Here in cedar we have sheep and pig ranches that pay $600 per month for labor!
that's why we have illegals. They don't want pay a livable wage. If they paid
say $7.25 min wage they would have kids working. They even list it with DWS! We
all must call our senator and tell them NO. They said the majority of Utahan
want this bill and that is simply not true. Lets all of us make our voice heard
CALL YOUR SENATORS NOW !!!!!
This law is good in practice. In theory I am not sure it will stand up under
constitutional challenge.On the other hand, there needs to be some
pressure to create real reform of the immigration system. The allowed number of
immigrants in the US has been too low for years, and has not focused on the real
requirements of the economy.I also think that the immediate family
provision of this act is the great leap forward. The Federal Guest workers
programs that have existed have normally limited their effect to workers and not
allowed for family. I am glad that a guest worker with family plan is now being
proposed. If nothing else this will put pressure on politicians in Washington
to stop grandstanding and start taking action.
Four words: Who's in the committee????
Sandstroms bill would cost $11million per year. This bill would generate
$11million per year for our schools. Not to mention the fact this bill still
would either jail or ask the feds deport the criminals.We keep those
who contribute to our economy and community and get rid of any trouble makers.
We eat our cake and have it too.
Perhaps the supporters and sponsors of this bill can get a job working on these
farms when they are no longer "representing" the citizens of Utah
after this next election! Try listening to your constituents- you know, the
legal ones who can vote.
@Cowboy Joe Illegals CAN NOT get food stamps, Medi care, Earned Income Tax
credit. They CAN get emergency room care only at a hospital.---I don't know what
planet you live on, but yes they can and they do. TN see it all the time our
clinic are always full giving them free medical care and we pay higher office
visits to make it up. Check with your health department clinic, so maybe you
need to get the facts straight. THy do not pay income tax they pay sales tax
when they buy things a big difference. And yes they do apply and get social
security benefits without paying in because our government determined if they
don't speak English it's a disability.They also get more food stamps then any
one I have ever known.
tiger1@12:11Yes. Economic reality. Try doing a little research
sometime. If wages are kept artificially low, people performing the tasks will
have to be subsidized by taxpayers. Let wages rise (or fall) to their real, free
market levels. Illegals are a corrupting influence on the free market system.
The key word here is "immediate family permit". Once that foot is in
the door there is no way that they are going home again. We do not enforce
these bills going back to the Amnesty of 1986 which was the "Amnesty to end
all Amnesties". Look where lack of enforcement of that Amnesty got us =
15,000,000 illegals. Pay a livable wage and hire citizens to do the job. Viva
"tiger1" What makes YOU think the possible employers of illegal
trespassers will follow ANY rules?The employers HAVEN'T followed any rules
up til now in employing illegal immigrants.The
"initiative" in allowing guest workers by the State of Utah is simply
a smokescreen to allow unethical employers to continue with their labor
practices unabated.Nothing more, nothing less!
What amazes me with the left. They'll work soo hard to allow illegals to come
here, to work for less than a living wage, work in conditions that aren't
healthy, and at the same time claim they are champions for these people. Does
the left not understand the abuse and exploitation these people go through? By
the hands of the coyotes, drug cartels, brothels, employers etc?Maybe if that is considered a better life for them. Maybe the US should be in
the business of nation building. Wouldn't it be more worthwhile to go into these
nations and assist them, rather than exploit their poor?That's a
reason legal immigration is soo important.
Let's see if I have this right.The US has an obesity problem among
adults and youth in this country.Kids don't want to work hard jobs.
Neither do adults. I don't blame them. It's much more appealing to sit in a air
condition office and have vacation time and being your own boss, rather than
sweating under the hot sun, being cussed at by a supervisor.If you
work in the office you could go to the gym. If you work in the field, you're too
tired to go to the gym, but, don't really need to since you worked all day.Let's just ask Barack what we should do! He is the smartest president in
history, right?!Plus it wouldn't hurt for him to get on the latino
vote bandwagon.Let's send the illegals home, and have our kids get
off their butts and put some labor in. Then they'll understand why being your
own boss is more worthwhile, and maybe it will teach US residents that we're not
entitled to have everything handed to us.
