Reader comments
Readers' forum: A plea to senators
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adameve | 12:57 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
YUK!!! This is what I hear you saying...l.l "Oh please, pretty please,
can't we just stop trying to become "one nation under God?"
Take back America! | 1:11 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
When did our servants (federal government) become our masters? Answer: when the
Democrates took control of both houses of congress and the White House! What
shall we do now? Take back America! Vote these dictating bums out of office and
remind them who they work for!
Jim III | 5:24 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
Don,
For the most part a sensible letter.
But, you dropped the ball by stating that our elected representatives were our last hope.
They are not. It is the duty of the American citizen to be the only hope.
As long as American citizens keep on reelecting the same people to the same office or another higher office who ignore the will of their constituents, the problems will only get worse.
The answer is that the voters must wake up and start paying attention to what is going on.
Otherwise things will not change.
For the most part a sensible letter.
But, you dropped the ball by stating that our elected representatives were our last hope.
They are not. It is the duty of the American citizen to be the only hope.
As long as American citizens keep on reelecting the same people to the same office or another higher office who ignore the will of their constituents, the problems will only get worse.
The answer is that the voters must wake up and start paying attention to what is going on.
Otherwise things will not change.
Comments continue below
Southern States | 5:38 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
Don, I a a huge states rights guy myself, but using the southern state Democrats
as an example is really horrendous. They were for states rights because they
didn't want the federal government messing with their Jim Crow laws.
Doug G | 7:11 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
We need single payer health care.
wallofvoodoo | 7:32 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
Exactly. We have the rights as Utahns to pollute at will & let poor people
languish without health care.
Anonymous | 7:51 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
States rights is overrated. Get over it. You can control what goes on solely
within your state to a limit. Once it crosses over to another state, you have
no control. Once it infringes on Constitutional rights, a document you agreed
to, states rights should end. Was the Civil War in vain? There is nothing
sacrosanct about states rights. Get over your colonial sentimentalism.
RedShirt | 7:51 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
To "Doug G | 7:11 a.m." why do we need a single payer health care
system?
To "wallofvoodoo | 7:32 a.m." please explain what poor people are without health care. The truely poor are taken care of already, so, who is it that doesn't have health care?
To "wallofvoodoo | 7:32 a.m." please explain what poor people are without health care. The truely poor are taken care of already, so, who is it that doesn't have health care?
Ummm - | 7:51 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
The majority of Americans elected Obama on the platform of health reform. I am
sorry you are disappointed with that and don't like it, but the people have
spoken.
(As an aside - now would be a good time for you to follow the advice you are always dishing out to those who favor gay rights and same-sex marriage - the majority has spoken, deal with it.)
(As an aside - now would be a good time for you to follow the advice you are always dishing out to those who favor gay rights and same-sex marriage - the majority has spoken, deal with it.)
Geezer | 7:59 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
And while you're at it, ask them to designate Utah as a global warming-free
zone. It will do a lot of good, just as the southern states stopped racial
integration. I thank God they failed, because some of my best co-workers in my
long career were African-American.
Grover | 8:06 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
Two points here: 1. Since Senators from other States have their hands full
trying to appease the people who elect them, why would they listen to someone
who a. Can't get them elected b. Won't contribute to their election?
2. Elections are generally decided by the winner getting 52 to 55% of the vote.
Hence the person elected is already running uphill with all the folks that voted
for the other person.
Hence the purpose of this letter is to pray for divine intervention to make other States vote the way you see as correct...er, should I say "right".
Hence the purpose of this letter is to pray for divine intervention to make other States vote the way you see as correct...er, should I say "right".
Anonymous | 8:45 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
Im for single payer.
Wrex | 9:23 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
Read my lips:
Incumbents who vote against health care/insurance reform will be ousted next November.
Incumbents who vote against health care/insurance reform will be ousted next November.
@wallof voodoo | 9:32 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
The poor have medicaid, so pushing on that emotional button isn't going to
work.
To Ummm: Obama got elected because people were bored and wanted something new. Well they got it.
To Ummm: Obama got elected because people were bored and wanted something new. Well they got it.
jackhp | 9:40 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
"The truely poor are taken care of already, so, who is it that doesn't
have health care?"
How about the 46000 people who DIE every year because they lack adequate health care due to their lack of health insurance?
How about the 46000 people who DIE every year because they lack adequate health care due to their lack of health insurance?
