This is really manipulation. If missionaries can not go to Mexico from other
countries more likely the LDS Church will just send missionaries from within
Mexico to Mexican missions.Switzerland has put a stop on missionaries
coming from outside Europe to Switzerland due to immigration problems they have.
Missionaries just go there from European countries instead.
That is very silly, however it is dangerous for any American visiting or doing
anything in Mexico now days, so it might not be a bad idea after all !
@Jazzie 3:50Could not have said it better myself! This
is a perfect example of the real message certain people send when they shout
"Separate Church and State!"What they really mean is,
"Separate Church and State, Unless We Agree With The Church!"
Number 1:My American Constitution has a separation of Church and
State clause in it.So it is against the constitution for the church
to be involved in this issue because it's a state issue.Number 2:They no longer need visa's. All of Mexico is already in the U.S.A.
illegally so those visa's are useless.
I hope some people here realize that when LDS missionaries go to other
countries, they do so legally.
I think the church leadership wants this to be dealt with in such a way that
families are considered in the solution...so far, they have chosen a position
acceptable to members, and applicable to doctrine...and not ILLEGAL (gotta be
carefull how political you get). All in all a measured, responsible response.
I'm sure if the leadership sees another opportunity and is motivated by
adherence to doctrine, they'll say something else.I'm not even
LDS...but I,m pretty sure APOLOGIZING for the Prophet is probably not a good
thing for your spiritual course...Look up pride in your doctrine there
pal...GEEZ!News flash, the immigration process is broken, allowing
immigration to occur w/o controls has been shown throughout history to be A BAD
THING...Our Federal Government is simply inept, and now hiding from this...if
not the states then who?The days of the Fed dragging their feet on
issues affecting states so seriously are OVER! Mr. Lincoln is rolling over in
his grave...but he also knows he can't be angry at the states.
Hugh Gater,This must be a low point in your life, Do you have first hand
info or did you at least see the checks yourself? LOL. Any church assistance is
supposed to be under privacy. To my knowledge the LDS church has not said how
much goes in assistance to any immigrant group in the USA. Regarding the
article, Mexicans have to be cornered, and desperate to resort to such petition,
which BTW I do not agree, but I understand their frustations in UT.
The irony is the massive amount of welfare checks cut by bishops around the
state to hispanic families.
I support the right to petition the government. It's a founding principle in
our Constitution. Oh wait, that's the United States government. Sorry, my bad!
The mentality of these people to try and take away freedom of religion, to
blackmail their way into illegal immigration.Obviously the people
orchestrating this, needs to take some time and learn US culture and values and
try to understand our viewpoint. The world needs to get away from the victim
mentality and blame the US for all of their own personal problems.Of
course this would require them to learn some english and branch out beyond their
own culture, and become open that there are other people in this world. It would
be interesting to see if the document is written in spanish or english....
Were they 100 Mexicans or were they 100 East-bench liberals who hate the LDS
church with every fiber of their being, who still think that the
"Salamander Letter" is an accurate document, and who signed onto this
because they love nothing more than stopping the work of the Lord from
It amazes me how much hate there is of Mexico. Mexico has 12 temples with a
13th on the way. There are many good and righteous people in that land, and the
hate of everyone south of the Rio Grande by Neanderthal and his equally backward
endorsers is disturbing.
Raúl López-Vargas is trying to boost his popularity in the
Hispanic community. He's a politician.
How about we treat illegal aliens in the United States the same way Mexico
treats illegals in their country?
Tony Yapias has nothing to do with this petition. Why don't you read the
article you're commenting on, Darlene?And what's up with all these
people quoting the 12th Article of Faith?"We believe in being
subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and
sustaining the law."How many of you honor President Obama or
the new Health Care Reform Act? Hypocrites.
The 12th Article of Faith of the Mormon religion states "We believe in
being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying,
honoring, and sustaining the law." What does Tony Yapias not
understand about this?
Let me get this straight. Now you "Want" the LDS church to take a
stand on a poilitical issue, and a few months back it was not right for the LDS
church to take a stand on a political issue.(Remember Prop 8????) You can't
have it both ways. You desire the influence of the LDS church when it is a
benefit to you or someone you love but you wish they would mind their own
business when it is against your beliefs or that of the ones you love. Interesting...things that make you go hmmmmm???
Might I suggest more carrots and less sticks? You catch more flies with honey
than vinegar. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Is any of this ringing a bell?
manaen:are you calling mexican illegals nazis?
