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Mike Sorensen: Rivalry dishes out talking points

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  • Re: Cynic
    Dec. 3, 2009 11:19 p.m.

    If you wanted a good fun rivalry game, you missed one on Wednesday. The BYU-Utah State (and I know this is no where big a rivalry as the BYU-Utah is) basketball game was full of jeers, taunts, and some rather rude things directed at BYU players, and coaches, most dealing with the Max Hall incident, but it was just one school trying to take another out of its game. I watched as after the game, one of the few BYU fans (this one fan was reacting to us, and yelling things back. I don't know what I was on the opposite side of the floor.) who were able to get tickets for the game and a couple Utah State fans shook hands and talked, that is good sportsman ship, not to mention the players who recognized it as a good, solid, fun rivalry.

  • Chiefs Fan
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:32 p.m.

    Mike, I'm sure most Utah grads won't lose any sleep over Max's comments. As for those few that are offended, perhaps they should consider the behavior of Utah fans towards Hall's family that led to those comments.

  • Hall didn't offend me
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:35 a.m.

    "Does Hall realize how many people he offended?"

    Halls comments didn't offend me ... I completely understand what he said and why he said it ...
    and I'm a lifelong Ute fan.

    I am embarrassed at the boorish, uncivilized behaviors of more than a few Ute fans.
    It's just a game.
    I believe 99% of Ute fans are not the problem- but when we let the other 1% act as they do then the whole school gets tarnished.
    Throwing beer on someone is unacceptable. Swearing endlessly is unacceptable If you see someone doing these things near you -call them on it. Tell them to knock it off, shut up and act civilized. And if you need to have them thrown out.

    And the media doesn’t help by stirring the pot, just because it makes a good sotry. They need to step up and take some accountablity too.

    Where has civility gone?

  • las vegas ute
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:41 a.m.

    a great game i think i can take the hate talk big boys don't cry

  • It Will Only Get Worse
    Nov. 30, 2009 7:51 p.m.

    In the past the two teams were generally unevenly matched when they played and it was only for bragging rights. Now we have two good coaches that will have good teams and the games will often count for more than just bragging rights. Trash talk doesn't especially bother me but physical acts such as punching, shoving, spitting, throwing drinks, etc. has got to STOP.

    I believe both schools need to get a handle on it immediately otherwise it will get way out of hand and a wonderful rivalry will become very dangerous.

  • Ben H.
    Nov. 30, 2009 6:28 p.m.

    Mike,

    The Utes and the Aggies don't play again until 2012. Maybe the Ags will go to a bowl game without that automatic loss on their schedule.

  • Ben H.
    Nov. 30, 2009 6:28 p.m.

    Mike,

    The Utes and the Aggies don't play again until 2012. Maybe the Ags will go to a bowl game without that automatic loss on their schedule.

  • Bring It!
    Nov. 30, 2009 6:27 p.m.

    Who cares about the trash talk between Utah and Y?
    The Kitties are coming to Logan for some real trash talking.
    Be Afraid Kitties. Be real afraid.

  • BYU lover and hater
    Nov. 30, 2009 4:53 p.m.

    Max said some dumb things. That is all. I am sure that he regrets it now. Leave it to the overly offended and offensive bloggers, message board posters, and overzealous media to keep this issue rolling for years to come. Yeah. I can't wait. Rodney Kind said it best "Why can't we all just get along?"

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 30, 2009 4:28 p.m.

    I think that BYU can't handle a college football rivalry. Mormon sensibilities are too easily offended and a big-time college football game is going to bring out hostility from opposing fans. I keep reading and hearing about how Y fans are offended by language and beer when they visit RES. Both are protected by the Constitution of the United States!

  • TO: Brian from AZ
    Nov. 30, 2009 3:50 p.m.

    You are crazy - we have had season tickets for Utah Football for 10 years and Utah Basketball for 15 years - I have had only 1 situation where I had to talk to someone behind us and then the fan apologized and has been great ever since and even jokes about it to this day and mentioned how much my kids have grown. I think you are just spewing hatred just like Max Hall. Either that or you have the worst luck buying your seats. Come to section N19 next game and we will show you how fans have fun at games, stand up the whole time, and cheer on our UTES. Your post reminds me of several this weekend of people that sound like they are making stuff up to prove some point about the moral superiority of BYU which is fine - it is a church school and should have higher standards - I am totally OK with that.

  • who cares
    Nov. 30, 2009 2:37 p.m.

    boo hoo Max hates us,wait a minute dont we hate BYU

  • Re: Wyane Howard?
    Nov. 30, 2009 2:32 p.m.

    Who cares about Wayne Howard and what he said 32 years ago?

