You know 22oz, if the kids on the hill were making the argument you are making
they would not come off looking as bad as they do. You make an
exceptionally strong argument why this man should be honored, and because of
your argument I would absolutely support any move to honor the man and his
contributions to the security of this country. From what you say it sounds like
history has already honored him. But I would be for doing whatever you do when
you honor someone: name a road for him, or dedicate a building to him, or
declare a John Browning day. Whatever it is legislators do to honor people. But as it is, by trying to name a state gun, the Utah legislature comes
off as silly, purely political, and unnecessarily controversial.
RE Taivo | 7:19 amYou would benefit from doing some real honest
indepth research into the life and acheievments of John Moses Browning. The man
has 128 patents to his name, and he is respected internationally as a genius and
an inventor. When he left the US to seek a manufacturuer for one of his new
shotguns, he was warmly recieved in Europe by those with a pedigreed history of
arms production and was revered as "The Master" The
enimies of the US and our allies in WWI and WWII would have loved to have had
Browning as one of their native sons to turn to when ever they needed arms that
would give them an advantage. Browning's 1911, M2 50cal, and BAR were carried
into every infantry battle of WWII.Browning and his decendents
qualify as members of the DUP and SUP, and he would have been 156 yrs old this
Jan. His 1911 celebrates 100 yrs in active duty in the hands of the most elite
and pretigous law enforcement and military units in the world. Utah
should be proud of this Man and this Nation owes him a debt of gratitude as
Does anyone besides me find it silly to honor a weapon that wasn't even made by
Browning Arms? While the idea of a self-loading pistol was Browning's, the
M1911 was actually manufactured by Colt.
First, please understand I am a HUGE 2nd Amendment believer.However,
I find it highly disappointing that the founders of the great state of Utah,
specifically, pioneers belonging to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints, who firmly believe in and, as a church, try dilligently to follow the
teachings of the Prince of Peace, and who emigrated to what became the state of
Utah to obtain peace, would have a gun displayed as part of their state logo.The gun, to me, seems to be far more 'in your face' than the arrows the
eagle holds in our national crest.
Cont:Browning's grandson's conjecture is politically motivated
affront to the celebration & bestowal of honor & respect that was earned
over a lifetime of selfless dedication & service that his Grandfather
earned. Browning was a self made man, a genius, an entrepeneur who arose from
very humble means and little formal education to become reconginsed
internationally as a genius. Sec of war Dwight Davis "It is not thought
that any other individual has contributed so much to the national security of
this country as Mr. Browning in the development of our machine guns and our
automatic weapons to a state of military efficiency surpassing that of all
nations.Sec of War Newton "I have learned from Major Little of
the patriotic and generous attitude taken by you in the negotiations for the use
of your patents of light and heavy machine guns in this emergency, and beg leave
to express my appreciation for it. You have performed a very distinct service
to this country in inventions, and contributed to the strength and effectiveness
of our armies"2011 marks the 100th aniversary of Brownings
1911, and it is time to dispense with politics and prejudice & say thanks
and honor this utah native
In moments of mortal peril, there are few comforts so great as J.M. Browning's
Model 1911 in .45 ACP. It's straightforward, it's reliable, and it's uncommonly
effective. I'm proud to live in a state that Browning called home
and that has the good sense to honor his contribution to the safety and
well-being of so many Americans wherever predators menace -- certainly on the
battlefield, but equally importantly on our streets and in our homes.
Re: Bruce | 6:51 p.m. Feb. 12, 2011 Angleton, TX"pro gun
hysteria"? What the heck is that Bruce? Surely you must be aware of your
Texas Castle Doctrine. In your state you can take somebody out for
"illegal trespassing".You have to start somewhere Bruce if
you want to stop gun violence. How about starting by taking firearms away from
illegal aliens like the ones selling them in Salt Lake City this week.
It could be a lot worse. They could be raising your taxes, spending money we
don't have on stuff we don't need. Or they could be figuring out ways to allow
illegal to stay here and get in state tuition.Anything that
distracts them from other damage they might inflict on the taxpayers is a good
thing.Say, don't we need an official state.....
The Utah legislature is just taking the pro gun hysteria to the next level. For
years both the Republicans and Democrats have ran from sensible gun regulation.
How many more Tucsons or Virginia Techs have to occur before some sanity is
restored. Both parties are so afraid of the NRA that they are willing to
sacrifice the safety of ordinary Americans by refusing to recognize that some
people should not be allowed to own a firearm. If the legislature wants to
really show the NRA that they are pro gun then maybe they should allow all to
own bazookas or shoulder fired missiles.
Governor Herbert,Please find a way to do the will of the people
since our legislators will not. I think most of us are not opposed to honoring
the inventor, we just don't see a need for a State gun.