If AoF 12's "obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law" is not
conditional upon it being a good law -- per D&C 134:8 -- then why is Helmuth
Hubener considered an LDS hero for breaking Nazi law?(See
"Helmuth Hubener" in article in Wikipedia)
We believe in obeying the law -- if it's a "good" law (D&C 134:8).
That's why we resisted the anti-polygamy laws and the Edmunds-Tucker Act that
by law dissolved the legal status of the Church by law turned over the Church's
property to the feds: they weren't "good."I don't see how
a law enacted to shield current occupants from "because I have been given
much I too must give" to disadvantaged people -- who were the legal owners
of AZ and UT before being dispossesed by armed force not obeying the existing
Mexican laws of those lands* -- could be considered a "good" law.A law whose purpose is to prevent the realization of "if ye are not
equal in earthly things ye cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things"
D&C 78:6 cannot be "good" because it precludes its enforcers from
the Celestial Kingdom in which God will make its inhabitants equal in those
heavenly things (D&C 76:94-95).--------* Done by a
country formed by not honoring, obeying, and sustaining the English laws of
their land. This also was OK because those laws were not "good."
The illegals forget one thing, They're ILLEGAL!!! Why don't they do what my
ancestors did? Cross the culture gap and become naturalized by the proper
channels? It takes time and effort. Don't want to take the time, then take a
hike. I make no apologies to those who would feed off a system my ancestors and
I put into this country by sweat and hard work. Why should those lazy people who
don't want to bother getting naturalized or visas enjoy what My family built for
nearly a century? It's like letting uninvited strangers into my home to take
what they want simply because they're in my neighborhood. Want to live in
America? Become a citizen! It's not the Church's problem, it's the governments!
Again, I make NO APOLOGIES! A system that shows selective deference to illegal
immigrants is wrong.
To: Jaime Lee BonbergerSo are you saying that might makes right? If
so then the outcome doesn't matter. The state of Georgia over ran the Cherokee
Nation even after the supreme court ruled that they were soviergn and
subsequently many died on the trail of tears. The Mormons were driven out of
several states unlawfully. Slaves continued to be imported into the country and
enslaved even after the bill of rights. Japanese were rounded up during WWII and
put in concentration camps. During the red scare people were rounded up and
jailed because they were thought to be communists. Abraham Lincoln suspended
Habias Corpus during the Cival War due to espionage. And ...... illegal
immigrants are encrouching on your precious resources, but might makes right.
It's incredible what those people are doing. As mormons, we have to be obdient
of the law from the land we're living. If they don't have a legal status, why
are they here? And even trying to protest against our missionaries obeying every
aspect of the law. And they want to punish those missionaries because they are
in USA illegally? Do are they Mormons? Shame on these people and they should be
reading the Articles of Faith, and they will have the answer...
People are frustrated on both sides. But, punishing the missionaries and the
LDS Church is insane. When we lived abroad we were told we needed to speak the
language and we learned it. Immigrants here need to learn English and to go
through the proper channels to be here legally. There needs to be a process
that helps the immigrants that isn't expensive and not over many, many years.
Once here legally, they need to pay taxes, get involved in their children's
schools and contribute to the communities that they live in. There is an answer
out there if we would all think about what it would be like to walk in each
The LDS church is not a political organization, despite what it's involvement in
California might suggest. It is dogmatic to hope that a church (regardless of
the denomination) would exert any type of political pressure. The focus of a
Christian belief system should be the salvation of souls not commenting on a
border control issue.
They need to be careful of what they wish for....
Marie 12You seemed to have glossed over part of this AofF.. that of being
HONEST!!!!! Or is this only for the LDS in America? Where is the need for the
illeagle alien responcibility in being HONEST (as in obeying the laws of the
land)?We can be caring and compassionate and loving without letting
these people walk all over us! Moses was once refered to as the meekest of men..
yet he was not one to be taken advantaged of either!Is it hateful
for a parent to punish a child for bad behavior? Is is hateful for a teacher to
give a child an F for work that was way below what their normal work is? Is it
hateful for someone to be excummunicated for commiting adultry? You can do all
of these things and still show love and compassion to the person involved.
Christ said.. render unto Ceaser's what is Ceaser's... in other words Obey the
law of the land.Why do I get punished for disobeying the speading
law and have to pay a fine - and yet we are suppose to look the other way when
people come here unlawfully.. that is reverse bigotry.
If this was really an organized group why did the news story not mention who
this group is? That would seem to be an important part of this story.It could be that there is no group, and the press is just creating a story out
of nothing. Why would they do that?
