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Robert A. Book: Even without 'public option,' government would run health care
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More anti- government..... | 4:07 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
aaaaaaahuuuuuuum. I'm so bored with this anti-government rhetoric. Health
care is allready controlled by the government. Ever heard of the FDA? Why in the
world are people still trying to misslead the public that this is some communist
take over?
This IS a moral debate. This IS about health insurance companies profits. That's all. The current bill is not socialist in even the slightest degree.
Do just a smidgeon of independent research and can have the truth about this.
We are the only industrialized nation that isn't smart enough to pay half and cover everyone. duh
This IS a moral debate. This IS about health insurance companies profits. That's all. The current bill is not socialist in even the slightest degree.
Do just a smidgeon of independent research and can have the truth about this.
We are the only industrialized nation that isn't smart enough to pay half and cover everyone. duh
Anonymous | 4:29 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
Since the radicals who are currently running our government want to ram their
version of health care down everyones throat be advised certain providers are
setting up health care facilities in Costa Rica, thus providing us with an
option to receive good medical care when Obamacare becomes the law of the land.
I for one will opt to go to Costa Rica in the event life threatening surgery is
required because Obamacare will certainly result in long waiting periods, and
don't want to die prematurely. Thank you radical left for destroying the
world's best medial system. Oh by the way congress has written into law
it's members will be exempt. If it's not good enough for them why
should it be good enough for everyone else?
Comments continue below
JMT | 6:28 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
Anonmyous 12:50. I may have misunderstood you. You are of the opinion that you
can vote these new government employees out of office? Actually, no. They
don't run for office. Elected officials come and go but bueacracys live on
forever.
What this amounts to is Federalizing the entire national plan under one massive mandate. I want a revolution!
What this amounts to is Federalizing the entire national plan under one massive mandate. I want a revolution!
Heritage Foundation | 7:45 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
AGAINST ALL OBAMA!
Got it.
Got it.
Commodity | 8:12 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
Health Care is a commodity produced by people. It can not be a
"right". The sooner the government gets out of the way of individuals
buying the health care commodity, the sooner prices will go down and everyone
will be happier.
jackhp | 8:45 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
@Commodity -
A commodity? Here are the definitions of "commodity" according to the Yahoo dictionary:
1. Something useful that can be turned to commercial or other advantage.
2. An article of trade or commerce, especially an agricultural or mining product that can be processed and resold.
3. Advantage; benefit.
I don't know about you but when I need health care I don't want someone to be getting a "commercial or other advantage" off of my misfortune. Get rid of the middlemen; single-payer is the way to go.
A commodity? Here are the definitions of "commodity" according to the Yahoo dictionary:
1. Something useful that can be turned to commercial or other advantage.
2. An article of trade or commerce, especially an agricultural or mining product that can be processed and resold.
3. Advantage; benefit.
I don't know about you but when I need health care I don't want someone to be getting a "commercial or other advantage" off of my misfortune. Get rid of the middlemen; single-payer is the way to go.
History | 9:17 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
When health insurance companies first began they were non-profit. Somewhere
along the line somebody figured out money could be made by collecting premiums
and denying services. So that is where we are today.
We should go back to the non-profit for basic care. Let the insurance companies compete for customers by selling supplemental insurance. Insurance companies still operate and compete for customers in other countries with universal care.
We should go back to the non-profit for basic care. Let the insurance companies compete for customers by selling supplemental insurance. Insurance companies still operate and compete for customers in other countries with universal care.
@anonymous | 9:27 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
Thanks for the information of Costa Rica. My goal is to never use health care
of any sort, except for the annual physical which shows me the state of my
health for my own monitoring. I do not intend to use any chemical drugs. For
someone like me, who plans to die a natural death and to avoid the allelopathic
medical world, the health care bill is nothing more than a tax and a burden that
I pay for living a healthy life. There is not benefit or system to encourage
people to live a healthy life. The system as proposed with be flooded with
overuse by a certain hypochondriac segment of our population and people who
through their own behavior misuse their bodies and expect some doctor to correct
that.
