If you wanted a good fun rivalry game, you missed one on Wednesday. The
BYU-Utah State (and I know this is no where big a rivalry as the BYU-Utah is)
basketball game was full of jeers, taunts, and some rather rude things directed
at BYU players, and coaches, most dealing with the Max Hall incident, but it was
just one school trying to take another out of its game. I watched as after the
game, one of the few BYU fans (this one fan was reacting to us, and yelling
things back. I don't know what I was on the opposite side of the floor.) who
were able to get tickets for the game and a couple Utah State fans shook hands
and talked, that is good sportsman ship, not to mention the players who
recognized it as a good, solid, fun rivalry.
Mike, I'm sure most Utah grads won't lose any sleep over Max's comments. As for
those few that are offended, perhaps they should consider the behavior of Utah
fans towards Hall's family that led to those comments.
"Does Hall realize how many people he offended?"Halls comments
didn't offend me ... I completely understand what he said and why he said it
...and I'm a lifelong Ute fan. I am embarrassed at the
boorish, uncivilized behaviors of more than a few Ute fans. It's just a
game. I believe 99% of Ute fans are not the problem- but when we let the
other 1% act as they do then the whole school gets tarnished. Throwing
beer on someone is unacceptable. Swearing endlessly is unacceptable If you see
someone doing these things near you -call them on it. Tell them to knock it off,
shut up and act civilized. And if you need to have them thrown out. And the media doesn’t help by stirring the pot, just because it makes a
good sotry. They need to step up and take some accountablity too. Where has civility gone?
a great game i think i can take the hate talk big boys don't cry
In the past the two teams were generally unevenly matched when they played and
it was only for bragging rights. Now we have two good coaches that will have
good teams and the games will often count for more than just bragging rights.
Trash talk doesn't especially bother me but physical acts such as punching,
shoving, spitting, throwing drinks, etc. has got to STOP.I believe
both schools need to get a handle on it immediately otherwise it will get way
out of hand and a wonderful rivalry will become very dangerous.
Mike,The Utes and the Aggies don't play again until 2012. Maybe the
Ags will go to a bowl game without that automatic loss on their schedule.
Who cares about the trash talk between Utah and Y?The Kitties are coming
to Logan for some real trash talking.Be Afraid Kitties. Be real afraid.
Max said some dumb things. That is all. I am sure that he regrets it now.
Leave it to the overly offended and offensive bloggers, message board posters,
and overzealous media to keep this issue rolling for years to come. Yeah. I
can't wait. Rodney Kind said it best "Why can't we all just get along?"
I think that BYU can't handle a college football rivalry. Mormon sensibilities
are too easily offended and a big-time college football game is going to bring
out hostility from opposing fans. I keep reading and hearing about how Y fans
are offended by language and beer when they visit RES. Both are protected by
the Constitution of the United States!
You are crazy - we have had season tickets for Utah Football for 10 years and
Utah Basketball for 15 years - I have had only 1 situation where I had to talk
to someone behind us and then the fan apologized and has been great ever since
and even jokes about it to this day and mentioned how much my kids have grown. I
think you are just spewing hatred just like Max Hall. Either that or you have
the worst luck buying your seats. Come to section N19 next game and we will show
you how fans have fun at games, stand up the whole time, and cheer on our UTES.
Your post reminds me of several this weekend of people that sound like they are
making stuff up to prove some point about the moral superiority of BYU which is
fine - it is a church school and should have higher standards - I am totally OK
boo hoo Max hates us,wait a minute dont we hate BYU
Who cares about Wayne Howard and what he said 32 years ago?Well, for
one, since he was the head football coach of Utah it demonstrates that the Utes
have been hating BYU and talking trash long before Max Hall ever came along.Here was a man who publicly accused that paragon of classiness, Lavell
Edwards (whom the Ute fans hated while he was coach but love now that he's
retired) and his staff of cheating.Who publicly announced his
dislike of BYU and the LDS church.Who openly encouraged fans to hate
BYU in ways that would make even Morgan Scalley blush.The Utes
started this war. Max Hall just got caught up in it.