You know its funny, LDS members will refrence the 12th Article of Faith all day
to support "anti-Mexican" feelings. Yet the LDS church has said that
they support the UTAH COMPACT. Also Typical UT LDS members think they are so
much greater than everyone. I have a surprise for many of the LDS Zionist Utah
members. You can hold a temple recommend and be illegal. You can hold church
callings and be illegal. You can serve a mission and be illegal. You would not
know this in UT because the church in UT is more social pressure than actual
testimony and conviction but the church does not care what your legal status is
to be a member of the church and serve in it. So is the Church a walking
contradiction accordint to its 12th Article of Faith?Also I guess the church has
nothing to do with laws in this country.....unless its Prop 8 right?P.S. I am LDS and I think what this group is doing is idiotic and Stupid.
And immigrants wonder why people are concerned about more of them coming to this
country? We have peace and opportunity here and they want to use these
privileges opportunities for others in their home country. Why don't
you boys just take the truck back to good old Mexico?
RE: DixieAggie"There are tons of illegal Canadian immigrants, and yet
the focus is on anybody with olive-to-brown skin and a Spanish accent" This
is a falacious statement and your arguments serve to do what falices
do-circumvent truth. The illegal immigrants from Canada and Europe amount to
only 6 percent of the illegals living in the US. 78% of the Illegals in this
Country are either from Mexico or other Latin American Countries and there is no
debate that this represents the biggest single illegal immigrant problem as they
all come through Mexico illegally into the US. When we start having
Candadian gangs and the thugs sent here by Canadian drug lords terrorizing our
neighborhoods and killing innocent US citizens on a dialy basis, When we start
having serial sex offender raids by ICE(which are rarely published in the news)
and they end up being Canadains instead of Mexicans and other latinos, when the
Canadain illegals burden our counties and states with social services, health
care, and police services and burden the working US tax paying citizen to even
1/10th the degree that the Mexicans and latino illeglas have, you might have a
Just like the illegal alien marches that took place all over the country a few
years back, this action by the illegal alien community will only backfire on
them. When America saw the true nature of these people, marching with mexican
flags and "viva la raza" or "viva la reconquista" signs, we
all were infuriated at their demands of amnesty, and ever since then, the
majority of our citizens have been in opposition to granting them amnesty. This is the same in Utah, regardles of what church leaders say about
compassion or amnesty. The more they push, the harder we all will push for
enforcement bills like Stephen Sandstrom's.
I can see why the Mexican people are tired of our verbal persecution. We, LDS,
DO NOT BREAK FAMILIES AT THE EXPENSE OF MONEY. Yes, the law must be implemented
but it is our obligation to obey the Federal Laws of our country. This land is
not ours, it is a choice land own by Jesus Christ, our master.Article of
Faith # 13: We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent,
virtuous, and DOING GOOD TO ALL MEN.We do not follow the ABOMINABLE
CHURCH, MONEY! All these persecutions against Mexicans, our neighbors, is for
money. We should be ashamed of our unrighteous behaviors and dominions. We
should help our Lamanites families with logical solutions to this complicated
issue and no to dune them, otherwise we are a fake people that only follow the
law for appearance. Utah should be the most international and cultural place on
earth with all the people who have served international missions.
Tommy2ShoesWhen Brigham Young arrived in the SL Valley in July 1847,
the entire states of what are now Utah, Arizona, Nevada, California, and New
Mexico were under American control. The treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo 6 months
later formalized the acquisitions.Please name one square mile of US
Territory that was not taken over by force at least once in its history.Mexico in the 1840s was forcibly taken from the Spanish a mere 25 years
earlier. The Spaniards obviously acquired their territories via conquest of the
Aztecs, Maya, etc.If we are to follow your line of logic, we should
restore control of Utah to either Spain, to the Ute tribes, or to whatever
people preceded the Ute tribes.
It's past time for the Latino's to come out in favor of following the law, and
encouraging those thinking of coming here illegally to come legally.Until then, actions like this cause distrust and resentment.They
also prove the theory that they have no intention of stopping the illegal
immigration and following our laws, and any kind of amnesty would just result in
more of the same.
Don't bite the hand that feeds you...(and gives you free education, free medical
care, etc etc etc)
100 signatures, must have been a family reunion. The only people who can rival
Mormons with the size of families are those from south of the boarder. I used to
attend family reunions in East LA that had at least 300 family members.
We need a new compact. One that calls on everyone to honor the laws of the land,
and encourage all those who come here, to do the same.
Dutchman: You are aware that the LDS missionaries do not get to choose where
they go? There are many Mexican LDS missionaries that can preach the gospel in
Mexico still has the 12th best economy in the world, and other than the border,
it's murder rate is not much different that some larger American cities. This is about people coming here illegally, demanding citizenship, and
striking out when they don't get it handed to them. It's a sad
situation that they cannot endorse our laws and ask others to do so.
