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BYU football: Hall closing in on victory milestone
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sad to see him go | 3:19 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
I am looking forward to watching Hall play a few more times. The last few games
have been great. Hopefully Nelson and Heaps can keep the cougars winning.
Congrats Max! | 3:50 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
There aren't very many college quarterbacks who have lead their team to
three 10+ win seasons and three Top 25 finishes in their three years as a
starter.
Max has been a true competitor and BYU is fortunate to be able to add his name to list of great quarterbacks who have played for the Cougars.
Congrats to Max and all of the coaches and players who have contributed to the tradition of excellence that is BYU football.
Now go out in style with four more exciting wins!
Max has been a true competitor and BYU is fortunate to be able to add his name to list of great quarterbacks who have played for the Cougars.
Congrats to Max and all of the coaches and players who have contributed to the tradition of excellence that is BYU football.
Now go out in style with four more exciting wins!
The truth | 4:40 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
Max Hall has had a great career. It was been fun to watch him play. He will go
down in history as the greatest small game quarterback in BYU history. Win the
small, and the medium, but play awful in the big ones. Hopefully, he can win
the bowl game.
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 5:34 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
Max Hall is great and I'm glad he chose BYU. He's a link in a great
legacy and that legacy will continue and build upon his contribution.
BYU Student | 5:35 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
Ehhh...
The truth is | 6:07 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
a lie
Digbads | 6:20 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
"The truth" would know about "small"
You certainly have selective memory...
Max Hall has done fantastic as a quarterback at BYU. His 4th quarter drive against Oklahoma was one of the best clutch performances I've ever seen. His 4th and 18 conversion in 2007 was certainly a gutsy play.
You were probably one of the lunks who complained that John Stockton sucked at basketball because he never won a title.
You certainly have selective memory...
Max Hall has done fantastic as a quarterback at BYU. His 4th quarter drive against Oklahoma was one of the best clutch performances I've ever seen. His 4th and 18 conversion in 2007 was certainly a gutsy play.
You were probably one of the lunks who complained that John Stockton sucked at basketball because he never won a title.
FL Coug | 6:41 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
What a shame that Min Hall will probably beat Ty Detmer's win record. Ty
was a winner - we were almost always in the game with him as QB (Texas A&M
game excepted). Min folds at the first sign of adversity. What a shame.
Max Hall | 6:47 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
is extremely over rated!!! He will never even come close to stepping on an NFL
field.
How could he not have the amount of wins he has with the schedule BYU has? Ty Detmer at least played some real teams. (and don't throw out Oklahoma because I'll throw out a weak FSU team).
How could he not have the amount of wins he has with the schedule BYU has? Ty Detmer at least played some real teams. (and don't throw out Oklahoma because I'll throw out a weak FSU team).
Maxi | 7:40 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
yeah but zero big game win.
Utah fans will be sad after Maxi leaves.
Maxi is like 2nd QB for Utah when Utah plays BYU.
cougars | 7:43 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
Max is a stud. I am very greatful as a BYU fan for what he's done for the
program. He is very gutsy and extremely competitive. He has won more football
games than anyone in the state of utah. He will go out strong with an easy win
over new mexico and victories over airforce and the utes just like he did in
2007. Get ready utes, he's going to pick your corners apart and rock your
world!
Adfan | 8:11 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
I like Max... not perfect, but a hard core competitor, which is all you can ask
from a guy. And there is no player at BYU now that could do a better job.
Period. So if you're a BYU fan, get behind and cheer for Max.
Also looking forward to Utah-TCU game. Go Cougs! Go Utes!
Also looking forward to Utah-TCU game. Go Cougs! Go Utes!
Critics | 8:27 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
Why so many critics? What's your QB rating? What's that you say, never
took a snap in a college uniform? Well, so much for your opinions!
Re: The truth | 8:47 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
Uh, Max Hall has already won a bowl game. A close one, too.
Conference championship? Been there, done that.
Consecutive 10-win seasons? Yup.
