Comments about ‘Protections for gays face tough fight at Utah Legislature’

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Published: Thursday, Nov. 12 2009 7:11 a.m. MST

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Anonymous

TO -- @Pagan (know it all) | 2:28 p.m

["No, of course it's not adult like to fire a gay person for being gay. But where is the intelligence in firing someone who is against gay marriage? Your arguments are all one sided"]

no one is ever fired for being against gay marriage. but there are harrassement laws that make it so you CANNOT make someone feel harrassed at work. they apply to EVERYONE. if you're mormon and every day a person walks by your desk and says your religion is a fairy tale and that you're crazy, that's harrassement and that person can be fired. same with someone telling a gay person they are sinning. companies would much rather fire the harrasser than get sued by the harrassed paerson. and trust me - harrassement lawsuits pay big bucks.

want to know the secret to preventing it? DON'T HARRASS PEOPLE AT WORK. people's private lives have NOTHING to do with work so keep it professional.

can't believe I actually have to explain this to people. how sad that you wouldn't already know this...

I am so excited!/Winky

I am so excited that we gays may finally get considerations that the rest of you have enjoyed for forever. I applaud the strong people in church and government that stand up for all the people and not just the majority. Who knows, maybe this will lead to more shoulder rubbing between all of us. I know that I would like that.

Pagan

'Who knows, maybe this will lead to more shoulder rubbing between all of us. I know that I would like that.' - 1:42 p.m.

I agree.

Anonymous

How this article should have started:

Now that the LDS Church has approved ordinances that make it illegal to fire or evict someone for being gay, will the Legislature and Gov. Gary Herbert follow suit?

Anonymous

@5:10
The way this article should have begun:

Discrimination in SLC has ended, don't get used to it, the state legislature will never allow it to stand....it is afterall still Utah.

JSM

The Church has once again done the right thing in supporting rights and showing compassion.

I wonder if there will be outrage and lawsuits etc, for LDS involvement.

I agree with those above that polygamists and others should also have these rights.


I disagree that all homosexuals are born that way, like eye color. There is no known gene forcing gayness. Race is genetic, twin studies show that many homosexuals, probably most, are not born that way. There is a potential, just as there is for alcoholism, terminal nicotine addiction (especially when those with the gene start young), and etc.

Many have realized they are free and have come back from homosexuality

Studies show exposure increases homosexuality. 60 years ago my mother personally knew of no one who left their wife and children because they thought they were gay and simply could not keep their marriage vows. Now it is everywhere.
If we teach people to avoid it when they are young we will help slow this flood destroying families.
I know the tears and ruined lives.

Gays should have the rights to live
and work peaceably, as everyone. However, mainstreaming and legally enforcing homsexuality are not the answer.

mark

JSM

Authorities agree sexual orientation IN EVERYONE is set by the age of three. It is inalterable, and those attemting to change people's orientation cause HARM.
My Mormon mother had never seen a Black person, until she left Utah on her honeymoon and traveled to the midwest(in 1945.) She probably knew no people who divorced....for any reason, either.
The highest divorces are caused by less educated young people marrying. States with more mature couples marrying with higher levels of education have the lowest divorce rates. THAT'S MA and they've had same sex marriage for 6 years, and their already low divorce rate DECREASED since marriage equality.
As someone who has attended 12 step groups, it is OFFENSIVE that you treat LGBTs in the catagory of alcoholism, overeating, drug addictions, sex addictions, co dependency. Being gay isn't an illness and needs NO CURE. Hatred and Ignorance needs the CURE.

Anonymous

attempting....typo in previous post

Pagan

'However, mainstreaming and legally enforcing homsexuality are not the answer.'

JSM, how would one legally enforce homosexuality?

This is to enforce none discriminate due to orientation.

No one is asking you, much less force you to be a homosexual.

Know the difference.

Abe Lincoln

to: I am so excited!/Winky

you mean special rights. gays have always had equal rights under the law. these rights that you want are brand new and will favor only homosexuals. there is not one right in the book that you do not already have, including marriage. it doesn't matter whether you are gay or not, you can marry. marriage is a man and a woman. if you fit that criteria, you can marry, regardless of your sexual orientation. housing,: you you can evict someone for being staright? yes, that is the law. workplace? you can fire someone for being staright as well. the question here is not equality, everyone is already treated equally under the law. you want new rights. the kind of society you want is one dedicated to nothing other then sexual conduct. sounds pretty perverted if you ask me. just keep it private, thats all people want. equal rights for all (and you gays alredy have that), special privilages for none (and no, straights don't have that).

Pagan

'gays have always had equal rights under the law. (sic)...everyone is already treated equally under the law.'

Wrong.

Abe, a gay person cannot join the military, donate blood, not to mention the over 1,000 rights that come with marriage.

A staright person can do all that openly.

How equal is that?

Also, this law WOULD protect someone from being fired for being straight.

However, I have yet to hear of one case in 30+ years. So, don't act like the victim here.

Previous 'definitions' of marriage was white on white and black on black.

America has since learned that everyone should be treated equally.

Being denied marriage and protections when discrimination is very much a fact of life is pathetic.

Gay marriage will not make you gay. These protections will not allow 'special' protections when gay men and women are fired every day. Don't Ask, Dont Tell is only one example. The SLC discrimination report in July '09 is another. How many do we need?

If you are against gay marriage, fine

don't have one.

Allow others the rights and privilages you covet.

JSM


Pagan, how are you?
Interesting that you’re here full time, like professional Mormon haters elsewhere, who can be much more open about their hatred.
Are you in Utah? Most organized, paid, fulltime activists seem to be from other States.

