Comments about ‘Mormon church supports Salt Lake City's protections for gay rights’

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Published: Wednesday, Nov. 11 2009 12:00 a.m. MST

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John Pack Lambert

To the 2:18 commentator,
You need to go watch the NPR piece where they interview a middle schol teacher in Massachusetts who explains because same-sex marriage is recognized in Massachusetts she feels able to explain lesbian sex in full detail.
That said, the "out-of-state" Mormons gripe is a lie. The Letter was read only in sacrament meetings in California. It was the anti-8 people who publicized it nation wide before it was even read.
This also cuts to why the add showing the missionary rampage was a total lie. Missionaries do not in any way get involved in political issues. It was lay members not missionaries involved. There is a reason why on the Church website they showed a talk between Elder Bednar and some young-adults about these issues, Elder Bednar was BORN in California.
The fireside, with such Californias as Elder Cook, was broadcast to California and also to locations where many Californians were temporarily attending school. You may disagree with people away at school still voting at home, but until California bans their vote they are not "out-of-state" interlopers.

Anonymous

John Pack Lambert | 11:25 a.m. Nov. 12, 2009
To the 9:02 commentator,
Just keep this action in reserve. The next time someone complains about the Church publicly supporting man/woman marriage and says it violates "the seperation of Church and State" ask why the Church's actions in SLC were not comdemned for the same reason.


Go look at the SL Tribune. Plenty of condemnation for the church's actions there.

Anonymous


John Pack Lambert | 12:16 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
To the 11:55 commentator,
12 states is not "most other states". There are 48 states that lack a state-wide ENDA.
Beyond this, many ENDAs lack the clear excemptions for religious groups that are so key to preserving religious freedom.


12+48 = 60, John.

How about 38 States?

Dear John

"You need to go watch the NPR piece where they interview a middle schol teacher in Massachusetts who explains because same-sex marriage is recognized in Massachusetts she feels able to explain lesbian sex in full detail."

Was that her opinion or the school boards? She could get in trouble if she does that without the school boards approval.

She, of course, can voice her opinion.

Oh John...

"This also cuts to why the add showing the missionary rampage was a total lie. Missionaries do not in any way get involved in political issues. It was lay members not missionaries involved."

It was a PARABLE, John. You remember what a parable is, don't you? It is when you tell a story (that didn't really happen) to prove a point.

The missionaries symbolized the LDS church. The ripping apart of the marriage license represented how the gays felt about the church's involvement in Prop 8.


Really, a lie?

John Pack Lambert

To the 5:12 commentator,
Religious organizations are ONLY exempted from the religious component of non-discrimination in Title 7. For people who qualify as "pastors" (including teachers whose main subject is religion) the pastors exemption makes all rules unapplicable, but for positions like janitor the firing must be based on religion. However, this is how the group interprets religion. The classic case was the 1987 upholding of the Church firing a janitor at the Deseret Gym for failure to hold a current temple reccomend, which was a condition of his employment.
In another case a Christian school did not ask an employees religion before highering them, but their firing an employee for wearing an Islamic head scarf was upheld on the grounds that they could regulate the religious behavior of their employees at school.
So probably religious groups could win an exemption to this law if it were not written there, but we should seek laws that incorporate the principals of religious freedom.

Re: Pagan

Being a jerk and a bigot is a right. We live in a free country that allows people to be whatever they want, thank Heaven as that is the very basis of the argument against discrimination. But the constitution also allows for the free exercise of religion, conscience, business, association, speech, etc. as long as it does not interfere with another person's right to the same pursuit. Public laws and services must be non-discriminatory as they are shared by the group. But private business, associations, dwellings, etc.?

I don't believe this is a religious issue, it is a social policy issue that has been voted on by the representatives of SLC. They chose, through their representatives, to make these laws and they have that right and will live with the consequences.

My gripe is with more government intrusion--I want government out of my private life, period. (And I agree that marriage should be something done in churches, and civil unions should be the only social policy offered by government to cohabitants if at all.)

It is not about right or left, it is about protecting individual freedom from either one in the majority.

John Pack Lambert

To the 1:00 commentator,
You are right, I did some interesting math. However, my point that 12 is not EVEN CLOSE to a majority still stands.

John Pack Lambert

To the 1:08 commentator,
When the Church proactively makes every policy possible to keep missionaries from in any way participating in political action, and add is not a parable, it is a lie.