Upset a nationally-ranked foe on national TV? Yes.
Beaten TCU? Yes.
Beaten the Utes? Yes, and soon to be yes again.
And for you less-informed "Cougar Fans" who seem to think Ty Detmer was Superman, check out the score of the December 1, 1990 Hawai'i game (59-28).
Or the score of the October 28, 1989 Hawai'i game (56-14).
Or the score of the September 21, 1991 Penn State game (33-7).
Or the score of the September 29, 1990 Oregon game (32-16).
In an interesting parallel, in Ty Detmer's junior year he led to the Cougars to a nationally-televised early-season victory over a big-name team. But he played poorly in his last two games and the Cougars finished...10-3. Sound familiar?
Like Max Hall, at the start of his senior year Ty Detmer led the Cougars against a top-ranked team in a nationally-televised opening season game.
But unlike this year, BYU got spanked 44-28. By Florida State.
Sound familiar?
Conference championship? Been there, done that.
Consecutive 10-win seasons? Yup.
Upset a nationally-ranked foe on national TV? Yes.
Beaten TCU? Yes.
Beaten the Utes? Yes, and soon to be yes again.
And for you less-informed "Cougar Fans" who seem to think Ty Detmer was Superman, check out the score of the December 1, 1990 Hawai'i game (59-28).
Or the score of the October 28, 1989 Hawai'i game (56-14).
Or the score of the September 21, 1991 Penn State game (33-7).
Or the score of the September 29, 1990 Oregon game (32-16).
In an interesting parallel, in Ty Detmer's junior year he led to the Cougars to a nationally-televised early-season victory over a big-name team. But he played poorly in his last two games and the Cougars finished...10-3. Sound familiar?
Like Max Hall, at the start of his senior year Ty Detmer led the Cougars against a top-ranked team in a nationally-televised opening season game.
But unlike this year, BYU got spanked 44-28. By Florida State.
Sound familiar?
Hey Maxi: | 8:49 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
"zero big game win."
Max has played the Utes twice, not once.
You seem to forget the "big game" two years ago when Max sliced the Utah secondary apart and made them look foolish. Does "4th and 18" ring a bell?
Max has played the Utes twice, not once.
You seem to forget the "big game" two years ago when Max sliced the Utah secondary apart and made them look foolish. Does "4th and 18" ring a bell?
Sandyclaws | 8:52 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
Hey Maxi: "zero big game win."
Max has played the Utes twice, not just once. In the game two years ago he sliced the Utah secondary apart and made them look foolish. Does "4th and 18" ring a bell?
Max has played the Utes twice, not just once. In the game two years ago he sliced the Utah secondary apart and made them look foolish. Does "4th and 18" ring a bell?
Get a life BASHERS! | 9:00 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
You people who want to bash on Hall Seriously need to get a life. You need to
get off your couches and realize your pathetic comments have no leg to stand on.
Max Hall... | 9:46 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
People dont give him enough credit, he will likely end his career with the most
wins as a byu starting QB. As for not winning big games...He lead byu to wins
over tcu, utah, oklahoma and has a bowl victory under his belt with two big
games remaining against utah and the bowl game. As for the losses in big games,
how many of those can you put the entire blame on him? I can only think of one
where I could really blame the loss on Hall. That being the utah game of course
from last year. Teams around the nation would love to have a qb that leads their
team to 10 plus win seasons and top 25 finishes, thats not easy to do. When its
all said and done, Max will be considered among the greats of qbs at byu. If he
is not something is seriously wrong. Ty Detmer is amoung the greats and as good
as he was, he still threw alot of Ints and was a member of teams that had some
ugly losses. But he too, like Hall lead BYU to alot of wins and had some big
wins along the way
Areyouserious: | 12:34 a.m. Nov. 13, 2009
You can't compare Hall with the other great QBs. With the other great QBs
you could expect to win big games, but with Max Hall you just have to wish it
isn't going to be another blowout against us. With the other QBs you could
expect the offense come from behind even trailing by 24 points and still win
those games, with Hall, if we are trailing by 10 or 14, we are done, and he
becomes erratic and desperate, and to make matters worst the coaching staff
keeps playing him like hoping he is going to do something to reverse the
scoreboard. Certainly he got his chances but failed. As far as I know, most fans
are going to remember him as the QB who couldn't compite against quality
teams.