    Well, for one, since he was the head football coach of Utah it demonstrates that the Utes have been hating BYU and talking trash long before Max Hall ever came along.

    Here was a man who publicly accused that paragon of classiness, Lavell Edwards (whom the Ute fans hated while he was coach but love now that he's retired) and his staff of cheating.

    Who publicly announced his dislike of BYU and the LDS church.

    Who openly encouraged fans to hate BYU in ways that would make even Morgan Scalley blush.

    The Utes started this war. Max Hall just got caught up in it.

  • Tommy Trojan
    Nov. 30, 2009 2:23 p.m.

    The best part of Sorensen's column dealt with the USC vs. UCLA thing. I don't think Rick Neuheusial will try that dumb stunt again.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 30, 2009 2:05 p.m.

    man if only I had a nickel for everytime the word "class" or some version of it was used in these boards over the last few days...well... I'd have a lot of nickels. Let's bust out a thesaurus people

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 30, 2009 1:33 p.m.


    Hey Max said he was sorry — haven’t any of you - all knowing — ever said anything that you wanted to take back … probably not .. but I have.
    Just let it go, remember he is a 20’s year old jock.
    If you have ever played any sport especially basketball or football or soccer — they are all hard contact and you can lose you kewl. I have gotten into fist-fights with best friend and walked away as friends.
    But when idiot FANATICS aka FANS — throw beer and use profane words at your family it is very hard to not get very ticked-off. It has happened to me at RES … but naturally I forgave them and turned the other cheek as would any YOUT if that happened to them … NOT.

  • BYU fan
    Nov. 30, 2009 1:16 p.m.


    As for Max as a QB — he doesn’t seem to do well under real pressure — I don’t know if he wants to go into the NFL but I doubt if he will be drafted very high if at all. Just look at last year & this year BYU — Utah games.
    At the end of the game the BYU coaching staff sure didn’t do a great job of clock management — what is the story there?
    BY the way — I was raised in Cache Valley and in the 1950’s during B-ball season they closed the games at Logan High to fan attendance because there were so many fights - it did stop the problem.

  • Laughable
    Nov. 30, 2009 1:12 p.m.

    As someone who is neither a Ute fan nor a Y fan, I can honestly say that neither side has a monopoly on virtue or vice. Ute fans swear; Y fans swear. Ute fans can be offensive; Y fans can be offensive. Ute fans can lie; Y fans can lie. Ute fans drink beer; Y fans drink beer (do you honestly think only "active" Mormons cheer for the Y?).

    Max Hall was an idiot to say what he did, because he assumed only Ute fans, players, coaches, etc. are awful, and everyone who stereotypes Y fans, players, coaches, etc. is an idiot, for the same reason. I don't believe Mr. Hall's apology was completely sincere, and those who are saying that any U fan who refuses to accept it is as classless as Hall said are like small children who expect that just saying sorry is always enough, even when "I'm sorry" is said with loads of sarcasm and insincerety. When he means it, it'll be accepted.

    Oh, and this is not even close to the biggest rivalry game in the country. Anyone who says that has never been to a Big-10 or SEC game.

  • Boise St. Bronco
    Nov. 30, 2009 12:45 p.m.

    I'm from Boise and love my Broncos. In the past 10 years we visited both Provo and SLC (both wins!). I have to say that Ute fans in SLC were BY FAR THE WORST I HAVE EVER ENCOUNTERED. I don't know about Max's personal experiences, but from my families experiences at RES, they are the worst fans in the nation and I extremely dislike (I would use hate, but I don't won't to be tarred and feathered by Ute fans) all the fans I met at RES.

  • Jared for Cal.
    Nov. 30, 2009 11:24 a.m.

    I have been to Utah-BYU games in Salt Lake. The Ute fans are without a doubt classless in comparison to the BYU fans. They are a disgrace to the teachers and founders of the U of U. Also, I read articles on the internet to keep up with Utah and I find there is always some Ute fan with something to say about BYU that ruins the experience of reading an article. I really believe Utah has some fans that are simply BYU haters, not Ute supporters.

  • BYU
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:53 a.m.

    The reason why they pull it off is because BYU is just cool like that

  • Wyane Howard?
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:47 a.m.

    Who is wyane howard and who cares what he said 32 years ago. This whole thing about hall's words following him around for the rest of his life is lame. Morgan scowley's comments a few years ago were more hate directed than what max said, and pretty much no one still talks about that. So he said he hates his rivals....who cares.

  • Blip Hanger
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:34 a.m.

    Sor needs to pipe down. His Utes lost to the Cougars!

  • Brenden
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:34 a.m.