Ultra Bob | 9:41 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
When Don says: “Recall how in the past the conservative Southern Democrats
stood up against the federal government's intervention into the rights of
the states“, it sort of sounds like Don is proposing “Civil
War”.
It is my most humble opinion that States don’t have rights, only people have rights. Of course that follows after my belief that rights only exist as given to one and another within the current society where one lives.
There are no God given rights, Constitutional rights, Natural rights or Human rights, other than those we choose to grant each other. All of these are good sources for the arguments of right, but it still comes down to the society that we live in.
One may argue that God gives life, but nothing more. Constitutional rights are simply words on a paper contract that we have with our society, and are in much dispute due to the inexactness of their meaning.
In my understanding of the world, the society that one lives in is the giver of rights. And has the ability to take away those rights.
It is my most humble opinion that States don’t have rights, only people have rights. Of course that follows after my belief that rights only exist as given to one and another within the current society where one lives.
There are no God given rights, Constitutional rights, Natural rights or Human rights, other than those we choose to grant each other. All of these are good sources for the arguments of right, but it still comes down to the society that we live in.
One may argue that God gives life, but nothing more. Constitutional rights are simply words on a paper contract that we have with our society, and are in much dispute due to the inexactness of their meaning.
In my understanding of the world, the society that one lives in is the giver of rights. And has the ability to take away those rights.
RedShirt | 9:42 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
To "Wrex | 9:23 a.m." I would say that those who voted for the health
insurance reforms will be given the boot. If it passes, and when insurance
premiums go up because of it, those who voted for it will be shown the door
quickly.
Anonymous | 9:53 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
This letter point out a problem with logic. There are reasons things happened in
our past. If horses where better than cars, there would be piles of horse waste
in our streets. If you're LDS isn't part of your story, that Mormonism
filled in what every religion befote it lacked?
Lets look at the good old days of state's rights. Conservatives want you believing it was perfection. It was stat's rights that let a governor sign a extermination order against Mormons.
Tort is a state right. Each fifty state has their own tort laws. What political party wants to use the power of our federal government to force tort reform on the states?
You have you Utah license as ID. What would be required to prove your citizenship 24/7? There would be a requirement for a national ID that by law every American would have to carry. What does this conservative idea do for states rights?
"Obama got elected because people were bored and wanted something new." He was just a better choice than reelecting those that ruined our economy. Most Americans don't reward failure.
Lets look at the good old days of state's rights. Conservatives want you believing it was perfection. It was stat's rights that let a governor sign a extermination order against Mormons.
Tort is a state right. Each fifty state has their own tort laws. What political party wants to use the power of our federal government to force tort reform on the states?
You have you Utah license as ID. What would be required to prove your citizenship 24/7? There would be a requirement for a national ID that by law every American would have to carry. What does this conservative idea do for states rights?
"Obama got elected because people were bored and wanted something new." He was just a better choice than reelecting those that ruined our economy. Most Americans don't reward failure.
jackhp | 9:56 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
RedShirt,
I dare you and your insurance cronies to continue to raise rates as you have recently. You're well on your way to running yourself out of business because the more you jack us the more support we get for single-payer, Medicare for everyone, type coverage.
I dare you and your insurance cronies to continue to raise rates as you have recently. You're well on your way to running yourself out of business because the more you jack us the more support we get for single-payer, Medicare for everyone, type coverage.
Nutcake | 9:59 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
And if they don't listen, lets do what we did 140 years ago and start a
civil war! Darn Yankees, always tellin us what to do... Slavery, Women's
rights, and now health care? Bah!
RedShirt | 10:24 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
To "jackhp | 9:40 a.m." how about the thousands that die or are
permanently disabled in countries that have socialized medicine because of a
lack of care or wait times to get into a doctor.
You say that 46,000 people dying because of a lack of care is bad, but how many more will die waiting for their rationed care? If you look at the mortality rates for people in Canada that have heart bypass surguries or cancer treatments, it is clear that if the US went to a universal care system, more people would die just waiting for care.
So, which is worse 46,000 people dying from a lack of care or 100,000 dying due to waiting for care?
You say that 46,000 people dying because of a lack of care is bad, but how many more will die waiting for their rationed care? If you look at the mortality rates for people in Canada that have heart bypass surguries or cancer treatments, it is clear that if the US went to a universal care system, more people would die just waiting for care.
So, which is worse 46,000 people dying from a lack of care or 100,000 dying due to waiting for care?
