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Comments about ‘Mormon church supports Salt Lake City's protections for gay rights’

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Published: Wednesday, Nov. 11 2009 12:00 a.m. MST

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Societal impact > you understand

Pagan,

Equality isn't about making unequal actions equal to each other. Marriage and the "other" aren't equal to each other.

Why again do gays need to "broaden the term" of marriage? Why isn't the term Civil Union good enough? Or Gay Union? etc. etc.?

If homosexual relations are just as good as marriage then can't those unions stand alone on their own merits with their own name and own legislation? You treat yourselves like second class citizens.

When women fought for their rights we didn't just start calling them men. You don't "broaden" the definition of words in the law you "broaden" the law. Would it have changed me as a man if we changed the term to include females? No! But not making an important distinction in the uniqueness of people and relationships diminishes from the use of those terms. It confuses and distorts reality for all.

You seriously can't see how "broadening a term" not only changes the meaning but makes a word something that it is not. It is definitely damaging. Hot is not cold. Good is not evil. Light is not dark. Gay marriage is not marriage.

Person with an English degree

Marriage whether it is in the temple or civilly is still a union between a man and a woman. The basic definition is not undermined in that sense. Gay marriage if defined correctly involves a gay person forming a union with a person of the opposite sex if you want to get technical about the meaning of words.

gay = same sex attraction person
marriage = union of a man and a woman

gay marriage, therefore must equal a person attracted to the same sex having a wedding with someone of the opposite sex.

Usage dictates a different but wholly contradictory meaning by standards of English Language practice. In other words the term gay marriage doesn't make any sense.

mark

At societal Impact

Imagine if Catholic and Protestant churches got tax exemptions from the government, and the government called not taxing Mormon church CHARITY, and only covered most of the tax exemptions the other religions received.

What would Mormon's response be? Would equal coverage be enough or would you also insist your church's exemptions not be called charity?

mark

@Person with English degree

Get a law degree and some geography lessons too.
MA IA, VT, CT, and NH

Have marriages, not gay marriage and straight marriage....just MARRIAGE.

Yes I can...Can you follow law?

3:56,

Yes, I can separate my faith from my countries laws. I think what the LDS church did in this instance is a perfect example of that. Marriage's definition can be protected while upholding everyone's Civil Rights.

So my country can protect civil rights without changing the definition of marriage, too. In fact, marriage upheld as between a man and a woman has not discriminated against civil rights since the countries founding of this great nation's laws. So the law and my belief haven't differed much for more than 200 years, in this regard. Can you separate your beliefs from your arguments about law?

Vince

Person with an English degree | 4:32 p.m. Nov. 13, 2009

Dictionaries extend the definition of marriage to include same-sex marriage also (where it is legal, of course).

Those would be civil and some religious marriages. The churches performing religious marriages do so on their own accord, not because anyone is suing them.

Temple marriages, since you mentioned it is much more limited to just than a man and a woman and much more limited than a religious marriage. They both need to be people of good-standing in the church and they need to receive a recommend.

mark

@Vince
Temple marriages can also be between a wife in good standing and her deceased husband who never went to ANYTHING concerning the Church....that's what my grandmother did a year after she was widowed

Steve Smith

I am neither gay nor Mormon. As an impartial observer, I have to say I don't see a lot of Christian tolerance on display here.

RE:Christa Jeanne

You state: "Your race is defined by what you ARE - how you're born. There's nothing you can do to change that."

It is interesting that you feel that homosexuality is a choice, when even the LDS church no longer believes this.

Have you noticed that the Church no longer says that same-sex attraction is a sin? Now the official stance is that only acting upon those attractions are a sin.

Why the change? Years ago, the BYU Psychology Department/Clinic-sponsored research studies that included electric-shock therapy experiments to try to cure homosexuality. The studies examined aspects of homosexuality, its origins, and its modifiability.

The results of these studies were communicated to Salt Lake and the Brethren, and it is because the results indicated that homosexuality may be inborn and is extremely resistant to the most powerful forms of electro- and chemical- therapies that the Brethren have taken the official stand they have taken. Officially, same sex attraction is not a sin—only homosexual behavior is now considered a sin in the Church.

ron carter

Everyone needs shelter food and love. I stand firm in pro creation, for without it all would surley be lost. The world may repeat/feel or may not repeat/feel what I say here. However no one will circumvent the lord now or ever. May God Bless all.
Our Father in Heaven created us, we need to perfect ourselves in which we are individually reasonable for.