Tea for Two, Economic reality? You want to be paid more for less skilled
labor, i.e. washing dishes, mopping the floors, working at the farms? Welcome
to corporate America. LOL. Nothing happens without consequence. Somebody has to
pay, less profits for owners, layoffs and of course costs will be passed to the
consumers. Canada and USA are very dependent on low income earners.To
Fitness Freak, The article does not say the ranchers do not want to pay
decent wages.It says the job has to approved by DWS, and if unable to find
a match the job will be given to a guest worker, who has to show he has bought
health insurance. This initiative has a lot of good sides, but mostly is
humane to the less fortunate. Every immigrant group, asian, african, european
and so on, with or without legal entry, had to have fight oppression and
acceptance in this country. Let's not throw rocks at those who mow our lawns and
make possible to have food on the table.
Prior to the Supreme Court ruling in 1976 that said Congress's power to regulate
naturalization included the power to regulate immigration, the states could
regulate the immigration. The question we are now faced with is if
"guest workers" can be regulated by the federal government. There are
instances in history of guest worker programs.Since the Constitution
does not mention who has authority over "guest workers" the rights
then belong to the States, per the 10th Amendment. As seen with the immigration
topic, the Federal Courts could rule it falls under the power of Congress as it
is related to the naturalization arena. Constitutionally, the State
has the right to regulate the guest worker program, although it could be changed
by a ruling of Federal Court. This could be interesting if it passes and signed
into law by Governor and then challenged in Court. State vs Federal regulation.
I root for States in all cases. Please note, I am not yet decided
on where I stand in regards to the bill.
I see the farmers viewpoint! Kids don't want to work on the farms anymore!
Frankly it's because THEY ARE LAZY and afraid of a HARD DAYS WORK! They don't
want to get DIRTY! They are all in for a BIG HEATHY SURPRIZE in the next 5-10
years! We don't want to be OVER-Run by South Americans either! How do you think
Texas became a U.S. State, the same in REVERSE! First I think that we need to
clean out the state, THEN ENACT a Worker Permit for Migrant Workers, not the
opposite! Put in "Check Stations", and for those caught who are
illegal and haven't gotten "Entry Cards", they go to a Camp for 6
months before being deported! Those without any health care sign a
"Waiver" and are issued a "Card" that they recieve NO
Government Assistance, or Pay $750 per family of 4 per month for assistance
which can be cancelled within 90 days if no proof of employment is shown. If it
is a disabled person, then the spouse must be working, or the persons adult
children to support him/her. Just like our immigrant families did LEGALLY!
Here is some much needed information for David Ure and others who claim they
cannot get people to do the work they need done: Pay more money. If you cannot
find enough labor at the wage you are offering, you need to sweeten the pot.
This is economic reality. If you cannot afford to pay more, you are in the wrong
business. This is also economic reality. Hiring illegal foreign criminals who
are willing to work for less is not a solution. It just drives down wages to the
point where even working people cannot support themselves.
Don Walters get the facts strait. Illegals CAN NOT get food stamps, Medi care,
Earned Income Tax credit. They CAN get emergency room care only at a
hospital.They DO pay social security and never draw on social
security.They do pay Income tax when they buy things. This directly
helps out the communities where they live.It is one thing to be
against illegal immigration, but do it knowing the facts!
Why should anybody work for a living when our government is more than willing to
pay them for not working? Work is passe. We have become a welfare state.....
I do not think this program is amnesty. Only the feds can provide that. It
protects the patrons, while helping people from the shadows of our society. I am
amazed at the resentment in this blog, particularly towards mexicans people. It
reminds me of the Irish struggle when they arrived in the states. They thought
they will enjoy the same blessings of those already here, but astonished they
were seen as less than humans beings. Let's keep the hope for those hard working
people already here.
"It provides a means for undocumented immigrants to legally work in the
state."Then it is Amnesty, for nearly all intents and purposes.
It makes no difference to the unemployed American that it is not an official
pathway to "citizenship," per se. The bill would create
two types of permits a guest worker permit and an immediate family permit. The
latter would allow the undocumented worker's spouse and unmarried children under
age 21 to be in the country lawfully."Any honest person will
recognize that this is blatantly unfair to the millions of good people in many
countries around the world who will never be able to emigrate to this country
because a certain group of lawbreakers gets preferential treatment over
Why can't we round them up and ship them back to their own countries for being
illegal immigrants? They don't deserve any kindness at all for breaking our law
by coming here illegally.Let's let Al-Quide all come in illegally
and take part in this while we are at it.
