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Linda & Richard Eyre: Living the whole Word of Wisdom for our kids

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  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    Jan. 23, 2011 12:35 p.m.

    To Mukkake and Sharrona:

    Both of miss a very important part of this revelation and that is continued revelation. By the way strong drink is and always has been ALCHOLO. That is a fact. To state otherwise is a huge mistake.

    Section 27 also states that it isn't import whether wine or water is used to represent the sacrament. You both should read that one as well.

    Modern prophets have all stated that Alcholo in any of its forms is a violation of the Word of Wisdom. Further revelation states that coffee, tea (non herbal) are the hot drinks. This is continued revelation. Also note that it states to use meat sparingly. No where does it state hardly at all. One can eat it at every meal just sparingly which means it should be mixed with veggies and fruits. All grains are for the use of man.

    This is why continued revelation is important.

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    Jan. 23, 2011 10:14 a.m.

    The title of this article manifests an interesting assumption I find common among LDS. The title is "Living the Whole Word of Wisdom for Our Kids". The point is that parents should "set an example" for their children by living a "higher" level of the word of wisdom.

    This idea is implicitly sending the message to kids: "Follow the example of your parents", which is the same as "Live the Word of Wisdom because your parents do so".

    That isn't too far from saying "Do things because other people do them", which is the fundamental principle of conformity and peer pressure.

    Of course, this principle permeates Mormondom. You hear lessons on "example" all the time, as if it is a good thing to follow someone else's "example". Many Christians erroneously parrot WWJD, as if Jesus was ever quoted saying "Follow my example". He never did. The only way you could follow Jesus' example is if you are the Savior, if you have power over death, and if you can raise the dead, heal the sick, and walk on water.

    And if you can do these things, what need have you of Jesus?

  • sharrona layton, Ut
    Jan. 22, 2011 4:44 p.m.

    Bill in Nebraska: It is expedientto partake of bread and wine in remembrance of the Lord Jesus(D&C 17:22,23). Do you have this in your D&C ?
    "Sometime after dinner we sent for some wine. It has been reported by some thst this was taken for sacrament. It was no such thing; our spirits were generally dull and heavy, and it was sent to revive usI believe we all drunk of the wine." John Taylor, (HofC,1844)

  • Mukkake Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 22, 2011 3:07 p.m.

    This article, along with man of the comments posted on here, is completely wrong.

    The Church authorities and the living Prophet have defined what is prohibited: Tobacco, Coffee, Tea, Alcohol, Drugs not prescribed by a licensed physician.

    These prohibitions, however, are not what is defined in D&C89, and are only loosely related.

    First of all, D&C89 does not prohibit alcohol. It prohibits "strong drink and wine" excepting wine that is produced by members themselves. Wine is always alcoholic. Wine ferments spontaneously and has for the thousands of years of human cultivation. It wasn't until 1865 that Dr. Welch was able to pasteurize wine to prevent if from fermenting.

    D&C89 does allow beer. "barley... for mild drinks, as also other grain." Mild drinks here contrasts with "strong drinks" and at an average of 3%-6% ABV, beer is pretty mild. Also, beer is the only drink Joseph Smith would have known of that could be made with "barley and other grain". In fact, beer was considered a healthier beverage in the early 19th century, due to its high nutrition content and low alcohol content, unlike whiskey which has no nutritional content and high alcohol.

  • sharrona layton, Ut
    Jan. 22, 2011 11:58 a.m.

    Bill in Nebraska: Wine was used by: Noah Gen 9:20, 21. Melchizedek Gen 14:18. Isaac Gen 27:25. Esther 5:6. Jesus John 2:1-11 ,Jesus turned water into wine not wine into water. Timothy 1 Tim 5:23. The Apostles Acts 2:13 And Jews today at Passover =Lords supper Mt 26: 27-29. Wine(oinos) Google Strongs Greek concordance number 3631,for more in depth study on wine in the N.T.