The best part of Sorensen's column dealt with the USC vs. UCLA thing. I don't
think Rick Neuheusial will try that dumb stunt again.
man if only I had a nickel for everytime the word "class" or some version of it
was used in these boards over the last few days...well... I'd have a lot of
nickels. Let's bust out a thesaurus people
Hey Max said he was sorry — haven’t any of you - all knowing
— ever said anything that you wanted to take back … probably not ..
but I have. Just let it go, remember he is a 20’s year old jock.
If you have ever played any sport especially basketball or football or
soccer — they are all hard contact and you can lose you kewl. I have
gotten into fist-fights with best friend and walked away as friends.But
when idiot FANATICS aka FANS — throw beer and use profane words at your
family it is very hard to not get very ticked-off. It has happened to me at RES
… but naturally I forgave them and turned the other cheek as would any
YOUT if that happened to them … NOT.
As for Max as a QB — he doesn’t seem to do well under real
pressure — I don’t know if he wants to go into the NFL but I doubt
if he will be drafted very high if at all. Just look at last year & this year
BYU — Utah games.At the end of the game the BYU coaching staff sure
didn’t do a great job of clock management — what is the story
there?BY the way — I was raised in Cache Valley and in the
1950’s during B-ball season they closed the games at Logan High to fan
attendance because there were so many fights - it did stop the problem.
As someone who is neither a Ute fan nor a Y fan, I can honestly say that neither
side has a monopoly on virtue or vice. Ute fans swear; Y fans swear. Ute fans
can be offensive; Y fans can be offensive. Ute fans can lie; Y fans can lie.
Ute fans drink beer; Y fans drink beer (do you honestly think only "active"
Mormons cheer for the Y?). Max Hall was an idiot to say what he
did, because he assumed only Ute fans, players, coaches, etc. are awful, and
everyone who stereotypes Y fans, players, coaches, etc. is an idiot, for the
same reason. I don't believe Mr. Hall's apology was completely sincere, and
those who are saying that any U fan who refuses to accept it is as classless as
Hall said are like small children who expect that just saying sorry is always
enough, even when "I'm sorry" is said with loads of sarcasm and insincerety.
When he means it, it'll be accepted.Oh, and this is not even close
to the biggest rivalry game in the country. Anyone who says that has never been
to a Big-10 or SEC game.
I'm from Boise and love my Broncos. In the past 10 years we visited both Provo
and SLC (both wins!). I have to say that Ute fans in SLC were BY FAR THE WORST I
HAVE EVER ENCOUNTERED. I don't know about Max's personal experiences, but from
my families experiences at RES, they are the worst fans in the nation and I
extremely dislike (I would use hate, but I don't won't to be tarred and
feathered by Ute fans) all the fans I met at RES.
I have been to Utah-BYU games in Salt Lake. The Ute fans are without a doubt
classless in comparison to the BYU fans. They are a disgrace to the teachers
and founders of the U of U. Also, I read articles on the internet to keep up
with Utah and I find there is always some Ute fan with something to say about
BYU that ruins the experience of reading an article. I really believe Utah has
some fans that are simply BYU haters, not Ute supporters.
The reason why they pull it off is because BYU is just cool like that
Who is wyane howard and who cares what he said 32 years ago. This whole thing
about hall's words following him around for the rest of his life is lame.
Morgan scowley's comments a few years ago were more hate directed than what max
said, and pretty much no one still talks about that. So he said he hates his
Sor needs to pipe down. His Utes lost to the Cougars!
Yes, there are idiots on both sides, and to be fair I have to add that while I
have never been to a game at RES, I quit going to games at LES and the Marriot
Center because of rude, vulgar, boorish BYU fans that I invariably seemed to be
surrounded by. I spoke with them, tried to be reasonable with them, and usually
got sworn at for my trouble, sometimes more. And they couldn't even plead
alcohol as an excuse. I know they were an exception to the vast majority of
great people I met while at BYU, and quite possibly were not even students, just
local 'fans'. But big athletic venues seem to attract idiots like lights draw
moths, and I have found life to be much more pleasant by simply staying away.
