Daniel M. Pogue lived nearby the Temple, and suffered from depression which
combined with medication affects a person's mental state and perceptions. it
seems to me that his reasoning was that he was protecting the Temple and grounds
from the "birds". He told a bystander to go home as the birds were
coming, and that they had been there last night. We should all be aware of the
harm both illegal drugs and prescription medications do to the human body.
It's an adverse reaction to the meds.R.I.P. Mr. Progue.
It is obvious, Tom Smith, that most of us responders get along just fine with
the police.And yes, if you are running around with a deadly weapon
and the police order you to drop it you can be sure they will shoot first and
ask questions later.Get used to the idea and you'll live a lot
Stay on subject. This story is not about those with depression and why their
families report them only after a serious incident or the police using deadly
force. It's about a dangerous armed person and the protection of innocent
bystanders. Follow on stories can explore appropriate use of non-lethal force,
guns and the tragedy of mental illness.
I will stand as a second witness with sledhead. I am on medication for
depression and yet I do not own any weapons, and stockpiling them is the
furthest thing from my mind. Dr. Tracy has been trying to advance a
flawed understanding of psychiatry for years which attacks the many benefits of
medication. Medication allows many of us to function who would otherwise have
no energy. Anti-depressants are a good thing, and those who fight them are
encoraging us to throw a method of dealing with our conditions that the Lord has
I understand why this guy had to be shot but I often wonder if there aren't
other non-lethal ways people like this can be stopped or temporarily
incapacitated. In this case, I think deadly force was probably necessary but so
many other cases we read about I can't help but think that there must be a
Great job citizen(s) who promptly called the police. Great job police. I would
expect to be shot in the same circumstance. Anyone who wouldn't expect the same
thing should probably get some help before they hurt someone.
Good suggestion to get the facts before publishing the story. It now makes
sense. And to those of you who are "throwing rocks" at the police,
DON'T!!! My sons are police officers and you will not find two finer men on the
earth. They do everything in their power to solve situations peacefully. But
the public does demand protection and since the "Tom's" of the world
are not qualified to do anything but complain, someone must do it.
The ONLY person responsible for the death and potential huge loss of life at the
Oquirrh MOuntain Temple shooting is Mr. Daniel Pogue. No one else bears any
responsibility. For whatever the reason he alone chose, he did what he did, and
the South Jordan Police Department responding officers did what they needed to
do, to bring this to a SWIFT conclusion. Excellent work by the SJPD, and no, I
don't work for them nor di I know anyone who does/did.
"only depression"? I'm appalled that someone who had once been close
to Mr. Pogue, his estranged wife, would say something like that. "Only
depression" is the cause for many suicides each year. It's a serious mental
illness which few people sick treatment for, or allow others to help them get
treatment. "only depression" can lead to other serious issues
particularly when taking the wrong medication, when there are serious
disruptions, such as a divorce and not seeing your family. I would say that Mr.
Pogue was clearly not in a healthy state of mind and could have caused loss of
life and was likely suicidal. The police did the right thing, as tough as a
decision as it was. I hope none of us ever has to watch someone battle
"only depression" or live with the consequences of someone who has.
My father was the Chief of Police in the southern California community I grew up
in. I have a degree in Law Enforcement as well. I was always taught that
whenever you have a problem, the policeman is your best friend. Well, thanks to
some children who had periods of waywardness, we have had several encounters
with law enforcement in the last 10 years; some good, some bad. Hate to admit
it, but I don't feel I can always trust the police any more. There are good and
bad cops, just like any other professional.That being said, I feel
the officers acted wisely and promptly in this situation and may very well have
saved lives. Kudos to them.Personally, I now look at such situations
one at a time AFTER the facts are released. As an aside, I have
written local news media about some of the atrociously uninformed reporters we
see on TV here and many from the news desk on camera, as well as those on the
scene, sure could use some refresher courses on grammar and preparation for
their stories! I never hear back on my comments or suggestions.
Dr. Tracy, I suffer from depression yet I owned more guns before I was depressed
and on meds. than I do now. My wife now suffers from depression and is on meds.
also, but guns make her nervous. I also know many others who fight depression
and are medicated and don't own any weapons. How do you explain that???
Exactly! You Can't!! Give me a break!!!
Tom Smith How much do you think the cops paid the other witnesses to
corraborate their story?You obviously have an axe to grind against
law enforcement that has absolutely nothing to do with the circumstances of this
story.It's clear to any impartial observer that the police probably
saved several innocent lives through their swift and courageous actions.
Tom, obviously you have had a lot of contact with law enforcement, you might
want to change your ways and clear up any outstanding warrants.And
as far as the PR spin on the story, there are witnesses interviewed who have
stated that they felt threatened by this guy. These witnesses are not police
officers, just people who happened to be there so give it a rest.
It is obvious that most responders have had little (if any) contact with Law
Enforcement Officers. A Public Relations statement such as this article is
strictly meant to disarm public criticism. Law Enforcement personnel are
extremely skilled at creating an impression. As far as telling the truth, have
you every heard an officer say: "I just want to talk to you" and then
physically and verbally demonstrates his superiority and your vulnerability
before the shake down and hand cuffs? The whole "Good Cop and Bad Cop"
routine is nothing but lies and manipulation. Anyone who believes this store
resembles what actually happened is extremely naive. No cop wants the public to
believe that they shoot first and ask questions later.
