Comments about ‘D.C. says no to church exemption from law’

I applaud the Catholic Church. I stand behind them.

the city says they don't want the Catholic Church writing their ordinances - fair enough, but without the exemptions, it will be the city dictating canon to the church

Catholic Charities in Boston adopted children to same-sex couples even before same-sex marriage until someone wrote an article exposing the practice. Additionally, they still do adoptions - just not for the state and they call it "pregnancy planning." They were also at risk of having one of their donors review how much money they were donating if Catholic Charities engaged in discrimination.

This is why government and religion should not be entangled.

This is a great example of how changing the definition of marriage threatens religious liberty. If Catholics believe traditional marriage is ordained of God, government should not require them to do something they believe is offensive to God. Those who say same-sex marriage will not be imposed on churches need to think again.

the nation. Churches will have to choose whether to continue charitable work and be forced to follow the government's political agenda or give up their doctrine.
Sadly, it is the churches who are genuinely doing a great deal of helping those in serious need who will be faced with the choice.
It will happen here.

'Catholic Charities has city contracts to provide services to about 68,000 people.'

So, Catholic charities would deny humanitarian service to over 68,000 in an effort to stop gay marriage? Even after it is law?

This is very sad.

Begs the question what else one would do to deny marriage to others.

I applaud the DC Lawmakers. I will vote for them.

Charity blackmail. Plain and simple.

If the Catholic church had valid points to make, this would not be needed.

RE:Pagan

"So, Catholic charities would deny humanitarian service to over 68,000 in an effort to stop gay marriage? Even after it is law?"

The Catholic Church isn't going to stop providing humanitarian services to people instead it's going to stop working with those who oppose their values, beliefs and who want to force them to change their religious and moral beliefs.

It won't be denying the 68,000 people assistance because they will still be able to receive those services but the Catholic Church won't work with Washington, D.C to provide those services.

Let' see the city use its own money to provide these services to people instead of D.C. taking advantage of the the Catholic Church and then telling them "if you want to work with us help people in need you will change your religious doctrine to the official religious doctrine of the city."

"Begs the question what else one would do to deny marriage to others."

It begs the question of what else you will require churches to believe to be able to partner with the government. What other doctrines will you impose as the state religion.

"Churches will have to choose whether to continue charitable work and be forced to follow the government's political agenda or give up their doctrine."

That is the real agenda of those who support same sex marriage. Force churches and individuals who don't share their religious and moral beliefs to adopt those beliefs or not be able to partner with the government or enter into heterosexual marriages without recognizing that it is not a sin to get your marriage solemnized by those who promote homosexual relationships.

"Sadly, it is the churches who are genuinely doing a great deal of helping those in serious need who will be faced with the choice."

It is a choice that gays want them to make. Either agree with the new state religious doctrine that it is not sinful to marry a person of the opposite sex under the hands or approval of priests or government officials who solemnize homosexual relationships or choose not to partner with the government to help people and choose not to get married to a person of the opposite sex.

In other words. Accept the state religion or don't get married or partner to help people.

Pagan | 2:36 p.m. Nov. 13, 2009

"Charity blackmail. Plain and simple."

Refusing to partner with someone who wants to force you to change your doctrine to the official doctrine of the city is not blackmail but it is blackmail to force a church to change its doctrine before it can partner with the city to provide charitable services to D.C. residents.

"If the Catholic church had valid points to make, this would not be needed."

If the city had valid points than the Church would not need to refuse to allow them to force the church to change its doctrine.

Phil Mendalson said "Allowing individual exemptions opens the door for anyone to discriminate based on assertions of religious principle," and "Let's not forget that during the civil rights era, many claimed separation of the races was ordained by God."

And forcing a church to change its belief to conform to the state religion is a violation of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and this is about freedom and about the rights of the Catholic Church being violated because they can't participate in the same things others can without doctrinal change.

Interesting that there are a handful of posts, whereas when the LDS church does something similar, you'd think the world was coming to an end based upon the hundreds of comments made bashing the Mormons.

Pagan, sometimes ideology causes people to ignore valid points, from both sides.

On the other side, we could say if the gays had valid points, the efforts to recognize their unions would not be needed. I'm not trying to debate gay marriage, but just illustrating that more is needed than having a valid point to have your agenda fulfilled.

Negotiation and strategy are needed even with valid points.

This is Bad | 2:35 p.m. Nov. 13, 2009

"I applaud the DC Lawmakers. I will vote for them."

You applaud D.C. lawmakers violating the rights of a church and its members to have their own doctrines and not be forced to accept the official doctrine of the city? That shows what kind of person you are and what kind of person you vote for and it is no wonder that these D.C. lawmakers are in government. There are morons like you voting for them because you don't care about the rights of anyone who doesn't agree with you.

This will force every church to accept the religious doctrine of the Church of the District of Columbia to be able to partner with the city while those churches and organizations that adhere to the official city religion will still be able to but those who refuse to change their doctrines will be told "either change your doctrine to the religion of this city or you will be treated differently than organizations who adhere to the religion of the priestesses and priests of the Holy Council of the Church of the District of Columbia."

Never, ever take government money for anything,or they control you! The church should pull completely out of D.C, and let the pigs rot.

No one is threatening the religious liberty of the Catholic Church or any other religion.

Catholic Charities voluntarily decided to get involved in state activities. Believe it or not, it is possible to do charitable work without the government giving you money to do it.

Catholic Charities can say no to the government money and still continue to do charity work.

Those who are opposed to same-sex marriage are so fond of quoting scripture, well here are two for you:

Matthew 6:21 "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
Matthew 6:24 "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

Because Catholic Charities put themselves in this position by entangling themselves with the government, they are now trying to blackmail the government into following their standards.

Government and religion should be separate precisely so that government can do its job of protecting all citizens and religion can do its job of following its beliefs.

Catholic Charities received $8.2 MILLION over 3 years. DC is not taking advantage of Catholic Charities. Catholic Charities and DC are engaged in a business deal.

Now, imagine if you went to the grocery store and the check out clerk told you that they weren't going to let you shop there any more if you went to a different store to buy a product they don't sell.

This is what Catholic Charities is doing to DC. And DC has every right to pass the legislation they want to pass and take their business elsewhere.

Separation of church and state would have prevented this from ever becoming an issue.

So, Catholic Charities wants exemptions from obeying this law. What other laws are they going to request exemptions for because they violate religious principle?

How do you feel this makes DC a religious organization? If anything, constructing their laws to reflect the teachings of the Catholic Church will make them religious - Catholic to be exact.

"This will force every church to accept the religious doctrine of the Church of the District of Columbia to be able to partner with the city..."

You know, I have a really hard time getting all worked up over the fact that religious organizations have to follow the law in order to get city contracts.