Deseret News | BYU soccer: Coverage of aggression begets gender issues debates

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BYU soccer: Coverage of aggression begets gender issues debates

Gonzogary | 11:44 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

So, is this going to help her social life?

Karen in Pa. | 11:57 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

So are you saying that women's soccor should evolve into this type of behavior so the masses can enjoy a "catfight?" Her behaviour and agression really surprised everyone in the room when watching the replay of her rough playing.... Dont want to see a bunch of prissys, but certainly do not want this type of play in women's soccor. They might as well be playing with the men then. There is a difference you know!

Junk | 12:06 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

I don't think I've ever seen guys pull each other's hair during soccer, and I've rarely, if ever, seen one punch another in the face and throat. I'm not sure what they're trying to imply about "girls playing more like boys," but it seems to say that boys have poor sportsmanship, which I take issue with.

Comments continue below

womem sports = boring | 12:07 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

I'm sorry but it is just excruciating to watch women sports. With possible the only exception of gymnastics, figure skating, and beach volleyball.

Other than those three, they are so slow and boring! Just look at the NBA and WNBA for an example. The league can't fill the stands for a WNBA finals even if they give tickets away!!

The other thing that gets me is, while in college and as a slightly athletic guy, I know I could have played any sport better than any "All American" female athlete. With the exception of gymnastics. Talk about equal rights, why should they get a freebie through school for doing something that isn't very impressive.

I think girls sports just need to go. But if we don't do that, we can at least use them for something useful...pure torture. Forget water boarding when you could just sit a terrorist down to watch 12 hours of softball. That would get them talking in no time. Or at least broadcast these games to prisons and make inmates be forced to watch. Now that my friends may be a fair trade off for the death penalty.

Joe | 12:50 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Why should they be "playing with the men?" Is it because men are morally inferior to women and therefore have poor sportsmanship like her? Is it because men pull hair and punch each other more during sports? She's a poor sport, a coward, and a bully, and that has no place in men's or women's sports, period.

Joe | 6:13 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

The BYU players need to held accountable as well. The two reactions by Elizabeth talked about the most - forearm and hairpull - were provoked by the BYU players. Not saying the haur pulling was ok, it was not and consequences (but not indefinate) are appropriate. As far as how men vs women might act, how do you think a male athlete would react if, during a game, an opponent pulled the players shorts up to his crotch. So, is BYU saying, that's ok, that's part of our game?

We Need the WNFL | 6:58 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Does this kind of thing happen alot? I wouldn't think so or we would have seen footage of it just like we have with this situation. So why all the fuss about trying to determine the "deeper meaning/purposes" concerning women sports? Some frustrated female soccor player loses her composure, acts like a 2 year old and we want to change the world of women sports????? The Alabama soccor player, sounds like she should start the WNFL if she wants to go knock someone senseless!

John P. | 8:55 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

@Joe (6:13 a.m.): I know how a male athlete would react because I played thousands of hours of basketball throughout high school and college. He wouldn't. What goes on in the paint while fighting for position on offense or when going for a rebound often involves people yanking on your shorts (up and down), jersey, holding, grabbing, kicking, kneeing (knees to the crotch from behind are fairly common), and sometimes worse. Most of this can happen in a game officiated by competant referees. All of it happens in endless hours of pick-up ball. How do you react? You don't. You play through it and make the opponent pay by scoring on him or snagging a rebound over him. The ability to keep one's head is supreme in sports, and this Lambert person (I hesitate to call her a woman or girl) needs to learn it. I would prefer she do it off the pitch so no one gets hurt.

Sooo.... | 9:01 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

for those of us who don't follow BYU sports in general and especially not women's soccer...what happend?

Re: womem sports = boring | 9:22 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Here you go again...with the "women sports has got to go" thing. I think it is hilarious that you refer to yourself as "a slighty athletic guy", hahaha. You were always picked last for teams and girls kicked your butt at sports! That is why you are constantly on these "women sports boards", bashing on women. If you really didn't care you certainly would be out "water boarding or going to an NBA game", instead of taking your anger out anonymously on these boards. Get over it or get help.

John | 9:29 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

FIFA rules address the behavior of the New Mexico player and it is called violent conduct. If it were to occur while competing for the ball it would be serious foul play. The sanction for violent conduct/serious foul play is to be ejected from the game. The fact that the conduct is addressed suggests that such things can and do occur with some frequency. I observed two such incidences in high school girls soccer games this season and I was only involved in 18 games. The scrutiny the New Mexico player received is disproportionate to her transgression while the fouls committed by the BYU players have gone unpunished. The referees decide what level of play is appropriate. In this instance, Joe Pimentel, the center, two assistant referees and a 4th official. My guess is that the play reflected in the short clip is reflective of the entire game. If he were a man, Joe Pimentel would come to the defense of the New Mexico player. He should not defend the violent retaliation but rather he should accept some of the responsibility himself and say the national scrutiny is disproportionate to her transgression.

Anonymous | 9:38 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

"Sooo..."

Go Youtube it!

