Comments about ‘Former state legislators support ethics initiative’

LOL Of course our "leaders" dont want outside scrutiny. Why would they?

Ethics and politics should never be in the same sentence. Same as police and common sense. Or taser and traffic violation.

Once again, our elected officials living in anther world, a world above the very laws they are sworn to uphold.

Wake up America. We elected these nitwits. Make them accountable.

Just as Scott McClellan's sudden realization of the Bush administrations terrible behavior was ludicrously convenient, so are these former state legislators children of convenience.

It's fascinating that they only discover ethics AFTER leaving the legislature. This makes their public utterances so blatantly hypocritical, it makes one wonder where this massive hubris and imperviousness to irony comes from.

In reality, this ethics initiative is a steaming pile of crap, an amalgamation of good intentions wrapped up in sloppy language, unconstitutional provisions, and raging hypocrisy. The legislature can do better on ethics, but this offering from Utahns for Ethical Government is a step in the wrong direction, even if it is for the right reasons.

As a Republican who strongly supports the ethics initiative, Utah GOP leadership better take this seriously. As I talk to my neighborhood friends including Republicans, they are sick of the special interests that rule this state. The GOP cannot afford the image that it only listens to big business and not their constituents. Why do we need big business dollars for campaign anyway - we spend way too much money on campaigns. Wouldn't it be nice if that money was spent on education - now wouldn't that be a novel idea. I don't need multiple flyers in my mailbox. One is enough - thank you very much.

Suspicious.
Well, everything maybe as you say, but just like the medical care: We can't afford to let this go another minute.

If we back off from ethics, our legislature will see it as a win for them and they won't do anything to fix the problem. Now, they are scared. That is definitely a good thing for the citizens.

The "ethics" problem in Utah is not a problem. Period. We have one of the most hard-working, part-time (6 weeks a year!) legislatures - who are known nationwide for their balanced budgets and who win awards for being ethical!

It is just such a popular hobby to criticize (maybe we need some "real" problems?) the legislature. It is amazing we can get anyone decent to serve in it. Thanks legislators for doing your job!

And coming from Detroit where there actually are ethics problems, corruption, and union self-dealings through the elected officials, I just have to say "take a rest!" Utahns. Things are good here. We have limits on the gifts that are VERY low, and good ethics rules.

It is really a joke to think Utah has wide-spread ethics problems that demand sweeping "reform". Just not true or worth our time. Find out who is cheating and deal with them (we actually do this quite well, also, by the way). But we shouldn't kid ourselves into believing this is an important issue.

Let's talk education standards or care for the mentally ill - real issues.

Is it ethical to hold an opinion on an initiative you haven't read?

The ethics initiative has very little to do with ethics and a whole lot to do with harassing legislators. guilty until proven innocent...five named individuals with powers to choose people for the ethics committee...a fourth branch of government not checked by any other branch of government...hearsay evidence can be used as fact...subpoena power without judicial oversight...may ask for financial records of cousins of legislators..etc, etc, etc. If its good for legislators maybe they should impose the same requirements on every elected office in the state, every state employee and every government volunteer board. Then more people may figure out that not only is this initiative unethical, its likely to be found unconstitutional as well.

Read the initiative. It is very deceptive and misleading. It places nearly unlimited power in the hands of a small group of people who can or will be selected and appointed by a flawed process.

This is a means to impose tyranny by endless investigations, innuendo and charges without any foundation in fact, and little opportunity for the innocent to recover their reputation.

This is the sort of stuff that liberals love, lofty feel good sounding names, but devilish details that end up producing results nearly the opposite of what they say they want.

This initiative is a very seriously flawed plan that needs to be defeated any way possible.

Question- "But, who could possibly be opposed to 'Ethics'?"
Answer- "No one. But this is not ethics, just dirty politics in disguise."
A

This greatly weakens democracy in Utah. You are creating an unelected body that will sit in judgement of all elected officials and activities.

This has far more to do with George Orwell or the Soviet Union than freedome. Bottom line, these folks don't like losing elections and have resorted to this world class populism to remove power in Utah.

While they may have 35 former state legislators that support ending democracy I have no doubt there are twice that many who oppose this.

Bad intentions and bad language!

Can you show me where it’s working? The first rule in good business or government is before anyone spends a half million dollars on a new program show me where it’s working.
In this case UEG needs to show Utahns and our legislature what other state their initiative is working well in and why they believe it will improve our legislative process. They should do this before we spend one dollar on an untested process. The devil is always in the details.

How much money did Olene Walker keep from her failed campaign for governor? What was it, 4 million dollars?

