Even if BYU loses early BYU will still have more fans in the stands then any
other state in the western part of the US throughout the rest of the year, even
during the easy and cold games.
Yeah, bucks kid goes to the u. No wonder his opinion is sorely biased.Give it 3 years and let's talk again!
BYU will certainly need to win early in 2011 in order to maintain visibility in
2011. BYU will not continue to have late schedules loaded with smaller WAC
schools as this progresses. Anyone who assumed this change wouldn't take a few
years to flesh out was seriously mistaken. BYU has the formula to win in this
arrangement and will be much better off for it. Texas seems to hold BYU's model
in high regard, other big name schools will probably follow in the next 10-20
Well, Jason needs to get on board! This was a smart move and give us more
money immediately, exposure that we've been sorely lacking, while keeping all
potential options on table for future.
good to hear from jason buck. when he speaks, i listen. he should be a sports
announcer or color commentator.
BYU fan's interest in Jason Buck's opinion is weak. He's a Ute now (or at least
he should be with his son playing) so what do you expect him to say? Of course,
playing in the PAC 12 is better than being Independent, but BYU didn't have that
choice. I think they are making the best of the situation. The Utes and the
Cougs will do just fine.
"Even if BYU loses early BYU will still have more fans in the stands then
any other state in the western part of the US throughout the rest of the year,
even during the easy and cold games."How do you explain the
poor turnout at the New Mexico bowl?? Half empty stadium and the worst TV
rating in 20 years....
As a huge Cougar fan, I mostly agree with Buck's assessment. There is more risk
with being independent than belonging to a conference. Some Ute
fans may mistakenly believe that they were chosen by the PAC12 because of their
superior athletic programs. But the reality is that BYU was excluded because of
its conservative values and unwillingness to play on Sunday - nothing to do with
sportsBYU has far more championships (across all sports), BYU has a
better television following and BYU fills its stadium and visiting stadiums,
better than Utah. BYU will get more exposure, more money, more
publicity and an a better opportunity to take its football program to the next
level as an independent than they would in the MWC. A couple of 11-1 or 12-0
seasons and BYU will easily surpass any prestige they would have received as
part of a conference, even the PAC12 or Big 12.But 7-6 seasons won't
cut it. Even the mighty Notre Dame has seen their "stock drop" since
they're no longer considered contenders like they were in the Holtz era.
Interesting article. I think BYU will do just fine. Anything is better than
being stuck in the Mountain West Conference where limited television access
starved its fans for the past several years. BYU has many motives behind
independence. The cougars will step up and be successful. Great athletes signed
with the cougars in the last month. Recruiting is top-notch, led by an
incredible coach who has his priorities straight. Hats off to a great BYU
decision to go independent. Keep doing your thing Buck, hope your son does well
in the Pac 12.
Adding the TCU game is huge. With 6 home games and big money games with Texas
and TCU, the Y is in a position to bring in a lot more revenue next year alone
than they ever have. It may even come close to what a PAC12 member will get.Unfortunately for Utah, they won't see the big money for a couple more
years. So they may struggle more finance wise that an independent BYU at least
for 2011 and 2012. They are also behind in facilities. I am sure there will be
pressure from the PAC12 to increase seating in RES, build a baseball and track
facility, etc.Actually it is scary times for both teams.
I see BYU joining Texas before I see Texas joining BYU.
As a fan, not having a conference championship to play for would not be cool.
With no league title to play for, the season largely turns into a 12 game
exhibition schedule. And in BYU's case, mostly against crappy competition. If
BYU fan thought the bottom of the MWC was bad...BYU fan better hope
the Utes do not have success in the Pac 12. If they do, the Utes will continue
their 20 year process of catching then passing the BYU program, and will
ultimately leave it in the dust. Who would you want to root for and play for?
A successful Pac 12 team, or a team playing a mostly bad, exhibition type of
schedule? If I were a BYU fan, I would not be happy. But thankfully I am not.
@alternate utah actually just built a track last spring/summer. I
contracted some of the work. It is a very nice facility. I think utah realizes
they need to upgrade facilities but it has to happen when funds become available
to do it.
