me do they have a Chinese
Day, and Italian Day? A Native American Day? A Somoan Day?I guess I
have a hard time understanding why if they are here because they want to be a
part of this country why they have to have a particular day reconizing that they
are Latino. It seems to me that they keep doing things to keep them apart from
the rest of us. Does Mexico have an American Day? Just asking...I guess I just don't understand why if they are so excited about being
here.. why can't they just be an American?
BUSINESS & LABOR Utah is best served by a free-market philosophy that
maximizes individual freedom and opportunity. We acknowledge the economic role
legal immigrants play as workers and taxpayers. We also acknowledge the drain
caused by illegal immigration on our taxpayers. Utahs illegal immigration
policies must reaffirm our global reputation as a welcoming and honest
business-friendly state. We also realize that the state is not just business,
but millions of honest hardworking dedicated people, that deserve a honest
government that watches out for itheir best interests. A HONEST
SOCIETY Legal Immigrants are integrated into communities across Utah. We must
adopt a humane approach to this reality, reflecting our unique culture, history
and spirit of inclusion. Utah should always be a place that welcomes people of
goodwill that come here legally. Side by side, which would you
I believe the high numbers of support come from talking about immigration, and
not referencing immigration. This is a more honest approach. New
Utah CompactFEDERAL AND STATE Immigration is a federal policy issue
between the U.S. government and states. We urge Utahs congressional delegation,
and others, to lead efforts to strengthen federal laws and protect our national
borders. We urge state leaders to adopt reasonable policies addressing illegal
immigrants in Utah.LAW ENFORCEMENT MANDATORY We respect the rule of
law and support law enforcements professional judgment and discretion. Local law
enforcement resources should focus on all criminal activities, not just the ones
they want to enforce. FAMILIES & PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY Strong
honest families are the foundation of successful communities. We oppose policies
that unnecessarily separate families, however, those who break immigration laws
knowingly, are responsible for breaking up their family. We encourage everyone
to make honest, sensible, decisions, by obeying immigration laws.
After careful reading of the compact I find it a total farce. It contradicts
itself several times, and offers no direction. Illegal immigration
is a very simple thing, either you believe in following the law or you don't.
Immigration is needed, illegal is not. The compact is a waste of
time, it offers nothing to the solution.