Not quite... | 9:51 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
"Is this the reform we want?"
Not quite. The reform we actually *want* would be to quit the pretending and throw the private insurance companies out right from the beginning. Single payer is the reform that will actually work.
Not quite. The reform we actually *want* would be to quit the pretending and throw the private insurance companies out right from the beginning. Single payer is the reform that will actually work.
Brother Chuck Schroeder | 9:58 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
GET EDUCATED Utah. It's NOT about when health insurance companies first
began they were non-profit. It's ALL ABOUT UNION's. Unions are killing
everything off in America. When will YOU wake-up, and, smell the coffee.
Here's another example here.
Unions Halt Kosmas Support Over Health Care Vote
U.S. Rep. Suzanne Kosmas, D-New Smyrna Beach, is taking more hits from the left over her vote against the Democratic health care plan that barely passed the House this month - without her support - and the fallout continued over the weekend from her previously staunch labor supporters.
Volusia/Flagler Central Labor Council President Stacy Stepanovich sent a letter to Kosmas this weekend letting her know that Central Florida labor groups will halt all contributions to her campaign until further notice, due to the Kosmas 'no' vote.
While the labor groups' early 2010 endorsement still holds, the Central Florida, Space Coast and Volusia/Flagler AFL-CIO's all voted unanimously Thursday night to suspend check-writing, flier walks, and any other efforts for the Kosmas campaign, according to this letter to Kosmas.
.
The Progressive Change Campaign Committee came out against Kosmas last week for the same reason.
Unions Halt Kosmas Support Over Health Care Vote
U.S. Rep. Suzanne Kosmas, D-New Smyrna Beach, is taking more hits from the left over her vote against the Democratic health care plan that barely passed the House this month - without her support - and the fallout continued over the weekend from her previously staunch labor supporters.
Volusia/Flagler Central Labor Council President Stacy Stepanovich sent a letter to Kosmas this weekend letting her know that Central Florida labor groups will halt all contributions to her campaign until further notice, due to the Kosmas 'no' vote.
While the labor groups' early 2010 endorsement still holds, the Central Florida, Space Coast and Volusia/Flagler AFL-CIO's all voted unanimously Thursday night to suspend check-writing, flier walks, and any other efforts for the Kosmas campaign, according to this letter to Kosmas.
.
The Progressive Change Campaign Committee came out against Kosmas last week for the same reason.
Anonymous | 10:04 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
How dare you say things that do not jive with the neo-liberals fantasy view of
Oboma world.
Bro Chuck's Rant's n Rave's | 10:05 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
Utah's (wolf) dog-catcher icon's Romney & Palin, talk out
healthcare in 2012, perhaps Sarah Palin was President, what would happen.
Sneaking out of The White House, low crawling cross the white house lawn, with
her AK-47 in her hand, and extra clips, skinning knife at her side, she heads
over to the US Senate building, in the darkness of night, to peek into the key
hole, in those big doors, to see what the Demo's are doing that night in
secret. Low and behold, Sen. Blanche Lincoln, D-Ark., waits in her seat
following a short break during a Senate Finance Committee hearing on health care
reform legislation on Capitol Hill in Washington. Her vote and that of two other
Democrats expressing serious reservations about the legislation will determine
whether it will garner the 60 needed to break an all-but-certain Republican
filibuster. She gets the scoop. Goes back to The Oval Office. With pen in hand,
waits for that "line item veto" power. To play some tick tac toe, on
that Bill, and draw pictures. Then goes on Oprah to tell why. All, while the
"LiL-Guy" suffer's, without healthcare & help.
Commodity | 10:40 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
@ Jack:
Sounds like I was precise, even with your definitions. Health care is produced by people. It can make money for those who provide it, and even those who insure it. It will certainly make money for a huge bureaucracy in governement if they complete their take over, even if they are a single payor. Have you even distantly perused the thousands of layers of red tape the health care bill passed by the house creates? Talk about skyrocketing prices...
How exactly do you propose that the governement workers administering the proposed bloated bureaucracy refrain from as you say, "getting a commercial or other advantage off of my misfortune"?