How do employers of illegal trespassers justify themselves?How do they
look themselves in the mirror?What about ethics? Are their ethics
determined by "as long as I don't get caught cheating, it MUST BE
OK"?Or: "I'm ENTITLED to pay below minimum wage rates,
because I'm a member of the right church!Employers either abide by
the law, and/or a moral code of ethics - or- they don't!Please,
employers don't try to justify breaking the law, just tell us you don't respect
the laws so we know exactly where you stand.At least then you're
While I am, in general, pro guest worker programs I am totally against this bill
which is in fact an attempt at amnesty in disguise and places the state and
employers in the position of aiding and abetting the commission of a federal
crime.A properly managed guest worker program would provide
employers with an eager labour source, protect the "guest workers"
from exploitation, help mitigate the illegal immigrant problem to some extent,
and provide a legal path for "guest workers" to become legal residents
but any "guest worker" program MUST begin with potential
"guests" applying for a "guest worker" visa in their home
country and being approved for entry into the U.S. and limit entry to the
"guest worker" ONLY and only for a given amount of time. His sponsor
(employer) would then be wholly responsible for the "guest worker" to
include the worker returns to his country of origin at the end of his/her visa.
Anything other than this is amnesty!
Isn't CHEAP LABOR what the wholeillegal immigration issue is about?Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.Consumers don't want
expensive produce.Government will tell you Americans don't want the
jobs.But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap
labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie! Take, for example, an illegal
alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $8.00/hour. At that
wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if
he files an Income Tax Return,he gets an earned income credit of up to
$3,200 free.He qualifies for food stamps.He qualifies for free (no
co-pay) health care.His children get free breakfasts and lunches at
school.He requires bilingual teachers and books.He qualifies for
relief from high energy bills.If they are or become, aged, blind or
disabled, they qualify for Social Security. And once they qualify for SSI they
can qualify for Medicare. All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense.
"a guest worker permit and an immediate family permit. The latter would
allow the undocumented worker's spouse and unmarried children under age 21 to be
in the country lawfully"Notice it says "lawfully",
not "legally". The family would only be here in accordance with this
sham of a law. Since when does a State have the authority to tell
the Federal government who is allowed into the Country?
At least I am consistent. I don't support this Utah "Guest Worker"
bill anymore than I support Utah enforcement bills like Sandstrom's.Tha answer to Federal immigration law and enforcement has to come from the
U.S. Congress. I am for both comprehensive reform and improved enforcement at
the national level.On the enforcement side state only enforcement
bills will never be effective. No training, no resources for enforcement, no
coordination with ICE agents, no facilities to hold illegals, and you can't
build a fence around Utah. Ironically, very effective Federal
programs such as Secure Communities and 287(g) that share immigration
enforcement duties with local authorites are already available. No need to
reinvent the wheel.On the comprehensive reform side, a Utah only
guest worker program is a big mistake. It will only bring more undocumented
workers to the state looking for employment. Furthermore, they will still be
here illegally from a national jurisdiction perspective. Both
enforcement and comprehenisive reforms like guest workder programs must be
accomplised at the national not the state level.The Utah compact has
it exactly right, for the right reasons, the illegal immigration problem calls
for a national solution.
It figures! Utah is so WEAK. They apparently don't care about their citizens,
badmouth Americans, and prefer illegals as opposed to US Citizens. Maybe Utah
should consider giving the land back to the mexicans also. Good to know that if
there is an uprising in this country we know where the Beehive state will be.
Finally, a step in the right direction. I am all for this as long as these
workers are paid fairly with wages and benefits for their families. Plus, the
criminal background check should ease the minds of those that embrace fear of
immigrants. Hopefully this will lead to a more open policy for
immigration, just like when my ancestors arrived here from Europe.
With high unemployment, why aren't our local citizens flocking to fill these
jobs? Don't our local farmers pay a living wage?