RedShirt | 10:33 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
To "jackhp | 9:56 a.m." it is an established fact that when the
government, either state or federal, add a requirement for health insurance
coverage, it adds to the cost of insurance.
What do you think will happen if insurance companies are required to accept anybody, regardless of pre-existing condition? That alone will add thousands of dollars onto the cost of insurance policies. Not because they companies want to, but because if they don't, then they will sink. The current health care plan in Congress is designed to raise the cost of health insurance to the point that people will beg for a single payer system.
Look at the graph in the report "The True Effects of Comprehensive Coverage: Examining State Health Insurance Mandates" by the Batton Rouge Area Chamber of Commerce. Between 1995 and 2007, the number of mandates on insurance companies doubled. And guess what, so did the rates. Another pice of proof that it adds to the cost can be seen from last March's attempt by the Utah legislature to mandate autism treatments. This would have added $50/year to each insurance policy. Mandates add cost. The current reform billis filled with mandates.
What do you think will happen if insurance companies are required to accept anybody, regardless of pre-existing condition? That alone will add thousands of dollars onto the cost of insurance policies. Not because they companies want to, but because if they don't, then they will sink. The current health care plan in Congress is designed to raise the cost of health insurance to the point that people will beg for a single payer system.
Look at the graph in the report "The True Effects of Comprehensive Coverage: Examining State Health Insurance Mandates" by the Batton Rouge Area Chamber of Commerce. Between 1995 and 2007, the number of mandates on insurance companies doubled. And guess what, so did the rates. Another pice of proof that it adds to the cost can be seen from last March's attempt by the Utah legislature to mandate autism treatments. This would have added $50/year to each insurance policy. Mandates add cost. The current reform billis filled with mandates.
Hatuletoh | 11:10 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
Mr. Olson must have studied history in the deep South sometime during the
1950's or 1960's. I'll bet he loves "Birth of a
Nation", too.
2 bits | 11:21 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
My only plea to my Senator would be "Please listen to us and represent us
in Washington DC"!
"Quit listening to your PARTY leaders first and representing your PARTY agenda in Washington".
Find out what WE want and fight for that in Washington.
Too many Senators give speaches that make it sound like they know what we want at election time, but when they get back in Washington DC they act like they are just there to serve the will of the Party bosses.
Throw party politics out and listen to the people who elected you!!!
"Quit listening to your PARTY leaders first and representing your PARTY agenda in Washington".
Find out what WE want and fight for that in Washington.
Too many Senators give speaches that make it sound like they know what we want at election time, but when they get back in Washington DC they act like they are just there to serve the will of the Party bosses.
Throw party politics out and listen to the people who elected you!!!
jackhp | 11:25 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
RedShirt,
You insurance lackeys are all the same. You can't just make stuff up. You have no facts at all to back up your claim that more people will die "waiting for care" than currently die due to a lack of adequate access to care.
You insurance lackeys are all the same. You can't just make stuff up. You have no facts at all to back up your claim that more people will die "waiting for care" than currently die due to a lack of adequate access to care.
Anonymous | 11:28 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
I can't speak for socialist counties, VA has provided me with a better
level of service than any of those in the private sector ever did. VA is the
only ER I know with a 20 min wait.
hey red | 11:31 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009
Why is it that other DEMOCRATIC countries NEVER get rid of their single payer
system? I mean you are always telling us how horrible those systems are but we
never hear of them switching back to a market driven system. Why is that?
Perhaps it is because they know what they have is better and when it has problems they can vote to fix them rather than just hope for the all powerful insurance lobby (ie you) will help them out.
I am for single payer.
Perhaps it is because they know what they have is better and when it has problems they can vote to fix them rather than just hope for the all powerful insurance lobby (ie you) will help them out.
I am for single payer.
Jemmy | 12:04 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009
Northern Europeans are healthier than Americans and get better health care
BECAUSE they have government mandated or government controlled health care.
That is just a fact.
Many of you like to point to the Canadian or British systems as bad examples of universal health care but nobody I've heard in the US is advocating their kinds of systems. Instead, I've heard the Obama adminstration praise the Netherlands and Switzerland as better examples.
Go ahead ... take some time and search the web for some real statistics that compare the US model to the Swiss or Dutch models. Don't give me ancedotal evidence about Heidi who had to wait six days for an appointment. The US is full of 'third world conditions' stories too.
I'm a German and have NEVER had to wait more than two days for an appointment of any kind. I can see any doctor I want including specialists. They use the latest technology and deliver better health results than their American counterparts. The only area where Germany lags the US is in death rates for women with breast cancer. US women, on average, live three weeks longer. I'll take that comparison!