Back in the day | 7:23 a.m. Nov. 13, 2009
BYU has always seemed to have a bend-don't-break defensive phhilosopy in
most seasons/games(possible exception of 1996). However, they often made
adjustments and took risks defensively when they were down which helped put the
ball back in the hands of the offense so our QB's could create their legacy
of coming from behind, etc.
BYU's defenses as of late frustrates the heck out of me because some games they are formidable, but many games they are only bend-bend-bend as long as you don't give up the big play (i.e. let them score as long as it takes them at least 6 plays to do so). If the defense never comes up with a stop once the team is behind what could Max or any offensive player do about it at that point?
I'm not trying to absolve Max of some of the legitimate concerns expressed but everyone has to remember that judging the current vs the past before their body of work is done will always be either to high or to low based on current excitement or disappointment. Time will tell on Max and stats/records can help.
BYU's defenses as of late frustrates the heck out of me because some games they are formidable, but many games they are only bend-bend-bend as long as you don't give up the big play (i.e. let them score as long as it takes them at least 6 plays to do so). If the defense never comes up with a stop once the team is behind what could Max or any offensive player do about it at that point?
I'm not trying to absolve Max of some of the legitimate concerns expressed but everyone has to remember that judging the current vs the past before their body of work is done will always be either to high or to low based on current excitement or disappointment. Time will tell on Max and stats/records can help.
Re: Areyouserious | 8:00 a.m. Nov. 13, 2009
You need to figure it out dude. Check into any college football book or website
and see the final rankings of teams that the "other" great QBs played.
All BYU fans think that the past teams beat everyone and competed with everyone
every week. Where did Pitt finish the season ranked in 1984 after BYU beat them
on the road when they were ranked #3? Where did Miami finish in 1990 after being
beat as #1? The fact is that the game has evolved and changed dramatically since
the other QBs played in Provo and Max has played more teams that FINISHED the
season ranked than any other QB at BYU. If he finishes with more wins than Ty,
it is a great accomplishment. There is no way to question that, and if BYU fans
do, maybe they should start to jump on the bandwagon of other teams in the
state.
Football is a team game anyway, so BYU fans shouldn't blame all of his poor performances and losses only him. Pull your heads out and realize that Max didn't give up the big plays on defense or miss tackles or drop passes/fumbles, etc...
Football is a team game anyway, so BYU fans shouldn't blame all of his poor performances and losses only him. Pull your heads out and realize that Max didn't give up the big plays on defense or miss tackles or drop passes/fumbles, etc...
I don't think so... | 8:50 a.m. Nov. 13, 2009
"Can't win he big one" will trail him forever and rightly so.
Doesn't have the moxie or courage of many of the greats of the past.
Can't put his guy in the same category. He can win out the year and
he'll still remain in the good but not great category. Too bad we will
have to listen to his name when the stats guys run out of real stories to talk
about.
And to you Mr. RUSerious: Max decides when and where to throw the ball or run with it. Were it not for some serious talent at tight end and receiver making absolutely fabulous catches, many, many more of his upchucks would have gone into the turf or the enemy's hands.
And to you Mr. RUSerious: Max decides when and where to throw the ball or run with it. Were it not for some serious talent at tight end and receiver making absolutely fabulous catches, many, many more of his upchucks would have gone into the turf or the enemy's hands.
Eddo | 9:41 a.m. Nov. 13, 2009
Yeah no doubt about it. Ah...what you said
Cougarf@n | 9:47 a.m. Nov. 13, 2009
Max is a great quarterback. While he may not become a BYU legend like Detmer,
Young and McMahon, he's definitely a great quarterback whose body of work
will compare nicely with Beck, Sarkisian and the pre-McMahon greats like Sheide
and Nielson.