How exactly do you propose that a doctor, his nurse, and his receptionist, and his biller refrain from getting a "commercial or other advantage" off of my misfortune?
How exactly do you propose that the IRS, and other layers of government required to collect the taxes for your health care refrain from getting a "commercial or other advantage" off of my misfortune?
Your misguided direction appears to be nothing but hate and contempt for insurance companies that will result in a self inflicted situation that will be to your detriment.
Sounds like I was precise, even with your definitions. Health care is produced by people. It can make money for those who provide it, and even those who insure it. It will certainly make money for a huge bureaucracy in governement if they complete their take over, even if they are a single payor. Have you even distantly perused the thousands of layers of red tape the health care bill passed by the house creates? Talk about skyrocketing prices...
How exactly do you propose that the governement workers administering the proposed bloated bureaucracy refrain from as you say, "getting a commercial or other advantage off of my misfortune"?
How exactly do you propose that a doctor, his nurse, and his receptionist, and his biller refrain from getting a "commercial or other advantage" off of my misfortune?
How exactly do you propose that the IRS, and other layers of government required to collect the taxes for your health care refrain from getting a "commercial or other advantage" off of my misfortune?
Your misguided direction appears to be nothing but hate and contempt for insurance companies that will result in a self inflicted situation that will be to your detriment.
Cooperative | 10:44 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
@History
We currently have many examples of health cooperatives that are indeed nonprofit. They tend to run a couple of percent less expensive than the for profit companies, which is just about what the for profit companies make on the bottom line. So if you don't like for profit companies, save a couple of percent and join a cooperative.
Anonymous | 10:48 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
Socialism is not the answer
@ "Anonymous | 12:50 a.m." | 10:57 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
Anonymous | 12:50 a.m.
You make it sound so simple to just vote out the gov_beurocrats who are not running gov_healthcare the way you want... and vote IN the ones who will run healthcare the way YOU want.
Changing government healthcare is obviously very difficult.
If it were simple don't you think we would have voted out the ones how didn't seem to care that there were BILLIONS in waste and theft already in Medicare? Have you EVER seen one of these beurocrats try to CUT spending in their departments? They never do it, and any politican who promises to cut spending in his campaign is painted as wanting to kill children, etc, and can almost NEVER get elected.
Think about what you said Anonymous...
Do you REALLY think gov_healthcare is easier to change than Private_healthcare?
If I don't like my private insurance provider I can just take my money elsewhere! THAT sounds simple.
But you insist it's better and more reliable to vote... hope your guy wins... then hope he makes the changes you need... And then hope he never gets voted out?
THATS a long shot at best.
You make it sound so simple to just vote out the gov_beurocrats who are not running gov_healthcare the way you want... and vote IN the ones who will run healthcare the way YOU want.
Changing government healthcare is obviously very difficult.
If it were simple don't you think we would have voted out the ones how didn't seem to care that there were BILLIONS in waste and theft already in Medicare? Have you EVER seen one of these beurocrats try to CUT spending in their departments? They never do it, and any politican who promises to cut spending in his campaign is painted as wanting to kill children, etc, and can almost NEVER get elected.
Think about what you said Anonymous...
Do you REALLY think gov_healthcare is easier to change than Private_healthcare?
If I don't like my private insurance provider I can just take my money elsewhere! THAT sounds simple.
But you insist it's better and more reliable to vote... hope your guy wins... then hope he makes the changes you need... And then hope he never gets voted out?
THATS a long shot at best.
Lew Jeppson | 11:16 a.m. Nov. 17, 2009
"Socialism is not the answer." Well, perhaps not, but the Bush
Administration all but nationalized the nation's banks (largely out of
necessity). I'll be hanged if I can understand why Utah conservatives are
getting so excited about a public financed health care option. This is a whole
lot less socialistic than Bush and the banks.
To "Lew Jeppson | 11:16 a.m." | 1:04 p.m. Nov. 17, 2009
Lew Jeppson | 11:16 a.m.