I am sorry for the classless acts by a few Utah fans to BYU fans visiting RES.
There should be zero tolerance to such acts perpetrated by idiots who call
themselves Utah fans. I want no part of them and am ashamed that they are in
our ranks. I wish they could be rounded up and punished severely for their
acts. I've been to Laramie a few times and am starting to think Ute fans are as
bad as them. Maybe the MWC should cancel the rivalry game so we can all chill
out and think about it.
I took my five year old son and three year old daughter to several games at Rice
Eccles this year, and we had a wonderful time. I plan to take them much more.
I also take them to primary each Sunday in our ward. You are missing out by
judging a whole group of people based on a few bad fans. Sounds like you need
to rely more on your U degree when conducting analytical thinking. :) Exciting game the other day and congrats to your cougars. Hope to get
you next year!
RE: Dennis"What happened to the good ol days of seeing a hard, fair
fight on the field and then the players shaking their opponents hands and
sharing some thoughts as they walk off the field?"I've seen rivalry
games since the 70's. I've never seen the days you're talking about.
Sportsmanship has always been bad. You are right, though, in saying it's
getting worse. It's becoming customary now for the home fans to storm the field
after a win. (thus no handshaking by players) This also puts the opposing teams
in an uncomfortable situation. (BYU's players could barely get off the field in
2008) It's kind of sad that the fans and players of both schools have no
guaranteed safety. Maybe staying away isn't the worst idea I've heard.
re:re:BYUAnd there's no way that returned missionaries and their
families can lie.
I love all of the people bearing testimony to how much more horrible the Ute
fans are. I have also personally been to many of the rivalry games over the
last fifteen years, often sitting in sections with fans for both teams, and I
have NEVER seen beer poored on anyone. I hear cussing at every game from boths
sets of fans. I hear jeering at every game from both sets of fans. Most fans,
however, on both sides, just enjoy the game. I have sat two rows behind a Ute
fan in LES that got nailed in the side of the face with a hot dog and mustard
coming from some derranged Cougar fan. I have seen hundreds of fans throw
garbage onto the field at Ute cheerleaders. I could go on, but there are many,
many classless BYU fans. I am not stupid enough to judge all fans by these few
(like some quarterbacks I know). We see what we want to see though. If you are
going into either stadium looking for evidence of which side is worse, you will
find it. Grow up Y fans.
I'm a BYU fan, but Max's comments were inexcusable....you don't take the
verbal/poster/internet abuse from a few and attribute it to the many. The irony
of his unfair criticism of Utah's "program" and its "fans" is that it's
precisely the same type of lazy-minded stereotyping LDS members have to live
with when preachers and the media misinterpret doctrine in calling LDS
non-Christian or misapply history in calling LDS members polygamists. It stings
because it's untrue. The other unfortunate part of Max's comments is
that it shows that the few "classless" fans who insulted/taunted/criticized him
were successful in getting into his head. Jake Heaps and other BYU QBs will now
be forced to endure more of the same in the years ahead....
A graduate of BYU and Utah, I feel comfortable taking my kids to games at BYU,
but don't take them to Utah games anymore. I have been to a BYU game at every
MWC venue, the Utah fans are easily the worst. After that I would go with the
bball tourney in Vegas, where FU BYU was chanted by fans from the entire T&M
Center. One UNLV student actually followed my wife and I to the car, making
Joseph Smith slurs and polygamy comments. After my wife was carefully tucked
into the car, I turned on him, when to my surprise several UNLV fans came to my
support, pushing him away and apologizing. Frankly, the beer makes hooligans out
of fans. Mostly gracious fans everywhere I have been... just have to tune out
"How can the Utah basketball team defeat No. 20 undefeated Illinois just three
days after losing at home to first-year Division I school Seattle? And then lose
by 22 to Oklahoma State the next day?"Um...because Illinois is
"At some point, the Utes, who rank ninth in the nation for most penalties and
sixth for most penalty yards, must learn to play smarter."Good to
know utah is in the Top 10 in something.
for both fan bases, take the beer out and the problems go away. why does this
paper keep filtering my comments. there are other comments that shouldn't even
be in here, yet they are passed.