    Yes, there are idiots on both sides, and to be fair I have to add that while I have never been to a game at RES, I quit going to games at LES and the Marriot Center because of rude, vulgar, boorish BYU fans that I invariably seemed to be surrounded by. I spoke with them, tried to be reasonable with them, and usually got sworn at for my trouble, sometimes more. And they couldn't even plead alcohol as an excuse. I know they were an exception to the vast majority of great people I met while at BYU, and quite possibly were not even students, just local 'fans'. But big athletic venues seem to attract idiots like lights draw moths, and I have found life to be much more pleasant by simply staying away.

  • Old Ute Fan
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:34 a.m.

    I am sorry for the classless acts by a few Utah fans to BYU fans visiting RES. There should be zero tolerance to such acts perpetrated by idiots who call themselves Utah fans. I want no part of them and am ashamed that they are in our ranks. I wish they could be rounded up and punished severely for their acts. I've been to Laramie a few times and am starting to think Ute fans are as bad as them. Maybe the MWC should cancel the rivalry game so we can all chill out and think about it.

  • To: Brian from AZ
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:33 a.m.

    I took my five year old son and three year old daughter to several games at Rice Eccles this year, and we had a wonderful time. I plan to take them much more. I also take them to primary each Sunday in our ward. You are missing out by judging a whole group of people based on a few bad fans. Sounds like you need to rely more on your U degree when conducting analytical thinking. :)

    Exciting game the other day and congrats to your cougars. Hope to get you next year!

  • Cynic
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:00 a.m.

    RE: Dennis

    "What happened to the good ol days of seeing a hard, fair fight on the field and then the players shaking their opponents hands and sharing some thoughts as they walk off the field?"

    I've seen rivalry games since the 70's. I've never seen the days you're talking about. Sportsmanship has always been bad. You are right, though, in saying it's getting worse. It's becoming customary now for the home fans to storm the field after a win. (thus no handshaking by players) This also puts the opposing teams in an uncomfortable situation. (BYU's players could barely get off the field in 2008) It's kind of sad that the fans and players of both schools have no guaranteed safety. Maybe staying away isn't the worst idea I've heard.

  • danburtreynolds
    Nov. 30, 2009 9:48 a.m.

    re:re:BYU

    And there's no way that returned missionaries and their families can lie.

  • You see what you want to see
    Nov. 30, 2009 9:41 a.m.

    I love all of the people bearing testimony to how much more horrible the Ute fans are. I have also personally been to many of the rivalry games over the last fifteen years, often sitting in sections with fans for both teams, and I have NEVER seen beer poored on anyone. I hear cussing at every game from boths sets of fans. I hear jeering at every game from both sets of fans. Most fans, however, on both sides, just enjoy the game. I have sat two rows behind a Ute fan in LES that got nailed in the side of the face with a hot dog and mustard coming from some derranged Cougar fan. I have seen hundreds of fans throw garbage onto the field at Ute cheerleaders. I could go on, but there are many, many classless BYU fans. I am not stupid enough to judge all fans by these few (like some quarterbacks I know). We see what we want to see though. If you are going into either stadium looking for evidence of which side is worse, you will find it. Grow up Y fans.

  • Lazy-minded stereotyping
    Nov. 30, 2009 9:38 a.m.

    I'm a BYU fan, but Max's comments were inexcusable....you don't take the verbal/poster/internet abuse from a few and attribute it to the many. The irony of his unfair criticism of Utah's "program" and its "fans" is that it's precisely the same type of lazy-minded stereotyping LDS members have to live with when preachers and the media misinterpret doctrine in calling LDS non-Christian or misapply history in calling LDS members polygamists. It stings because it's untrue.

    The other unfortunate part of Max's comments is that it shows that the few "classless" fans who insulted/taunted/criticized him were successful in getting into his head. Jake Heaps and other BYU QBs will now be forced to endure more of the same in the years ahead....

  • Brian from AZ
    Nov. 30, 2009 9:17 a.m.

    A graduate of BYU and Utah, I feel comfortable taking my kids to games at BYU, but don't take them to Utah games anymore. I have been to a BYU game at every MWC venue, the Utah fans are easily the worst. After that I would go with the bball tourney in Vegas, where FU BYU was chanted by fans from the entire T&M Center. One UNLV student actually followed my wife and I to the car, making Joseph Smith slurs and polygamy comments. After my wife was carefully tucked into the car, I turned on him, when to my surprise several UNLV fans came to my support, pushing him away and apologizing. Frankly, the beer makes hooligans out of fans. Mostly gracious fans everywhere I have been... just have to tune out the idiots.