ClarkHippo | 9:27 p.m. Feb. 12, 2011 Tooele, UT100 SIGNATURES?
That's it? Why is this even a news story?I AGREE!!!I am very tired of reading non-stories.100 signatures. Is
that half of half of half of half of half of one percent of the latino
population in Utah???
It this statement strong enough?We believe in being subject to
kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining
the law.That ought to do it. See Articles of Faith No. 12, written
by Joseph Smith in answer to a newspaper reporter in 1842. Incidentally, why should Mexico worry about American visas if America doesn't
worry about Mexican visas? All 13 articles of faith are still
appropriate today. Too bad religious radicals don't believe in Article of Faith
As long as there is economic disparity between the United States and Mexico
there will be illegal immigration problems. That is a fact you can bank on.
Illegal immigration has nothing to do with respect or disrespect for laws.
Mexico is a broken country and unless that changes the problems will continue.
Given a choice would you rather sneak across a border for a better life or stay
home and risk being gunned down by drug cartels. We need to stop demonizing
people for being poor. They are our neighbors like it or not. The hard liners
just want to close the borders and ignore the poverty, corruption, and violence
next door. Out of sight out of mind.
TMR I agree. Who are illegals immigrants really. Drug dealers and gang
members or hard working people cleaning motel rooms and filling service sector
jobs. To all those who say go home I ask go home to what, Poverty, violence,
corruption. Mexico is a broken country, that is the problem, not illegal
immigration. We all want legal immigration, myself included. The problem is
what do you do when you are hungry and desperate. Of course they don't respect
our laws when our laws aren't fair and anything over here is better than being
murdered by drug cartels. It's easy to say fix their own country, the question
is how. The solution to illegal immigration is a revolution in Mexico. Stop
blaming our government for being able to control an 1,100 mile border. We
can't, it is to long and porous. Theh mexican people have joined the LDS church
by over a million members. They are not all lazy or just looking for a handout.
Stop demonizing people for being poor and lets help them out.
The arrogance and audacity of the Mexican government and its people who come
here by ignoring our laws is breathtaking. Every American and Utahn should be
outraged at this kind of behavior which is nothing short of extortion on a grand
scale. The Church does not have mind control over its members and the
plain truth is that a majority of church members want the law enforced and
illegals out of here regardless of what the church leaders have or haven't said.
The removal of missionaries will clearly harm Mexico more than it will the
church. The benefits Mexico gets from having the church there far outweighs the
small amount of donations the church receives back. I think the church
should take them at their word and refuse to give into such outrageous threats
and demands, if the missionaries leave, so be it. We need to show them all who
is the boss and send all their lawbreaking citizens back where they belong and
let the chips fall where they may. Perhaps we can send Robles and
Yapass with them and really improve the situation here.
@cjb:Actually, I believe that a great majority of illegals coming into
this country from wherever their home country of origin feel
"entitled" to what the Estados Unidos offers it's citizens. That is
bigoted, racist and truly idiotic. There is no "entitlement" due to
any illegal alien, none at all.To assume that many of the LDS
"followers" are bigoted and "hateful" is in itself, exactly
what you are complaining about. Not terribly civil nor tolerant are you?, that's
I grow weary of the attention that 100 people signing a petition can get over
illegal immigration. The local media would ignore 100 Americans signing a
petition. Maybe one line of mention in another story.
Its not the church that is hateful and biggoted but unfortunately enough of its
followers are that bad perceptions are created.
@ Cats: Two weeks ago I dropped my nephew off at the MTC. Going to Mexico,
along with five other young men we met while having lunch that day. With what
is going on there Iwouldn't mind him going somewhere else, but that is where he
was called and that is where he wants to serve.
Why did the liberals WANT the Church to speak out on THIS issue? Because it
fits their agenda.
TMR--I live eight miles from the border and have a good understanding of illegal
immigrants. I know there's alot of good people, but there are alot of gang
members and drug dealers. I don't know how you can miss that in California, and
yes, they have cost our country alot. Do your homework and you can see that.
These people are breaking the law by coming here and should go through the
process of becoming legal. Wanting immigrants legalized does'nt make anyone a
bigot filled with hatred.
If you are too lazy to read the article, and just assume that it is Tony Yapias
who is leading this petition, because the DN lazily threw up an old photo on
hand of a Latino signing something(Yapias), then you assume wrong. He's not
part of this.From the article:Tony Yapias, director of
Proyecto Latino de Utah, said he understands López-Vargas' frustration,
but he doesn't believe taking action against LDS missionaries is the right thing
to do."My personal concern, I don't like to see missionaries be
used as a means to resolve our immigration problems," said Yapias, whose
own son recently returned from a LDS mission. "I don't think it's a good
idea. There are other ways."