RE:RE: Women sports =boring | 10:12 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Like men's sports are not boring. How bout MLB they can't even fill the stands unless its a world series. Womens softball is far more entertaining.
You guys crack me up you can't stand girls sports but you take the time to get on a site like this and write a book about it. And oh by the way I would love to see you compete agianst some of the female All Americans you say you can beat. You couldn't beat local female high school players. There are female soccer players in this state that would school you like a first grader. I'll put money on it big guy.

RE:Womens sports | 10:19 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Lets start out with the womens NCAA 100 and 200 yard dash,you would get smoked so bad it would be laughable, MR. slightly athletic guy. Then lets go to the womens mile and two mile, another joke. Then lets let you face the best womens softball pitchers in America. I would love to see that. Then lets let you compete against Lisa Leslie on the basketball cout. Ya your better Mr.slightly athletic in your mind your better. You have no clue what's out there waiting kick your tail.

Re:John | 11:54 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

You are one of the obtuse high school referees that say "play on" then do nothing about it. Thus encouraging or sanctioning the behaviour. If the center knew what was going on then he should step up and step down as a centre. You can try to justify poor officiating but yours or anyone else can not be hid behind flashing a yellow card or red card at coaches, which you would do much quicker than stop this behaviour it sounds. Stop officiating if you are one of those that "determine the level of play"

mj | 12:32 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

I think this is getting out of proportion...soccer games are always like that, there is always pulling hair, elbows, spiting, it is part of the game...this game the cameras got it, so what??? that is not gonna stop because a BYU soccer player got her hair pulled... if you watch professional soccer you see much worse things than that... give me a break

Infidelphia | 1:45 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

I actually read a forum post with someone trying to link Prop 8 to this! Like this was "payback" or something.

I am NOT LDS but respect the Mormon people and condemn this action. Can you imagine if the LDS girl did this to the SDSU kid. Oh my goodness would the firestorm come down. Amazing the media spin on this. "Ohhhhh it's just kids being kids....come onnnnn and suck it up" If the other way around, "Religious fanatic unleashes jihad on poor college student just trying to have some fun"

Re: mj | 1:56 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

You are probably one of the coaches that teaches young players "if you don't they will" Yet when it happens to your player you wig out. Where is the line of appropriateness then? You know murder happens every day "it's part of life" is as big a fallecy argument as yours. Think straight play straight

Knowwhat | 3:14 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

To: RE:Women sports. I think you will find that if you compare the times of the NCAA D1 100 meters of womens you get the following results, This year the fastest time was 11.2 seconds, if you looked up the boys high school track and field results and took how many boys in high school ran faster that the women who won in college there is a good chance the women would not even place. I know it is painful but men and women are not built the same and somethings women can do better than men but most things athletic men are better than women. Sorry, physiology 101.

Ernest T. Bass | 3:29 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

I TIVO'ed this and have watched it almost as much as I have watched Baywatch Nights.

@women sports = boring | 5:17 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Ha HA. I got great laugh out of your post. A little extreme to relate softball to waterboarding but its still funny. I could watch 12 hours of college football during a Saturday and barely notice but after 12 minutes of softball or girls basketball, I am dying!!

Joe | 6:06 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

John P - thanks for your comments; have to agree with what you said at the end - keeping your head is a big part of the game. One more question. Read alot of comments (not all here) and several people said she should be banned. Are those people just as "up in arms" over the D-1 football player who punched another player and now is being allowed to play again this year? If not, why?(Thought that's what I heard anyway - sorry if I got that wrong).

re: @women sports=boring | 6:12 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Just wondering if you are so BORED of women's sports why are you spending all day keeping up with them on the DNews boards? Usually when I am bored with something I don't spend my time obsessing over it. MOVE ON!!

Dispicable | 9:41 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

UNM's Lambert should be punished by either suspension of several games orkicked out for the season. We see similar actions in the NBA and they are fined and suspended. The fact that certain folks are spinning this into lame banter is idiodic. The fact of the matter is that there should be punishment as it taints the sport and the conference, the team and the university of NM.

Soooo | 9:42 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

What actions have been taken by the league and the universities?

RE;Knowwhat | 9:49 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Read the blogs, the guy was saying he was barely an athlete and could compete with any female NCAA All American.Thanks for the lesson on who runs faster men or women but that was not the point at all. I would love to see this barely an athlete run a 11.2 hundred meters. Your logic doesn't match the argument,I would suggest an English 101 class in comprehension..

Retaliation...??? | 7:17 a.m. Nov. 12, 2009

Re: John- you saw the BYU player elbow the UNM player. What was not shown was the contact which preceded the footage in question. We are not shown who actually "started" this exchange of inappropriate contact in the soccer match. Referees are there to determine when enough is enough. They are there to determine when a player has crossed the line so to speak. Just watch most basketball games before you jump to conclusions and determine "guilt". Just try to actually be the referee in contests where such contact is actually allowed. (football, rugby, and hockey come to mind). Good luck making players, coaches, and fans happy. One of the toughest calls for a basketball referee is the question of "charge or block". So we are in no position to judge unless we are shown much more footage. BTW, players are usually told by coaches to never retaliate in flagrant fashion since the referee almost never sees the "initial" elbow or push and he who retaliates almost always gets the whistle.

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