Deseret News | New charges added in fraud case

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New charges added in fraud case

Only 36? | 3:32 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Really? Koerber's only 36? Wow.

Scamming IS hard on a person.

Anonymous | 3:44 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

This man is NOT innocent! I have relatives there who took seconds on their houses to fund this crook. Old people who had to file bankruptcy, young couples with babies where the mother had to go to work and the father had to take a second job, widows, others who were greatly damaged by this man's schemes. He and his lawyers have a lot of gall to proclaim that he is innocent. They should be gathering all the money together that they can to pay these victims back if they care about moral decency.

Anonymous | 3:51 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

This man is horrible...feeling no guilt for the pain that he has inflicted.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 4:08 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

He has sold his soul for others money.

No Way! | 4:27 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

You mean someone offering an astronomically high return on unregistered securities supposedly backed by real estate was really just a ponzi scheme? I'm shocked. I thought for sure legitimate companies pass out guaranteed 120% annual returns on investments all the time.

My friend was approached about six times to put money into this thing by the scheme's own unsuspecting victims. When he told his neighbors or friends he thought it was shady they got all offended. One even said, "do you really think I would recommend someone who is dishonest, don't you trust me?" That neighbor lost over $100K in this thing. It's sad when otherwise good people are blinded by greed. Everyone thinks that they're the exception to the rules of sound investing and wealth accrual.

It's nice that this Koerber joker will probably go to jail for a long time, but it's hard for me to really villify him when there were so many willing targets just begging to be taken advantage of.

Give Him The Rights He Has | 4:35 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Folks, there is so much finger pointing that it's so weird that none of you actually believe in the rights that a man is INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty.

So, let him have the rights that is part of the constitution that runs the legal system here in the U.S.

Is that hard to understand?

Or perhaps you just prefer to glorify yourselves by your perfect finger pointing and rejoicing when you see others fall.

@give him the rights | 4:43 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

I have no sympathy for the person who impoverished many people and has no remorse. Let him have his trial, but don't believe that he is innocent.

40 year investor | 4:43 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

When I was a young boy, my father emphasized one guiding principle, "Never invest in a hot deal, because you will probably get burned." I am now in my mid fifties and comfortably retired thanks to my father's sage advice.

Anonymous | 4:46 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Yeah, and I wonder how much he has stashed away off shore. With him making his gold coins...etc. If the lawyers get him off, he and they will be sitting pretty with no plans to return the money to those he defrauded.

$100,000,000....... | 4:46 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

in exchange for 20 years. Hmmmmmm, $5,000,000 per year? Where can I sign up. I guess you don't have to be athletic to be a crook. Banks do this stuff all the time, fail and then receive our money to bail them out.

But seriously, the lowest of the low (attorneys) have no problem representing this guy. I guess the all mighty dollar trumps all.

No | 4:52 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

I don't want to see anyone fall, I would never rejoice in that, but those who harm others need to be held accountable for what they do to others. Just because those who were taken in were perhaps gullible and greedy, it doesn't take away the seriousness of what this man did. Family relationships and faith were severely strained on many levels.

His neighbor | 4:53 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Those of us who lived near Rick could easily see that he was scamming people. He paraded around at public meetings and tried to take them over, and he clearly lacked any substance. I feel sorry for those who were swindled and even brainwashed, including some who are sticking up for him in these comments. We even knew that he tried to structure things so that his immediate lieutenants would get convicted instead of himself.

His advice to all of us idiots to "turn our brains on" should have applied to him.

Hey Koerber | 4:55 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

"Got your brain on?"
I listened to this clown for years on the radio as he called us idiots for not following his lead in "milling our assets" -- which was just another way of magically turning a debt into an asset. He called his magic trick "capitalism," when actually it was out and out fraud. If this guy can even read a balance sheet, I'll eat my accounting diploma.

Anonymous | 5:07 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

I lost $30,000. Rick's younger brother, took me in a board room at their old facility in Provo (East Bay) and took my money.

Three points | 5:35 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

(1) The reference of Koerber's attorney to the supposedly harsh "independent government audit" of the Utah Securities Division investigation into Koerber is bogus. Koerber has been talking about this "audit" for YEARS now. He is banking on the fact that no one actually reads it. EVERY government audit has some "findings" (the government auditors must find something to justify their existence), and the findings in this particular audit report about "policies and procedures" are EXTREMELY MILD and are mostly about OTHER cases (not Koerber)! This audit is, and always has been, a smoke screen, brought to us by Koerber's "friend" Rep. Carl Wimmer.