All I have to say is LOL.:)
re: CatsWhen was the last time you heard of a missionary going to Wales,
Finland, Switzerland, Lithuania, etc. etc. Just because your particular
ward isn't sending them doesn't mean they don't go.Half the young men I
grew up with went to Mexico and South America.
Illegal immigrants have no rights except for basicnecessities. When they
learn to respect this Countryand get legal and contribute to It the way we
didat the Statue of Liberty, then we'll respect them.What a foolish
I agree with Tony Yapias.
To Worf: Even though they do not live in my neighborhood, I have had a handful
of illegal immigrants to my home, and they do not belong to gangs, as you
presume. Some are members of the LDS Church and all have been upstanding,
decent, and hardworking folks. To IJ: California's problems stem
from poor governance, not from illegal immigration. Most illegals are very
productive and contribute to the economy, i.e., agricultural jobs, etc. that are
difficult to staff. Both the economy and I welcome them.I have
also lived in Europe where there are also issues of immigration. The difference
is that the receipe for America's strength has been in part its immigration for
reasons that go beyond this post. Suffice it to say that I believe that despite
the bigotry, fear, and hatred (which always attend large masses of immigration
in every Country throughout history), these immigrants can make America even
Very misguided idea. Even if it were implemented, the LDS Church would send
missionaries to Mexico from other countries thus suspending the opportunity for
LDS young men and women in the U.S. from the opportunity of doing missionary
work legally in Mexico. A great opportunity would be lost to expose these young
people to the good people of Mexico thus strengthening ties and bonds.
The official position of the LDS Church on illegal immigration is neutrality.
There are a lot more members of the LDS Church in Utah that would like the
church to take a position in opposition to the illegal immigrants, than those
that want the LDS Church to support illegal immigration.The Church
has to be neutral, because of that 12th Article of Faith. We believe...in
honoring and sustaining the law... Illegal immigrants do not believe in this
principle. The proof is that they are here illegally. Threatening
the LDS Church leaders if they fail to take a political position of some group
has never been a good idea. These threats only show the weakness of the position
of the illegal alien enablers.
It's most unfortunate that the "leaders" of Mexico have pilfered
(stolen) the billions in Foreign Aid we've squandered needlessly on the corrupt
regimes in Mexico. This petition is laughable, even those signing it, wouldn't
go to Mexico "now", in a heartbeat to try and make things better.
Besides,being an illegal in the Estados Unidos is far better than being a
narcotrafficante foot soldier in the civil wars currently on-going in Mexico. We
need to cease all foreign aid payments and assistance of any kind to Mexico. Use
that money to secure our own border. Then we can speak with Mexico about their
own internal rampant corruption.(not that it would do a bit of good) Viva le
@Jim[The LDS church has taken a stand on this issue many years ago.
"Obey the law of the land". ]The church took a stand on
this issue many years ago by knowingly baptizing and issuing temple recommends
to illegal immigrants.
Does that group mean legal immigrants or illegal aliens? I think just everyone
is fine with the legal immigrants, it's the illegal aliens that 83% of Utahns
have a problem with. And that group appealing only to the President of Mexico
pretty well describes that group as R.....! How about the other 175 counties of
the world? By the way, I think Mexico has a policy of banning ALL illegal
When we didn't like how we were treated in the USA we packed up under threat of
death and moved to to this place (then part of Mexico). The USA followed. Some
moved to Mexico to escape government persecution of how we practiced marriage.
We must remember that Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada and Utah
were taken by force from Mexico. Maybe they have just as much of a right to live
here as we do. WE must reform our immigration laws and we must enforce our laws.
Screwbal8, I agree that tearing families apart is not a good thing. So should
we not send the married murders,rapist, and etc. to jail because it might tear a
family apart? Those who break the law need to suffer the consequences. I'm
very sorry if it tears a family apart but that should have been considered
before they choose to engage in illegal activities.
I know illegal immigration is a problem, buy why all the focus on Mexicans?
There are tons of illegal Canadian immigrants, and yet the focus is on anybody
with olive-to-brown skin and a Spanish accent. If you think I'm joking, just
Google illegal immigrants from Canada.Let's not kid ourselves, it
has more to do with racism and bigotry than anything else.