Even if the law allowed it, I doubt the LDS Church would not allow guns in it's
churches and temples.You don't show up at a Temple with a shotgun
for tea and crumpets. It is unfortunate this individual could not get help.II highly doubt the officer who shot woke up on Christmas morning
looking to take a life.
"Daniel M. Pogue, 54, was carrying a shotgun and pointing it at people in
the area, said Lt. Dan Starks of the South Jordan Police Department. He also was
carrying a machete and chopping at the fence surrounding the building."
This man clearly had bad intentions and when confronted by the police, ducked.
He knew what he was doing. If he had escaped and anyone injured or killed, many
would have castigated the policed dept. They did the right thing. Good work
Definitely a good job on the part of the police. However, people were just lucky
this time. I am just glad that they happened to be close by to protect these
people. I do kind of agree with Blaine in Cedar City: we need to open up areas
to people that can legally carry a gun to be able to do so! It makes me feel
really uneasy to have to relinquish my firearm to go into certain places -- I am
fine with this going into areas where there are police, but cannot see it as
being necessary to go into the bank; since this would be a place where you may
need to protect yourself! Also, I don't know where people get off
being anti-Mormon with regards to this ordeal. I am not a Mormon and have no
intent to ever become one; but these are still just people, whom have the right
to be safe! Everybody has the right to have different beliefs -- I may not agree
with them, but this isn't the time nor the place to bring it up! These people's
(mental and physical) safety is all that matters!
Realizing that newspaper article writers are under time constraints, here are a
few typo's or errors in the story:Revise 'along the street next to the
outer property of the temple,' to:'along the street next to the outer
periphery [or perimeter] of the temple grounds,"Revise to permit the
quote marks within quote marks, without the box symbol appearing:"He
said, 'Go home, the birds are coming. You need to go home. They were here last
night. Did you see them?,' " Ashley said. "I had no idea
what he was talking about."and:"I said, 'He's running to
us, he's coming, we need to leave,' " she said. "I was
scared."Just trying to be helpful....
Mr. Pogue's wife said he did not suffer from the delusions & paranoia he was
suffering when he was shot, but suffering only from depression. Once you add his
medication for depression to the mix you get the potential side effects of
paranoia (where you tend to collect weapons to protect yourself),
No one should be happy at this outcome, but not the police to blame. Nor the
person holding the gun if he is suffering from a mental condition. Sometimes it
is no one's fault. We think we can avoid every tragedy and that is just prideful
and naive. Reasonable steps were taken. Excellent law enforcement got there
before he shot or another less trained pedestrian present tried to take him
down. How he got a weapon and weapons is one thing? The care of
mental illness in the country could be better. So much we don't know about the
mind. I don't know why so much anti law enforcement? All articles
made it clear he was armed and did not drop it when instructed. That is the
reasonable way to handle the situation.
It is far better that this gunman died at the hands of the police than if an
unknown number of innocent people were gunned down by this deranged gunman.
It is a shame that this fellow died at the hands of the police, but really, if
some guy is running at me with a loaded shotgun, having already emptied several
other weapons after yelling about "the birds", I'm OK with the police
using deadly force to stop him. Still, I would have loved to have
heard him tell his story.
I was amazed by all the insane comments I have seen by anti-gun people on this
incident and every time another cop displays true heroism. Anti-gun folks
always think criminals are not the problem, cops are the problem, guns are the
problem. Criminals are just criminals. Poor criminal! Congradulations for
figuring this all out. You are geniuses! Saw a couple anti-Mormon commenters
sticking up for the gunman also. It figures. Thanks for showing your true
colors. I have never seen an anti-Mormon comment that made any sense or had any
credibility. Those comments always plague the DN. Thanks for the comic relief
Well done cops
Thank you to the South Jordan police department for their immediate, effective
response, as well as the observant man who called 911.
Well sniggy, next time, comment based on facts or perhaps YOU should wait for
further details so you don't come across as the cop basher and second guesser of
everyone's actions.I suggest giving the benefit of the doubt to the
police-always, then let the full story come out.Which I suspect there is
still much more to come from this story.And as it turns out, the
police did an amazing job in not only responding very quickly it appears, but
immediately took control. Wow.Can you imagine what another 15 minutes
might have resulted in?This was truly a disaster in the making.Thank
Who needs a gun for self defense on church property? According to some church
and public officials, nobody. A church is a sanctuary, after all -- which even
criminals and the insane would surely obey. "Gun-free" zones are, in
reality, disarmed-victim zones where only evil-doers and cops carry guns.
Fortunately, this time the cops arrived in time. Most times they can't.
"Gun-free" zones such as churches, schools, businesses, government
property, etc. must be abolished unless adequate security is provided to ensure
no criminal attacks on/in that property.
As I stated in the other article, good job to the South Jordan PD! This could
have been very, very ugly. The man was obviously mentally deranged and very
dangerous. Very happy no innocent bystanders were hurt.
This article shows facts as to why the man was shot. Now it makes sense. Write the story once the facts are in like this one.
Well, now, that report answers a lot of questions.Good job, police.