Anyway, I hope all is going well for you in your personal life (not in your attacks against LDS if you’re involved in that), and you’ve responded to my comments several times, possibly without reading them. I assume you know from past conversations that marriage legally and lawfully enforces relationships, and thus lifestyle.
I hope that clears things up.
We should all fully understand what marriage is, and why it is a crucial act of compassion to lovingly preserve traditional families, while supporting human rights.

And you’ve heard this before, most gays I talk to pass judgment on siblings, polygamists, etc, and feel they should not have the right to marry, but those 100 benefits (now 1000) are gay rights, not rights of everyone. Sad.

For visitation and taxes, attack hospitals and Obama, not Mormons, we can’t control them. The Church is already risking Tribune outrage and lawsuits for speaking out for your rights.

Still loveya.

JSM

And, to mark, above, there’s a lot of propaganda out. I’m not sure what you wanted to say, but I feel it’s wrong for men to leave their families for other men, or for any other reason. There is a recent flood of this, and if it is caused by a lack of education, then perhaps we should start educating our children at two.


And, are you the same mark who thinks the Church controls Utah and everything else, yet, at the same time, the Church only came out for gays under “duress” and pressure from legislators and gays? Hmmm.


Anyway, again, there is a dramatic increase in persons who grow up heterosexual, persue relationships, marry, have children, and ten years later, being subjected to propaganda, decide they are gay and abandon families. I think we should discourage this.

And, we are all sinners, I don't think it's right to assume you are better than smokers, or me, with my issues, etc. I think we should all admit our sinful natures, and this is a step to overcoming, as many have overcome homosexuality, which is also unhealthy, yet we are all God's children.

JSM


As Nevada thoughtfully explained, Christ's Church is progressive,changing from the days of Adam.
Some changes are PR. Paul gave us “when in Rome.”
Sometimes God has to open minds. Originally Levitical priesthood was racist, and familial. It was not given to white Europeans, nor was the gospel taught to anyone but Israelites. Peter had to be bonked before he would share.
Paul and Barnabas fought over changing doctrines and separated.
For years Church leaders debated eliminating the “eternal covenant” of circumcision, they waited for Peter’s revelation.
Polygamy waxed and waned.
After the restoration LDS were again progressive. Many churches wouldn’t let blacks through the door. JSmith gave blacks priesthood. Utah women were first to vote, first lawyers, Doctors, etc. LDS scriptures and most leaders opposed slavery, and taught that blacks are blessed with superior “wisdom,” and are equal, etc. LDS were attacked for their pro-African and Native American and women stances. Rules were made.
(And, yes, we know that quote you want to dig up.)

There were reasons for all this changing, but, while Abraham prayed for Sodom's rights, I can still think of no circumstance where homosexual marriage is necessary or good.

JSMagainsorry

Just want to again state that studies have shown that exposure to homosexuality, legally enforcing, and mainstreaming it does increase the numbers of people who think they are gay.
It has also been proven, through identical-twin studies and others, that in many cases, if not most, gays were not born that way. There is no known gene forcing homosexuality. There is a lot of propaganda trying to prove otherwise. I don't know why gays feel the need to do this.

Not long ago very few people left their wife and children because they thought they were born gay and simply could not keep their marriage vows. Now it is everywhere. You may argue that this is because society didn’t accept breaking homes back then; many feel this destruction of families should not be today, mainstreaming homosexuality isn’t the answer.

You are free practice it, there is no need to legally enforce it, and when you encourage and promote homosexuality you are hurting them, and all humanity. I have seen the tears, felt the anguish, and know the broken homes.

If one person returns to their family, it is worth it to get the truth out.

@JSMagainsorry |

please site the sources for all these claims. you claimt here are studies I would like to read them.

Pagan

'Pagan, how are you? Interesting that you’re here full time, like professional Mormon haters...'

JSM, darling, pumpkin, at what point did I mention the Mormon faith in my last post? LDS?

If your going to call someone a hater, it should be due to something they have done, not something you can only accuse them of.

Also, what studies are you quoting? I would like to know the names and who did them. I have mentioned my sources who support being gay is natrual and any attempts at re-orientation are harmful. The American Psychological Association, The American Medical Association & the CDC.

Also, I would be hard pressed to say that homosexuality has increased. Granted, there is more exposure, however as for actual numbers? That is fiction.

If a person is in the closet, are they straight?

No.

There is a need to protect minorities. SLC's own discrimination report gives us 300 exampels of why.

Oh, but JSM knows better.

Sin and moraility are fiction. No one is 'guilty' of being in a healthy, loving relationship.

If one family is denied due to ignorance, the lies are not worth it.

Loveya

Pagan

'please site the sources for all these claims. you claimt here are studies I would like to read them.' - 1:09 p.m.

There are none. It is fiction.

Sign of the Times

The fact that the LDS Church's opinion on the status of CIVIL marriage means anything at all, let alone that it influences millions of sheeple to act in bigoted ways, is downright scary!

This is only the beginning

Gays are happy, but this will not be sufficient.

They will use this to frame the Church as being hypocritical and inconsistent in its positions on marriage down the road so that it will sway public opinion in their favor.

I feel like we're empowering and emboldening some who will think they can flaunt the fact they're that way in the workplace and on private property.

What about the rights of those of us who don't need or want to know that? What if such people were working with children or people with special needs?

We need to SLOW DOWN and think this through a little bit--the radicals are going to want us to rush this through without thinking through the consequences carefully.

Just wait for CNN, NBC, CBS, and the other liberal news outlets to portray the Church as changing their position on marriage now for their support of this.

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