The legislators have been trying for 3 special commissions and millions of dollars to write some ethics and every time they are discarded. Now seeing that these same legislators can't decide what ethics and moral government is, we must wake up these elected immoralist.

There are many who are in office that support this initiative so it must be on the right road to establish some rule of law with the legislators.

It is not another branch of government, its an oversight committee. This initiative is not unconstitutional, it reinforces the constitution and its intent for honest elected government representation. However, its not a bad idea if the initiative was added to the constitution to affect all levels of government state wide. Including county's, cities, judges, and any elected or appointed position.

Our constitutions demand that there be a separation of powers in government but they are all sleeping together and you can't tell where one ends and the other begins. I love the restrictions to becoming a lobbyists, its like insider trading.

Only the immoral and corrupt and special interest groups fear it as an affront to their livelihood and prosperity and personal financial gains.

The ethics initiative may not be perfect-but Utah's system needs fixing and now there is a large group demanding reform that is not going to go away!

Now is the chance for voters to elect candidates that will change the election laws in Utah or face the consequences of repeated ethics initiatives in this state.

My biggest concerns with the UEG initiative is the impact it will have on free speech protections. Per the language it contains, who determines what are reasonable contributions? If we want to enact ethics reform relative to contributions an gifts, we should allow anyone to give any amount and then DEMAND that every penny be documented. This would 1. Be the simplest to implement, 2. Leave the decision to retain or remove with the people--the voters 3. Be transparent.

How can any thinking voter turn down the opportunity to open the doors to the "law making" kitchen so that those who have been elected can show us their true colors? We have a chance to send a message to our representatives that we want to know what is really going on. They should have no problem with this initiative. Unless, of course they have something to hide. As I read and review where our tax money is spent I am amazed at the waste. Now they are telling us we need to be taxed more...let's get our spending house in order first. Demonstrate to us that you have spent this money in a wise, responsible fashion. WHERE DO I SIGN?

Always benefits those in power. Why would those in power want any kind of balanace in a one party state?

We must act on this for the good of all the people, please take the time to find and sign a petition. Be prepared for the big money to back an effort to defeat this initiative, they stand to lose much influence. Nothing wrong with giving us little people a say on this issue, the only way we actually have a say is to force a ballot initiative. The legislature would love for us to leave it in their hands so they can force feed us the status quo. They have grown so pompous that they actually believe we couldn't possibly know what's good for us. Overblown would have us believe " if it ain't broke don't fix it", well, it is broke. Our leaders don't even bother with duct tape, let alone a proper repair, "lets just cover it with a curtain". Please Utah, look past their curtains, demand transparency. This petition is good for the people, bad for special interests.

Ethics legislation is fine, just not this piece. Read the 30 + page document and you will find it establishes a bureaucracy with no over site and unlimited power with unlimited funding after the first year. The panel writes their own budget and neither Governor, Legislature, or Courts have any jurisdiction over them. Even School funding takes a back seat to this self appointed group. Before you sign your name, read the entire document. Know what you are signing.

-This bill says that if Republicans and Democrats can't agree on 20 people to potentially serve on an ethics committee, "the sponsors (those unelected people who wrote the bill)...unanimously shall select the 20 candidates."

-If the bill becomes law, the only way a member is removed is "by reason of death, disability, resignation, or disqualification" meaning there is no expiration or legislative process to remove a committee member.

-They can investigate current legislators as well as "those who have served at any time in the past".

-What is written into law is only the beginning of their powers ("This Act shall be construed liberally in furthance of its remedial goals.")

-Further down we read the commission is vested with "power and jurisdiction...to investigate...and to do all things, whether herein specifically designated or in addition thereto."


-"The commission may employ additional staff" meaning they can self-bloat without legislative or executive oversight

-"Although the commission serves the legislature and is not an agency within the executive branch of state government, the commission nevertheless shall have the powers and shall adopt the procedures of the Utah Administrative Rulemaking Act. This rulemaking power shall include the power to make rules governing the internal processes of the commission (meaning they are self-governing with legislative and executive authority)..."

-The commission may "[issue] subpoenas in order to compel the production of documents and the attendance and testimony of witnesses" (more executive powers)

-"The commission shall meet, allocate its budget (legislative function), marshall its resources, prioritize its work, and conduct its business as it deems appropriate, and its independence in this regard shall not be abridged, impaired, or threatened by the legislature, any committe of the legislature, or any legislator." (ULTIMATE POWER--THEY BECOME THE UNTOUCHABLES)


-Legislators will need to annually disclose "the names, addresses, and telephone numbers of any person with which the legislator has an agency relationship, including any client of a legislator...[from whom they've received at least $10,000 in the prior year]." (This will violate confidentiality agreements between professionals and their clients and is a violation of law)