@TumbleweedI voted in November. I don't want this stupid bill and a
state gun. What a waste of time. Oh, but I didn't vote for the guy
who won in my district.
Nope. I vote. I don't want it.
It's the 57% who don't vote who don't want it. 100% of us voters who voted this
legislature in want it and we got it . . . so, uh, . . . the rest of you keep
complaining and don't vote as usual.
The results here seem to show the truth of the poll from the DNews. Over 90% say
no to a State gun. Most encouraging results from both sides of the aisle and
from gun owners and gun haters. Nice.
It may be time for the good ol' boys to put aside their childish ways and
realize they ain't living in pioneer times no more.
There is a certain entitlement to being elected to the Legislature in Utah, and
if you people don't like some of the things they do, then VOTE THEM OUT of
office!!!(In other words, this kind of stuff is going to happen and
there's not a dang thing anybody here can do about it, so it's pointless to even
whine about it.)
Perhaps R.P. Browning should also give his inheritance back?
They don't care what we think. They care about pushing their gun violence
agenda and campaign contributions.
What's our state sneaker? How about our state sandwich? What's our state beer?
State insect? State cell phone? State car? State dog breed? We can't go on
without having our elected officials define these for us! What do these people
think they are doing if they aren't taking care of these things?!
If you don't approve of a pistol as a state symbol, e-mail Gov. Herbert (easy to
find through Google) and express your displeasure. He probably doesn't read the
newspaper (or anything else, for that matter).
When I first heard of this bill, I actually thought it was a joke--now I know
that it really is a joke. It seems that there are so many more important issues
to discuss during this session that this one should not have been even
considered. Yes, it is embarrassing to have a state gun--it just gives
outsiders (as well as residents)one more topic to use to make fun of our great
state. Drop this whole issue people, and spend your time, and our money doing
something constructive. Remember, we can clean house at the next elections and
hopefully install people who mean business, and will stick to taking care of
Given how much devastation they want to do to education (give the legislature
authority over it?) and other things, I'm kinda glad they're wasting time on
stuff that, while embarrassing, doesn't really cause any harm.
Isn't this the type of government waste we republicans complain about? Unless
it's for something they like?
Or make a statue of illegal immigrants, preferably holding a 1911? Then, we can
What? No state knife, sword, spear, grenade, or fatal tonic? This bill is
nothing short of an absurdity. It is extreme legislative moves like this that
incite the highly dangerous belief that there is no civil means of defending the
constitution, it must be done and maintained by armed american citizens. On a
daily basis, the Constitution is defended by thoughtful, well-intentioned, and
rational individuals who choose to use their minds to preserve the Constitution.
If our only tools to defend the Constitution were this small handful of armed
American citizens, the Constitution would certainly not endure. Those who truly
wish to weaken the Constitution at its core would probably give you all the guns
you want. Then, just as you are polishing your arms and attending extremist
forums, they will be changing hearts and minds with articulate speech and
rational thought. If you truly wish to defend conservative values, consider
offering persuasive and insightful ideas in a civil forum. The far left paints
an unflattering caricature of conservative America. As a moderate conservative,
I wish, just once, that this conservative legislative body and it supporters
would do more to refute this characterization.
Why not designate the Television as the State Appliance?
No one has mentioned the only one with a chance of stopping this travesty in its
tracks...Gary Herbert. His lukewarm fence sitting is hard to read. "It's
as much about the man as the gun." Really? Then why not give him an
official day, a float in a parade, a billboard on the freeway (Yesco would love
that), a headline in the newspapers, a statue at the State Capitol, his factory
in the Heritage Park, his grave moved to Capitol hill, commission a song to be
written about him and have every school child in Utah be required to learn it
before they graduate, rename Antelope Island for him, paint his name on the salt
flats for all to see??? Why is a State gun necessary?
The segolilly (one state symbol) saved lives of many pioneers when they didn't
have anything to eat. The 1911 pistol saved lives of many Utahn's and people
from other states too when they were in the service defending our country.The 1911 could be counted on to fire when the trigger was pulled. It is
an excellent weapon. The services (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines) did not
choose to discontinue use of this weapon, the civilian authorities told them to
adopt an Italian pistol that they wanted adopted for political reasons.The 1911 is an excellent choice for a Utah symbol.
Republicans 57 percent opposed, 58 percent of independent voters were opposed,
72 percent of Democrats opposed, adding up to 57% against it? I knew Dan Jones
cooked polls, but those numbers just don't add up. I really don't
care. Browning is a world famous company, and the gun has a place in history,
but I don't care one way or the other? If the sea gulls had not helped the
pioneers, we would know them as flying rats.
