Deseret News | LDS disparity between black Africa and African-Americans

Reader comments
LDS disparity between black Africa and African-Americans

Elder | 12:44 a.m. Nov. 14, 2009

Generally, it is easier for Elders to talk to potential converts in foreign countries than in the USA. Folks overseas are interested in learing about the USA and potentially coming over to the USA for schooling or looking for economic oppprtunities are reasons that foreigners in Africa and elsewhere will talk to Elders. In the USA, folks are not interested in learning about new religions and they already view the LDS as a Utah religion with a polygamous past and lots of dietary restrictions.

2 words | 12:52 a.m. Nov. 14, 2009

Internet.

Access.

George Hill | 6:00 a.m. Nov. 14, 2009

Again,how many times can I say it-I LOVE this woman.Sister Andrews nails a good multi-faceted question.Yes,we do water down our faith for those not in the "circle".
I do have an explanation of the disparity of acceptence-one word-HUMILITY.American blacks are fed a constant diet of anger and resentment.The LDS faith is not seen as a minority-rich choice.I remember the black members in my distant childhood in NE Florida in the fifties and early sixties.Those folks were the sweetest,humblest,most Christ-centered people I have ever met.The AFRICAN blacks I have met are far more open than most US blacks to the PERSONAL relationship one can have with their Heavenly Father.

Comments continue below

Timj | 6:16 a.m. Nov. 14, 2009

Sunday is, and always has been, the most segregated day of the week in the US. Church on Sundays in my ward is 95% white, and yet probably 50% of the nonmembers inside my ward boundaries are black. An African American shows up and sees what looks like a white congregation, with a very white culture, and has a hard time feeling at home. He goes to a nearby black congregation (be it Baptist or whatever), and it's much easier for him to feel that that's where he belongs.
In most wards in Africa, a black African shows up to an LDS church, and the congregation is mostly black. So there's less of a culture-clash within a ward.

more to it than color | 7:06 a.m. Nov. 14, 2009

I once heard a black African missionary speak who was called to serve an LDS mission in the Washington DC area.

He said you would think I would have been able to relate to the blacks there, as they were the same race/color.

But he found he couldn't relate to them at all. The block that prevented it seemed to him to be that "they were so ANGRY. All the time, about everything. They couldn't see the unbelievable blessings and opportunities that were sitting right in front of them. It was like they took pleasure in their anger, and freedom from having to do or think because they would just go back to focusing on how put upon they were and how angry they were."

He lamented that he was able to effect them very little.

RG in TN | 7:14 a.m. Nov. 14, 2009

It appears that missionary zeal, the willingness to share the gospel, is an individual thing, not a racial one. Many of us, regardless of race, have the same difficulty in being open about religion.

You might also add to that cultural environment... it's not "cool" to talk of spiritual matters in some countries, including the US.

Handrew | 8:24 a.m. Nov. 14, 2009

You can't understand it? Black Africans need money. They live in dire circumstances and they convert to other religions easily due to helping hands. Follow the money. In America, blacks may have more options and may not be in such poor circumstance. In America, minorities are given a preferential status status which gives them more employment options than a black majority in Africa, where there is little industry anyway, would have. More opportunities equal less conversion...to any religion.

Re: disparity | 9:18 a.m. Nov. 14, 2009

One answer might be modern communications (internet),and access to Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie,read pp 527-528.

Check Your Facts Ma'am | 9:24 a.m. Nov. 14, 2009

That was no revelation in 1978 that allowed blacks to hold the priesthood. It was merely a proclamation. If you read the announcements made at the time, Spencer W. Kimball clearly said it was not a revelation.

MoJules | 9:54 a.m. Nov. 14, 2009

What state are you in? I live in Missouri and am in a ward that is probably 20% black. But as for converts, it is probably 85% that are black. The problem is retention, but that is for any race. There is a pattern and I only know this from hearsay, blacks like to look around at lots of religions. So some of them don't last, they come from an American tradition of being quite expressive in their churches, this stems from slavery. Back when they were slaves, this was their way of being free.