Buck has some good opinions and expresses them well. Utah does have an easier
path to follow in a weak conference like the PAC12. Utes should go unbeaten over
the next ten years and win at least 10 NC. If not I'll be very disappointed in
them. Hope little Buck gets into the games over the next few years. Hardly
likely considering the strength of the recruiting classes going to rush the Ute
door. Better expand the stadium to compete with Michigan (100,000 plus). Cougars will struggle winning any games with the poor classes going
there. What were they thinking leaving the mighty MWC for Independence?
Mountain for ESPN? What a bunch of losers.Kings X.
Independence has risks but those pale when compared with staying in the MTN
saddled with the horrible TV contract that nobody outside of UT watches. BYU's biggest problem next year is not independence it is getting WRs
and TEs who can run a route and catch. Also some DBs. We will see
how Utah is ranked next year. I do not believe they will be any better than last
year and will have a better schedule.
@H-hog 12:03:You need stay focused on the 3 points your team scored
in the Vegas Bowl and forget about the New Mexico Bowl. Remember - stay focused,
None of this really matters IF the Y wins. If they win then they will have
national prominance and if they lose ...well then they lose and losers never
prosper. I actually think if the Y wins for two years in a row there is a good
chance they will get invited to the Big12... that is if Texas doesn't go
independent. The same is true for the U. If the U can compete week to week in
the Pac 12 and be in the top 25% of the conference then their program will
prosper but if they get the injury bug and lose a bunch of conference games and
finish in the lower 25% then they will sort of lose their luster nationally. I
don't think teams like Washington State and Arizona are really on anyones must
watch board anymore as far as football is concerned.
@Einstein HedgehogBYU is located in Provo. Not New Mexico.When BYU plays at home they average 20k more fans per game than Utah does,
even in the Crowton years, they still averaged nearly 60k per game.Last 30 years BYU has consistently been top 25 Nationally in Football and
Basketballattendance.I think you and the U trolls should worry
about filling your own venues.Utah has 15-20k Fair Weather Fans,
that Disappear, when Utah falls below the 8 win mark.Watch this
coming year. Most are predicitng Utah at 6-6 or 7-5. You'll see. Talk is
cheap.BYU as a visiting team nearly always boosts the Home teams
attendance, it's usually their largest crowd of the year.Most of the
fans at New Mexico were still BYU fans, ask Albuquerque why they don't show up
for their piddly bowl.Jason, now set an example for your boy, finish
your degree, so we can put you in the BYU Hall of Fame. Then we'll
promote you for the College Hall of Fame, you deserve it. Rules
require a degree first. McMahon missed the graduation degree requirement by one
You guys really believe indy is better than a BCS conference?7-5 in the
PAC is far better than 8-4 against Idaho State and Northern Arizona. The
shadow is just going to get bigger and bigger for you guys.
@menaceI'm pretty sure BYU fans are going to enjoy watching their
team every single week, and win most weeks. I'm more concerned about utah
"fans" like yourself only being able to watch your team every few
weeks although considering the majority of those games will probably be losses
you may not want to watch them anyway. My guess is that res will be mighty empty
after a couple of years of .500 or worse records. utah "fans" have
proven they are only bandwagon types.
CougFaninTX: "Conservative values" have nothing to do with the fact
that BYU was not invited, or even considered, by the PAC-10. BYU's Sunday play
policy was likely a factor, as is the fact that BYU is not a research
institution. Lack of academic freedom and active censorship, however, are what
ultimately outweigh the athletic programs, fan base, revenue, and other
positives that BYU would bring to the PAC-10 table. They are the 800 lb.
gorilla that is ignored in favor of statements like "conservative
@DuckhunterNot only does Ducky know everyone in every athletic
department at every college, he has contracted work building all of their
facilities. Reality is that both schools will be fine going their seperate
Yeah fans in the seats at the stadium are nice but ESPN could careless about
that- fans on the couch now that matters and Buck is right on- early losses and
then mediocre teams means no fans on the couch which eventually means no check
in the mail
And I should care about Jason Buck's opinion because?