There are many differences in illeagal aliens and missionaries.Missionaries get legal visa to go into the country that they have been called
to. Thus OBEYING the law of the land they are serving in.They also stay
for a time limit of two years. How many of the illeagles have been here for that
amount of time and then return home?To try and force the church to make a
statement of acceptance of criminal behavior by these people is utterly immature
of these people. They sound like they are throwing a temper tantrum. IF the
President accepts this and does not allow the missionaries into there country -
SO WHAT !! we will send missionaries from England, Cananda, Spain etc... and
from withing Mexico itself. It will not stop the work from going on but WILL
only increase the anger of ALL Americans for them pulling this off. This is only
going to slap them in the face in the long run.
You have got to be kidding me! always blaming other people for their problems.
The LDS church has taken a stand on this issue many years ago. "Obey the
law of the land". Just what part of Illegal Immigrant do you not
TMR,I'm sure there are many needy people in your town. Many may be
gang members and drug dealers. How many of them have moved into your house and
you've fed and clothed them? I hope you're not mean spirited and a bigot by
turning them away.
From the LDS Church Newsdesk last November: The Church regards the
declaration of the Utah Compact as a responsible approach to the urgent
challenge of immigration reform. It is consistent with important principles for
which we stand:We follow Jesus Christ by loving our neighbors. The
Savior taught that the meaning of neighbor includes all of Gods children, in all
places, at all times.We recognize an ever-present need to strengthen
families. Families are meant to be together. Forced separation of working
parents from their children weakens families and damages society.We
acknowledge that every nation has the right to enforce its laws and secure its
borders. All persons subject to a nations laws are accountable for their acts
in relation to them. Public officials should create and administer
laws that reflect the best of our aspirations as a just and caring society.
Such laws will properly balance love for neighbors, family cohesion, and the
observance of just and enforceable laws.
The entire illegal alien problem has been clearly demonstrated by this blackmail
petition. Disreguard for all American laws and a lawless invasion of American
lands by illegal foriegn nationals.. I am forever offended by illegals trying
to force their agenda on Utah. The LDS church should remove all U.S.
missionaries in Mexico and let the Mexicans carry on their missionary efforts
using Mexican members.
To get involved in this politically would mean having to do 'something' with
that document we all learn in primary..."We believe in honoring, sustaining
and obeying the laws of the land". It's just too bad the government that
made the immigration law doesn't believe it as well.
Double standard anyone? These groups are so tow-faced, they grab headlines yet
help nobody.The LDS Church rarely gets deeply involved in political
issues, and when it does so, it is focused on morality issues. Illegal
immigration is a problem for the Church just like everyone else. We feel for the
immigrants, yet cannot ignore the fact that many of them willingly violate US
law (and therefore a key principle of the Church's Articles of Faith).
It is interesting that this group of individuals are trying to get the Mormon
Church to peddle their influence within the State government. Too bad there is a
constitutional seperation of church and state. Shame on them. They should work
at making sure the people they are representing are in this country legally and
that would resolve this problem. Unfortunately that will not happen nor will
trying to put the genie back in the bottle by passing laws that will adversely
effect a very large number of people. There needs to be a more humanatarian
effort made. It is disheartening to hear about families torn apart by forced
deportation. This is not the way to handle the illegales in this country. I
don't have the answer either but kicking these people out, it is too late to do
that and it is an act of inhuman babarianism on our part.
Mr Tony, who is your President? You are a citizen of one country or the other.
If you are US, then you 'renounced' your citizenship to Mexico. That is
something illegals don't have to do. They get to keep their allegiance to
Mexico, and they prefer to. That screams volumes on how misunderstood our
perception of the illegal issue is. Most don't want to become citizens.The Mexican President won't see any advantage gained by sitting down
like you propose. Think it through.
Hey TMR, California will never recover because of what illegal immigration has
done to that state. Go down to Arizona and see what is going on
there as well.Utah is smart enough to want to avoid at all costs
turning out like either of you.Illegals are NOT welcome in my state.
Desperate times calls for desperate measures.
So, he wants to suspend legal, temporary visits to Mexico until the church comes
out in support of illegal, permanent moves to the U.S. Is that the definition
of irony or hypocrisy?
I recommend this request of Mexico: treat the illegals at their Southern border
with the same respect they expect of the US.That will throw a
different perspective on illegal immigration and Mexico!
Mr. López-Vargas is missing the simple fact that if missionaries from the
United States can't serve in Mexico, the missionaries in that country will be
filled with missionaries from other countries. If all missionary visas were cut
off, the positions would have to be filled with only Mexican members. Right now
many members from Mexico broaden their knowledge and vision by serving abroad.
It would be sad if someone with a political agenda messed that up.