It's completely appropriate that he surpasses Detmers record as he's played well for three straight years. BYU as a team is very similar to Detmer's heisman year where the season began with a great win over #1 Miami followed by a blowout loss to Oregon, Hawaii and the Bowl game. This season BYU had a marquee win over Oklahoma, followed by blowout losses to FSU and TCU. Max Hall is 1-1 in games against ranked opponents this year which matches Detmer's output and if BYU beats a ranked Utah squad this year then he'll be 2-1. It's sad that some fans don't appreciate what we have.
It's completely appropriate that he surpasses Detmers record as he's played well for three straight years. BYU as a team is very similar to Detmer's heisman year where the season began with a great win over #1 Miami followed by a blowout loss to Oregon, Hawaii and the Bowl game. This season BYU had a marquee win over Oklahoma, followed by blowout losses to FSU and TCU. Max Hall is 1-1 in games against ranked opponents this year which matches Detmer's output and if BYU beats a ranked Utah squad this year then he'll be 2-1. It's sad that some fans don't appreciate what we have.
November 28th beatdown | 10:00 a.m. Nov. 13, 2009
After their November 28th beatdown by Max and the Cougars, the little ewes will
be happy to see Max turn the reins of the BYU QB legacy over to the next great
BYU QB, in a long line of greats!
matt | 10:47 a.m. Nov. 13, 2009
what is the Hall-Detmer comparison for losses? Number of games played? I'd
be interested to see that. This article only mentioned victories.
In my mind, Hall is decent, but doesn't compare to Detmer as far as his "football sense" or the ability to win big games, as has been mentioned before
In my mind, Hall is decent, but doesn't compare to Detmer as far as his "football sense" or the ability to win big games, as has been mentioned before
Anonymous | 12:17 p.m. Nov. 13, 2009
Hall is a freekin stud. I should know, I too, am a stud. At any rate, he has
surpassed several passing records, will have won more games than any qb in byu
HISTORY against a much more competitive league than Detmer's WAC, has
beaten UCLA, Washington, Oregon, TCU, Utah, Oklahoma, has three 10 win seasons,
something Detmer never did.
The UofU hasn't had a QB WITH THOSE NUMBERS ever.
The UofU hasn't had a QB WITH THOSE NUMBERS ever.
One win needed | 12:19 p.m. Nov. 13, 2009
to tie Detmer. He needs to do it this week! If not, his chances might get
intercepted by AF, Utah or some 6-6 Wac team!!
Detmer/Hall Stats | 12:32 p.m. Nov. 13, 2009
Ty:
1988 = 1-0 ???
1989 = 10-3 (L=WashSt, HI, PennSt[bg])
1990 = 10-3 (L=OR, HI, TXA&M[bg])
1991 = 8-3-2 (L=FSU, UCLA, PennSt, T-Iowa[bg])
Total= 29-9-2 (72% 29/40 ties are counted in the denominator but not in the numerator for wins)
Must have at least one start in 1988 to get the 29 wins but not sure how many he actually started that year. If he started and lost others then the win % goes down.
Max:
2007 = 11-2 (L=UCLA, Tulsa; W=UCLA[bg])
2008 = 10-3 (L=TCU, Utah, AZ[bg])
2009 = 7-2 (so far) (L=FSU, TCU)
Total= 28-7 (80%)
(4 remaining; 3 reg/1 bowl)
Best possible 32-7 (82%)
Worst possible 28-11 (72%)
Rnk Name Years Att Cmp. Pct. Yds Int TD
1 Detmer, Ty 1988-91 1,530 958 63% 15,031 65 121
2 Beck, John 2003-06 1,418 885 62% 11,021 34 79
3 Hall, Max* 2007- 1,242 818 66% 10,348 37 82
From the stats it is apparent that both are very good. Not sure many Ute QB's come close to either :-)
1988 = 1-0 ???