Ernest, not one poster made any claim approaching "independence is better
than BCS conference affiliation." Where did you get that from? Is there
some hidden post, or are you just putting words in others' mouths? But
independence is certainly better than continuing to drown in anonymity, playing
Nevada and Fresno for a conference title no one cares about for chicken-feed
Brad, was that you putting in that last line on this paper? Come on Brad, cut it
out you Deseret News troll toward BYU!
Buck must own Versus TV....no one thinks that staying in the MWC is a good deal~
You would be 100% correct if the LA Coliseum and Rose Bowl ran consistently @
50% of capacity.p.s. Do you consider Austin, TX part of the west?
re: Duckhunter | 12:35 p.m. Feb. 2, 2011 "I think utah realizes
they need to upgrade facilities but it has to happen when funds become available
to do it."Darn that administration up to the U. How dare they
upgrade the library, build new buildings for Mines & Engineering, etc...
Don't they know their athletes need exposure... but not like Ben
Buck's kid goes Utah and so does Todd Christensens!
Sdunn needs to get his facts right. Washington had better attendance in the
stands last year than did BYU. BYU ranked 27th Washington 23rd. According to the
Good analysis. Pac-12 or Big-12 or any major conference would be better, but I
still think that independence beats the new MWC/WAC.
And so I must ask the question again...waite for it....Has the Big
12 called yet?
CougFaninTX | 12:13 p.m. Feb. 2, 2011 Frisco, TX As a huge Cougar
fan, I mostly agree with Buck's assessment. There is more risk with being
independent than belonging to a conference. ===The bigger the
risk, the bigger the reward.Buck's kid play's at Utah.He
can still have an unbiased opinion.I'm sure that KWhitt has not
problem with the BYU program being successful in independence.The
same way Pres. Samuelson has no problem with Utah being successful in the
PAC.Now the opinions of Naval, Chris, Hedge, ucu, etc... Who cares?
Buck's kid wasn't recruited by BYU, and he's also upset about not being in the
BYU Hall of Fame (not having graduated) BYU had many talented recruits in last
year's class, and Buck would have been riding pine. BYU performs
more undergrad research than any private school in the country. If a Ute troll
claims that BYU wasn't invited to the PAC-10 because they're not a research
school he is fooling himself. BYU has harder admission requirements than the
UofU, and BYU is #1 when it comes to number of applicants that are accepted that
end up enrolling. Making BYU the most popular university in America. I bet that
really gets some Ute goat. Utah was invited for one reason, and one reason
alone. They're not BYU. The liberal left wing better than you School Presidents
of the PAC-10 didn't want the Prop 8 loving Mormons in their conference, end of
@carnakWell some of us get out of our parents basement and do things
like go to school, play sports, stat business's, coach athletic's, stuff like
that. Along the way we meet people. You should try it.
Consider Penn State. As an Indy, Penn State had a great program and played for
and won a NC and went to big bowls. They joined the Big10 and have pretty much
disappeared.Notre Dame under Lew Holtz played in BCS bowls even when
they were crappy. The got demolished, but still got the invites. When ND starts
to win again, they'll be in the big bowls again.BYU's 2011 schedule
is far from weak. It is top loaded though. If they come out with a 10-2 record,
with losses to say, Texas and Georgia Tech, they'll get a nice bowl. If they win
out, they'll get a BCS bowl. ESPN will virtually guarantee it.Utah
will have to win the conference to get into the Rose Bowl, but could get in with
a loss or two. BYU will have to win out. BYU will be playing some big boys and
may often wind up with higher SOS than Utah. So a BCS game for BYU is a longer
shot than Utah making the Rose Bowl. But not much.
Look, his son was not qualified for BYU, but I'm sure he will fit well at Utah.
Buck makes some valid points and no one can be sure how things will
turn out. Utah may be the new Washington State or BYU may struggle to recruit.
I doubt either is true, but we'll know the answers in about 3 years. In the
meantime, I'm ready for the first game.