  • It isn't obvious?
    Nov. 30, 2009 9:16 a.m.

    "How can the Utah basketball team defeat No. 20 undefeated Illinois just three days after losing at home to first-year Division I school Seattle? And then lose by 22 to Oklahoma State the next day?"

    Um...because Illinois is overrated? Duh...

  • Ernest T. Bass
    Nov. 30, 2009 9:11 a.m.

    "At some point, the Utes, who rank ninth in the nation for most penalties and sixth for most penalty yards, must learn to play smarter."

    Good to know utah is in the Top 10 in something.

  • mhe
    Nov. 30, 2009 9:00 a.m.

    for both fan bases, take the beer out and the problems go away. why does this paper keep filtering my comments. there are other comments that shouldn't even be in here, yet they are passed.

  • BYU #1 Fan
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:45 a.m.

    Oh,great! Does this mean we are going to the BCS! What about the National Championship game? Are we still in the running? Oh, I guess we were mislead again.

  • Sierra Blue
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:22 a.m.

    I have read the posts for the past two days regarding Max Hall's oomments.

    These facts are self evident:

    1) There have been incredibly classless comments from both BYU and Ute fans.

    2) There have been classy comments from both BYU and Ute fans.

    3) Mature responsiblble fans pretty much deplore what is happening in this rivalry. A few are ruining it for everyone.

    4) Immature and irresponsible fans continue to fan the flames that have pretty much turned what used to be a highly anticipated football game into a hate-speech filled debacle.

    5) When our local youth soccer league had parents of players acting like idiots at the games, the league closed the games to spectators. Is that what needs to happen to restore sanity to the BYU Utah game?

    I realize a tiny percentage of fans have ruined this annual contest. But unless responsible people assume some accountability for what is happening in this rivalry, the worst is yet to come. Bank on it.

    The Utah newspapers need to curtail the hate speech on these posts and the University Presidents should sit down together and discuss what they can do to stop the ridiculous behavior.



  • Guaranteed
    Nov. 30, 2009 6:12 a.m.

    That anytime BYU fans yell at Utah fans while at LES it is because the Utah fans did/said something first. Many utah fans are classless - just the way it has been for many years and the way it will be.

  • re: BYU
    Nov. 30, 2009 5:47 a.m.

    Yup, you're right. It's all us. Totally unjustified. Everybody KNOWS that all those hundreds of stories about abusive Ute fans are total lies. There is NO WAY there could ever be beer in RES. What is with these supposed returned missionaries and their families making up such bald-faced lies.

    Sheesh...

  • S2
    Nov. 30, 2009 5:46 a.m.

    Utah has fans. And it has hooligans. Hooligans are not fans.

    Some respect can be shown by recognizing the difference.

  • RE; Todd in Idaho.
    Nov. 30, 2009 5:23 a.m.

    Sounds like inductive reasoning to me. As a BYU fan, you induce your experience at RES to be 100 times more of this and that (blah blah blah). I am guessing you see what you want to see.

    Extreme judgments and hate are just not going to make your life any better people. Be happy when you win and forget about revenge and finding more pleasure in someone else losing. I believe to many BYU fans think this description fits only Utah. It might just be that higher level of execution relative to morality that justifies your hate eh?

    It cuts both ways and stinks.

    I was at Iggy's rooting on the Utes a few weeks back (TCU game), and some fully blue zoobies were there in a sea of red just to root for Utah to lose. Blue does it to.

    I lost my cool some with that and regret it. Hopefully Max will learn from his hatred. If the beer story is real, then that's a challenge to overcome. Nevertheless, overcoming is good and hate is bad.

    My temper can easily boil when I am told I am a lesser LDS member as a Ute.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 30, 2009 2:27 a.m.

    I have been a season ticket holder for the cougars since 1989, I have only been to 3 of the rivalry games up at Rice Eccles stadium 2000,2006,and 2008. and in those three away games I have seen more fights,riots, drunks,swearing and less class in those 3 games than I have at all 120 home games at BYU combined. Both sides have classless fans but....

  • Assaulted
    Nov. 30, 2009 1:35 a.m.

    I have been assaulted almost every time I have seen a BYU-Utah game in SLC since I was a kid. Beer being poured on me is old news, After the 2006 victory some drunk college kids took some swings at me and a buddy of mine, that was fun to watch-but not as good as laughing at them as they were arrested. Oh and who can forget my head being cracked open last year in SLC when I was hit with a glass bottle over the head, excellence. Honestly, most Utah fans I know are older people who contribute money and time and have told me they never plan on attending the BYU-Utah game in SLC again because of the horrible behavior of their fellow Utah fans. And Amanda from KSL can right on that list, check her archive from a year ago today-a lifelong ute calling the fans classless. So why is it a big deal when Max Hall does? Oh yeah; because utah lost and they need something to cry about.

