Comments about ‘Mormon church supports Salt Lake City's protections for gay rights’

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Published: Wednesday, Nov. 11 2009 12:00 a.m. MST

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To the couple of people who tried to help me understand. I am still confused by the church's position here. If we are encouraged to not support legislation which goes against God's commandments, which is why legislation allowing same gender marriage is not supported, its no stretch whatsoever in my mind that supporting legislation which provides protections to gay to co-habitate is not much different than supporting gay marriage. Come on ..... are we defining "marriage" so narrowly that all it means to us is the certificate that a couple receives when they are married? Or are we going to define marriage in the spirit in which the word is intended. I am NOT anti-gay; I am just trying to understand how the church can support this kind of legislation. This just doesn't make any sense to me at all ... hopefully the GA's will explain the distinction one of these days.

hey Knock Knock.... |

How many Baptists have married in the temple? None, but they are a protected group.

How many Mormons (another protected group) have had their marriage in a Cathedral? None. Catholics are protected in their right to only marry catholics in their churches.

Why do you think this will change?

How many gays have even asked to be married in the Boston temple? None. Why would they? Alberta temple? None. Both of those areas have gay marriage for over 5 years,

Why do you think this will change?

Aren't you fear mongering?

@LDS In Washington

"I was disappointed in the church when it spent so much effort on Prop 8 and ignored an opportunity to oppose Physician Assisted Suicide in this state... I thought standing against killing yourself was a greater moral imperative."


This is a very interesting thing to say, "LDS-In-Washington." I would suggest, however, that when it comes to choosing between life as a homosexual, and death by suicide, the Church and many LDS families would prefer the suicide. Take, for instance, what may be the highest-profile gay Mormon suicide in recent years: Stuart Matis.

In the book "In Quiet Desperation," written in part by his parents, they say: "Although losing our son was difficult, it has been comforting to know that he was faithful to his temple covenants," and later, "Stuart... continues to be a schoolmaster for us. How grateful we are for his integrity and courage to remain faithful!"

Is suicide not a violation of temple covenants? Is self-murder an example of integrity, courage, and remaining faithful? I can't judge Stuart, but these comments suggest that (for some LDS) it is better to be dead than gay! Is killing yourself REALLY the lesser sin?


Knock, knock...

Whose there?

A couple of gay guys wanting to get married in city hall!

But...my morals!

To Molli

"are we defining "marriage" so narrowly that all it means to us is the certificate that a couple receives when they are married?"

In a word, Yes.

We cannot legislate laws banning the practice of this sin in this country. It was ruled unconstitutional.

We are defending the defination of marriage to mean the legal union of one man and one woman.

John Pack Lambert

I am not a liar. Quit using my name and smearing my reputation. I reiterate that the Deseret News needs to have contributors log in and validate thier identity. This would stop the ten some post that were attributed to may name in an attempt to discredit myself and the LDS Church.


Molli:::The churcg is and always will be against gay marriage. They however are not against gays having a job and a place to live.

Just Sayin'

JPL, don't try so hard to be a defender of the faith. If it it true then people will realize it. The vast vast majority of people don't believe the church has any truth and you make it even harder.

TO -- Molli | 3:35 p.m

["are we defining "marriage" so narrowly that all it means to us is the certificate that a couple receives when they are married"]

yes. that's all this is about. Gays just want the certificate so they can have the same rights as you. it's not a big deal - i don't know why people are making it one..


So sad that we are so worried about pleasing man that we have forget why we are even here. The primary goal in life must be to fear God and keep his commandments. Galatians 5:16 say's so I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. In today's society this is so hard for us to follow but it is God's word do we doubt Him or what he say's do we really think we know more or that this was just back in the day I pray for our Country and our children that have to come against all the sinful things this world has to offer.. All I can do is please my Lord and Savior help us today to remember your truths.....