I can't remember the last time I heard of an American going to Mexico on a
mission. thirty years ago, there were many who went to Mexico. Now those
missions are filled almost entirely by Mexicans. So, I think this is probably a
moot point.The petition is tacky and childish. It will go nowhere.
Even Tony Yapias gets this one.
Latinos have a right to be concerned about the vitriol that is being bandied
about here in Utah against latinos. They feel a petition to the LDS church
would help them tone down the hateful rhetoric. However, it is wrong to
threaten a refusal of visas to mormon missionaries. I just hope a peaceful
solution can be reached. Latinos have become the whipping boys of the Great
TRM, Love for your fellow man has nothing to do with letting him trample all
over you. Do you give your children everything they want simply because they
want it? How much candy do you allow them to have? Do they have a bed time?
Do you have family rules? Do you send the to school or do they beg to go? You
are missing the point. If we fling open the borders, soon there will not be
room for anyone and the economic system will collapse. With the criminal
element that would come (many of whom are already here) you would not be safe
even in your own home. Why is it that no one recognizes the word ILLEGAL?
There is a process for foreigners to come here legally - and those we welcome.
And Please, don't presume to apologize for 330 million people. That's the
governments job; if it needs to be done.
I am french , retired, I was just spending my money in Utah , legally , with a
visa , going back to France every 6 months as required by the law , I paid my
rent , my bills and one day the immigration in Salt lake city said : OUT of USA
, because you spend too much time in Usa , go and look after your grand children
in France ! and the LDS church did not even help me to carry one suitcase . so I
left , but I still love your country and the people .I will be always happy to
welcome american in my country .we have visa for retired people !!
How about we get the petitioners to take a stand and spread it from there into
their community? I want to know where Latino's stand on legal immigration and to
speak with one voice. I've lived in 4 countries and in each, our entire family
was required to apply for legal status and carry an ID.I seriously
doubt the President of Mexico is even going to give this a serious hearing. And
it is a weird trade anyway - missionaries for a stand on immigration. It's like
a hostage situation - no negotiation will ever be forthcoming with a threat.
I see this as an attempt by illegals and their supporters to strong arm the
church into making Utah a sanctuary state for illegals. They have seen that
when the church makes a stand on an issue many people in Utah follow suit, so if
they threaten to hurt missionary work, they believe they can make the church
(and Utah) knuckle under to their demands. I can't believe the nerve of these
invaders who come to this country and decide that WE are the ones who need to
change to accommodate them! Send them and their families back to the
countries of their birth. IMMEDIATELY.
Just don't come knockin on my door.. Here or in Mexico!
Ridiculous. I would love to see the names of these 100 who signed. There is
nothing wrong with requesting people coming here legally. As I do name
extractions off census records, all people born out of the United States had
naturalization papers and were documented on the census. Why has that changed?
Wow! A hundred signatures. That ought to make them stand up and take notice.
Seriously; blaming the LDS church for immigration problems because they won't
take a stance. Grow up!
The LDS church has an apparently little known belief (12th article of faith) in
obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. How clear do they have to be?
Nottyou, you cite an article of faith, which is an affirmation of belief. All
of the articles of faith are enveloped within and are ultimately trumped by the
two greatest commandments, both of which are at play here and are the obvious
predicates for the Church's support for the Compact. This does not denigrate
any of the articles, but it does put them in context.
The Pope has the same stand as the LDS church. Come legally, and countries have
the right to control borders. Like the Catholic church, that has
local leaders that feel different, so does the LDS church. It would
not be fair or right if the same petition was not drawn up and sent about the
I would like it if the Church took the following FIRM stand: We believe in
being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying,
honoring, and sustaining the law. Yes, that's the firm stance I'd like to see
the Church adopt.
Although I believe that the petition is a dumb idea, I understand the
frustration. The LDS Church has spoken, but apparently it takes a two-by-four
to get the message across to some people, including commentators on this post,
many of whom purport to be members of the Church. To my illegal immigrant
friends: we need you and want you; and I apologize for the meanness, hatred, and
bigotry of many of my fellow Americans who deserve less than many of you the
good fortune of being "legal" by being born on American soil or by
immigrating (or their ancestors) under a more fair system than what is now in
place. How sad that privilege breeds such contempt.
First of all, I believe the church only sends American elders, no sisters, to
Mexico anyway; though that could possibly be for only certain missions there.
Also, if 100 signatures are successful (unlikely) I think the church will
actually see if as a opportunity. This will require Mexicans and other Latin
people to step up to teach their own people the gospel. This will be kind of
like when the church pulled all the American missionaries out of Venezuela a
couple years ago due to political unrest there, it didn't seem to have any
negative effect on the work. The gospel will continue to spread.