(2) To those more outraged at Koerber's greedy, stupid victims. Yes, the people who believed Koerbers 5%-per-month promises were greedy idiots, but that does not excuse Koerber. A woman who dresses in sexy clothes does not ask to be attacked. Koerber's useful idiots were not asking him to make Ponzi payments with their money.

(3) To those "guilty until PROVEN innocent" comments: Would you give him you money tomorrow to invest simply because he is not yet PROVEN innocent? Public opinion is not a courtroom. The facts are clear.

Give it back! | 5:42 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

By my count in 2006 alone Rick Koerber and his companies donated more than $80,000 to Republican legislative candidates, the Republican Party, and Parents for Choice in Education. Reporters need to publish list of all the companies he set up. Here is what I think I have found on campaign finance disclosures in 2006: Five Pillars, Founders Capital, Franklin Squires Investments, Hill Erickson, McGuire Group, New Castle Holdings, Capital Enterprises, TSS Investments, Construction by Design Corp, Claud R Koerber, Rick Koerber. There may be so many more.

CommonSense | 5:44 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Anytime some knucklehead bears his "testimony" of the truthfulness or "sacred nature" of any investment, it's a complete scam. Always has been, always will be.
Dope dealers do not get the kind of return on THEIR investments that Koerber and the other equity miners like to claim.
Anyone stupid enough to "invest" with these guys is as dishonest as they are, greed plays a HUGE role in the manner in which people "invest". You play with "fire" you get burned, deal with it folks.
I'm sure that Koerber will be paroled and turn to politics as his new career, he's nothing less than a prostitute, so he's well qualified to be a politician.

Well, well, well, | 5:50 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

did Rick Koerber's business fail? Yes it did. Did a lot of people lose money? Yes they did. Are we sure Koerber "scammed" those people? Well some of you sure seem to know it for certain. But I wonder how much blame can be passed around to people like the investors themselves, the state securities people passing out false information, the collapse of the real estate markets, and various other individuals and entities. Is Koerber at fault? Yes he is - no question about it. But was his business a scam? Having no personal knowledge of his business I can't say for sure. What I do know is that some of the things he is accused of are the same things that some of the "too big to fail" financial institutions were "bailed out" of. There are millions of us who were "scammed" in that deal.

Why isn't Franklin Raines or Johnson or Frank or Dodd under indictment? Their scam is 1,000 times larger than Koerber's.

Ahhh! the clock of legitimacy - If you are going to steal get yourself elected and then you can "steal by proxy" with immunity.

Koerber = innocent until PROVEN guilty!

Anonymous | 5:50 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Why isn't this guy in an orange jumpsuit?

Three points | 5:52 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Typo: should read...
(3) To those "innocent until PROVEN guilty" comments: Would you give him you money tomorrow to invest simply because he is not yet PROVEN guilty? Public opinion is not a courtroom. The facts are clear.

Anonymous | 6:03 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

These were really sophisticated ponzi schemes with a book on a new way of thinking about money and a movie on thinking positively about wealth. I was shocked with the pressure exerted to take seconds out on my house and vehicles and hand it over to them with the promise that they would send me back a bit of my own money every month plus an unbelievable amount of interest. I could see a mile off what a scam it was...but it isn't easy to offend your so called friends and relatives...and they do hold it against you if you say no thanks.

The facts are clear? | 6:18 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

No way are "the facts clear" we, the public, only have one side of the story and that side is at least partly driven by the need to retaliate for some opinions Koerber very publicly expressed on the radio.

Koerber may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but I wonder if anyone could be stupid enough to say some of the things he said about government officials while at the same time pulling off a ponzi scheme? Did he think his public persona gave him some type of cover? Was he so egotistical he thought he could get out of any trouble? Did he not know that by saying what he said he made himself a target?

Is anyone really that stupid or was Koerber sure what he was doing was legit? I have heard he hired a securities attorney (from the state securities department) to review his operations and provide legal opinions. If this attorney had access to the ins and outs of the operation it does not sound like Koerber was trying to "pull something."

I know others whom I believe were "railroaded." Will Koerber be another?

Anonymous | 6:32 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

That is my borrowed money...they would give me back a bit of my borrowed money.

re: re: the facts are clear? | 6:37 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Are you kidding me? This must be his wife or lawyer posting. or his mother.

Capital | 6:53 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

What scares me is the chilling effect this type of scam has on capital formation and the over reaction regulators seem to have every time someone loses money.

No matter how good a deal seems to be "good deals" do not always work out and money is lost. Failure does not always mean the business man was a crook.

Capital formation is the engine that drives business worldwide. Utah is no exception to that rule.

Small business is where jobs are created. Without an effective means of capital formation innovation ceases, companies are not started, economies do not grow and jobs are not created.