Ron Folsom California,

GOD be with YOU!!!
CTR

Ron Carter

I agree in whole with the decision of the LDS chruch. I am a landlord and agree.

Ron Folsom CA

Millennial Mormon

See my post on Millennial Mormonism Today. I fully support this step towards tolerance and peace. We as Mormons would want to be treated in a kind and tolerant way and we should do the same with the LGBT community. It is the Christ-like thing to do. Let's not be Nicodemus Mormons!

My opinon

I believe that this decision by the LDS church makes their stand even stronger, not weaker. It makes it clear what it is all about. We are against any change in the traditional family. Even though we do not agree with the gay position, we must treat all people with respect. Even though their actions are considered to be very wrong, we can't change them and we must treat them with respect. This is not softening the church's stand. This is clarifying it. The church will never change it's position on marriage. Of this I am 100% sure.
I still would never allow one of them to teach their ways to my children - or to me.

Anonymous

This is such a public relations game the Church is playing! The legislation excludes the Church! It does not impact them at all! So they have nothing to lose by endorsing this. Pathetic!

John Pack Lambert

To the 4:53 commentator,
The legislation excludes ALL religious organizations, it does not "exclude the Church" per se. It excludes Muslims, every Christian denomination, Jews (especially Orthodox Jews who are about the only ones who would use it) and so on. Based on court rulings it also excludes privvate religious schools and other para-church organizations that have a religious focus but are not connected with a particular religion.
However, I am not sure all of the Church's operations are excluded. Many of the operations controlled by Deseret Management Corporation might fall under these rules. I am not sure though, since I have not read the actual ordiance.

John Pack Lambert

Reading the law, Deseret Book and all other properties fully owned by Deseret Management would be exempted. If a Church owns 60% stock in a car wash it would not be exempted. My interpretation of religious to include schools with a religious mission without affiliation with a particular Church would hold up in light of various court rulings on the term. Charitable and non-profit organizations are exempted from the housing rule, as are all Public and Private dormitories of public and private educational institutions.
The employment law also exempts those with fewer than 15 employees and "expressive associations". The 4 unt exemption is slightly confusing, expecially the long provisions on use of agents in selling. Since not many people have griped "I don't want to sell my home to so and so" just about renting it, the fact of the matter is as long as your basement is no more than three units don't worry. On the other hand if you rent your attic, half the room on your main floor, and two units in the basement, you might be considered since you live in a 5th unit in your house.

This is so sad

Your church made a statement that they stand behind Salt Lake City;s new ordinance to protect the housing and employment rights of all citizen's, and you are upset?!? May I suggest you pray for a more loving attitude towards all of your brothers and sisters. Please pray to accept what your leaders have proclaimed here, or maybe you really don't believe what you confess.

Confused in Sandy

After the victory we had in with Prop 8 this is just sad and big step back. I cannot believe what the church leadership has done with this. Seems like a big step back after a solid victory on California. I am confused as to what is expected of me.

David Cutts

It's hard to read some of the comments here and not conclude that the gays were right about the motivations behind Prop 8. If you think Prop 8 was a victory and this is a step back, then clearly Prop 8 was about hating gays, not about protecting mariage.

Justan

I am a gay man living in Utah County. I have lived in SLC. I was raised LDS, and recently resigned from the Church. However, I hold no hard feelings toward my fellow LDS brothers and sisters. At one point, I had much bitterness because of the actions of a few LDS people. I understand where LDS people can feel bitterness to those few gay people who constantly attack the Church. I have been to many protests, but never because I hate the Church, only upset, because I stand for my rights. No matter the intentions of the Church on backing this ordinance, (I'm sure they're good) I am happy, and grateful for their support. Wherever I or (we, the GLBT comm.) can gain support, is progress. I am so thankful for all of you here who support my basic human rights, and still love your Church. This is what we need, more love and acceptance on both sides, and less hate. I am very happy and thankful for the support we are getting from those of you who love unconditionally. I will always do my best to respect you as well.

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