  • Todd in Idaho
    Nov. 29, 2009 11:57 p.m.

    I have gone to Byu/Utah games in both SLC and Provo. Ute fans in SLC are 100 times more foul mouthed, abusive, classless, and offensive. I could go into details.... I have no problem with what Hall said after the game. When I left the 2004 game i was saying the same thing. I do agree that the fans are getting out of hand with this game. Fans from both sides could act more civilized towards each other.

  • BYU
    Nov. 29, 2009 10:44 p.m.

    I would like to see BYU play Utah without talking trash about Ute fans and players after the game. Austin Collie, Matt Bauman, and Max Hall- feel free to conduct yourselves with some class after playing the Utes.

    I would also like to go to a Utah - BYU without Cougar fans screaming at me. What is wrong with you people?

  • re: Lee Harlan
    Nov. 29, 2009 10:12 p.m.

    Not at all..."tarnished the image many loyal fans have of you"? Not at all. Just because Max said some things that people took offense to, and that I don't agree with, doesn't mean his image is tarnished in my book. As I said, I don't agree with his comments and would hope that this rivarly would be much more like what your experience was at LES, i.e., gracious and respectful, but just because Max said those things and voiced his opinion doesn't mean that I have to take offense and immediatly judge him as being a bad person or arrogant or anything else. He simply offered his opinion and it is what it is. I don't agree with it, but at the same time I don't take offense to it nor do I at anything else anybody says.

    Furthermore, it really is time to let this whole thing go. Unfortunatly you can see that the press will continue to feed this fire now and every year after this. I would call on these reporter and the press to do the right thing and let it go and let it die.

  • Dennis
    Nov. 29, 2009 9:27 p.m.

    You know what? I think that I am through with football. Don't get me wrong, I like a good rival game as much as the next guy, but something has happened this past year that has really turned me off to all the "hate" of fans and now the players. What happened to the good ol days of seeing a hard, fair fight on the field and then the players shaking their opponents hands and sharing some thoughts as they walk off the field? All the hate is getting worse and I am just afraid of what it will lead too in the next few years.

  • Lee Harlan
    Nov. 29, 2009 9:11 p.m.

    I only hope either Max Hall himself or BYU act before the Mountain West Conference does to publicly apologize for what was said after the game Saturday. Personally, it would be best if Max had the guts to do it himself. I was at the game with my son-in-law who is a Ute alum and there were several Ute fans near us. I am a BYU fan. We had great fun cheering for our respective teams. When it was over we congratulated each other for a hard fought contest. Yes, it is tough when your team loses, but it is only a game and life goes on. This taints a fantastic finish and a hard fought contest. Yes, there are fans from both institutions who do stupid things, but it is very unfair to place a label on an entire institution for the acts of a few. Max, I have admired you for what you have achieved as a BYU quarterback. In just a few words that I am sure you regret saying, you have tarnished the image many loyal fans have of you.

  • Justin
    Nov. 29, 2009 9:07 p.m.

    I think the Aggies will have a great shot at a bowl game next year. This year they were something like 12 points away from having seven wins, and that is almost completely because of the coaching, considering he was working with relatively low talent players, other than Robert Turbin, Diondre Borel, Kejon Murphy, and James Brindley. I predict seven wins next year, and 8-9 the next year with Turbin being a senior. Hopefully after that we can continue the momentum and take it to the next level and start competing with Boise and whoever else might be at the top of the WAC.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 29, 2009 8:44 p.m.

    Utah state doesn't have to worry about Utah for a little while. Hopefully Utah St can go to a bowl soon.

  • A NON BYU or UTAH Fan!
    Nov. 29, 2009 8:42 p.m.




    While Max Hall should not have used the word "hate," he described the classlessness of many Ute fans quite well.



    I have experienced the wrath of some of the Utah fans and I certainly hope they do not represent the majority!



    BUT when I went up to the BYU/Utah game last year, there were a bunch of Utah fans who came up to our section, used terrible profanity and flipped us off and said nasty things about the LDS Church.



    I guess we were lucky they didn't want to waste their beer. Max's family wasn't so lucky.



    "Classless" is the right word to describe many Ute fans.




  • Best Rivalry in Nation
    Nov. 29, 2009 8:41 p.m.

    The Holy War is definitely one of the best rivalry games in the Nation. Each year produces tremendous excitement with plenty of sub plots to sink your teeth into. Props for an awesome rivalry that we get to enjoy here in Utah every year.