Oh,great! Does this mean we are going to the BCS! What about the National
Championship game? Are we still in the running? Oh, I guess we were mislead
I have read the posts for the past two days regarding Max Hall's oomments.These facts are self evident:1) There have been incredibly
classless comments from both BYU and Ute fans.2) There have been
classy comments from both BYU and Ute fans.3) Mature responsiblble
fans pretty much deplore what is happening in this rivalry. A few are ruining
it for everyone.4) Immature and irresponsible fans continue to fan
the flames that have pretty much turned what used to be a highly anticipated
football game into a hate-speech filled debacle.5) When our local
youth soccer league had parents of players acting like idiots at the games, the
league closed the games to spectators. Is that what needs to happen to restore
sanity to the BYU Utah game?I realize a tiny percentage of fans have
ruined this annual contest. But unless responsible people assume some
accountability for what is happening in this rivalry, the worst is yet to come.
Bank on it.The Utah newspapers need to curtail the hate speech on
these posts and the University Presidents should sit down together and discuss
what they can do to stop the ridiculous behavior.
That anytime BYU fans yell at Utah fans while at LES it is because the Utah fans
did/said something first. Many utah fans are classless - just the way it has
been for many years and the way it will be.
Yup, you're right. It's all us. Totally unjustified. Everybody KNOWS that all
those hundreds of stories about abusive Ute fans are total lies. There is NO
WAY there could ever be beer in RES. What is with these supposed returned
missionaries and their families making up such bald-faced lies.Sheesh...
Utah has fans. And it has hooligans. Hooligans are not fans.Some
respect can be shown by recognizing the difference.
Sounds like inductive reasoning to me. As a BYU fan, you induce your experience
at RES to be 100 times more of this and that (blah blah blah). I am guessing you
see what you want to see. Extreme judgments and hate are just not
going to make your life any better people. Be happy when you win and forget
about revenge and finding more pleasure in someone else losing. I believe to
many BYU fans think this description fits only Utah. It might just be that
higher level of execution relative to morality that justifies your hate eh?It cuts both ways and stinks.I was at Iggy's rooting on the
Utes a few weeks back (TCU game), and some fully blue zoobies were there in a
sea of red just to root for Utah to lose. Blue does it to.I lost my
cool some with that and regret it. Hopefully Max will learn from his hatred. If
the beer story is real, then that's a challenge to overcome. Nevertheless,
overcoming is good and hate is bad.My temper can easily boil when I
am told I am a lesser LDS member as a Ute.
I have been a season ticket holder for the cougars since 1989, I have only been
to 3 of the rivalry games up at Rice Eccles stadium 2000,2006,and 2008. and in
those three away games I have seen more fights,riots, drunks,swearing and less
class in those 3 games than I have at all 120 home games at BYU combined. Both
sides have classless fans but....
I have been assaulted almost every time I have seen a BYU-Utah game in SLC since
I was a kid. Beer being poured on me is old news, After the 2006 victory some
drunk college kids took some swings at me and a buddy of mine, that was fun to
watch-but not as good as laughing at them as they were arrested. Oh and who can
forget my head being cracked open last year in SLC when I was hit with a glass
bottle over the head, excellence. Honestly, most Utah fans I know are older
people who contribute money and time and have told me they never plan on
attending the BYU-Utah game in SLC again because of the horrible behavior of
their fellow Utah fans. And Amanda from KSL can right on that list, check her
archive from a year ago today-a lifelong ute calling the fans classless. So why
is it a big deal when Max Hall does? Oh yeah; because utah lost and they need
something to cry about.
