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Red roundup: Writer gives Bogut nod over Fredette as MWC's best ever

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  • bgl Santa Monica, CA
    Feb. 18, 2011 12:03 p.m.

    I'll call it a tie based on the fact that I'm a Ute fan and Jimmer is the first Cougar player I've kind of liked. He's a great kid and a wonderful competitor.

  • 21baller23 centerville, ut
    Feb. 11, 2011 10:11 p.m.

    Bogut took Utah to the sweet 16. If Jimmer can carry his team past there, he's the best. Remember we are talking COLLEGE, not what they did in the NBA afterward. If we were, Granger would take the #1 spot easily.

  • KamUte South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 11, 2011 7:15 a.m.

    Hard to compare. BYU is an offensive machine where Utah preaches defense. Bogut is a 7 ft center that played great defense and was a great passer. Bogut also scored a lot of points from getting offensive rebounds.

    Jimmer is a great shooter with deep range. He's a guard and his team gets a lot more shots than Boguts team due to the style. Jimmer is improving his passing. Will play pro ball somewhere. If not NBA, it will be in Europe. He must improve his defense and work on his point skills because guys that short don't come in as 2 guards in the NBA.

  • UteMan South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:04 p.m.

    This is really a silly comparison. Both are great players, but if you were to compare the stats for both players as Sophmore's, I think you would have your answer. 4 years of college experience is also a little different than 2.

    Had Bogut stayed and played through his Junior and Senior years, he could have easily been a 20 point, 20 rebound per game player at the College level and would have drawn comparisons to Tim Duncan. He could also have 2 more Sweet 16 appearances under his belt (or better) with 2 more player of the year awards and multiple all american honors. Bogut was dominant and unstopable as a Soph, much like Jimmer is now as a Sr.

    Just a little perspective.

  • Duh west jordan, ut
    Feb. 10, 2011 5:13 p.m.

    I agree with Utes21, trying to compare these two is like trying to compare an apple to an orange. Two different items with two different flavors unique in their own way. Trying to compare the two is a flaw that doesn't need to be brought up. I thought Bogut was an excellent player and he had all the tangibles that made him an inside threat. Jimmer has a style that is completely different. Bogut was a hard nosed player who dominated the boards. Jimmer is all over the place bouncing off the walls. Both unique in their style but awesome to watch. I am not a Ute fan but even I recognize talent when I see it.

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 11:42 a.m.

    If it is simply 'the greatest player', then of course bogut and granger will be ahead of fredette, but if it is the best player while in college, then it goes hands down to Fredette.

    Jimmer will make it to the NBA, but will be lucky to be in a sixth man role. Steve Kerr type player. He'll be as much a force in the NBA as other BYU greats Shawn Bradley and Rafael Araujo.

    (Kerr does have championship rings.)

  • One Nil to the Arsenal! Gilbert, AZ
    Feb. 10, 2011 6:25 a.m.

    Re: williary

    I couldn't agree with you more. Infact, I was there at the Huntsman Center when Utah destroyed the Lobos that game. Second best game I saw Miller play (Next to his Triple Double agains AZ at West Regional). Andre could take over a game like no other. He was an outstanding defender (what Jimmers not), and great rebounder (what Jimmers not) for a guard his size. Remember him beating Nolan Richardson's full court press in the round of 32 that year? Amazing. That is when I realized how good that Ute team was. Sorry Cougs...Jimmer is an amazing scorer...and great kid too, but he will not be a #1 pick like Bogut. Bogut only played 2 seasons, imagine if he would have stuck around another 2 years? This one's easy to call guys. BYU gets to the sweet 16 this year on Jimmers back, then gets beat my an athletic, bigger stronger Big East, ACC or PAC 12 team (maybe UCLA again). You just don't have the Mojo that my 98 Utes had. Miller, Doleac, Jensen. Utah is the 12th winningest program in NCAA history. History says we'll turn it around.

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    Feb. 10, 2011 1:38 a.m.

    Duckhunter,

    For what it's worth, I was also impressed by your 1:04 post. Thank you for your insights.

    I agree that a program's successes and failures are better measured by trends over several years. Many erroneously want to focus on single seasons, or even single games, when making these evaluations.