  • Idaho Coug Meridian, Idaho
    Jan. 22, 2011 11:40 a.m.

    Unfortunately, the WofW is vague and has been interpreted very differently over time and continues to be a hotbed for member's personal interpretations and judgements (my comment includes my own). I personally know one member of the First Presidency who regularly drinks caffeinated coke. And yet according to some member's personal interpretation he would not be following the WofW.

    What I liked about this article is the message of overall health. To me, that is the spirit of the WofW. Too many members look at it as a checklist or badge of their righteousness without looking at their overall health.

    It is not uncommon to see members avoid the big 4 - alcohol, drugs, tobacco, and tea/coffee - while happily remaining in a state of gross obesity with terrible eating habits and zero exercise and yet feel they are absolutely worthy.

    It often feels like the WofW has turned many of us into pharisees who pride themselves in checking the boxes while giving no thought to WHY the law was given and what it really means.

    This article helps remind us that it really is about overall health not just checking some boxes.

  • bilbo Mayer, AZ
    Jan. 22, 2011 9:27 a.m.

    fermentation CAN and DOES occur on the vine.
    natural yeasts form on the skin of the grape. natural sugars in the grape do promote and allow fermentation of grape juice while still on vine.
    many cases of intoxicated birds and critters while fruit is being eaten directly off the tree/vine.

  • Mormoncowboy Provo, Ut
    Jan. 21, 2011 11:30 p.m.

    Bill in Nebraska:

    I'm aware of no clarification that suggests "pure vine" equals non-fermented. It would be a rather odd notion anyway, since fermentation never occurs on the vine. I would venture in accordance with section 27, that by "pure vine" Joseph Smith was suggesting that the saints should cultivate the fruit used for preparing wine "of their own make". I am however aware of a long standing Christian assertion from other groups that likewise prohibit/discourage the consumption of alcohol, that suggest Jesus never drank alcohol, but as you say "juice". The scriptures are not very supportive of this view however, and the long standing position was that Jew's didn't tend to make grape juice, so Jesus would have been unusual in that regard. This is particular poignant seeing as how many Jewish symbols, and even Jesus himself, draw favorable allegory on the fermentation process. In short, my mother used to make the same argument you are, though I cannot source the thought to anyone in LDS authority. Because of this, I sense that this line of reasoning is more derivative of the above mentioned speculation, but is not based on anything tangible.

  • excellence25@hotmail.com Smithfield, UT
    Jan. 21, 2011 10:21 p.m.

    What an excellent point! As a people in general we are not even close to healthy, half of the current diseases can be attributed to not only over-eating but excess of additives and preservatives in our food. The body can't even begin to properly process the amount of food that we eat. What I write, I only write because of research that I have personally done and found to be true. Now, I am not advocating abstinence from meat but there is great truth to the idea that we need to limit our intake of certain foods such as meat. As a society we have produced far too much processed food and we do not need to produce more. Most people are killing themselves and they don't even know it. By the way, all you naysayers, bring it on, I know exactly what I am talking about. Just for example take carbonated drinks, we drink diet sodas and think we're doing okay, however, the aspartame used to sweeten the drink will kill you faster than the seven teaspoons of sugar in a regular drink. And that says nothing about the phosphoric acid.

  • amala Evanston, IL
    Jan. 21, 2011 7:56 p.m.

    Way to call out a good brother and criticize him for his struggles. That will really get people to want to change. Or to join the church. God bless Rulon Gardner for trying to be better. I'm ashamed to be Mormon with columns like this.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    Jan. 21, 2011 7:43 p.m.

    to I M LDS2:

    So you know more than the prophet knows. Fact:

    1. It doesn't authorize beer at all. Alcholoic drinks are forbidden. Pure wine is nothing more than juice.

    Everything that the Word of Wisdom states has been proven to be correct long before science knew anything. It is as clear today as it was then.