1989 = 10-3 (L=WashSt, HI, PennSt[bg])
1990 = 10-3 (L=OR, HI, TXA&M[bg])
1991 = 8-3-2 (L=FSU, UCLA, PennSt, T-Iowa[bg])
Total= 29-9-2 (72% 29/40 ties are counted in the denominator but not in the numerator for wins)
Must have at least one start in 1988 to get the 29 wins but not sure how many he actually started that year. If he started and lost others then the win % goes down.
Max:
2007 = 11-2 (L=UCLA, Tulsa; W=UCLA[bg])
2008 = 10-3 (L=TCU, Utah, AZ[bg])
2009 = 7-2 (so far) (L=FSU, TCU)
Total= 28-7 (80%)
(4 remaining; 3 reg/1 bowl)
Best possible 32-7 (82%)
Worst possible 28-11 (72%)
Rnk Name Years Att Cmp. Pct. Yds Int TD
1 Detmer, Ty 1988-91 1,530 958 63% 15,031 65 121
2 Beck, John 2003-06 1,418 885 62% 11,021 34 79
3 Hall, Max* 2007- 1,242 818 66% 10,348 37 82
From the stats it is apparent that both are very good. Not sure many Ute QB's come close to either :-)
Anonymous | 1:14 p.m. Nov. 13, 2009
Ty Max
W-L-T W-L Opponents
3-0-0 2-0 Air Force*
3-0-0 3-0 Colorado St.
3-0-0 2-0 New Mexico*
2-0-1 3-0 San Diego St.
3-0-0 1-1 Utah*
3-0-0 2-0 Utah St.
3-0-0 3-0 Wyoming
0-1-0 0-1 Florida St.
0-1-0 2-1 UCLA
* denotes 1 game remaining for Max
Ty:
W-L-T Opponent
1-2-0 Hawaii
0-0-1 Iowa
1-0-0 Miami
1-0-0 Navy
1-1-0 Oregon
0-2-0 Penn St.
0-1-0 Texas A&M
3-0-0 UTEP
1-1-0 Washington St.
Max:
W-L Opponent
1-1 Arizona
1-0 Eastern Washington
1-0 Northern Iowa
1-0 Oklahom
1-2 TCU
1-0 Tulane
0-1 Tulsa
3-0 UNLV
1-0 Washington
Bowl games as starters:
Ty=0-2-1
Max=1-1
Although Ty is credit with bringing the team from behind in the Freedom Bowl for a W in '88 after Covey floundered.
W-L-T W-L Opponents
3-0-0 2-0 Air Force*
3-0-0 3-0 Colorado St.
3-0-0 2-0 New Mexico*
2-0-1 3-0 San Diego St.
3-0-0 1-1 Utah*
3-0-0 2-0 Utah St.
3-0-0 3-0 Wyoming
0-1-0 0-1 Florida St.
0-1-0 2-1 UCLA
* denotes 1 game remaining for Max
Ty:
W-L-T Opponent
1-2-0 Hawaii
0-0-1 Iowa
1-0-0 Miami
1-0-0 Navy
1-1-0 Oregon
0-2-0 Penn St.
0-1-0 Texas A&M
3-0-0 UTEP
1-1-0 Washington St.
Max:
W-L Opponent
1-1 Arizona
1-0 Eastern Washington
1-0 Northern Iowa
1-0 Oklahom
1-2 TCU
1-0 Tulane
0-1 Tulsa
3-0 UNLV
1-0 Washington
Bowl games as starters:
Ty=0-2-1
Max=1-1
Although Ty is credit with bringing the team from behind in the Freedom Bowl for a W in '88 after Covey floundered.
Ben White | 1:28 p.m. Nov. 13, 2009
Im a ute fan, but max hall has been a great quarterback. I obviously remember
the 2007 game. He has had struggles, but his defenses have been lacking often,
so I cant put all the blame on him. I am convinced taht if Max Hall was the
utes quarterback, we would be unbeaten and on the verge of another BCS game.