Many of you like to point to the Canadian or British systems as bad examples of universal health care but nobody I've heard in the US is advocating their kinds of systems. Instead, I've heard the Obama adminstration praise the Netherlands and Switzerland as better examples.
Go ahead ... take some time and search the web for some real statistics that compare the US model to the Swiss or Dutch models. Don't give me ancedotal evidence about Heidi who had to wait six days for an appointment. The US is full of 'third world conditions' stories too.
I'm a German and have NEVER had to wait more than two days for an appointment of any kind. I can see any doctor I want including specialists. They use the latest technology and deliver better health results than their American counterparts. The only area where Germany lags the US is in death rates for women with breast cancer. US women, on average, live three weeks longer. I'll take that comparison!
RedShirt | 12:12 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009
To "jackhp | 11:25 a.m." here is some reading material that shows that
government is largely responsible for the ever increasing insurance rates:
"THE ECONOMIC EFFECTS OF STATE-MANDATED HEALTH INSURANCE BENEFITS" at the College of New Jersey, showing that 25% of uninsured are that way because of mandates.
"Fix health care? Cut taxes" at the Times Union, stating that 20% to 50% of the cost of healthcare is due directly to mandates.
"Governors oppose $40B medical-device tax" in the DN, which statest that if medical device companies are taxed more, the US will be taxing medical devices more than anybody else in the US.
"Hidden health tax rising for insured Americans" in the DN, which shows that the average insurance policy pay $1000 extra to cover medicare/medicaid shortcomings.
"Dems scramble after warning from health insurers" at the AP, explaining why the current health care bill will increase costs.
Hmmm...I guess I didn't make up anything. ALso, see my 10:33 post to see what we are in for with nationalized health insurance.
"THE ECONOMIC EFFECTS OF STATE-MANDATED HEALTH INSURANCE BENEFITS" at the College of New Jersey, showing that 25% of uninsured are that way because of mandates.
"Fix health care? Cut taxes" at the Times Union, stating that 20% to 50% of the cost of healthcare is due directly to mandates.
"Governors oppose $40B medical-device tax" in the DN, which statest that if medical device companies are taxed more, the US will be taxing medical devices more than anybody else in the US.
"Hidden health tax rising for insured Americans" in the DN, which shows that the average insurance policy pay $1000 extra to cover medicare/medicaid shortcomings.
"Dems scramble after warning from health insurers" at the AP, explaining why the current health care bill will increase costs.
Hmmm...I guess I didn't make up anything. ALso, see my 10:33 post to see what we are in for with nationalized health insurance.
TO "Wrex | 9:23 a.m." | 12:38 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009
Wrex | 9:23 a.m.
Is that a threat? That's pretty bold of you.
What if the majority of Utahns WANT our representatives to vote against THIS Healthcare Reform bill? Are you still going to single handedly throw them out?
Is that a threat? That's pretty bold of you.
What if the majority of Utahns WANT our representatives to vote against THIS Healthcare Reform bill? Are you still going to single handedly throw them out?
Oh Please | 12:46 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009
I'm old enough to remember when the "conservative Southern Democrat
Senators" tried their darnedest to kill the Civil Rights acts. Ah, those
gentlemen have always been at the forefront of protecting our rights and
freedoms, haven't they now?
My plan | 12:49 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009
When this bill passes the cost for private health insurance will necesarilly
skyrocket, but that's OK.
My plan is to get on the cheapest plan (even if it's the government option) and use it to pay for my day to day medical needs. Obviously if it had equally good coverage for catastrophic illnesses it would be just as expensive as the private insurance. Note: The Government doesn't have a magic ability to create money from nothing or to make everything they buy cheaper. So if it IS cheaper... they must be paying out less benefits somehow, or finding someone else to cover their cost overruns (just so long as it isn't ME).
Then if I ever DO get a catastrophic illness and need the BETTER coverage of the so called, "Cadillac Plan" I can just switch to the private insurance and they have to take me, pre-existing illness and all and pay all my HUGE expenses. Then when the Operation/treatment is done I can switch back to the government option (so I don't have to give too much money to that EEEVil private insurance company that just wants to make money).