    I think I will follow the direction of the Leaders of the Church long before I listen to another members so called opinion.

    We all have our choices to make. As for tobacco it mentions that is not good for man period. It is a herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgement and skill. In other words keep it in its natural state.

    Coffee and tea are determined to be the hot drinks.

    By the way caffien in and of itself is addictive but not the only thing in certain teas that are bad for you. Colas are frowned upon and in many cases should be given up but you seem to know exactly what the Stake President drinks daily. Unless you work with him, how do you know?

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    Jan. 21, 2011 6:23 p.m.

    I know a member of a Stake Presidency who denied a family member a temple recommend because this family member needed a little coffee to get started in the mornings. Meanwhile, with his BMI placing him in the top of the "obese" category, he continued to drink his caffeinated Cokes every morning!

    If the trump shall give an uncertain sound, who shall rally to the call?

    The Word of Wisdom is so vague, so unclear, so outdated and in such archaic language as to be worthless.

    It contradicts much of what medical science has revealed, and is inconsistent with what Church leaders have "interpreted" from it.

    According to a careful reading of the Word of Wisdom, drinking beer is encouraged! Warm herbal teas and iced tea is fine. Homemade wine for social gatherings and sacrament is approved.

    Although tobacco should not be ingested, breathing the smoke produced by incinerating tobacco is not specifically forbidden.

    The official "revelation" also says "not by commandment or constraint", so it should not be a requirement for membership or temple attendance.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    Jan. 21, 2011 6:14 p.m.

    To Mormoncowboy:

    Just to clarify the wine (JUICE) of the sacrament. Notice that the Word of Wisdom brings out pure wine of the grape of the vine of your own make. Pure wine is nothing but juice as it has not had time to ferment into alcholoic wine. Refer also to D&C 27 where it stimpulates that water can be take the place of wine.

    For those complaining about meat. It states sparingly. This does not mean to omit it completely You will notice that the very next verse state that it should not be used only in times of winter, cold or famine. There is nothing wrong in have meat every meal. What is wrong is when it is used in excess.

    The key to the Word of Wisdom is that it is moderation in all things.

    A few years back the Church quit serving cola products in all of its activities. This was because the First Presidency issued a statement that it was being used to excess. Most LDS families I know limit or don't buy any soda products. I drink mostly clear soda products with no caffine in them.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    Jan. 21, 2011 5:41 p.m.

    to Oh really all grain is to be used for man seems like the primary grain of man and beast is mentioned for them. So Oats and other grain is fine.

  • me2wired South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 21, 2011 4:14 p.m.

    I am having a very big problem with the inaccuracies of these "blog type" postings on MormonTimes lately. Utah is NOT the 9th most obese state. If you are going to post this as an "article" in your newspaper Deseret News, than I think a little research and accuracy is not too much to ask for. At least a source for where they are spouting off their facts and figures.

    Utah ranks 44th in the nations for obesity rates. This is a FAR CRY from the "9th" they list. Now reread this article putting in that figure and guess what... we're doing pretty darn good compared to the rest of the nation aren't we.

    I would love to post my source but these comment sections don't allow a "non-wrapping" line. It's easy enough to google "obesity by state 2010" though.

  • Convert Cedar City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2011 2:25 p.m.

    When I joined the church 30 years ago I was instructed that the Word of Wisdom was a commandment and I studied it and tried to live it. Other members told me that "hot drinks" meant caffeinated drinks, since it referred to coffee and tea, the 2 hot drinks in Joseph's day.

    Recently an apostle (I think Elder Packer)said that "hot drinks" has nothing to do with caffeine. In today's world, practically every member drinks coke, mtn dew, or other caffeinated cold drinks.

    As time goes on there will be additional clarification from the General Authorities about application of the W of W. Maybe we will receive inspired clarification about caloric intake or exercise.

    Until then we must apply the specific wisdom God granted each us us individually.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Jan. 21, 2011 1:37 p.m.