What Conservatives said what Bush did with the banks was "good"? I didn't hear them saying that!
I think you may be putting words into their mouths that they never said.
I also think you mis-judged Conservative's concerns about the healthcare reform bill. I don't think their main concern is that someone may get gov funded healthcare (because that is obviously ALREADY happening even without the reform bill).
Their concern IS... The ever growing Federal Government, Fed's ever increasing spending, it's reach and control of our lives, our incomes, our spending, endoctrination of children in school, what medical procedures and RX are allowed, nudgeing existing insurance providers out of existence by forcing regulations that would obviously cause their costs to skyrocket and their revenue to plummet, etc.
- Assuming Conservatives like what Bush did with the banks was a mis-judgement on your part.
- Likewise your assumptions and assesment of Conservative's concerns about Gov financed healthcare are WAY off base.
What Conservatives said what Bush did with the banks was "good"? I didn't hear them saying that!
I think you may be putting words into their mouths that they never said.
I also think you mis-judged Conservative's concerns about the healthcare reform bill. I don't think their main concern is that someone may get gov funded healthcare (because that is obviously ALREADY happening even without the reform bill).
Their concern IS... The ever growing Federal Government, Fed's ever increasing spending, it's reach and control of our lives, our incomes, our spending, endoctrination of children in school, what medical procedures and RX are allowed, nudgeing existing insurance providers out of existence by forcing regulations that would obviously cause their costs to skyrocket and their revenue to plummet, etc.
- Assuming Conservatives like what Bush did with the banks was a mis-judgement on your part.
- Likewise your assumptions and assesment of Conservative's concerns about Gov financed healthcare are WAY off base.
Patient | 1:18 p.m. Nov. 17, 2009
If you want a preview of government run health care, check out the US post
office. They are cutting services and are in huge debt. Medicare services say
the bill will cost $289 B over the next 10 years and that the savings will come
through cutting Medicare by $500 B and with tax increases. As a show of
bipartisanship, liberals and conservatives will be standing in line together to
see their doctors.
Anonmyous is an idiot | 1:40 p.m. Nov. 17, 2009
RE:Anonymous
"I for one will opt to go to Costa Rica in the event life threatening surgery is required because Obamacare will certainly result in long waiting periods, and don't want to die prematurely."
Of course Costa Rica with universal health care would definitely have shorter waiting lines than America with universal health care and they would have better quality health care as well.
"Thank you radical left for destroying the world's best medial system."
Since you believe Costa Rica's health system will be better than ours if we adopt universal health care I would suggest that you move there so that you can start living under universal health care right now.
"Oh by the way congress has written into law it's members will be exempt. If it's not good enough for them why should it be good enough for everyone else?"
There is no such exemption in either the House or Senate bill.
"I for one will opt to go to Costa Rica in the event life threatening surgery is required because Obamacare will certainly result in long waiting periods, and don't want to die prematurely."
Of course Costa Rica with universal health care would definitely have shorter waiting lines than America with universal health care and they would have better quality health care as well.
"Thank you radical left for destroying the world's best medial system."
Since you believe Costa Rica's health system will be better than ours if we adopt universal health care I would suggest that you move there so that you can start living under universal health care right now.
"Oh by the way congress has written into law it's members will be exempt. If it's not good enough for them why should it be good enough for everyone else?"
There is no such exemption in either the House or Senate bill.
mike | 4:01 p.m. Nov. 17, 2009
To those who are sensitive to calling government health care socialism - sorry.
Is communism better?
Healthcare bills dead | 4:03 p.m. Nov. 17, 2009
This great theatre of the absurd playing out on the health care bill is an
exercise in futility. The country is broke. Our assets are devalued, our cash
flow is anemic with no improvement in sight. Foreign holders of the dollars and
treasuries are dumping them and moving into gold, as quietly as they can feed
them off. China and Japan are lecturing our economic novice of a President.