Good luck to max in the game this year, and here is to another successful season
for both teams.
more stats | 1:29 p.m. Nov. 13, 2009
Ty:
Yr Rcrd. Conf. Conf/Place AP Bowl Result
1991 8-3-2 7-0-1 WAC/1st 23 Holiday T 13-13
1990 10-3 7-1-0 WAC/1st 22 Holiday L 14-65
1989 10-3 7-1-0 WAC/1st 22 Holiday L 39-50
Max:
Yr Rcrd. Conf. Conf/Place AP Bowl Result
2009 7-2 4-1 MWC/
2008 10-3 6-2 MWC/3rd 25 Las Vegas L 31-21
2007 11-2 8-0 MWC/1st 14 Las Vegas W 17-16
Today's MWC is much tougher than the WAC of the 80's or even the WAC of today. It typically was then and is today a 1 team conference year-in-year-out with occaisional teams stepping up to challenge.
Name me a time in the old/current WAC where more than 2 teams were ranked during a season let alone more than 2 at the same time. If memory serves me correctly a couple years ago BYU, UoU, TCU & AF hit the top 25 at some point during the same season (not all at the same time). MWC is by far tougher than old/current WAC.
Yr Rcrd. Conf. Conf/Place AP Bowl Result
1991 8-3-2 7-0-1 WAC/1st 23 Holiday T 13-13
1990 10-3 7-1-0 WAC/1st 22 Holiday L 14-65
1989 10-3 7-1-0 WAC/1st 22 Holiday L 39-50
Max:
Yr Rcrd. Conf. Conf/Place AP Bowl Result
2009 7-2 4-1 MWC/
2008 10-3 6-2 MWC/3rd 25 Las Vegas L 31-21
2007 11-2 8-0 MWC/1st 14 Las Vegas W 17-16
Today's MWC is much tougher than the WAC of the 80's or even the WAC of today. It typically was then and is today a 1 team conference year-in-year-out with occaisional teams stepping up to challenge.
Name me a time in the old/current WAC where more than 2 teams were ranked during a season let alone more than 2 at the same time. If memory serves me correctly a couple years ago BYU, UoU, TCU & AF hit the top 25 at some point during the same season (not all at the same time). MWC is by far tougher than old/current WAC.
well said | 3:15 p.m. Nov. 13, 2009
some of you sound like you've lost sense of the real facts and some of you
have a great sense of history.
Max has won and lost big games. What about Arizona, UCLA, Utah? How quickly we forget.
All great BYU QBs lost and won big games. I love Detmer, but he lost some very big games his last year.
Peruse the list of win-loss for all of the other great QBs too and you will realize that Max is in good company. For example, Bosco and teammates went undefeated in 1984, but lost 3 big games the next year to UCLA, UTEP, and Ohio St. in the bowl game.
You Max haters need to knock it off. He is a fine young man that his given his best to represent you and he has performed well. In fact, other than the 2008 Utah game, he has performed well in the other losses. Not perfect, but not bad either.
Max has won and lost big games. What about Arizona, UCLA, Utah? How quickly we forget.
All great BYU QBs lost and won big games. I love Detmer, but he lost some very big games his last year.
Peruse the list of win-loss for all of the other great QBs too and you will realize that Max is in good company. For example, Bosco and teammates went undefeated in 1984, but lost 3 big games the next year to UCLA, UTEP, and Ohio St. in the bowl game.
You Max haters need to knock it off. He is a fine young man that his given his best to represent you and he has performed well. In fact, other than the 2008 Utah game, he has performed well in the other losses. Not perfect, but not bad either.
3rd Tyrant | 4:31 p.m. Nov. 13, 2009
No number of victories can eclipse some of the galling losses, whether you like
Max Hall or not. He simply has not always pulled the game out when he needed
to. This will be even worse if he doesn't pull off a victory over the
despised Utes. Max melts like a puddle sometimes and it is hard to watch.
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