    This is an excellent article.

    I know many people who believe they live the WofW while they eat a completely unhealthy diet--the "meat sparingly" part being a big one. I believe that if we all would truly live the WofW, we would all be much healthier and eating less meat, more whole grains and more fruits and vegetables. That is truly living both the letter of the law as well as the spirit.

    And...the WofW IS a commandment. It was canonized in the latter part of the 19th century which made it a commandment. That is why it is part of the Temple recommend interview. Probably all of us could do a lot better in observing it.

  • Mormoncowboy Provo, Ut
    Jan. 21, 2011 1:28 p.m.

    To Attentive:

    Incidentally, Joseph Fielding Smith was among those who perpetuated the nuance regarding refridgeration of meat.

  • oh, really? Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2011 1:28 p.m.

    I've read the LDS Word of Wisdom many times and always find it interesting how discussions then extrapolate "what God means." I believe it says "wheat for man" not whole grains. People are to be responsible for themselves including avoiding gluten-containing products if you are allergic to them...even if you are a man.

    I like the "dynamic guideline" comment. Good to see someone with some sense.

  • attentive Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2011 12:35 p.m.

    A lot of people have a big issue with the part about eating meat and where the Lord instructed Joseph Smith that He would be pleased if we didn't eat it at all or only in times of extreme hunger or cold, and then, sparingly. Too many people now say that that instruction was because there were no refrigerators then and meat would spoil. That can't be the reason and with the high incidence of stomach and colon cancers and their relation to eating meat, then it would seem that the revelation was also RELEVANT for all times and seasons. But...many Mormons eat meat at every meal, all through the year.

  • Mormoncowboy Provo, Ut
    Jan. 21, 2011 10:25 a.m.

    When I read the Word of Wisdom I learn that I am supposed to be making my wine for use in the Sacrament, but that I am to otherwise avoid strong and hot drinks. Still, drinks made from barley (Beer?) are okay, and I supposed to corn to the ox, and rye to the fowls. Then if I do all things, to the chagrin of the evils and designs which exist in the hearts of men, I am promised in Temple language that the destroying angel will pass me by.

    A law of health, perhaps, but I really don't think that this is exactly what Joseph Smith had in mind.

  • Hellooo Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2011 9:41 a.m.

    Thank you Eryes for this article. Would have preferred that you not structure in such a way as to seem judgemental of others. Unless the "we" was just the two of you. But, the wholeness and completeness of this wonderful revelation for all those that observe it is attested to by both their longevity and health during all the years.

  • bjdoc Vilnius, Lithiuania
    Jan. 21, 2011 9:06 a.m.

    Having had the opportunity to live on both sides of the globe, I have learned to see those who follow the word, tailor Section 89 to their own culture. Still all understand that the Word of Wisdom is a dynamic guideline, with detailes added with each generation of members. Still I liked the article, and only wish that each member will understand that every part of the revelation will indeed benefit our health.
    And never forget, that it is given as a guide, not by way of commandment.

  • Belching Cow Sandy, UT
    Jan. 21, 2011 8:04 a.m.

    @higv
    The author was only suggesting that we eat healthier. What's wrong with that? And where did he claim to be receiving revelation? I went back over the article but couldn't find anywhere that he mentioned receiving revelation for us. Talking about being a crank, I think you woke up on the wrong side of the bed. The word of wisdom does say to use meat sparingly. What does that mean? I would certainly guess that daily meat consumption is not considered sparingly. I have never figured out how people can rationalize that one.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    Jan. 21, 2011 7:29 a.m.

    Just what we need someone receiving revelation that is not in the Word of Wisdom and claiming it as the mind and will of the Lord. Revelation can only come in properly appointed channels though.

    And I like what the late Bruce R McConkie wrote about people being cranks with the law on things like sugar, Milk, Meat and flowr.

    In the meantime while holding a temple recommend and church calling I will enjoy my barbecue and ice cream.