Instereo | 10:05 a.m. Nov. 14, 2009

Blacks in Africa came from a background of being free and were baptized into a church that after 1978 welcomed them and they did it with their neighbors. Blacks in America came from a background where they were probably decendents of slave who were decendents of blacks who were sold into slavery by other blacks in Africa. The Blacks in American were used, hated, feared by whites and excluded from many aspects of society which included the LDS Priesthood. When they were baptized into the church, they may have been welcomed by some but it took others awhile to open up their hearts without fear or even hate in spite of a "revelation" and they weren't with their neighbors. It was a totally new experience done usually alone. It's hard to reverse years of discrimnation/hate/fear with a revelation both in blacks and whites. The church in Africa didn't have the history it did in the United States to overcome.

hbeckett | 11:28 a.m. Nov. 14, 2009

thank you for your thoughts and feelings

jmz | 12:44 p.m. Nov. 14, 2009

I can't believe many of the crazy stereotypes I have seen commented above and both African-Americans, and Africans. The reason why some African-Americans might be "Angry" is because of ignorance and misunderstanding. I am white, and I see it as ignorance on the part of white people in general. Many Africans have not been exposed to much of the racial folklore that exists in America.

I also don't believe that African people are interested in the Church because of "upward mobility" - I have heard the same things said about Native-Americans and just about anyone who is non-Anglo -

There is much work left to be done in the Church on these things --

jmz

Re: Check Your Facts Ma'am | 12:49 p.m. Nov. 14, 2009

Maybe you should check your facts, sir.

Official Declaration 2 in the Doctrine and Covenants reads in part:

"In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church. President Kimball has asked that I advise the conference that after he had received this revelation, which came to him after extended meditation and prayer in the sacred rooms of the holy temple, he presented it to his counselors, who accepted it and approved it. It was then presented to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, who unanimously approved it, and was subsequently presented to all other General Authorities, who likewise approved it unanimously."

That official announcement clearly says it *was* a revelation.

Provo | 2:04 p.m. Nov. 14, 2009

How can we realistically expect more black converts when our leadership is 99% white.

Anonymous | 2:13 p.m. Nov. 14, 2009

If it *was* a revelation, the Lord took his own sweet time correcting this particular wrong.

John Pack Lambert | 3:17 p.m. Nov. 14, 2009

While I will agree we need to do a lot more the share the gospel with our borthers and sisters of African descent, I am not sure that Sister Andrews' comparison is quite accurate.
We had a African descended bishop in Michigan at about the same time they got such in Ghana. Of course, that is because Bishop Edwards was called in the year that the first stakes in Ghana were formed.
However, first off we must remember that there are less than 40 million people of African descent in the United States, and over 600 million in Africa. Nigeria alone has over 100 million people.
Also, being in a ward with 3 African Americans out of less than 50 people, and having another sister in the ward engaged to a man of African birth (he grew up in the US though) who served a mission but lives a few states away, at times I think that we do not see how many active Latter-day Saints of Afrian descent there are.
I have also seen members of African descent go inactive because of truly racist statements by fellow ward members. This is not realy an issue in Africa.

John Pack Lambert | 3:22 p.m. Nov. 14, 2009

To George Hill,
The only person I baptized one my mission who was ordained an elder before I went home was a man of African descent, and I served in Las Vegas. In fact, when he was baptized he was the only active member of the ward of Afrian descent. Beyound this, he was a man whose ancestors he been slaves in this country, he was also a native born Las Vegan.
A few months before he had been baptized there had been a couple where the wife was a Haitian-born lady of primarily if not completely African descent (her husband was of Euro-American descent, they were living with his parents actually) but they went back to BYU so we were without those of African descnet. We did have a Navajo brother and a Mexican family, and a family where the husband was Hawaiian in the ward, but no one of African descent until the man I started out mentioning was baptized.
The first thing we have to do to reach African-Americans is to stop accusing them of being prideful and resentful.

John Pack Lambert | 3:43 p.m. Nov. 14, 2009

Considering that two of the high priest group leaders in my stake (at least, I only know for sure who three of them are really) are of Afrian-descent, than there is more hope.
This is despite the fact that many of the people of African descent in the stake live in a branch where there is not a high priest group leader.
Of course that was much truer three years ago. Since then many areas with many people of African descent have been organized as wards and many new members of African descent have moved in to other wards or new converts of African descent have been bpatized in these wards.
It is a slow process, but the number of active members of the Church of African descent is on the rise.

anonymous | 8:27 p.m. Nov. 14, 2009

I was fortunate to have seen this program. I was amazed at the powerful testimonies the early saints in Africa. I just reinforced to me that this is a church for ALL nations, kindred, toungues and people. It is based on true principles and if there are short comings, it is because people are imperfect. We all have room to be better human beings. This program and the article that was written are powerful reminders of true courage and love.