@ justired | 11:56 a.m. Feb. 2, 2011 Yes, you're right (ha ha), just
like all former players, commentators, sports journalists and announcers are
All of you ZOOB trolls out there have no idea what you are talking about. I am
glad that you have 20K more fans in the stand then we do each week. Your stadium
also holds more. What an awesome accomplishment. I dont care if the UTES have 10
fans in the stands or 100 thousand fans in the stands. If we wins games, that is
all that matters. I am glad that you have 60K plus fans in the stands to watch
you play & possibly lose to the little sisters of the poor. You have a great
early schedule, no one can dispute that. However, the last half of the season is
so pathetic, that I believe even Bingham High could go undefeated after your 4th
game. Fans in the stands do not make a team. Players and coaches do, & as of
right now, I like our situation much better than what the ZOOBS are in. Whit is
a better coach than Donkey. NormChow is MUCH better than Doman. Buck is a 100%
right. Being in the Pac 12 is much better than be an irrelevant. I mean
@Wally WestWas there a point to that? The U has been doing alot of
work on its non athletic facilities, I do alot of stuff there. They are also
actively upgrading the athletic facilities. I have no idea if they are making
athletic upgrades at the expense of academics but I doubt it. The Non athletic
stuff that has been built there over the last several years is far more
extensive than the athletic stuff.But of course they have a budget
just like everyone else does and can only do things as they get funds to do them
just like I stated. That new track is very nice. You ought to go see
hedghop hows Michigan doing?
Papa Smurf UteChow is better then Doman who said? You that is
funny. Remember that BYU pushed Chow out the door. You forgot that I guess.
Just because he coaches for the U makes him better I see. You probably think
that Whittingham is much better then Bronco as well. But don't you think that
you are biased in that as well. I would think that alot more people would
disagree with you then agree with you on both of those points. But it is just
my jazz and hedghog,they still suck in bball and football.
The Pac 12 will never invite BYU. This is because of BYUs conservative beliefs
and policies. One might (I repeat might) argue that Utah has been better in
football in the past 6 years only because of BCS games, not wins or conference
championships in football. All other sports other than gymnastics, BYU is
better. BYUs athletic program is hands-down stronger than Utahs. BYU probably
has as many conference championships as the rest of the MWC combined.BYU going independent is risky but the upside is incredible. Independence is
like going into business for yourself. You put everything on the line and if
you lose, you lose big. If you are successful, you win big. Utah got a job
with a good company and will start at the bottom in pay and seniority. BYU will
start with good money, gets all the freedom it can handle, and gets to keep all
of its money. With ESPN on board and BYUTV ready to go, a lot of the risk is
removed. BYU will be fine and will most likely do great. Utah will do well, no
more, no less. Utah's boundary is set.
@hedgehogWhy would BYU wait for a call from the Big 12? (We
wouldn't answer anyway because we have caller ID).Check out the past
bowl records:MWC 4 - 1 .800Independents 2 - 1
.667PAC-10 2 - 2 .500Big 10 3 - 5
.375Big 12 3 - 5 .375Even a Big 12 school should
be able to reason that a 37.5% winning record (in bowls) is not good.
Independence (66.7%) seems to be a huge step above that.
"hedghop hows Michigan doing?"myjazz,I love
the fact that the Utes beat out UofM for Jarred Oliver....Actually
the program did fairly well after Rich Rod got the boot.
re:BYU DeekThe U earned its way into the Pac 12 mainly from its two
BCS victories over Pitt and Alabama. The Y has yet to break into the BCS. Also,
the U has the medical school and that out shines the Y as far as academics are
concerned. Your point about prop 8 is correct. The liberal Pac 12 California
schools are certainly biased against BYU but I don't think that was as big a
factor as the other issues (BCS and research school academics).
In the future go ahead and refer all questions to Ducky. After all he has
personally built all the athletic facilities in the state and knows all of the
coaches and sports writers. He also has been a little league coach and a
Duckhunter | 3:44 p.m. Feb. 2, 2011American Fork, UT@carnakWell some of us get out of our parents basement and do things like go to
school, play sports, stat business's, coach athletic's, stuff like that. Along
the way we meet people.You should try it. Not to mention
Ponzi Schemes, Multi- Level Marketing, and Amway. ( What is a stat business
?) Athletics doesn't have an apostrophe.