@scambusterYou can get in trouble by calling us a democracy. We are
a constitutional republic! Just ask any of the zealots in Utah County!
The legislature doesn't care what the people want. What do people think this
is? A democracy?
I call on many Fortune 500 companies. When the topic comes up that I am
originally form Utah they ask, why is it that the Utah leg. is always in the
news doing weird things. Here there are potential companies that would look at
moving their operations to Utah for the recreation, climate etc. What is often
commented to me is why are Utah elected leaders are always trying to prove
itself through such stupid stunts almost as if there is an inferiority complex.
A state gun? Waste of time. And even if it were important, they would do better
to pick a nice hunting rifle over a handgun.
Absolutely STUPID that our legislators are spending time on this. Why do we need
a state gun? It's such a small things but it makes me sick every time I hear it.
With all of our problems they are wasting their time on something as ridiculous
as this. I just don't get it.
I've only owned one gun in my 38 years, and it's a Browning pistol I bought last
June. It's a fantastic piece to shoot.But could there be a bigger
waste of lawmakers' time and taxpayers' money than the effort to designate a
Utah State Firearm? I mean, are the pols behind this serious???
Re: Gary Moore 7:47No gun, No testosterone!Run for the
legislature next election, you are certain to win, you have all the
qualifications!Maybe you could be the long gun specialist, yea!! how
about an official state mussle loader, or even better an official assualt
rifle.Previous posters hit it on the head! EMBARRASSING.
I'm a gun owner, CCW holder, etc. and this is a dumb as it gets. Out
legislature is so high on themselves and out of touch with the reality of what
they should be doing. How embarrassing for Utah.
TMR: I find it ironic you see anything Utah does as embarrassing. I'm as pro-gun as they get, but this is just a stupid waste of tax money. There are other issues that need handling. If the legiscritters have
time for this crap, then maybe they should just shutter the doors, dock their
pay accordingly, and stop spending my tax money.
Excuse me, but this is about as ludicrous as Utah's leg. has ever been. TMR has
got it right: embarrassing.Guys, gals, leg people: go work on improving
society and our schools, etc. and put the posturing on the back burner, or
better yet, quit it!! Utah has real problems and you are just posturing. How
did you get elected? Old boy network?
Honor the man, not the gun. The poll shows we don't want an official state gun.
Please, legislature, please finally start listening to our opinions.
Relax. The worst thing this bill does is give liberals material to ridicule us
about.Consider the motivation. Political ridicule is not done
because one has cause. It's a proven effective tactic to discredit an opponent,
in a culture filled with intellectually lazy voters who take their cues from
comics on television.If leftists, masquerading as journalists and
entertainers in order to engage in stealth activism, didn't have this, they'd
use something else in their efforts to marginalize a state which consistently
votes Republican.Adding a state firearm will not cause the slightest
burden on the budget. What it will do is to serve as a response to people, such
as Mr. Browning's misguided descendant, telling them clearly that we Utahns
believe that humanity is better off because an instrument that equalizes a
smaller victim to a larger and stronger attacker exists.
The elected GOP-controlled representatives on the Hill have acted contrary to
the will of the people: 57% opposed this and 36% favored it.So much
for conservative values in Utah.
One more example of how out of touch our legislators are with the people. It
doesn't matter what we want, they are going to do whatever they want anyway. So
much for being servants of the people.
How embarrassing. One party rule on display.
What a tremendous waste of time on an idiotic idea. No wonder nothing of
substance ever gets done.
How terribly embarrassing for Utah.
The state honors criminal mexicans, why not citizens of America?Yes,
many lives have been destroyed in Utah by armed criminals and many lives have
been saved by armed citizens as well. The recognition of this gun also projects
the spirit of America and defending the constitution. People who do not believe
in guns are the ones to pity, they are the first victims of oppression and that
they are too cowardly to defend their rights and country.There is no
civil means of defending the constitution, it must be done and maintained by
armed american citizens and honoring the man and the gun also honors our rights.
It's gratifying to know that our lawmakers are spending their time and our tax
dollars on such important state business. I imagine that the electorate would
appreciate it if the folks on the hill would worry less about guns and more
about bringing jobs to Utah and educating our students. I know I would. What
ever would we do without our wise and wonderful politicans?
From the earlier article regarding this:"Turns out Ogden native
John M. Browning never manufactured an M1911, so the measure was amended to say
he designed the gun. The amended bill now goes back to the House."So all the jingoism and flag waving regarding this bill and Utah is nonsense?
Before the vote, Minority Assistant Whip Brian King, D-Salt Lake, read a letter
from Browning's grandson, Robert Pack Browning, opposing the bill. The House
consented to the amendment, 48-20.Why didn't you print that letter
it was well written?