If "scams" like Koerbers cause an over-reaction more regulation will follow.

It is now very hard for small business to raise needed capital (assets available for use in the production of further assets). Making it any harder to raise capital in Utah could stop business formation in its tracks.

Maybe my children and grand-children can all get government jobs?

"We can live off of each others taxes." That defines the ultimate Ponzi.

re: re: the facts are clear? | 6:57 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

NO - but you must be one of the greedy "investors" who lost money.

This crook is guilty | 7:32 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

There are many more publicly known details of this case than are in this article. This dude is guilty as sin. If you do not know this you are simply ignorant of the ins-and-outs of this operation (I mean Ponzi scheme). No, he has not been proven guilty in a court of law yet, but that is only because the trial is yet to come. But it will.

"Wake up...." | 7:47 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

What a goofy state of affairs prevails with respect to someone like Mr. Koerber.

Whether or not he is guilty of a crime is almost beside the point. He is certainly guilty of enormously bad judgment, exercised in such as way as to facilitate debilitating harm to hundreds of others.

Worse, still, in a way, is the gullibility of "investors" in such schemes as his. When "Wake up and turn your brain on" pasted on billboards along the freeway bring in large numbers of people looking for a 60% annual return on cash investment folks have become alarmingly stupid, unbelievably greedy, or both.

How could $100,000,000 possibly have been "invested" against this backdrop?

Wow--"goofy" doesn't start to cover it!

re: re: re: the facts are clear? | 9:58 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

I was one of the lucky ones who said NO, NO, and NO sir to this scam.

wondering | 10:16 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

On several occasions I met with Rick, his wife, some of his business associates for various possible business ventures. I'd rather not make a judgment, I'm glad that isn't my responsibility. I'd like to state, however,the actions now taking place cause me to wonder if the impressions I had to back away from those people, a few years ago, were for this very reason.

Ken Jennings | 3:44 a.m. Nov. 12, 2009

First, don't blame the lawyers (yet). Our legal system is predicated on getting to the truth by a robust presentation by opposing sides. Travesties of justice occur but not as often as under other legal systems. Second, while the victims' greed may have helped them rationalize that the deal was legitimate, which of us has not met a really convincing slick operator in our lives. Finally, while he is innocent until proven guilty in court, I'm NOT on the jury. I have read the evidence that has come to light and I'm entitled to my opinion which is . . . . . . nobody's business.

curious | 4:42 a.m. Nov. 12, 2009

I was involved with Rick's program for a few months. When I realized this type of thing was not for me, I asked for a refund. Rick sent me an e-mail confirming that my request would be processed. It was... I don't know why I was one of the lucky ones...

JMT | 6:20 a.m. Nov. 12, 2009

I find the comments far more insightful than the actual story. Though I take them with a grain of salt.

What if I told you I had a sure fire investment program that would turn a 10-12% profit year after year. Would you take it? Of course you would.

It was called the Housing bubble.

The good news is when we see one person do it we can spot the crime a mile away. At least after the fact. When currency policy and politians do the exact same thing with the economy, we remain clueless.

Koerber did the same thing as what Dodd and others did, to include Bush. We have an entire political struture that participated in the Federal Reserve dropping interest rates to 1%, all in the name of a strong economy. It blew the housing market up like a massive balloon, that when popped trillions of dollars have been lost. One estimate is that America has lost a total of $13 trillion (TRILLION) since it burst.

The political and central banking crowd have done a Koerber. We want to hang Koerber but ignore the real villians.

Ryan Casperson | 7:18 a.m. Nov. 12, 2009

As much as Rick may be guilty, as I believe he his, he does have his rights under the Constitution. To those that were harmed by it, I hope he pays the price for what he's done, including paying all their money back. That being said, do not excuse your own accountability for doing business with him. What some of you are saying is that the victims of this case had no control over their emotions and/or lives. It is very sad to see but we're all accountable for either dealing with Rick or not. We pay our own consequences, and yes, that includes Rick Koerber. Oh, and by the way, put your own name on here if something actually happened to you. Don't hide as anonymous, it's ridiculous.

-Ryan.

Anonymous | 3:53 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009

JMT and Ryan, I could see through this ponzi scheme, but my relatives couldn't....they were hurt...I believe that Rick did this in another state before he was asked to leave...then he came here. My relatives are now in bondage to debt. I am upset about it. This is real, it happened, Rick made it happen, it hurt people very much...there is a great deal of sorrow and embarrassment for my relatives so I will remain anonymous in consideration for their feelings.

Thank you sir, ... | 5:04 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009

"... may I have another!" -- Rick K, in Bluffdale, very soon.

Over and over again.

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