I'm sick of hearing Ute trolls assume that BYU and UU are rivals. Utah is a
regional school--at best. Except for medical and perhaps Womens gymnastics, who
from outside the intermountain west ever selects UU as their first choice
school? Meanwhile BYU turns away thousands of applicants from all over the
world, and more than half the BYU student body and fan base is not from the I-15
corridor. Still looking for that one person who was accepted at BYU
not at UU. Still waiting . . .
WA - I, along with thousands of others, turned down acceptance at BYU in favor
of Utah. (And I also turned BYU down when it came time for grad school.)Don't be thick. BYU turns away thousands of MORMONS from all over the
world each year. You can probably count on your digits the number of non-LDS
they turn down each year. (In that sense, BYU is probably more
"regional" than almost any school in the world.)
The issue isn't which is better Independent or Pac-12 - that's a no-brainer.
The question is which is better - Indenpendent or MWC - another no-brainer.
USC just signed 15 5star athletes. Who is it Utah opens up with next year, in
Los Angeles? Against Matt Barkley!
@CarnakWhen the Pac-10 intially spoke of expansion, in this most
recent phase, they made a play for 6 Big-12 teams.This was their
first choice of action.Oklahoma, Ok. St., Texas, Texas A&M,
Texas Tech and Baylor.This was said many times to have been a done
deal.The major snag, to all of this, was Baylor. Baylor,
a Religious Institution, like BYU, had to contend with the Presidents and
Faculty, who would never approve of them in the liberal hot-beds of Berkeley,
Palo Alto, Seattle and Eugene.In order to extract Baylor from the
mix, out of the blue, Colorado was invited, even while the Pac was still
negotiating with the Big-6. This effectively eliminated Baylor.Now
the Pac-12 was courting the remaining Five. They jumped the gun on Colorado
simply to remove Baylor.So far so good. Then once that
deal blew up, there sat the Pac with lonesome Colorado, and needing a partner
invited Utah as a "Throw In".Utah won't have the same
shared revenues as Colorado has, for at least 5 years.BYU's Colleges
and as a University are rated higher than Utah's.LookItUp
To Bluto @ 9:13Don't know why you directed this at me but thanks for
the trivia. If I am ever on Jeopardy it will be useful.
@WileyOldSchool:Pay attention. There are plenty of students who are
accepted to both and for one reason or another decided to attend UU (my brother
was one. His loss). I'm looking for that one student who applied to both
schools & was accepted to BYU but *not* the U. Haven't found him yet.And just because they are Mormons who come from all over the USA and
world to attend doesn't at all diminish the fact that this makes BYU a
world-class school. Bandwagon Ute fans cheer for that particular
team on the field or court. BYU fans cheer for their school. Big difference.
To BYUDEEK--You're dreaming if you think Buck would have EVER sat...Obviously, you never saw him play...ruthless, killer instinct, and brutal.
BYU needs 10 Bucks...Now, as for his opinion,"Jason, What have you done for us lately?" We really do
miss Ricks College as a feeder...BYU will do just dandy...thank you.
WA:1) I stand corrected on your first point.2) Now, how
about paying attention to the second, more pertinent one, your suggestion that
BYU is some kind of cosmopolitan, universally aspired-to institution.That is the furthest from the truth. BYU appeals to one single demographic
almost exclusively, likely more so that any other institution in the country.
It's just that the demographic is not on a geographic dimension.One
can measure whether or not BYU is a world-class school on many dimensions but
"universal appeal" is not one of them.3) I'm hard-pressed
to figure out what you intended by your "bandwagon" comment. It
seems, like so many from your school, that you believe your fan-dome is somehow
more pure and genuine than fans from other schools. Please tell me that you are
the rare Cougar exception and that's not what you meant.4) Please
tell us what it is you think your brother lost by attending Utah over BYU. I'm
sure this will be good!
@gb13Isn't 37.5% bowl winning percentage close to what BYU's bowl
win % is? Your right, a 37% bowl win % is not good. So according to you, BYU
is not good either. If the B12 offered, BYU would be all over it.
Buck's analysis is right on. Independence is a risk but BYU can pull it off IF
THEY WIN THE BIG GAMES. This has always been my concern. If they lose, fans are
going to move on. They always do, even at BYU.