Don't like it? Go home!
Why is it that these Illegals want a Utah Compact, but yet Mexico and Calderone
has a closed border with his neighbors to the South and executes those who come
into Mexico Illegally.....and Yapias and his ilk call us Racists?
I am just amazed at how these illegal Latinos feel like they have a
"right" to be here just because this is a land of legal immigrants.
Then they charge America with racisum and civil right violations
when people want to enforce the protection of our country by enforcing the law.
There are other immigrants that want to come here legally and have
more to offer that should get preference before these groups.
Neanderthal: That isn't going to make the Church change their position on
Wait, the LDS Church IS supposed to exert political influence? When did liberals
decide they want the LDS Church in politics?
100 SIGNATURES? That's it? Why is this even a news story?
Really? This just shows how brazen and ridiculous illegal aliens are in
their thinking.Illegals think they can continue to spread the
corruption they are used to in Mexico.This should serve as a clear message
to our government to seriously start securing our borders. I think
a petition to our own 'President' is in order.
Sounds like a great swap. LEGAL missionaries vs. ILLEGAL immigrants. It just
shows that the hispanic community could care less about our laws. So if they
want to be lawless, go back to Mexico.Very bad stunt by 100
Small misguided people with no viable solutions decide to blame it on the LDS
church.This one would be among the worst options.I'd love to see the
reaction from the president of Mexico when he gets the petition with.....100
signatures!!!!!!!! woo hoo!
As a non-resident of Utah and a member of the Church, I hope the LDS Church does
not take any stance on Utah politics that don't impact their mission...
Let's think about this for a minute- why is Utah a state? Who came here first?
So basically they want to bite the hand that feeds them? Unbelievable! I had to
get a visa when I went on my mission- do you want to show me yours?
Genius. Let's forbid missionaries to spread love, aid, assistance and happiness
to a place that is so desperately in need of that and so much more. These people obviously do not understand immigration laws so it's just as
obvious they've never heard of the 'separation between church and state.'The Church would do better coming out in favor of the constitution,
federal laws, state laws and city ordinances. After all, when you boil it all
down, isn't the church merely a byproduct of freedom and what the Constitution
Why not make Mexico ( President included) to do something about the drug cartels
in their own country. It is inhumane with all the random murders and the
thousands of people both, Mexicans and Americans alike are killed each year.
I say we close the borders until it is safe, which is not going to
happen. The best way to stop the immigration problem is to stop letting them in
in the first place!Make sanctions with all the trade business until
they (Mexico) can make it safe for all people to live in Mexico. No wonder they
are trying to get into the U. S.
Just a thought... I wonder how many Latinos immigrated to Utah because of Mormon
Seriously? Illegal immigration is a national problem not the responsibility of
one church. If anything, all religious organizations should be in Mexico,
helping people better their lives there so they don't have to come to the U.S.
I'm not sure how this will hurt the LDS church, especially since they have
already reiterated that it is the responsibility of all members to obey the laws
of the land. I also don't think it is the responsibility of church members of
any religion to shoulder the burdens that illegal immigration places upon them.
NO, NO, NO !!!!I wonder if those who signed the petition are members of
the Church? They want to FORCE the Church to take a stance on a political issue?
I am surprised they even got 100 signature.
Thanks I needed a good laugh.
The Church's response is we support and obey the laws of the land.
And lets make sure they refuse any aid for Mexico even during a national
emergency . That will show them missionaries...
Missionaries go legally. This is what these people dont want to recognize.
Nobody has problems with legal immigration. I would like to hear the group's
statement on obeying our laws. They never seem to address this head on. Fix
your country, get in the streets like the egyptians. Stop electing and
Trying to punish the Mormons because they aren't explicity stating they think
its ok that millions of Mexicans don't care about our laws and have jumped the
fence?Seriously, are these people three? This sounds like the logic
of a 3 year old. I'm going to punish you because you won't say you
like it when I do bad things.HUH?
Let's start a petition stating that we will suspend all outgoing money
transactions to Mexico, until they stop illegals from crossing the border.The differences between illegals and missionaries:Missionaries get
visasMissionaries contribute to better societyMissionaries are not
getting involved in gangsMissionaries learn the language of the nation
they're in.Missionaries don't force the people to adob
"A small group of Latino Utah residents wants the president of Mexico to
suspend the visas of Mormon missionaries until the LDS Church takes a stronger
stand on the immigration issue."Good idea. The Church should
pull all its missionaries from Mexico. The place is a viper's nest.