    About the Bogut vs. Fredette debate - Jimmer is a great player and scoring freak, but Bogut was a more complete college player.

    We already know that Bogut is a very good but not great NBA player. Whether Fredette makes it in the NBA remains to be seen. But he has several factors that make me question how well his game will translate to the next level.

  • BleedingBYUBlue Seaside, CA
    Feb. 9, 2011 11:07 p.m.

    This is the dumbest thing I might have ever seen. No bias, but dude Bogut played for two seasons. And when a team has a dominant big man, it's much easier to build a better team around that. Jimmer has made his team better and made his team a top 10 team being a guard. No easy feat. He's been dominant offensively and is an underrated passer. It'd be a better argument if Bogut played 1 maybe 2 more seasons. This is really an argument of size. Jimmer, best ever in the MWC so far. Period.

  • Th Tooele, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 5:38 p.m.

    Moody blue..

    A bust? No, a bust is considered a player taken in the lottery and out of the league a couple years later. See Hafa Arujo however its spelled!

    Bogut has had a nice career. He's been on a team with two prolific scorers. When Bog's plays, the Bucks are decent. When he's been hurt, they've struggled.

    Please name one byu player making any impact in the nba right now....

    As for Bogut v Jimmer, there is no comparison. Bog's played in just two seasons, won the Wooden Award and other awards as the best player. Utah was a .500 team without Bog's, and a 30 win team with him.

    That said, Jimmer is a remarkable college player but won't last long in the nba where guards are bigger, faster, and more physical than he is. The fouls called in the MWC aren't called in the NBA unless your last name is James, Bryant, Durrant, or Wade of sorts. Jimmers a great college player, but as I've said many times, if Jimmer is off one game, they could lose to anyone in any round in the NCAA's.

  • Real Bass Idaho Falls, ID
    Feb. 9, 2011 3:51 p.m.

    Funny isn't it how an article about utah has to lead with the JIMMER to get read and commented on. Nice try Dirk! Next time compare Danny Ainge to Mike Noolan!

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 3:42 p.m.

    Bogut? You have got to be kidding.

  • RepresentBlue West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 10:39 a.m.

    As for the Utes in their debut season in the Pac 12, I hope they will do well, but I have my doubts they will finish better than 6-6 (which may still be good enough to get them to the same bowl they played in last year after a 10-2 season - LOL). They are losing too many of the play makers on offense, and I don't think even the great Norm Chow can make them an offensive powerhouse in one season. Plus I still have my doubts about Jordan Wynn. Last year was supposed to be a breakout year for him but he made little progress from his freshman year and ended up getting booed by his own fans. I foresee Utah having another rebuilding year and struggling to compete in a far more competitive conference.

  • RepresentBlue West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 10:29 a.m.

    @Digbads | 8:15 p.m

    Nice post! I doubt that many readers will catch on to your subtle sarcasm though. I agree with other posters who say it is pointless to compare the two. The best comment was the one that said Bogut would make a terrible point guard, while Jimmer would make a terrible center. Also, it is premature to compare Jimmer's career to anyone as it is not yet finished. He still has his biggest games of his college career ahead of him, and much of his legacy is yet to be determined. Finally, if you are going to compare Bogut and Fredette you have to leave Bogut's NBA career out of the comparison. Truth be told NOBODY knows for certain what kind of professional career Jimmer may or may not have after college, and Bogut has not exactly lit the NBA on fire anyway.

  • cactusflats American Fork, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 11:46 p.m.

    Bogut is a lot taller than Jimmer.

  • BluCoug Provo, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 10:51 p.m.

    @ Hedgehog

    Conference of Champions? Of what... gymnastics? Time to start wearing your red rock shirt and show off your pride and joy.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 9:25 p.m.

    He he he, ho ho ho, ha ha ha...respected sports blogger predicting a 6/6 Ute PAC-10.2 season next fall.

    Winner, winner, chicken dinner. Mark it down!

  • Digbads South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 8:15 p.m.

    Bogut was just amazing. The way the whole county took notice of him. They even started calling it "getting Andrewed" when someone got schooled in hoops. I remember the press clamoring for his time--his face was everywhere and people slept outside for a week just to get a ticket to see him play.
    Andrew was like a rockstar and Chuck Norris combined.
    "Andrewmania" wow, what an amazing time that I'll never forget.