My plan is to get on the cheapest plan (even if it's the government option) and use it to pay for my day to day medical needs. Obviously if it had equally good coverage for catastrophic illnesses it would be just as expensive as the private insurance. Note: The Government doesn't have a magic ability to create money from nothing or to make everything they buy cheaper. So if it IS cheaper... they must be paying out less benefits somehow, or finding someone else to cover their cost overruns (just so long as it isn't ME).
Then if I ever DO get a catastrophic illness and need the BETTER coverage of the so called, "Cadillac Plan" I can just switch to the private insurance and they have to take me, pre-existing illness and all and pay all my HUGE expenses. Then when the Operation/treatment is done I can switch back to the government option (so I don't have to give too much money to that EEEVil private insurance company that just wants to make money).
RedShirt | 12:55 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009
To "TO "Wrex | 9:23 a.m." | 12:38 p.m." yesterday in the
Trib they had a poll that showed that a majority of Utahns are against the
health care bill. They also showed that 96% of Utahns have some sort of
healthcare coverage.
The interesting thing was that they ran an editorial ripping on Matheson because he voted against the bill. So, even if you listen to the people that you represent, you are still wrong in the eyes of the liberal media.
The interesting thing was that they ran an editorial ripping on Matheson because he voted against the bill. So, even if you listen to the people that you represent, you are still wrong in the eyes of the liberal media.
to Don Olson | 1:07 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009
Your letter can go to 2 Sentors, and 2 Sentors only:
Senator Orrin Hatch
Senator Bob Bennett
Unless you'd like a grass-roots letter writing campagne to OUR senators for the folks of:
California
New York
Illinois
Florida
Vermont
Washington
Michigan
Oregon
Iowa
Pennsylvania
Maryland
Montana
North Dakota
New Jersey
Nevada
West Virgina
Delaware
New Mexico
Massachusetts
Wisconsin
Nebraska
Alaska
Arkansas
Connecticut
Minnesota
Rhode Island
Louisiana
New Hampshire
Hawaii
Indiana
South Dakota
Colorado
Missouri
Ohio
North Carolina
The beautiful of our Republic is that the citizens on one state, can't tell the Senators of another state what to do.
Beware of Karma....
Senator Orrin Hatch
Senator Bob Bennett
Unless you'd like a grass-roots letter writing campagne to OUR senators for the folks of:
California
New York
Illinois
Florida
Vermont
Washington
Michigan
Oregon
Iowa
Pennsylvania
Maryland
Montana
North Dakota
New Jersey
Nevada
West Virgina
Delaware
New Mexico
Massachusetts
Wisconsin
Nebraska
Alaska
Arkansas
Connecticut
Minnesota
Rhode Island
Louisiana
New Hampshire
Hawaii
Indiana
South Dakota
Colorado
Missouri
Ohio
North Carolina
The beautiful of our Republic is that the citizens on one state, can't tell the Senators of another state what to do.
Beware of Karma....
Abe Lincoln | 1:12 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009
to: Ultra Bob
wrong. there are god-given rights. these are the rights that we can not take from each other. by your argument, we should be able to vote tommorow on whether or not gays deserve to live. or liberals for that matter. we should be able to decide for ourselves what is you can say and what you can't say. it is that exact line of thinking that the Founding Fathers were fighting against. what we give we can take back. what god gives only he can take, that is why we had the revolution, because people started taking other people's rights which were given by god. here is what thomas jefferson said on the matter, yes, thomas jefferson, he was not the athiest people make him out to be:
"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?"
watch "obama killer song" on youtube. it rocks!
wrong. there are god-given rights. these are the rights that we can not take from each other. by your argument, we should be able to vote tommorow on whether or not gays deserve to live. or liberals for that matter. we should be able to decide for ourselves what is you can say and what you can't say. it is that exact line of thinking that the Founding Fathers were fighting against. what we give we can take back. what god gives only he can take, that is why we had the revolution, because people started taking other people's rights which were given by god. here is what thomas jefferson said on the matter, yes, thomas jefferson, he was not the athiest people make him out to be:
"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?"
watch "obama killer song" on youtube. it rocks!
to Ummm7:51 | 1:34 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009
Actually the majority of Americans voted in Obama on the platform of
'he's black'.
Don't give us this hogwash that a vote for Obama equals approval of everything he says and does. The other optin was McCain, for crying out loud.
Don't give us this hogwash that a vote for Obama equals approval of everything he says and does. The other optin was McCain, for crying out loud.
MoeMan | 1:47 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009
To Abe Lincoln: What is the name of the god you speak of? There are thousands
of gods ... or so various worshippers have claimed over the years.