The Fed has printed 120% more fiat dollars in the last year, the currency is
collapsing. The stock market is bogus. We will have bigger issues than whether
you can get your prostate checked out on someone else's dime. Your doctors
isn't going to accept the government's bogus IOUs. There is no
cavalry riding to the rescue. Profligate living is coming home to roost. Hope
your debts are paid.
Entrepreneur | 4:54 p.m. Nov. 17, 2009
Capitalism flourishes because it is fueled by the overwhelming power of
individual self-interest. Unbridled capitalism, however, has long proven capable
of generating child labor, sweat shops, political corruption and more. It is a
legitimate function of representative governance for the state to redirect the
goals of business to more acceptable goals. In past decades, the profit model
for health care has been the removal of risk: Booting out those who need health
care the most. In reform, the profit goal of health care must be a reduction of
costs through keeping people healthier.
Republicans derailed reform efforts of the early 1990’s, and have had 14 years to find business-sensible alternatives. So the Heritage Foundation hates all things Obama? Not surprising. The “conservative” strategy for years has been victory through character assassination and hyperbole. Here, even the LDS Church-owned radio station, KSL, daily plays three hours of Sean Hate-ity, fomenting stereotypes, venom, and, well, anything but a better suggestion. I had hoped the Democratic wins in 2008 would cause Republicans to seek a new strategy — like coming up with better ideas.
Republicans derailed reform efforts of the early 1990’s, and have had 14 years to find business-sensible alternatives. So the Heritage Foundation hates all things Obama? Not surprising. The “conservative” strategy for years has been victory through character assassination and hyperbole. Here, even the LDS Church-owned radio station, KSL, daily plays three hours of Sean Hate-ity, fomenting stereotypes, venom, and, well, anything but a better suggestion. I had hoped the Democratic wins in 2008 would cause Republicans to seek a new strategy — like coming up with better ideas.
RE: Entrepreneur | 5:35 p.m. Nov. 17, 2009
I don't think there is one true thing said in your comment.
Any system left unchecked will become bad, that includes socialism and any ideology of the LEFT.
and there is NO hate from conservative talkers,
they are all positive and all believe in the goodness and greateness of this country and it's people,
and the seek to unite and uplift people,
IT is voices from LEFT that are HATEFUL and DEVISIVE,
that seeks for us to give up our independence our liberties and freedoms and become enslaved and controlled to government and it power and programs and be ruled by liberal elitists.
Health care is just another attempt at that.
Any system left unchecked will become bad, that includes socialism and any ideology of the LEFT.
and there is NO hate from conservative talkers,
they are all positive and all believe in the goodness and greateness of this country and it's people,
and the seek to unite and uplift people,
IT is voices from LEFT that are HATEFUL and DEVISIVE,
that seeks for us to give up our independence our liberties and freedoms and become enslaved and controlled to government and it power and programs and be ruled by liberal elitists.
Health care is just another attempt at that.
Then again | 6:19 p.m. Nov. 17, 2009
@ Entrepreneur
Unbridled socialism, however, has long proven capable of generating political prisoners and labor camps, severe political corruption and more. It is a legitimate function of the people to keep their government in check, and redirect the goals of government to more acceptable goals.
A government should not be pursuing the fulfillment of citizen health care "rights" while in complete denial and disregard for the financial "rights" of our children, and indeed the current generation's "right" to taxes that are not burdonsome.
Unbridled socialism, however, has long proven capable of generating political prisoners and labor camps, severe political corruption and more. It is a legitimate function of the people to keep their government in check, and redirect the goals of government to more acceptable goals.
A government should not be pursuing the fulfillment of citizen health care "rights" while in complete denial and disregard for the financial "rights" of our children, and indeed the current generation's "right" to taxes that are not burdonsome.
Not gonna happen | 8:27 p.m. Nov. 17, 2009
It's the G-nO-P
No change
No progress
No new ideas
No Hope
No growth
No change
No progress
No new ideas
No Hope
No growth
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At least we could vote them in or out depending on what they do in the government with our healthcare!
We cannot do that to private insurers... CEO's are exempt from being fired when they decline coverage on their clients or raise prices on healthcare so they can recieve large bonuses!