  • MiP Iowa City, IA
    Feb. 8, 2011 7:54 p.m.

    What if:

    The Bucks select Fredette in this year's draft. Him AND Bogut.

    Pretty decent.

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 6:31 p.m.

    Duckhunter @ 1:04 pm- That's the most intelligent post I have ever seen from you on a Utah article. It wasn't mean, negative, or petty. I'm impressed.

  • NKAWTG Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 4:17 p.m.

    As a Cougar fan, I wouldn't mind seeing that "bust" play for the Jazz.

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 3:22 p.m.

    For a number one pick, Bogut shouldn't be considered a bust, but he's certainly not a star either.

    Centers, on average, are drafted higher than their true talent, simply because of the scarcity of quality big men.

    Sam Bowie being picked ahead of Naismith and Wooden College Player of the Year Michael Jordan is a perfect example.

    If Jordan had played center and Bowie had been a forward, there's no question Portland would have picked Jordan ahead of Bowie, and NBA history would have been changed.

  • Duckhunter American Fork, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 3:15 p.m.

    @vegasute

    So do you really think answering a post by making the claim the person that makes it "lacks basketball knowledge" is all that credible when you show your own lack of basketball knowledge in your reply?

    Good lord that was obtuse. LOL

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Feb. 8, 2011 2:41 p.m.

    Moody zoo: "For a number one pick he must be considered a bust."

    What? How can you argue with someone who has such a lack of basketball knowledge? What do they give you to drink in Utah County?

    Fredette will be in Greece within five years. Book it!

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 2:36 p.m.

    Hedgehog

    Once again you demonstrate your lack of maturity with your juvenile name calling; not to mention your lack of football knowledge.

    As Aaron Rodgers finished off a prolific high school football career in 2002, the Division I scholarship offers he dreamed of never came, sending the Chico, Calif., kid to Butte Junior College in search of his dream. A year later, after a prolific passing year, an accidental recruiting trip to California earned Rodgers the full ride he didnt get out of high school.

  • Louisiana Cougar Pineville, LA
    Feb. 8, 2011 2:33 p.m.

    Love Fredette . . . but Bogut was a NUMBER ONE draft pick.

    It's not close. Bogut was an outstanding college player and has a solid professional career.

    Fredette has been a great talent but his NBA career will be limited to that of a Steve Kerr (plus a handle).

    Both will make more money in their careers than I will ever see. Grateful to have seen them both play, but I love Jimmer!

  • RichDaddy Logan, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 2:29 p.m.

    @hedgehog

    Look up your facts before you dump on someone. Rodgers was not offered a scholarship anywhere out of high school. The only D-I school that showed any interest was Illinois and that was as a walk on. He had to go to a JC to prove himself and then earned a Cal scholarship.

  • moodyblue77 Provo, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 2:20 p.m.

    Andrew Bogut was a an excellent college player. His team was ranked number 18 in the country. He was 7 feet tall. Utah put on a huge publicity blitz to make him player of the year. (ESPN is doing well for Fredette.)

    Bogut was taken number one by the Bucks in a year they could have had Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Both were better college players and one of them should have been college player of the year.

    Bogut has not been a star player in the NBA. Never made an all-star team. Averages about 13 per game over his career. About 10 rebounds. Similar to Jazz role player Paul Millsap. Recent number one overall picks like Dwight Howard, LeBron James, and Blake Griffin are stars. For a number one pick he must be considered a bust.

    That said, it's nice to have Fredette considered with Bogut who was a man among boys in the MWC. When considering Bogut, though, you have to remember Marc Jackson. Bogut could not have dominated without Jackson's return to the team. After Ahasuerus left and slid into college basketball oblivion.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Feb. 8, 2011 2:09 p.m.

    "On ESPN Radio they were saying that Aaron Rogers was not offered a single scholarship from a Division I football program.

    Fans like to beat their chests about great recruiting classes, but stars don't make a player great, great play makes a player a star."

    Blewkewg,

    hmmm, Aaron Rogers recieved a scholarship to play at CAL. You know, the Conference of Champions!