I hope this bill is approved. It will bring people out of obscurity and solve
the problem for many business owners.
The ACLU stood up and told the committee that forming a Guest Worker Program is
against the Constitution. Shocking for the ACLU. They also said that this
program is going to send Illegal Immigrants running to Utah. This was not a
conservative bunch. Those in the committee were all liberal fruitcakes. This
bill will be dead when it hits the Senate Floor. The Federal Government are the
only ones that can give out Visa's. This is exactly what they would be doing.
Utah is not a little socialist kingdom to be played with. It is not a nation, it
is a state. Conservative, well no. Tons of Progressives are running this state.
Or lets say their little kingdom.
Wow! Where to start...First, the claim that Americans won't work on farms
is absurd. It's rather that the employers have gotten used to abusing illegal
immigrants and paying inordinately low wages (and often delaying payments, or
missing them completely).Second, this is vigilante lawmaking at its
best. The state doesn't like the way the entity with authority (i.e., the Feds)
is handling the situation, so they usurp that authority and take matters into
their own hands. It's the prerogative of the federal government to handle
immigration, not the states.
To do this only opens the door for a increase of illegal imigrants coming to
Utah. How can you condone a person committing a crime by giving them a free pass
to break the law. States through out the United States trying to create or
enforce laws that will not encourage illegal entrance to there states. Our
nation has a major problem dont find ways to encourage people to come here
illegal. Must be controlled just not a open door. Work permits if
controlled can work as they do in Canada. The migrant workers allowed to be in
Canada 180 days during the harvest season then must leave the country. They are
not allowed to bring family members. Please don't pass a wide open program, take
a look at the consequences.
Is there something in the water in UT? Since when is a state allowed to decide
who gets to be here and who doesnt? refering to the second permit allowing the
illegal's immediate family to be here legally?If the feds are going
to sue AZ with a law of theirs that supposed to be the same as federal law what
do you suppose they will do with a law that flies into the face of federal law?
and if its nothing; we can see a citizen filing suit which will get to the
SCOTUS and UT loses this one.Please do not pass this out of your
This is against the law big time. Only the Federal immigration can issue green
cards, the states cannot issue them. These committees better get on the ball and
use their powers of observations and witness the destruction of their city and
state with all the illegal Mexicans being harbored by Utah law enforceable. We
cannot sell our country to greed and profit, its not worth the cost of
You don't give away jobs from your fellow citizens. Talk about lack of
compassion. Maybe the kids at South Summit high are smart enough to find someone
who pays better. Can't we just start enforcing the laws? Not showing
compassion is physical violence and mob rule, like Mexico (human rights
violations from amnesty international). Compassion comes from enforcement. It
makes everyone play by the same rules.
I don't think legislatures should be running down the very people they are
suppose to represent. There already is a guest worker program in the US, the
H-1a visa. But many employers are to lazy to fill out the forms and instead
prefer to become criminals and hire people here illegally. Guest
workers, or visa workers have to do jobs that the employer cannot fill locally.
They also cannot depress the wages of others doing the same work in the area.
Either one of the guest work bills violates both laws. American jobs belong to
American citizens. You can move your country overseas, but in this country you
hire Americans. This bill fails to admit that human beings are
already here able to work those jobs that belong to American citizens. Don't
blame your vote on compassion, it works both ways.
"In today's society, you cannot find anyone to work on farms," said
Ure, a Kamas dairy owner. "There's not two kids at South Summit High School
who know which end of a pitchfork to lean on.""Wright,
R-Holden, said the proposal is driven by Americans unwillingness to do menial
jobs."In today's society, most employers, including farmers,
suffer from insatiable greed. When demand for their products increase, they
raise their prices. When demand for labor increases, they want to change the
rules so they can keep the pool of labor artificially inflated with illegal
aliens. The only reason kids will not do farm work is that farmers are too
greedy to allow 'supply and demand' to determine wages!!!Americans
alleged unwillingness to do menial jobs is a result of employers belief that the
ruling class, such as themselves, should not be required to pay a living wage to
the lowly serving class.
This is unbelievable. The Legislature needs to be passing laws that get illegals
out of our state, not laws that encourage them to come here! Every single one of
those committee members that voted in favor of this bill need to be booted out!