John Pack Lambert

No up until the false apology post all the posts had been made by me.
I think I may have gone a bit over the top in one of them, in attacking those who oppose fair housing legislation, but I should have explained it more fully, and then my position would have worked better.
If these people are, as many of them actually are, those who so loadly proclaimed they followed the Prophet on Prop 8 than why did they not believe the Church when it said it did not oppose fair housing laws?
If you agree with Elder Oaks that people should not be fired for donating to a political campaign, than why should they be fired for sexual activity not on the job?
I clearly stand by my opinions about the Massachusetts issue. The law is a teacher, and marriage is not merrly allowing but proactively granting government recognition.


I've tried 4 times now to post my response to the person who said my accusations of bigotry were dangerously close to 'it's sister hypocrisy'. I don't know, maybe I should have began my post with a knock-knock joke.
In my lost post I copy/pasted every ugly anti-gay slur posted here against the proposed legislation. Guess it was too mind-blowing to package it all together in one post.
(Also, there's been plenty of nasty comments since my original post.)

Show your true colors people.


This law supports the gay movement and I am against this movement. There is no such thing as an unaccountable act. What do two gay people see in it? 1+1=0? The flaw in their argument is the FALL of man! Darwin missed it, Korihor missed it and so do the people of this time. Man believes that things were always how they are now. This is the problem with radiometric dating, evolution and uniformitarianism.


'This law supports the gay movement and I am against this movement.' - shocked.

Why? No one is against your movement.

@ Different Light

How exactly do they require that gay bishops remain faithful to their wives?

Have you heard of closet behavior and denial?

John Pack Lambert

The 4:17 post is a false post. It was not made by the same person who made the majority of John Pack Lambert posts.
Also, since one of my previous posts was removed, the 8:54AM (which reflects when it was processed, not when I sent it in, what late in the evening, about 11:00 my time, or 9:00 Utah time) apology for its shrillness will not make full sense, because the original post no longer can be found.
Sufficite it to say I have realized that even people who seem set in the ways of hate can be talked to and reasoned with, even though it often is more easy to just attack them.

to -- amy | 7:31 p.m

["So sad that we are so worried about pleasing man that we have forget why we are even here. The primary goal in life must be to fear God and keep his commandments"]

and honestly, amy, you scare me talking like that. You think you are on earth to fear for your whole life? That's why man created gods like Zeus in the first place - to make you live in fear. I'll never understand how anyone can worship someone or something that they live in fear of. It makes absolutely no sense. I guess it's like kidnap victims sticking up for their abductor after a certain amopunt of time - but for you it boils down to your upbringing.

I feel bad for you, living in fear. just don't force it onto others.

John Pack Lambert

Now I really wonder why I do not double read. In my last post I somehow thought the post I was speaking of was 8:54 AM, but I looked again, and it is PM, so that is when I wrote it.
I have some very specific questions on the current law.
Can you refuse to rent to a man and a woman if they are not married to each other? Can you refuse to rent to any married couples at all? Can you make having sex in an apartment grounds for kicking a tenant out? Can you specify non-marital sex, our would you have to ban any sex at all?

re -- John Pack Lambert | 8:54

["The law is a teacher, and marriage is not merrly allowing but proactively granting government recognition"]

yeah John - you're right. it's like a drivers license... kids just can't wait to sign up and get their certificate...

where do you get these bizarre ideas? just because something is allowed doesn't mean people that aren't inclined to use it will suddenly decide they want to. you REALLY think non-gay people are going to marry same sex simply because it is allowed?

if you would give it ANY thought whatsoever, you would realize that all these laws and changes for gays is simply so gays - real gay people - can come out of the closet and stop hiding from society. NO ONE that is NOT gay is going to say they are simply due to peer pressure... NO ONE IS GAY ON PURPOSE!! why is that so hard for you to understand.

if there were purple people, and no one liked them, so they hid their color with makeup so they could fit in, always wondering who was judging them - and then we made laws so they couldn't be picked on - wouldn't that be a good_thing?


i doubt very much that there are any gay bishops in the church

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