Abe Lincoln | 2:35 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009
to:MoeMan
you know perfectly well, but you just won't admit it. the various religionsin colonial america worshipped the same God, the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob found in the King James Translation of the Bible. the first amendment gauranteess the freedom to worship God as you please. to those that voted for this law, this meant the God i just mentioned. you should learn your history, and then maybe we can have a disccusion.
and to: to Ummm7:51
i quite agree. any white man saying half the things he does about america would not make it the first day past the primaries.
you know perfectly well, but you just won't admit it. the various religionsin colonial america worshipped the same God, the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob found in the King James Translation of the Bible. the first amendment gauranteess the freedom to worship God as you please. to those that voted for this law, this meant the God i just mentioned. you should learn your history, and then maybe we can have a disccusion.
and to: to Ummm7:51
i quite agree. any white man saying half the things he does about america would not make it the first day past the primaries.
Kristen | 2:50 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009
Lets hope the Senate kills the VERY EXPENSIVE, AND VERY POOR nation health
insurance. The bill isn't worth the paper its printed on. Keep
government out of the health insurance business.
Ultra Bob | 4:37 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009
To Abe.
Where are the God given rights of Shaniya Davis, the 5 year old found dead? Where are the God given rights to all the other children who die in the womb or even on the battle field?
The God I knew would not be so unfair in his gifts of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
First you say: “there are god-given rights. these are the rights that we can not take from each other”,
and then you say:
“that is why we had the revolution, because people started taking other people's rights which were given by god“.
Which is it?
If the society you lived in decided to take away the lives of Gays, they could do it. Just like the Germans did the Jews in WWII.
As for your song, it is the most ungodly thing I have seen for a long time. If you are a child of God, you have fallen a long long way.
Where are the God given rights of Shaniya Davis, the 5 year old found dead? Where are the God given rights to all the other children who die in the womb or even on the battle field?
The God I knew would not be so unfair in his gifts of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
First you say: “there are god-given rights. these are the rights that we can not take from each other”,
and then you say:
“that is why we had the revolution, because people started taking other people's rights which were given by god“.
Which is it?
If the society you lived in decided to take away the lives of Gays, they could do it. Just like the Germans did the Jews in WWII.
As for your song, it is the most ungodly thing I have seen for a long time. If you are a child of God, you have fallen a long long way.
To "Ultra Bob | 4:37 p.m." | 5:04 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009
Ultra Bob | 4:37 p.m.
You need to come back when you are on your meds. You're not making any sense. Just jumping all over the place. What 5 year old? What unfair God you knew? I can't follow your point.
I think it has something to do with there must not be a God if men can take away the rights he gave us? Or something like that?
If that was the point... of course men can take life, of course they can take liberty, but that doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, nor that these weren't gifts he gave us.
Think about it rationaly.
If your Mother gave you a gift for christmas... does that mean you brother can't take it away? And if he does take it away or break it... does that then mean that your Mother doesn't exist? Or prove that SHE didn't give you the gift?
But then I'm not completely sure what your central point was. Maybe it doesn't even matter.
You need to come back when you are on your meds. You're not making any sense. Just jumping all over the place. What 5 year old? What unfair God you knew? I can't follow your point.
I think it has something to do with there must not be a God if men can take away the rights he gave us? Or something like that?
If that was the point... of course men can take life, of course they can take liberty, but that doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, nor that these weren't gifts he gave us.
Think about it rationaly.
If your Mother gave you a gift for christmas... does that mean you brother can't take it away? And if he does take it away or break it... does that then mean that your Mother doesn't exist? Or prove that SHE didn't give you the gift?
But then I'm not completely sure what your central point was. Maybe it doesn't even matter.
ASH | 11:19 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009
To Redshirt:
IT ISN"T HEALTH CARE!!!!!Why do you keep using that phrase. You are using the jargon of the liberals and it drives me crazy. Your insurance doesn't pay for Health care, it pays (if it does) for disease management and treatment!!! AARRRGGG!!!
You are talking like your insurance is going to pay you to eat right and exercise, take vitamins and drink pure water.
IT ISN"T HEALTH CARE!!!!!Why do you keep using that phrase. You are using the jargon of the liberals and it drives me crazy. Your insurance doesn't pay for Health care, it pays (if it does) for disease management and treatment!!! AARRRGGG!!!
You are talking like your insurance is going to pay you to eat right and exercise, take vitamins and drink pure water.
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