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 1:50 p.m.

    @duckhunter

    Thank you for a reasonable and well thought out response. I agree with you. However, I suspect, as the referenced blog indicates, Utah's 2011 season will be regarded as evidence, by either side, of the AQ validity!!! Little or no analysis will go beyond the win/loss record to answer the question "Can a successful non-AQ program succeed while playing a weekly schedule of AQ teams?"

  • UU32 Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 1:38 p.m.

    Jimmer is pretty terrific, and seeing that he stuck around for four years, I give him the nod. Bogut bolted after his sophomore year - which he should have done as future Number 1 pick. I don't think Bogut's sophomore year - even as the national player of the year - compares with the show Jimmer is putting on this year. I started the year sketical as a Ute fan on how good Jimmer is. But after watching him many times this year on the tube and in person dismantel the Utes single handedly - I am a believer. Great player - best the MWC has seen (whole career inclusive).

  • GACougar Atlanta, GA
    Feb. 8, 2011 1:05 p.m.

    Bogut would make a horrible point guard and Jimmer would make a horrible center. How can you possibly compare them? Comparing them was a dumb idea from the start.

  • Duckhunter American Fork, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 1:04 p.m.

    @who am i sir

    The problem with that is that utah is losing alot this year. I think that it is faulty logic that utah has to perform well next year to justify non AQ's especially teams from previous years.

    I think utah is going to struggle next year but in my opinion that doesn't take away from what they have previously accomplished. They still have their 2 undefeated seasons and those players are all gone now so how can next years team even reflect on those two teams? It can't.

    In college there is simply too much turnover from year to year to try and make those claims. Now I can understand it in terms of justifying an overall program. Meaning if a program is really of high quality they will reload and prefomr well in subsequent years. But every single program has rebuilding years and if utah goes 6-6, or even worse, next year, it means nothing as to the overall quality of their program in my opinion.

    Now if they string together several mediocre years then that will say something about them but one down year shouldn't.

  • Pavalova Surfers Paradise, AU
    Feb. 8, 2011 1:02 p.m.

    I'm no expert here but how can one really compare the impact of two great players, Bogut and Jimmer, if Bogut only played 2 seasons?

    Not sure we have enough data on Bogut to be able to make him an All-time MWC player of the year. Both are great players and have their strenghts and weaknesses.

  • Utes21 Salt Lake City, ut
    Feb. 8, 2011 12:52 p.m.

    They are two different positions, two different players. Both are talented in different ways so you really cant say who is best. Bogut was fun to watch but Jimmer has been electric this year. Anyways its been great exposure for the state and universities with both of these young men. I wish the Jazz would trade to get Bogut that would be awesome.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 12:51 p.m.

    According to an article in the Colorado Spring Gazette,

    "The 2007 ESPN Scouting Report handed Fredette a 79 rating, barely above Division II level, and BYU and Siena were his only Division I offers."

    On ESPN Radio they were saying that Aaron Rogers was not offered a single scholarship from a Division I football program.

    Fans like to beat their chests about great recruiting classes, but stars don't make a player great, great play makes a player a star.

  • Independent Henderson, NV
    Feb. 8, 2011 12:43 p.m.

    "This year's MWC is in my opinion not a major conference when one evaluates the national scene, by any set of criteria."

    Are you serious? Two teams in the top 10, and you don't think the MWC is a major conference this year?

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 12:37 p.m.

    A couple quotes from ESPN college football bloggers Andrea Adelson and Ted Miller in their debate on how Utah will fare in the Pac-12 this fall:

    "The good news is Utah will provide an answer to the 'grind it out' theory. I'm sure Boise State(and I would think all non-AQers) will be rooting for the Utes to prove the AQ (automatic qualifers) snobs wrong."

    And, "If Utah goes 9-3, as you predict, there will be a lot of cheering and a lot of 'I told you so' from non-AQ conferences."

    Whether they want it or not, Utah's ability to compete next year in the PAC-12 will be evidence, one way or another, of the validity of the AQ's lofty opinion of their superiority! (TCU will have the same opportunity the next year; however, the Big East is recognized as being "down" while the PAC-12 was regarded as the second strongest football conference last year)

    A successful season for Utah next year would be a huge blow to the arguments of the AQ proponents!!!