@carnakSorry Carnak, should have been to patriot, one post above
@MaxNo Max, even in the Crowton years, the fans "Did Not"
move on. Attendance at Football dropped about 5 thousand per game, still
averaged nearly 60k even in Crowtons worst year.YOu want to see fans
move on? Watch the RES when 5-6, 6-6, become the norm at Uteville. They'll lose
half their fans.Seen the crowds at the Huntsman lately?
"If they lose, fans are going to move on. They always do, even at
BYU."As witnessed at the New Mexico bowl... have empty stadium
and horrible tv viewership.The first 5 weeks of the 2011 season will
be DO or Die for the tds.
I am very excited about this coming year of Independence. That being said, I am
a little nervous about the risk that we have taken. The concern is the same as
everyone else; if we lose games at the beginning there may be a problem.After thinking on this concern I have concluded optimistically that
everything will be just fine. There is nothing stronger than Cougar Town and
its fan base. In addition to this, we also historically have been an elite
program which demands respect from the nation. We are in an Elite Family of
Programs in that we have won a National Title. I think other
storied programs realize this. That is why we have been able to schedule games
against teams like Texas and Notre Dame in the future. I can see in the future
the Cougs regularly playing series against these two teams as well as teams such
as Michigan, USC, Florida State and Penn State. Perhaps I am
getting ahead of myself (at times I go a little overboard), but I am extremely
excited for the first day of football. I believe this day will be remembered as
OUR INDEPENDENCE DAY!!!Go Cougs!!!!
This is hilarious and very entertaining. I love how BYU fans eat their own when
one does not conform to the company line.
@Wiley:To your fourth point: You could ask my brother yourself. He
graduated a year early from high school while we were living overseas. He was
accepted to BYU and UU, but the Y would not allow him to use his CLEP scores to
avoid taking classes, and the U did. Once at the U and surrounded by all the
hate, he became a hater for 15 years. Never set foot on BYU's campus, figured
he knew everything he needed to know about it. Until he decided to get his MBA,
and the best ranked school he was accepted to was BYU. After living in both
worlds, he's a BYU fan now.To point 3, even in their down years, BYU
football and basketball out-draw Utah in their best years. On the road it's not
even a contest. In Utah's down years, home attendance is truly pathetic
(more--and louder--BYU fans at the Huntsman this year than Utes?). Point 2: More than geography or demographics. Look at USN&WR's college
rankings, any year, any category where both schools have programs. Where
exactly does UU outrank BYU?
@Wiley:And on the Mormon thing, you try to argue difference on the
one thing BYU and UU have most in common. How many outside the I-15 corridor
view the U as anything but "that other Mormon school," if they've even
heard of it at all? Having lived in Ohio, Virginia, New Mexico, Puerto Rico,
Colorado, California, and Washington, I can tell you: Nobody. Sure, 99.7% of
BYU attendees are LDS. What do you suppose the percentage at UU to be?
WA - Sorry your brother didn't have the wonderful experience that I did.
Since it seems we might have been contemporaries, I wonder how I was able to
avoid all this hate that you reference. I definitely had to be prepared to work
with people who did not share or even respect my faith but thats an experience
that I cherish and value to this day.As a Ute I certainly had no
affinity for BYU's athletic teams (and that prevalent BYU-fan phenomenon that
weaves testimony and BYU sports together). Only under the rare scenario when a
win for BYU was helpful to Utah could I ever root for BYU. (Thankfully, with
the move to the PAC, I'll never have to do that again!) By your definition, does
this qualify as "hate?" If so, virtually every fan of a team with a
rival is a hater.Finally, you continue to miss the point of
"point 2." Measure your school's greatness however you want but if
"popularity" is one of your measuring sticks, just recognize that the
flawed "acceptance rate" measure can only measure popularity among
1.7% of the US population.
WA 10:01 -Well, having lived in Massachusetts, New York, Arizona,
and Virginia, I have literally never had anyone refer to the U as a Mormon
school. (I'm sure they assume many Mormons attend there.) I'd estimate the LDS
% at the U at somewhere between 40-60%, consistent with the SLC mix. But you
still don't get the argument.My point is that BYU is only popular
with Mormons. If we remove the Utah/I-15 corridor population from the BYU and
Utah total to assess "popularity" outside of the region, what do you
think the LDS component is? At BYU, it will remain somewhere near 99%. At
Utah, I'm guessing no more than 10%. So for 98.3% of the US population, Utah is
a more "popular" school. I'm not suggesting that means anything for
the U one way or the other because virtually every other school in the country
is also more popular than BYU among that 98.3% of the population.Why
do you care about popularity anyway?