I have gone to Byu/Utah games in both SLC and Provo. Ute fans in SLC are 100
times more foul mouthed, abusive, classless, and offensive. I could go into
details.... I have no problem with what Hall said after the game. When I left
the 2004 game i was saying the same thing. I do agree that the fans are getting
out of hand with this game. Fans from both sides could act more civilized
towards each other.
I would like to see BYU play Utah without talking trash about Ute fans and
players after the game. Austin Collie, Matt Bauman, and Max Hall- feel free to
conduct yourselves with some class after playing the Utes.I would
also like to go to a Utah - BYU without Cougar fans screaming at me. What is
wrong with you people?
Not at all..."tarnished the image many loyal fans have of you"? Not at all.
Just because Max said some things that people took offense to, and that I don't
agree with, doesn't mean his image is tarnished in my book. As I said, I don't
agree with his comments and would hope that this rivarly would be much more like
what your experience was at LES, i.e., gracious and respectful, but just because
Max said those things and voiced his opinion doesn't mean that I have to take
offense and immediatly judge him as being a bad person or arrogant or anything
else. He simply offered his opinion and it is what it is. I don't agree with
it, but at the same time I don't take offense to it nor do I at anything else
anybody says.Furthermore, it really is time to let this whole thing
go. Unfortunatly you can see that the press will continue to feed this fire now
and every year after this. I would call on these reporter and the press to do
the right thing and let it go and let it die.
You know what? I think that I am through with football. Don't get me wrong, I
like a good rival game as much as the next guy, but something has happened this
past year that has really turned me off to all the "hate" of fans and now the
players. What happened to the good ol days of seeing a hard, fair fight on the
field and then the players shaking their opponents hands and sharing some
thoughts as they walk off the field? All the hate is getting worse and I am just
afraid of what it will lead too in the next few years.
I only hope either Max Hall himself or BYU act before the Mountain West
Conference does to publicly apologize for what was said after the game Saturday.
Personally, it would be best if Max had the guts to do it himself. I was at
the game with my son-in-law who is a Ute alum and there were several Ute fans
near us. I am a BYU fan. We had great fun cheering for our respective teams.
When it was over we congratulated each other for a hard fought contest. Yes, it
is tough when your team loses, but it is only a game and life goes on. This
taints a fantastic finish and a hard fought contest. Yes, there are fans from
both institutions who do stupid things, but it is very unfair to place a label
on an entire institution for the acts of a few. Max, I have admired you for
what you have achieved as a BYU quarterback. In just a few words that I am sure
you regret saying, you have tarnished the image many loyal fans have of you.
I think the Aggies will have a great shot at a bowl game next year. This year
they were something like 12 points away from having seven wins, and that is
almost completely because of the coaching, considering he was working with
relatively low talent players, other than Robert Turbin, Diondre Borel, Kejon
Murphy, and James Brindley. I predict seven wins next year, and 8-9 the next
year with Turbin being a senior. Hopefully after that we can continue the
momentum and take it to the next level and start competing with Boise and
whoever else might be at the top of the WAC.
Utah state doesn't have to worry about Utah for a little while. Hopefully Utah
St can go to a bowl soon.
While Max Hall should not have used the word "hate," he
described the classlessness of many Ute fans quite well.I have experienced the wrath of some of the Utah fans and I certainly hope
they do not represent the majority!BUT when I went up to
the BYU/Utah game last year, there were a bunch of Utah fans who came up to our
section, used terrible profanity and flipped us off and said nasty things about
the LDS Church.I guess we were lucky they didn't want to
waste their beer. Max's family wasn't so lucky."Classless" is the right word to describe many Ute fans.
The Holy War is definitely one of the best rivalry games in the Nation. Each
year produces tremendous excitement with plenty of sub plots to sink your teeth
into. Props for an awesome rivalry that we get to enjoy here in Utah every