    GO UTES!!!

  • Anonymous Infinity American Fork, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 12:19 p.m.

    Jimmer Fredette is having a remarkable year, but let us not go crazy about who is alltime anything. There are just too many unanswered questions at this early date. This year's MWC is in my opinion not a major conference when one evaluates the national scene, by any set of criteria. Let's just calm down and see what happens. Jimmer is not in the top twenty five of alltime players in any conference BYU or Utah have competed in with the possible exception of the MWC.

    A BYU and Utah fan.

  • In My Humble Opinion South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 12:09 p.m.

    ute alumni | 11:20 a.m. Feb. 8, 2011
    Tengoku, UT
    You have to be kidding. Bogut? I think not. Billy M. maybe!
    ----------

    Mountain West Conference, not all-time Utes. Ainge, Roberts, Chambers, Vranes, Miller, etc., were WAC, Billy the Hill McGill was Skyline Conference.

  • NKAWTG Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 12:02 p.m.

    As far as Van Horn and Miller and Billy M., we are talking about MWC. Those guys were in the WAC. Whether or not Jimmer is the best, I don't know, but he is definitely the most entertaining to watch.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Feb. 8, 2011 11:50 a.m.

    jimer Brudent won't even be a first round NBA pick let alone the FIRST PICK.

    Dreufent is a good scorere who cannot play defense -I'd view fuitent as a novilty if you will.

  • williary Kearns, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 11:46 a.m.

    Jimmer is the most dynamic scorer I've ever seen, not even debatable to this Utah fan.

    As far as a single player, either Bogut or Van Horn. Both could score in multiple ways, were very good rebounder and defenders, and got their teammates involved in the flow of the game. When Jimmer gets it going, it's a lot of 4 other guys standing around. Plus, he is not a defender, he typically hides out on a lesser offensive player. Decent passer, getting better, but not great. I think in my lifetime, Bogut and Van Horn were better all-around players than Jimmer.

    And when I think of a guy who could control/dominate a game from start to finish, it was Miller. Remember his triple-double in the NCAA tourney? I remember seeing them play a top 15 New Mexico at the Huntsman that year, and I've never seen a player control a game like Miller did that day. Everything was played at his tempo, his speed. He could have scored as many as he wanted, but instead he just played that game like a board of chess.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 11:30 a.m.

    It's pointless to compare players or teams and declare one better than the other.

    Way too many intangibles.

    I'd rather enjoy watching the players play.

    That being said, my favorite players to watch play at both school are:
    Fredette and Ainge, Chambers with Vranes and Doleac with Miller.

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 11:20 a.m.

    You have to be kidding. Bogut? I think not. Billy M. maybe!

  • CG Orem, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 11:17 a.m.

    Simply one writer's opinion and a pre-mature opinion at that.

    At the very least, we should wait until Jimmer finishes his college career before deciding where he ranks as MWC's best ever.

    Still, that's saying a lot about how good Jimmer is to already be ranked 2nd all-time before he's even finished his senior year.

  • Thriller Saint George, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 11:09 a.m.

    Frank's rankings:
    1. Andrew Bogut
    2. Jimmer Fredette
    3. Danny Granger
    4. Brandon Heath
    5. Marcus Banks

    Heath never made it in the NBA and is now playing somewhere overseas. Last I knew, Banks was playing for the Hornets but he is all but unknown in the NBA landscape. Bogut and Granger on the other hand are stars in the NBA. Where will Jimmer wind up?

  • Big_Ben Centerville, UT
    Feb. 8, 2011 10:59 a.m.

    I can see this going either way....

    On the one hand, Jimmer has the ball in his hands and makes the plays. He is a much better scorer, shooter, and facilitator than Bogut (obviously).

    On the other hand, Bogut wasn't strictly a post up center; he did his fair share of ball handling, outside shooting and what not.

    This is like choosing between your two favorite restuaruants. Choosing one doesn't mean the other one is inferior, its just a matter of preference.

    Ill take Bogut because
    1) Im a Ute fan
    2) He was a force at both ends of the floor.