Anonymous

John Pack Lambert | 1:25 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
To the 1:00 commentator,
"You are right, I did some interesting math. However, my point that 12 is not EVEN CLOSE to a majority still stands."

----------

20 years ago, it was 0%. Now it's 24%. Given more time, I think you will be surprised at how quickly this changes.

Um, gays, please explain...

If you as gays say that gay marriage is a purely RELIGIOUS thing and start bashing religions, how is it that the very ATHEIST People's Republic of China does not allows "civil unions" of homosexuals or "marriage" between homosexuals.

Please explain the world's abhorrence of homosexual acts and marriage. It is because it is wrong, unnatural and quite frankly disgusts the majority of those in the world.

Truth is Eternal

I always find it interesting how when someone is living in sin, and the scriptures clearly state it is a sin, and someone points it out as such, he is immediately labeled a bigot, judgemental, uncompassionate, and old fashioned. What's more, because more and more people are living the sin, they rationalize that it's no longer a sin? Clearly, we are living in a time when "evil is good and good is evil" in the eyes of many people.

In truth however, nothing has changed. The Savior still loves them, but the guilt remains and it will always be there until such time as the sin is fully repented of.

God is unchangeable. If he were, he would cease to be God. As compassionate and loving as he is, He does not change his position on sin simply because more and more people engage in that sin. And because He is an eternal and loving God, his love is never diminished when we choose not to follow Him.
As in the case of all sin, this too can be overcome and repented of. It may take a lifetime of endurance and faith, but it can be done.

Pagan

'But the constitution also allows for the free exercise of religion, conscience, business, association, speech, etc. as long as it does not interfere with another person's right to the same pursuit.' - 1:20 p.m.

So, firing a gay person does not interfere with that person's ability to do business? Association? Speech?

You KNOW what these mean, right?

'My gripe is with more government intrusion--I want government out of my private life, period.'

But it's ok in mine.

Thanks for showing why the rules should only apply to you and not the gay community.

You help make the case why these laws are needed.

Anonymous

To UM,

Bigotry is irrational. No explanation is possible or required. Bigots, like yourself, do not live in a real world.

Anonymous

John Pack Lambert | 1:46 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009
To the 1:08 commentator,
When the Church proactively makes every policy possible to keep missionaries from in any way participating in political action, and add is not a parable, it is a lie.

It was SYMBOLISM, John. If you ask people in CA who those young men are in white shirts and suit pants, who do you think they say? Mormons. They were using that image to invoke that thought process so that the viewers would think, "Mormons" - not missionaries.

Not a lie, just a parable.


Accept it.

To truth is eternal

"I always find it interesting how when someone is living in sin, and the scriptures clearly state it is a sin, and someone points it out as such, he is immediately labeled a bigot, judgemental, uncompassionate, and old fashioned. What's more, because more and more people are living the sin, they rationalize that it's no longer a sin? Clearly, we are living in a time when "evil is good and good is evil" in the eyes of many people."


You can believe that it is a sin. You can tell anyone you want to that they are sinning.

BUT we are talking about the law - US secular law that does not favor any belief. Everyone (not just those that you deem righteous) is equal under the law. The 14th amendment guarentees that.

Can you see the difference?

re China

A 2008 survey by sexologist Li Yinhe shows a mixed picture of public attitudes towards gays and lesbians in China. 91% of respondents said they agreed with homosexuals having equal employment rights, while over 80% of respondents agreed that heterosexuals and homosexuals were "equal individuals". On the other hand, a slight majority disagreed with the proposition that an openly-gay person should be a school teacher, and 40% of respondents said that homosexuality was "completely wrong".


Gay marriage legslation has been brought before their National Peoples Congress since 2001. Nothing has passed yet.


In the early dynasties, homosexuality was not viewed as abnormal and celebrated in poetry and art. The devastating event for Chinese homosexuals was, ironically, the enlightenment that came after the Self-Strengthening Movement, when homophobia was imported to China along with Western science and philosophy.

mark

MN my home state had ENDA statewide and was overturned.
I was mistaken saying "most" states, but the 12 states protect 40% of Americans, and 100 Cities have ENDAs too.

mark

Here's a good rule of thumb
If you would need to rent an apartment to a Catholic or Baptist, or hire a Catholic or a Baptist...then you will now have to allow a LGBT person to live there, or work there.

John Pack Lambert

To the 1:59 commentator,
In case you missed it, I support the law as passed by Salt Lake City.
My point was that the claim that MOST states other than Utah have such ordinances is FALSE.

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