Islander | 10:12 p.m. Nov. 14, 2009

George Hill's humility has a huge role in this issue. A person who humbled himself/herself before the Lord will look beyond race and accept Christ and his church. The Blacks in Africa humbled themselves before the Lord - whether or not they had the priesthood, they had faith that the Lord will provide a way. Due to the racial tension in America, and Black Americans are more political, contribute to the slow growth of the church in Black Americans.

Anonymous | 10:34 p.m. Nov. 14, 2009

I served a mission in NYC. Most of the people I taught were Black. I found, however, no matter how long they had lived in the U.S., most if not all the people that seemed responsive were those of African descent either from Africa or the Caribbean. However, I did meet many faithful African American Saints who were U.S. born including the Elders Quorum President.

Judy | 12:38 a.m. Nov. 15, 2009

The Blacks in Africa know true poverty and suffering,and their faith excels.

Anonymous | 8:50 a.m. Nov. 15, 2009

Internet access? That's how I learned about the LDS Church and ended up joining it. And that was after reading good and bad. The good is just more important. You can't just throw "2 words" out there and expect everyone to just agree with you.

Well, maybe I'll try: Ask. God.

all churches growing | 10:21 a.m. Nov. 15, 2009

It's not just the LDS church that is growing quickly in some parts of Africa but all religions, other christian demoninations, Muslim, etc are all on the rise there...this is not unique to LDS.

Randy B. | 2:39 p.m. Nov. 15, 2009

Provo | 2:04 p.m. Nov. 14, 2009 wrote:

"How can we realistically expect more black converts when our leadership is 99% white."

I could say the same about the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

LDS from Detroit | 3:55 p.m. Nov. 15, 2009

Black Africans are nothing like Black Americans. I've lived among both and Black Americans see the church as white, which it's not if you know anything about it. The greatest number of members are actually Hispanic (huge number of members in South America). Africans see the church as a church, not black or white, just a church that's different from the others.

Black Americans don't want to belong to a "white" church but Africans don't care. They don't have a huge collective anti-white chip on their shoulder. And about the 1978 proclamation: There have been black members of the church since the very beginning. Black men held the priesthood in the 1800s but after a certain point they no longer received it due to societal problems. God didn't just change his mind. He knew that in order for the church to survive to the present day it just had to conform. At least that's my take. No one really knows why except for God, so we'll just have to trust that.

re: all churches growing | 4:01 p.m. Nov. 15, 2009

You're absolutely right, and all churches are losing members in developed countries. I'd blame it more on misplaced priorities.

Mormon Scholar | 5:04 p.m. Nov. 15, 2009

I wonder how many Mormons would leave the Church if it were announced tomorrow that the next prophet would be black? We still have a long way to go before we can truly call ourselves Latter Day Saints.

To LDS from Detroit.. | 6:07 p.m. Nov. 15, 2009

Thanks for your racist comments, my goal as a black american is to become as tolerant and enlightened as you

hmmmm | 6:19 p.m. Nov. 15, 2009

I can remember when the proclamation came about blacks being allowed into the priesthood. The next day 2 missionaries arrived at my door and I asked them what they thought about it. A logical question.

They had not been told.

Ignorance is bless, information is power. Withholding it is... deceitful.

To: To LDS from Detroit | 9:49 a.m. Nov. 16, 2009

It wasn't racist at all. I'm a black American. My comment (perhaps worded incorrectly) was really more in line with John Pack Lambert. Black Americans worry about racism and Black Africans don't. And of course it depends on the community as well. Black Americans in the minority DO have to worry about the implications of joining a seemingly all-white church because of the history here. In Africa, they're the majority so it doesn't really matter.

Definition of Revelation | 6:22 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009

When LDS members or leaders use the word "revelation", it means precisely no more and no less than what they say it means... at any given time... that suits their purposes... and is convenient...

In general, we may safely conclude that LDS "revelation" means something like "we are making things up as we go along and have found it necessary to make up some new policy, dream, interpretation, or scripture in order to achieve our business objectives".

I hope that helps.

Star | 6:35 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009

Definition of Revelation commentary> you know little of "revelation" it is a gift of the spirit, to those worthy to recieve it. Not wether it is popular or not, fadish, or blowing with the wind. It is exacting!

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