Why do you care so much wiley that you are arguing about it and making up
"facts" to try and prove your point?Personally I don't
care if you like BYU or not, and I really don't care if it is popular with
anyone else. What I do care about is that it continues on its mission of
providing an excellent education to its students and that the majority of those
students are LDS from all over the world.Whether it matters or not
BYU is a much more widely known, and respected, university than utah is. Outside
of the salt lake valley litterally no one aspires to attend there. utah must
bring itself, and its attributes, to the attention of people outside of the sl
valley. Now those of us that live here know it is a fine university but it is a
state university and unless it has a specific program to attract out of staters
no one cares about it. My brother in law attended college in north
dakota because it has a program he wanted. My sister did the same in witchita.
Neither cared about the university they just took advantage of a program.
WA_Alum&Dad:You've made some comments that are both arrogant and
untrue.Your statement that Utah is a regional school at best is
ridiculous. You've referenced the US News rankings, yet ignore that Utah has
been ranked by US News with the National Universities for decades. It also
ranks higher than BYU in other rankings, such as Academic Ranking of World
Universities. You should check out the Carnegie Foundation's analysis of the U,
which of course goes against your statment.As far as what you said
about Utah's programs, you conveniently forget Pharmacy, Architecture, Physical
Therapy, and far more graduate degrees than BYU offers. Also, the U doesn't
have academic freedom issues which are a huge black eye on BYU's reputation. In reality, the schools are difficult to compare because they are
different in so many ways. If you're going to compare and make bold statements,
though, back them up with some credible information.
Papa Smurf UTE | 4:26 p.m. Feb. 2, 2011 Herriman, UT All of you ZOOB
trolls out there have no idea what you are talking about. I am glad that you
have 20K more fans in the stand then we do each week. Your stadium also holds
more. What an awesome accomplishment....... I like our situation much
better than what the ZOOBS are in. ===Brilliant slam. I'm sure
every fan of BYU will now run into hiding because of the clarity of your
logic.Bamm!!!Thanks for sharing.
@Wedgie"How do you explain the poor turnout at the New Mexico
bowl"Excuse me but I thought the NMB was played in Albuquerque
and not Provo. Had it been played in Provo it would have been a sell out.
Hedgehog, you need a geography lesson. New Mexico is not in Provo, Utah. I
believe the posting was referring to LES, not bowl games. You take whatever is
said and turn it against BYU constantly.What a piece of work you paint
yourself as whenever you post.
Xpat: OK, Ill try one last time. Do the math. 10,200 students are admitted to
BYU each year, about 70% of 14,500 applicants. Lets assume the mix of
applicants is equal to those admitted (98% LDS, 2% Non-LDS). That means each
year, a mere 290 non-LDS apply to BYU. Besides the 12 colleges that have total
enrollment below 290, please name one college that gets fewer non-LDS applicants
(besides BYU-I/H). One must therefore conclude that virtually every college in
the country is more attractive to non-LDS college applicants than BYU.
Therefore, my comment to WA was that it makes no sense to use popularity as a
factor in arguing BYUs greatness. Duck: Please cite one fact that
I made up? Even where I identified an estimate, do your research and you wont
find any material gap. You, on the other hand, pull all sorts of facts out of
your hat. Your facts about Utah and BYUs reputation around the world is
complete conjecture. (See chubbymagoos counter-argument with supporting
references.) You continue to earn your reputation as BYUs version of Chris B.
re: Veritas Aequitas | 2:54 p.m. Feb. 3, 2011 I understand perfectly
what Papa Smurf UTE is saying. You don't need any special tools to decode it
either.Bottom line: Quantity rarely equals quality.
re: chubbymagoo | 1:51 p.m. Feb. 3, 2011 Not to mention, the College
of Mines & Earth Sciences and Middle Eastern Center.